Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.9.9] [Innoxia]

[tehlemon]

Hm. Well, if i was in her shoes i'd want for this job to last forever too.
But more importantly, if all those people continue to pay her then that means they must see something in her work?
They must think that it is worth the money?
Otherwise, why would they pay?

You're ascribing a lot of meaning to something that likely doesn't have that much meaning. People pay for stupid shit all the time. Doubly so with cheap subscription services that are easy to forget about. That's the main reason everyone's going subs for everything these days.

Some of those people have given Inno $1000+ for this game. How many of them would buy the game if they had to actually pay that in a single payment?

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

You're ascribing a lot of meaning to something that likely doesn't have that much meaning. People pay for stupid shit all the time. Doubly so with cheap subscription services that are easy to forget about. That's the main reason everyone's going subs for everything these days.

Some of those people have given Inno $1000+ for this game. How many of them would buy the game if they had to actually pay that in a single payment?

Me giving it a lot of meaning, or you giving it far less than it deserves?
People who worked for their money will not just go and throw that money at the wind.
So, they must like what they get..

 

[Teize]

Hm. Well, if i was in her shoes i'd want for this job to last forever too.
But more importantly, if all those people continue to pay her then that means they must see something in her work?
They must think that it is worth the money?
Otherwise, why would they pay?

'Cuz people are either dumb, horny or probably have money to waste, imo. I completely respect anyone that hustles and has a successful OnlyFans but I also logically don't know how people pay for it, porn is largely free, so why would you pay $10+ just to see a boob or a foot and etc. I think the same principle applies to Lilith's Throne, it's a decent game with decent customisation and I'm sure people are more than happy to give small increments of money as support.

I wouldn't but if other people want to, that's on them. I don't think it is necessarily representative of the quality of her work either, people buy stupid shit all the time because they think 'it's only a couple bucks' and etc.

 

[tehlemon]

Me giving it a lot of meaning, or you giving it far less than it deserves?
People who worked for their money will not just go and throw that money at the wind.
So, they must like what they get..

People do that all the time with subscription services lol

And like Teize said, how much money you make is not at all representative with the best quality product. If you actually believe that, you're either incredibly young, or completely oblivious. This is doubly so when your entire industry works off initial popularity.

 

[GuiltyElation]

Some of those people have given Inno $1000+ for this game. How many of them would buy the game if they had to actually pay that in a single payment?

Honestly that's one thing I really hate about the Patreon/Subscribestar model used for Western titles, it incentivizes devs to drag out development and be as lazy as possible, while people forget how much money they've actually paid for these sparse updates ($10 a month slips by unnoticed, but adds up quickly).

It's not like the traditional "pay $x for the game" model doesn't work; despite being easily pirateable, Shimogod has made almost half a million USD from Celesphonia alone AFTER DlSite's cut, for example. (47k copies sold, 1870 Yen of which the dev gets ~1100JPY=10USD). Sure, I'm using one of the most popular games/successful devs as an example, but taking a look at the numbers on DlSite and it becomes apparent pretty quickly that Inno's income isn't that ludicrous.

The dream solution would be for Steam to be a more practical way of distributing NSFW games, but we all know that's not happening anytime soon

 

[Sasquatch421]

Hm. Well, if i was in her shoes i'd want for this job to last forever too.
But more importantly, if all those people continue to pay her then that means they must see something in her work?
They must think that it is worth the money?
Otherwise, why would they pay?

High hopes? How much slower would things go if Inno ended up needing to get another source of income if her sub nosedived?

Honestly I do give money to a couple of people, and one is a slower dev.... Well a couple are slower developers....

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

The dream solution would be for Steam to be a more practical way of distributing NSFW games, but we all know that's not happening anytime soon

Yeah, imagine Gabe and his gang actually moving their lard for a change for anything that doesn't easily land billions in their lap.

 

[SheepPun]

I only really watch the game from a distance, the sort of 'check in every couple months to see if an update came out then forget about it' but god damn, seeing Inno finally openly admit she's falling victim to the trap of feature creep and seems to have have no intention of trying to reign herself in made a part of me shrivel up and die.

It's understandable because it's really easy to do this, creator or not. But I remember in the ~before times~ when comments were allowed on her blog posts some of the more reasonable critical comments warned her of this. Then again, this is the internet so the reasonable comments got drowned out by squabbles in the comment sections so /shrugs

 

[Carl0sDanger]

... it incentivizes devs to drag out development and be as lazy as possible ...

While I would agree with this in the case of a dev who was working on a game with a projected "final" version (ie. once it's done, the money stops), that's not the stated development model of this game. The idea with this game is allegedly to get to v 1.0 (where the main quest is completed) and then to add side content indefinitely. Hard Times in Hornstown (despite being a very different game in many respects) is a good example of this model: there's a core story to play through, but heaps of optional side content with more being added regularly.

Most importantly, the optional side content is voted on by supporters (ie. not rando Discord members), giving a tangible benefit for supporting the game.

My point is that the subscription model and development roadmap actually incentivise Inno finishing a playable main quest. We have to look elsewhere to explain the lack of progress.

 

[Sarkath]

Daaaamn, that's $82,000 a year. Inno is fuckin' loaded, dude, and she doesn't even work most of the time.

Heh. For the sake of your sanity, never ever check out Fek's Patreon (the dev of Rack 2).

 

[Keldin]

those reviews doe. I've seen Amazon products with less fake reviews. Also we need a thread or something that is a collected list of Devs that are either scams, or more in this case just really unreliable.

Anyways I've seen mentions of different forks and such done by modders, anyone know if any of those actually went anywhere?

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

we need a thread or something that is a collected list of Devs that are either scams, or more in this case just really unreliable.

Fantastic idea.
But that will require some maintenance and shit, of the constant type.
I doubt just anyone will want that kind of pain in the ass on their plate.
Not to mention that it'll have to be someone trustworthy.

 

[BaloneyAmone]

those reviews doe. I've seen Amazon products with less fake reviews. Also we need a thread or something that is a collected list of Devs that are either scams, or more in this case just really unreliable.

I wouldn't be for this idea. That thread would devolve into a KiwiFarms hateboner circlejerk in record time, however deserved any shunned names on the list, and more than likely end up poisoning the whole forum in the process.
It's best to leave any dev-bashing to the threads of their games.

 

[alfabb]

those reviews doe. I've seen Amazon products with less fake reviews. Also we need a thread or something that is a collected list of Devs that are either scams, or more in this case just really unreliable.

Anyways I've seen mentions of different forks and such done by modders, anyone know if any of those actually went anywhere?

To be honest, without knowing the story (and wo has the patience to read through 500 pages... but the release date might be a big hint) i would rate it "5/5 keep up the good work" myself.

 

[tehlemon]

To be honest, without knowing the story (and wo has the patience to read through 500 pages... but the release date might be a big hint) i would rate it "5/5 keep up the good work" myself.

This right here is why she disabled, and keeps disabled, the comments on the blog.

Ignorance is bliss and makes you want to give her money.

 

[Keldin]

I wouldn't be for this idea. That thread would devolve into a KiwiFarms hateboner circlejerk in record time, however deserved any shunned names on the list, and more than likely end up poisoning the whole forum in the process.
It's best to leave any dev-bashing to the threads of their games.

Point. There's also a number of other alternatives, just having a Wiki detailing history of projects would help, and not just for minimizing shitting on devs but also for Devs and projects that go above and beyond. Karryn's Prison, Roundscape Adorevia, Caliross to name a few.

Buuut as mentioned that and others all require effort most won't bother or care enough about to do.

Also I feel that I should point out that there isn't much to poison on this site. It's pretty much Youtube Comment Section levels of trash almost everywhere in here, not at all helped by the Summertime surge of kids signing up for deh pronz except because of Covid that surge is year-round instead of just the beginning of Summer

Also it'd need a loooot more steps then one "Shitty Devs" thread to get even a fraction of KiwiFarm's shittery levels :V

 

[Harel]

Point. There's also a number of other alternatives, just having a Wiki detailing history of projects would help, and not just for minimizing shitting on devs but also for Devs and projects that go above and beyond. Karryn's Prison, Roundscape Adorevia, Caliross to name a few.

Buuut as mentioned that and others all require effort most won't bother or care enough about to do.

Also I feel that I should point out that there isn't much to poison on this site. It's pretty much Youtube Comment Section levels of trash almost everywhere in here, not at all helped by the Summertime surge of kids signing up for deh pronz except because of Covid that surge is year-round instead of just the beginning of Summer

Also it'd need a loooot more steps then one "Shitty Devs" thread to get even a fraction of KiwiFarm's shittery levels :V

Take care. 'This looks like a good idea' can go so very badly; it happens way too often. I'd recommend not handwaving the difficulties and pitfalls, but actively seeking them out to try to mitigate the damage if you proceed with this.

Honestly, I'm against the idea of a gatekeeping thread. Reviews and the threads themselves tell the story fairly well, and the objectivity required to curate such a thread is likely beyond the vast majority of folks. We humans are too biased. I suggest just leaving a review if you like the work, or if you have problems with it. The current system works reasonably well, with what appears to be only minor drama.

 

[Sarkath]

Point. There's also a number of other alternatives, just having a Wiki detailing history of projects would help, and not just for minimizing shitting on devs but also for Devs and projects that go above and beyond. Karryn's Prison, Roundscape Adorevia, Caliross to name a few.

I think recognizing projects that go above and beyond is a better approach in general. Shitting on bad projects can be fun (and let's be real: I'm guilty as charged, your honor!), but I've found that negativity often begets negativity (often from unexpected sources), and sometimes garbage is best cast aside and ignored while the diamonds should be allowed to shine. Look at how many times we had a new person come into this very thread and start throwing flames because their first introduction to this slice of the F95 community was seeing people slagging off the developer of their new favorite game. Now imagine that on a broader scale.

I'm a little leery about using project history as a metric as well. Some projects, such as Minotaur Hotel, are only updated a couple times a year, but the individual updates are massive. Considering how easy it is to pad out a changelog it's kind of hard to treat it as useful data. If you start introducing an editorial spin on it, it stops being data and suddenly becomes a review.

 

[Keldin]

I think recognizing projects that go above and beyond is a better approach in general. Shitting on bad projects can be fun (and let's be real: I'm guilty as charged, your honor!), but I've found that negativity often begets negativity (often from unexpected sources), and sometimes garbage is best cast aside and ignored while the diamonds should be allowed to shine. Look at how many times we had a new person come into this very thread and start throwing flames because their first introduction to this slice of the F95 community was seeing people slagging off the developer of their new favorite game. Now imagine that on a broader scale.

We already have that on a broader scale though. At a certain point you can't poison the well because all there is is poison. Barely any discussion actually happens in most threads, half a dozen "why does this thing marked with the thing I don't like have the thing I don't like", "savez ploz", circle jerks in both directions about Machine translation, same cycle of the same conversation as helpfully evidenced by this thread, so on and so forth.

Like sometimes we get genuine good threads that maintain a not-Youtube-cancer level, like in karyyn's Prison where game mechanics and .json editing and such are discussed in what passes for civility on the net. Those are few and far between, and have already held up against the tides of the rest of the site's standard interactions and users.

I'm a little leery about using project history as a metric as well. Some projects, such as Minotaur Hotel, are only updated a couple times a year, but the individual updates are massive. Considering how easy it is to pad out a changelog it's kind of hard to treat it as useful data. If you start introducing an editorial spin on it, it stops being data and suddenly becomes a review.

I..never specified quality based on update speed and amounts of updates? Roundscape has long gaps and then pretty sizeable content drops, Karryn's prison has major content drops every few months with small bugfixes here and there in the interim, Caliross has been in development for several years but it has been steadily worked on and updated and so on.

A wiki could feasibly work out with a large enough community to self-moderate it, and just detailing the development process and history is entirely possible with out devolving into completely biased content


I mean you probably have a better chance of winning 10 back-to-back lottos then that ever coming to fruition but I didn't actually think a thread collating all the "questionable" devs would ever actually happen, let alone any of the even more unlikely suggestions.

These are just more of thought-exercises then anything else cuz I'm having a particulraly boring night :V

 

[Sarkath]

We already have that on a broader scale though. At a certain point you can't poison the well because all there is is poison. Barely any discussion actually happens in most threads, half a dozen "why does this thing marked with the thing I don't like have the thing I don't like", "savez ploz", circle jerks in both directions about Machine translation, same cycle of the same conversation as helpfully evidenced by this thread, so on and so forth.

Hah! Yeah, fair point.

Like sometimes we get genuine good threads that maintain a not-Youtube-cancer level, like in karyyn's Prison where game mechanics and .json editing and such are discussed in what passes for civility on the net. Those are few and far between, and have already held up against the tides of the rest of the site's standard interactions and users.

It kind of seems like the smaller and/or more niche the game, the higher the quality of the thread (though that's largely true of the Internet as a whole).

I..never specified quality based on update speed and amounts of updates? Roundscape has long gaps and then pretty sizeable content drops, Karryn's prison has major content drops every few months with small bugfixes here and there in the interim, Caliross has been in development for several years but it has been steadily worked on and updated and so on.

Oh no, I didn't mean to imply that you did. I just meant to say that documenting a game's history would likely either be a collection of neutral facts of dubious usefulness or biased to the point of essentially being a review. Pretty much just me being cynical, lol

It really depends on how well the hypothetical wiki is moderated, as well as how many people contribute to it.

I mean you probably have a better chance of winning 10 back-to-back lottos then that ever coming to fruition but I didn't actually think a thread collating all the "questionable" devs would ever actually happen, let alone any of the even more unlikely suggestions.

These are just more of thought-exercises then anything else cuz I'm having a particulraly boring night :V

I do think that having some sort of developer/project spotlight (unless there already is one? I don't venture out of individual game threads at all) is a fantastic idea.

Honestly, one of the main things that drove me to this site in the first place is its utility as a discovery service. Patreon projects tend to be pretty lax at ensuring that their public releases are representative of what they're actually selling. Having an additional layer of curation on top of that would trim off quite a bit of fat.