Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.9.9] [Innoxia]

[tehlemon]

I just stumbled upon this game today, but what happened here???

Okay, serious advice time. Leave the thread. Go play the game until you start to get bored, then come back. Most of this drama is only going to be relevant for people who've been watching the project for a long time.

The game is fun for awhile, so go enjoy it for a bit before we drag you into any drama lol

Y'all'd be in for quite the surprise if you ever actually asked Inno to describe her own code, but do go on, this imaginary version of her is quite entertaining

Yeah, like, Inno has talked about the game code on the blog in the past. One of the major issues going into the last major update was that the entire encounter system had to be redesigned because of how bad the original system was. Acting like Inno would never admit fault or problems with the game code doesn't make a lot of sense at this point.

Doesn't really help the current state of things, but whatever.

 

[IvoryOwl]

Oh so she knows her work is fundamentally flawed but is either incapable or can't be bothered to fix it after so many years and dollars she's received, thanks for the clarification that's so much better!
/s

She has revamped several areas of the game over the years. Every time she opens up a new area for modding, that section of the code has to be cleaned up and refactored as well, to make templates more manageable. The problem is, the game stands on bad foundations (old Java version) and a serious revamp from top to bottom would be akin to tearing everything down and starting over from scratch.

The engine would have to change as well because Java 8, specifically the version she uses, is quite old too. However, that would imply learning new code and the gimmicks that come with the new engine. All things together, we're looking at probably a year (or more) dedicated exclusively to this endeavor. After that, comes porting all the existing content into the newer iteration, assuming she doesn't change her mind and scrap what was done for something else. It would be a long time before we'd actually see anything new.

Yeah... it's easier to keep things as is and revamp as needed, than to start from scratch.
I simply don't see Inno with the inclination or will to start over. If things ever get that dire, Inno will probably just pull the plug and move on to something else IMO.

 

[Sarkath]

The engine would have to change as well because Java 8, specifically the version she uses, is quite old too.

It's pretty easy to build Lilith's Throne with newer versions of Java. My Mac ARM fat JARs target Java 17, for example, and I didn't have to do too much to make that happen.

The main issue is that the removal of JavaFX from the JRE makes redistribution much harder. The only real option is to create "fat JARs" (that is, JARs that contain the entirety of OpenJFX and other dependencies). This will greatly inflate the size of the JAR, and it's a bit of an unrecommended hack job.

On the other hand, Java 8 is easy. It's still the version recommended by Oracle to Windows users (Inno's primary audience) and it skirts around all of that mess by having all that stuff built in. I really can't blame her for sticking with it, seeing as she has to deal with an issue that Sun/Oracle caused and that they aren't exactly making it easy to work around. The overemphasis on "write once, run everywhere" made it so that handling mandatory native libraries is often unnecessarily messy.

 

[Carl0sDanger]

It would be a long time before we'd actually see anything new.

As opposed to ... ?

Look, if building a new engine from the ground up is what's needed to complete the core game, that's just what needs to be done. ATM though, forward progress seems primarily stalled by a phenomenon known as "Inno not working".

If we ever get to a stage where Inno is actually working along the path laid out in her own development roadmap with a level of application anywhere in the vicinity of what she is committed to, it seems likely to me that she'll start running into brick walls where the engine just won't let her implement what she's trying to implement. That is, she'll be trying to add new areas and scenes and the engine won't support that.

But we are not in that situation.

If all Inno intends to do is hang out on Discord, add races and items made by other people and do the occaisional bugfix, the engine is letting her do that just fine.

 

[BobCarter]

To be fair they do randomly seem to put in real effort, then go dark for like a year or so.
Like seeing 4-5 updates in a semi-reasonable time frame then nothing for like 7+ months.

 

[BBGunna]

She has revamped several areas of the game over the years. Every time she opens up a new area for modding, that section of the code has to be cleaned up and refactored as well, to make templates more manageable. The problem is, the game stands on bad foundations (old Java version) and a serious revamp from top to bottom would be akin to tearing everything down and starting over from scratch.

The engine would have to change as well because Java 8, specifically the version she uses, is quite old too. However, that would imply learning new code and the gimmicks that come with the new engine. All things together, we're looking at probably a year (or more) dedicated exclusively to this endeavor. After that, comes porting all the existing content into the newer iteration, assuming she doesn't change her mind and scrap what was done for something else. It would be a long time before we'd actually see anything new.

Yeah... it's easier to keep things as is and revamp as needed, than to start from scratch.
I simply don't see Inno with the inclination or will to start over. If things ever get that dire, Inno will probably just pull the plug and move on to something else IMO.

Oh I understand this, I was more reacting to the assertion that Inno knowing her code is shit somehow makes it better. In the end shit code is shit code and you're right that at this point starting from scratch is basically a nonstarter at least if she wants to keep the current momentum and funds she has now. Still in the long run I can't help but feel we're gonna hit that point where the flawed foundation ultimately makes it impossible to build practically and the whole thing collapses. A rework feels more like an inevitability than an option but at that point Inno is more likely to just fuck off and abandon ship.

 

[Paril]

I can't for the life of me figure out how to bring slaves in combat. Can anyone explain how?

 

[Kallumin]

I can't for the life of me figure out how to bring slaves in combat. Can anyone explain how?

You have to turn the option to bring "companions" with you on in the game menu, it's off by default.

 

[Paril]

You have to turn the option to bring "companions" with you on in the game menu, it's off by default.

Thanks. There was nothing about it on the wiki so I just fumbled around

 

[NajaNaga]

Thanks. There was nothing about it on the wiki so I just fumbled around

Just in general I wouldn't rely on the wiki too much anymore, if you look at "recent changes" it's gotten pretty dead and stuff like the Races page hasn't been touched in forever. Anything on there is likely to be multiple years out of date, for the parts of LT that have changed at all since then at least.

 

[Dr.Feelgood]

Y'all'd be in for quite the surprise if you ever actually asked Inno to describe her own code, but do go on, this imaginary version of her is quite entertaining

I mean, we would if we wouldn't instantly get kicked for trying to discuss the subject from her discord/hug box in a way that might potentially lead to some sort of progress. Given how not 100% encouraging Inno in her every endeavor or month long break is enough to earn a swift boot...

 

[Quintilus]

If you're aiming it at that sort of audience, targeting .NET wouldn't be a bad idea. That should allow it to slot into Unity pretty much effortlessly, and I believe there are .NET connectors for Unreal as well. That would also allow it to work with the Mono version of Godot.

Cross-platform desktop support has also been improving drastically in .NET as well, which certainly helps. With the upcoming AvaloniaUI 0.11 offering WPF-style rich text spans, it would be possible to create an LT-like game that wouldn't have to lean on embedded web views.

Debatable.
C++ now have compiler options to let it be translated to pretty much any platform/language in native code.
But yes, on C# its easier, since there are no segmentation fault, in generic case, even if it will be a little bit slower than C++ variant.

"thats just a text game, performance is not important here", yeee yeeee, I know...ooopppsie, my LT crashed due to stack overflow caused by childrens count.

 

[Simp Cattu]

I mean, we would if we wouldn't instantly get kicked for trying to discuss the subject from her discord/hug box in a way that might potentially lead to some sort of progress. Given how not 100% encouraging Inno in her every endeavor or month long break is enough to earn a swift boot...

When I was still in that hell hole, I once asked "Where is the update post?" since she promised earlier that she'd make one by that date, which was already delayed several times. She replied with a crying face, and people started bombarding me with "oh another white name" (means I'm not a supporter) and "she has enough problems" etc. I just noped out of there because nothing good can come out of those pampering white knight behavior. That was years ago and I can't imagine how much it has gone downhill from there.

 

[Sarkath]

Debatable.
C++ now have compiler options to let it be translated to pretty much any platform/language in native code.
But yes, on C# its easier, since there are no segmentation fault, in generic case, even if it will be a little bit slower than C++ variant.

Having a library like this in native code introduces a bunch of complications. Namely, the fact that it'll have to be built for every platform. At the very least: one x64 DLL for Windows, ELF for Linux/x64 and Linux/arm64, and Mach-O for macOS/x64 and macOS/arm64. Add in a few more if you want to support 32-bit systems. Cross-compiling is possible, sure, but at some point it'll need to be tested by someone who uses the target platform.

On the other hand, if you create a .NET class library or a Java package, it's one assembly for all platforms. If the code is reasonably well-written, the performance hit will be imperceivable, especially when you consider that C/C++ interop adds extra overhead when used with managed languages (especially if complex types are used). That's the main reason I suggested going that route (that, and the fact that distributing natives can be kind of annoying if you're using a managed language).

Really, though, after some thought I'm not sure how helpful something like this would be considering how many of games seem to use either use Ren'Py or some sort of HTML/JS-based engine (helloooooo Twine!). If they write it in Python as they originally mentioned, at least the folks making Ren'Py games might be able to use it.

 

[agrozombie]

ok i found 2 or 3 major problems id like to address 1 weird crash issue if the game runs too long 2 if not crash it does not save 3 the lag holy crap. i sware i can run subnatica on this pc with verry little lag but this no those are my issues
8 gb ram amd ryzen 9 processor 8 core are my specs video card 2gb ddr4

 

[Paril]

Just in general I wouldn't rely on the wiki too much anymore, if you look at "recent changes" it's gotten pretty dead and stuff like the Races page hasn't been touched in forever. Anything on there is likely to be multiple years out of date, for the parts of LT that have changed at all since then at least.

I can tell, but it's not like there's much of choice is there?

On another note, does anyone know that's the requirement to unlock sex actions for nipple penetrations? It's already enabled in the content option, but I just can't find how to do it

Edit: Nvm, I just figured it out right as I typed that in

 

[Quintilus]

If the code is reasonably well-written

Remind me, why are we discussing what would be the best way of rewriting LT???

 

[Quintilus]

I can tell, but it's not like there's much of choice is there?

On another note, does anyone know that's the requirement to unlock sex actions for nipple penetrations? It's already enabled in the content option, but I just can't find how to do it

Fuckable nipples.

 

[Paril]

Fuckable nipples.
View attachment 2050558

Oh, thanks! I thought I already figured that out... When I read nipple-cunts, I imagined something else

 

[GoldenFlower]

Sad that the bad end update to Themiscyra didn't make it in. It shoulda gone way worse for meraxis