VN Ren'Py Abandoned Lord of Imagination [Ep. 4.5 NTR] [AgentGames]

[ptahn]

I can confidently say that you're wrong in that regard. The previous game I had worked with had most of the traffic to Patreon come from sites like Deviantart and Pixiv, then some of it came from Reddit and fewer still came from google searches. Contribution of f95 to the traffic was almost negligible. I'll have to assume only a tiny percentage of that traffic still contributed in the patronage.
As for your experience, well, I can't really debate that. All I am saying is that we've encountered more toxic non-NTR fans than NTR fans.
And yeah, this is something I've been meaning to do for a long time. Though I don't want to do something as on the nose yet. We'll soon be adding animations in the game. One animation every month until we hit a Patreon goal. Which scenes will be animated will be chosen by the patrons. So within a month or two, I'll have a pretty good idea of which fetish the patrons favor.

Of course you have had more issues with non-NTR fans since for the longest time you had an NTR game. Even when the non-NTR path was added and for some time afterwards you had an NTR game with some avoidable scenes.

I have stated in many discussions groups on Fzone about the contribution this site makes to get developers patrons. I have had this conversation with the developers themselves. You are the first one ever to deny my claim. Perhaps your lack of support from this site has to do more with the lack of updates. Your game is not discussed in other forums so the only times players hear about it is when it appears in Latest Updates or when you get some buzz in What's New because of all the discussion. As far as your last game (and I am not trying to be rude), perhaps one of the reasons it failed was because it was not getting sponsors from this site. In any case, why would developers (including you) engage in discussions here if the site was meaningless?

If you do a poll about NTR content in your game, I would suggest not only having "Keep" or "Lose" choices, but also a "Don't Care" option.

 

[Sihil]

Of course you have had more issues with non-NTR fans since for the longest time you had an NTR game. Even when the non-NTR path was added and for some time afterwards you had an NTR game with some avoidable scenes.

I have stated in many discussions groups on Fzone about the contribution this site makes to get developers patrons. I have had this conversation with the developers themselves. You are the first one ever to deny my claim. Perhaps your lack of support from this site has to do more with the lack of updates. Your game is not discussed in other forums so the only times players hear about it is when it appears in Latest Updates or when you get some buzz in What's New because of all the discussion. As far as your last game (and I am not trying to be rude), perhaps one of the reasons it failed was because it was not getting sponsors from this site. In any case, why would developers (including you) engage in discussions here if the site was meaningless?

If you do a poll about NTR content in your game, I would suggest not only having "Keep" or "Lose" choices, but also a "Don't Care" option.

Again, I'm not saying sites like this one don't add anything to the game's patronage. Just that the contribution of pirate sites is demonstrably less than sites like reddit and the developers' deviantart. As for the lack of updates part, ever since I joined in December, we've had 4 updates. That's 4 updates in 6 months. That's not bad, it could be better of course but that score is better than a lot of my peers. The last game currently has around 700k views. That's a decent amount of exposure. It's just that that exposure didn't translate as well into patronage. Well, the developers could gain a third-person perspective on their game for one thing.
And yeah, adding a "don't care" option is good thinking.

 

[MarcelPappas]

You know, I have noticed something that is strange. Sihil talks about the support he gets from the NTR people and that is why he can't make a change in this story. I have NEVER been in an NTR debate where the NTR crowd is absolutely silent. Where are they now? Maybe the reason the game has so few patrons is because they are not playing the game. When was the last pro-NTR post in this thread?

We are here ptahn.
The fact that a game we really loved got butchered by social justice warriors might have got people go silent.
The strangest thing is, there are people who love NTR (me included), and a majority who doesn't.
Should I barge into any non NTR-thread and start a shitstorm? Well, ofc not. I really cannot understand people who report a game because it pictures a fetish they dont like!! It's infuriating!

Another example, I ABSOLUTELLY HATE TOES! Like vomiting level hate. Tho it's a common fetish for many people, so a lot of Developers are including such scenes into their games.
Should the non-foot lovers start a protest for either removing the scenes or the game in total?
No, we just "bliach" while fast skipping the scene.

I red somewhere above that most of NTR games are abbandoned. Well guess why? I pledge you to give me one logical explanation why people intervene with other people's fetishes and demand their's to be stopped, instead of just ignore the specific game???

Another example would be incest. It's both illegal and immoral. Guess what? NTR is none of the above!
Why the fuck are we allowed to kill people but not to mind control "rape" them?
We are talking about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS in a freaking GAME!

Aren't all games here labeled 18+ (or of legal age?). Then we should also protest against all shoot-em-up games etc..
PHEW! Sorry for the rant but I just had to take it out of my system!

Lord of Imagination was the first game in over two years that "clicked" on me, I really liked it, and for what?
Only for other people to force their prefference instead of simple choosing another for literally houndreds of games in here....

Seriously (and its not a rhetorical question), but... why?

 

[ptahn]

We are here ptahn.
The fact that a game we really loved got butchered by social justice warriors might have got people go silent.
The strangest thing is, there are people who love NTR (me included), and a majority who doesn't.
Should I barge into any non NTR-thread and start a shitstorm? Well, ofc not. I really cannot understand people who report a game because it pictures a fetish they dont like!! It's infuriating!

Another example, I ABSOLUTELLY HATE TOES! Like vomiting level hate. Tho it's a common fetish for many people, so a lot of Developers are including such scenes into their games.
Should the non-foot lovers start a protest for either removing the scenes or the game in total?
No, we just "bliach" while fast skipping the scene.

I red somewhere above that most of NTR games are abbandoned. Well guess why? I pledge you to give me one logical explanation why people intervene with other people's fetishes and demand their's to be stopped, instead of just ignore the specific game???

Another example would be incest. It's both illegal and immoral. Guess what? NTR is none of the above!
Why the fuck are we allowed to kill people but not to mind control "rape" them?
We are talking about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS in a freaking GAME!

Aren't all games here labeled 18+ (or of legal age?). Then we should also protest against all shoot-em-up games etc..
PHEW! Sorry for the rant but I just had to take it out of my system!

Lord of Imagination was the first game in over two years that "clicked" on me, I really liked it, and for what?
Only for other people to force their prefference instead of simple choosing another for literally houndreds of games in here....

Seriously (and its not a rhetorical question), but... why?

Someone showed up. As you probably know that whenever this topic shows up, it is a "shitstorm" with a constant back and forth between NTR haters and NTR lovers. In this case after a discussion that went on all day, you finally posted. It would seem to me that perhaps there are not that many NTR lovers in this forum. My discussion has never been about whether or not there should be NTR content, it's about what makes more money. Are you financially supporting this game? If not, then you are proving my point. The reason there are so many more non-NTR games is because they make more money.

 

[ptahn]

Again, I'm not saying sites like this one don't add anything to the game's patronage. Just that the contribution of pirate sites is demonstrably less than sites like reddit and the developers' deviantart. As for the lack of updates part, ever since I joined in December, we've had 4 updates. That's 4 updates in 6 months. That's not bad, it could be better of course but that score is better than a lot of my peers. The last game currently has around 700k views. That's a decent amount of exposure. It's just that that exposure didn't translate as well into patronage. Well, the developers could gain a third-person perspective on their game for one thing.
And yeah, adding a "don't care" option is good thinking.

I think that the reason you may not be getting sponsors from this site is that you are carrying both a "rape" and "NTR" tag.You might want to get an optional added to that.

 

[ShangTsung]

I don't understand why the dev changed the father backstory when it was actually a good part of the game.

 

[ShangTsung]

Someone showed up. As you probably know that whenever this topic shows up, it is a "shitstorm" with a constant back and forth between NTR haters and NTR lovers. In this case after a discussion that went on all day, you finally posted. It would seem to me that perhaps there are not that many NTR lovers in this forum. My discussion has never been about whether or not there should be NTR content, it's about what makes more money. Are you financially supporting this game? If not, then you are proving my point. The reason there are so many more non-NTR games is because they make more money.

I'm sorry to say but the only shitstorm i see in this website is from ntr-haters, i'm not an ntr lover, i don't mind both, but it's a fact, the Ntr haters ARE the problem, and unfortunately a lot of websites tolerate their pathetic toxic behavior, some of them even disabled comments on ntr topics which is not a solution, only meant to destroy any game containing ntr popularity.
A lot of these people are really good for looking for a psychiatrist.

 

[Sihil]

I think that the reason you may not be getting sponsors from this site is that you are carrying both a "rape" and "NTR" tag.You might want to get an optional added to that.

Well just sort the games by the total number of views in this site and you'll see that out of the top thirty games over 20 percent of them have rape as a tag. And there's no way of showing that the tag is avoidable. Besides, unlike NTR there's absolutely no place in the thread where anyone asks if the rape is avoidable.
PS: Around the same number of games in top 30 have NTR in the tags as well.

 

[ptahn]

Well just sort the games by the total number of views in this site and you'll see that out of the top thirty games over 20 percent of them have rape as a tag. And there's no way of showing that the tag is avoidable. Besides, unlike NTR there's absolutely no place in the thread where anyone asks if the rape is avoidable.
PS: Around the same number of games in top 30 have NTR in the tags as well.

Yes, but when you click on Genre, it says "NTR (avoidable)." Your game does not. It would make sense that if you are going to make a game where there is a non-NTR path, you would want people to know about it. And about the rape tag, I only meant that will also drive SOME people away (not as many as the NTR tag); you have both tags.

 

[ptahn]

I'm sorry to say but the only shitstorm i see in this website is from ntr-haters, i'm not an ntr lover, i don't mind both, but it's a fact, the Ntr haters ARE the problem, and unfortunately a lot of websites tolerate their pathetic toxic behavior, some of them even disabled comments on ntr topics which is not a solution, only meant to destroy any game containing ntr popularity.
A lot of these people are really good for looking for a psychiatrist.

Sihil, this gentleman does a lovely job of supporting my point. You and I have had a nice conversation about the financial implications of NTR in a game. As a part of our discussion, you mentioned the toxicity of the messages you were receiving from non-NTR fans. I told you that my experience has been that NTR supporters attack NTR detractors while those that do not like NTR attack the content. As an example this post attacks NTR haters, stating that we may need to see a psychiatrist. At least recently, I haven't gone back and read all the posts in this discussion, has the discussion been toxic? I don't think so. Since this poster replied to one of my posts, do you think I have been anything less than civil? Just saying. My question for ShangTsung is are you a financial supporter of this game?

 

[Gagge89]

Boys....whats the way to arrive at these scene?

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Many scenes are missing ... and i try all the possible combinations of routes..... looking in the images folder inside games I realized that in the story (even using the incest patch) they are missing:
- the blowjob to the boss
- I think related to the blowjob scene to the boss at home, the threesome scene between mother son and boss is also missing
- the scene in which the demon masturbates
and this in the first episode .....

Why????

 

[RedPillBlues]

PS: Around the same number of games in top 30 have NTR in the tags as well.

To be fair only one of them is comparable to your game, The Tyrant. In the other 3 it's just there for a scene or two, not half the game.

 

[EZ8lt]

Boys....whats the way to arrive at these scene?

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Many scenes are missing ... and i try all the possible combinations of routes..... looking in the images folder inside games I realized that in the story (even using the incest patch) they are missing:
- the blowjob to the boss
- I think related to the blowjob scene to the boss at home, the threesome scene between mother son and boss is also missing
- the scene in which the demon masturbates
and this in the first episode .....

Why????

Read the changelog, or the posts by dev a few pages back, and you'll find out.

 

[Gagge89]

Read the changelog, or the posts by dev a few pages back, and you'll find out.

But then certain scenes have been completely canceled without the possibility of seeing them even through the incest patch?
So how come they continue to be featured in the game's image gallery?

 

[EZ8lt]

But then certain scenes have been completely canceled without the possibility of seeing them even through the incest patch?
So how come they continue to be featured in the game's image gallery?

I can only repeat myself. Read the changelog, or the posts by dev a few pages back, and you'll find out.

 

[Sihil]

Yes, but when you click on Genre, it says "NTR (avoidable)." Your game does not. It would make sense that if you are going to make a game where there is a non-NTR path, you would want people to know about it. And about the rape tag, I only meant that will also drive SOME people away (not as many as the NTR tag); you have both tags.

I'll ask the mods to edit that. There's also a "school setting" tag for some reason that needs to be edited out

Sihil, this gentleman does a lovely job of supporting my point. You and I have had a nice conversation about the financial implications of NTR in a game. As a part of our discussion, you mentioned the toxicity of the messages you were receiving from non-NTR fans. I told you that my experience has been that NTR supporters attack NTR detractors while those that do not like NTR attack the content. As an example this post attacks NTR haters, stating that we may need to see a psychiatrist. At least recently, I haven't gone back and read all the posts in this discussion, has the discussion been toxic? I don't think so. Since this poster replied to one of my posts, do you think I have been anything less than civil? Just saying. My question for ShangTsung is are you a financial supporter of this game?

Well to be fair to him, he doesn't go after anyone specific and going just by his own words he's not an NTR fan whether or not he truly supports the fetish, only he knows.
Recently the thread hasn't been bad because the mods have been deleting comments that might be rude or insensitive. Only two days ago someone in this thread accused me of deleting his comment (which I didn't) and not being able to take criticism. He ended the post by saying "good I hope your game dies." Since I didn't delete his comments and had no idea what he was talking about, I admittedly got pissed off and said something along the lines of "there's at least one comment on every page here where someone is being a dick I haven't reported those, why would yours be any special?" And the mods stepped in deleted both of our comments and gave me (and I assume him) warning for the infraction of community guidelines. I'm not even sure if anyone else got to read those. Anyway, my point is the mods have been deleting the comments so the discussion appears more civil than it originally was.
One a semi-related note to your last point and this is something I have been meaning to say for a long time if you like the game but can't support it on Patreon, that's fine. Just write a positive review or like the OP

To be fair only one of them is comparable to your game, The Tyrant. In the other 3 it's just there for a scene or two, not half the game.

The point Ptahn made was that having NTR and rape in a game decreases the attention it gets to which I replied that around 20 percent of the games in the top 30 most viewed games list have NTR in the tags. Now I haven't played most of the games here so I don't know how much NTR each game has but that's beside the point. The question was simply whether having NTR (and rape) in the game decreases the attention received or not.
As for NTR making half of the total content of the game, currently there is one NTR scene in the entire game. By the end of the game, out of the entire bulk of the content, NTR is planned to comprise slightly less than a third of all content. Call this nitpicking if you will but I think I should be upfront about this.

 

[Valrin72]

We are here ptahn.
Another example, I ABSOLUTELLY HATE TOES! Like vomiting level hate. Tho it's a common fetish for many people, so a lot of Developers are including such scenes into their games.
Should the non-foot lovers start a protest for either removing the scenes or the game in total?
No, we just "bliach" while fast skipping the scene.

I agree 100%. Feet are just gross. I think all foot fetish games should be banned. I think the character models shouldn't even HAVE feet. Nasty, gross, disgusting things. [only partially kidding - feet are nasty]

We are here ptahn.
Another example would be incest. It's both illegal and immoral. Guess what? NTR is none of the above!
Why the fuck are we allowed to kill people but not to mind control "rape" them?
We are talking about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS in a freaking GAME!

My question is, why does everyone always assume that NTR means rape? I want a story with NO mind control where you simply have to win the women over and you have a competitor who can steal them from you by simply being better/more interesting/nicer than you. You know, like the real world. I don't mind some NTR now and then (I do both play throughs every time there's an update for The Spellbook) but I still prefer my games to be less rapey.

Now, if we could just end the 6 year long trend of incest porn maybe we could have some actual romance stories that don't make my wife look at me like she's thinking of calling the cops.

 

[MarcelPappas]

You see ptahn, here is where u are wrong.
First of all -no offence- but this is not a place for a general discussion regarding the profit or not of the NTR genre.
You could continue this one with Sihil in private if u like (No offence again, just your comment/reply to ShangTsung seemed very agressive).
Secondly, ShangTsung clearly stated that he's not an NTR-lover. Yet however you pile him up with the NTR-Lovers camp (who attack non NTR in this eternal conflict -in your mind-)
Last but not least, since you asked personally; if I support the game financially, I recently unsubscribed, simply because this is not the game I was paying for. Call it scene removal, or perhaps direction shift, sorry but all these changes (Carl, Sara, Father), have transformed a unique game to yet-another-one-of-those.
But then again, since when must someone pay in order to express his oppinion?

One last question since u stated you love good discussions, could you please provide a valid reason as of why NTR-haters barge into NTR games and "demand" stuff? (removals , terminations etc)
I mean, I stated it into my last post, why not let the developer do his job, the fans enjoy it, and themselves simply move on by not bothering with the specific game/genre/fetish?

Oh, I almost forgot, you humourusly said about "need of a psychiatrist" (your statement, no1 event remotely mentioned something similar); but then again, if you (generally, not you in person of course) mess around with stuff that you don't like, are not illegal, are not immoral, which you can simply ignore, and yet you are demanding actions, simply because(?); then it's not to be laughed, a psychologist could be helpful, such persons seem to have real issues to a neutral observer

Cheers!

 

[jpostel]

Hey Sihil I am a Patron now. If you want this to be a story about mind control and incest, then go for it. As long as the story and game play get cleaned up, I am with you. If you want to make the game NTR, then do it. If you don't, then don't.

 

[Larry2000]

You see ptahn, here is where u are wrong.
First of all -no offence- but this is not a place for a general discussion regarding the profit or not of the NTR genre.
You could continue this one with Sihil in private if u like (No offence again, just your comment/reply to ShangTsung seemed very agressive).
Secondly, ShangTsung clearly stated that he's not an NTR-lover. Yet however you pile him up with the NTR-Lovers camp (who attack non NTR in this eternal conflict -in your mind-)
Last but not least, since you asked personally; if I support the game financially, I recently unsubscribed, simply because this is not the game I was paying for. Call it scene removal, or perhaps direction shift, sorry but all these changes (Carl, Sara, Father), have transformed a unique game to yet-another-one-of-those.
But then again, since when must someone pay in order to express his oppinion?

One last question since u stated you love good discussions, could you please provide a valid reason as of why NTR-haters barge into NTR games and "demand" stuff? (removals , terminations etc)
I mean, I stated it into my last post, why not let the developer do his job, the fans enjoy it, and themselves simply move on by not bothering with the specific game/genre/fetish?

Oh, I almost forgot, you humourusly said about "need of a psychiatrist" (your statement, no1 event remotely mentioned something similar); but then again, if you (generally, not you in person of course) mess around with stuff that you don't like, are not illegal, are not immoral, which you can simply ignore, and yet you are demanding actions, simply because(?); then it's not to be laughed, a psychologist could be helpful, such persons seem to have real issues to a neutral observer

Cheers!

I don't mean to get in the middle of this "peaceful" conversation, but the "need of a psychiatrist" thing was mentioned by ShangTsung. It wasn't exactly hidden.