VN Ren'Py Abandoned Lord of Imagination [Ep. 4.5 NTR] [AgentGames]

[Sihil]

Okay, now we have an FAQ section so if you want to know if NTR is avoidable, take a look there.

I don't think she is a Lesbian, she has a clear attraction to him. Maybe she is just Bi and has been with girls because she just does not wish to be with guys other then the MC,

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This, kind of.

i've read many people disagree with me that patreons should have a say development. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You dont have to agree with mine. I'm saying , if dev ignores the voices of patreon they lose them. Some saying patreon are like tips, which i somewhat agree but developer have to cater to the masses's taste in order to make money. They are not there to dev game for free, without financial motivation it is dead in the waters. This is why you see polls and discords channels for their game. they want to know what the patreons want. You dont have to agree with me but ignoring this points is a bit ignorant imo.
lets not start a flame war for this.

Hume's Guillotine. Developers are going to make the game that they want to make but if they want the game to succeed financially, they should listen to the patrons, market the game well and have at relatively good development cycle. We haven't checked the last two boxes as well as we should have lately, hence the low patronage.

Actually, you were right and should have followed your instincts. When this game was first posted, AG got a lot of complaints from the non-NTR people. I do not like NTR games and when I saw the comments, I checked out AG's Patreon page. Since his goal was modest, I remained silent because I knew that he could eventually reach his goal even with an NTR game. About a week later he updated with the non-NTR option. He had few supporters so I signed up for a buck a month without having played the game. I encouraged (or maybe tried to shame) all those who asked for the non-NTR path to chip in a least a buck. I don't know that anyone really listened. AG might have been right about most of his current supporters being NTR fans since this was basically an NTR game with content that could be avoided. There was not a non-NTR path just an avoidable scene.

I used to think that financially it made sense to have an NTR path and a non-NTR path; you would get both sides supporting you. I no longer believe that is true. Non-NTR games make more money than NTR games, that is why there are so many more non-NTR games than NTR games. Games that have both paths seem to fall somewhere between the two. Some evidence: games that start out as NTR and add the non-NTR path get an immediate jump in sponsorship. If I remember correctly, it happened with this story. However, a game that has both paths never seems to achieve the success of solely non-NTR games. There is a certain amount of logic to it. If you are trying to do both paths, you either end up the an NTR game with some scenes that you can skip or have two separate paths which mean you update less often or with less content. Any of those options hurt you financially.

At one point I was willing to consider increasing my level of support, but ended up cancelling it altogether when you failed to meet your stated release date. I understood that there were some issues going on, but there was no posted explanation when the stated dated came and went. I asked about the update and got no response. I might have resigned when the update finally arrived but it turned out to be an NTR update with avoidable scenes. I kind of lost interest once the non-NTR update finally arrived.

You know, I get why you'd draw this conclusion but here's the thing, I don't know if there are a ton of finished NTR games right now. The way I see it, NTR is kind of a cursed fetish where the players get cucked more outside any given game with rarer releases and frequent abandonments then within the games. The key to getting more patronage is the three things I said earlier but as our game right now is kind of a mess with logical inconsistencies and errors with the incest patch, I can't really market it right now. Anyway, the game will grow when people start to have faith in it which in turn will happen when it gets polished a bit.
As for your lost interest, well, I tend to make a point of notifying the patrons whenever there's a delay. Which is essentially why we recently switched to the "weekly status update" model. As for not answering you, if you were a patron when you asked this question on either Patreon or Discord, I likely must have answered it. But if you weren't a patron, I don't really have any obligations towards the non-patrons as rude as that sounds.

Man, that'd be a tragedy if that happened. I would lose a good amount of interest in this game, as a lot of others would as well.

Incest and mind control are pretty much the two legs this game stands on. And don't worry about Patreon deleting the game, they generally don't tend to do that unless the "sexual violence" in the game is too on the nose. When I was working on Whores of Thrones, the incest patch literally unlocked Arya-Ned scenes and Patreon didn't do anything about it. Essentially, as someone said above, the problem is not Patreon as much as it is the money transferring services. That being said, if Patreon does decide to do the unthinkable we'll have a subscribestar ready.

 

[RandomGuy99]

Okay, now we have an FAQ section so if you want to know if NTR is avoidable, take a look there.

This, kind of.

Hume's Guillotine. Developers are going to make the game that they want to make but if they want the game to succeed financially, they should listen to the patrons, market the game well and have at relatively good development cycle. We haven't checked the last two boxes as well as we should have lately, hence the low patronage.

You know, I get why you'd draw this conclusion but here's the thing, I don't know if there are a ton of finished NTR games right now. The way I see it, NTR is kind of a cursed fetish where the players get cucked more outside any given game with rarer releases and frequent abandonments then within the games. The key to getting more patronage is the three things I said earlier but as our game right now is kind of a mess with logical inconsistencies and errors with the incest patch, I can't really market it right now. Anyway, the game will grow when people start to have faith in it which in turn will happen when it gets polished a bit.
As for your lost interest, well, I tend to make a point of notifying the patrons whenever there's a delay. Which is essentially why we recently switched to the "weekly status update" model. As for not answering you, if you were a patron when you asked this question on either Patreon or Discord, I likely must have answered it. But if you weren't a patron, I don't really have any obligations towards the non-patrons as rude as that sounds.

Incest and mind control are pretty much the two legs this game stands on. And don't worry about Patreon deleting the game, they generally don't tend to do that unless the "sexual violence" in the game is too on the nose. When I was working on Whores of Thrones, the incest patch literally unlocked Arya-Ned scenes and Patreon didn't do anything about it. Essentially, as someone said above, the problem is not Patreon as much as it is the money transferring services. That being said, if Patreon does decide to do the unthinkable we'll have a subscribestar ready.

i think it would be better if the routes break down to good path , corruption path, bad ending path instead of NTR and non NTR. Gd path ie love with one character, corruption ie harem, bad ending path NTR stuff... just an example. Then you cater all the masses. Just do a poll in patreon which path to update, patreon will vote with their wallet

 

[Sihil]

i think it would be better if the routes break down to good path , corruption path, bad ending path instead of NTR and non NTR. Gd path ie love with one character, corruption ie harem, bad ending path NTR stuff... just an example. Then you cater all the masses. Just do a poll in patreon which path to update, patreon will vote with their wallet

I've always been upfront that the game will have three paths, the ones you mentioned but "good" path will be more concerned with the morality of MC's actions instead of whom he decides to be with

 

[Gold613]

Let me start of by making this very clear, I am not for or against NTR.

So while I don't mind reworks and etc to the betterment of say for the sake of story or improvement, it did take a bit out the quite a few amount of renders, this is just fact. Nothing wrong with it and I can understand it. Personally I am fine with the rework of it and it being taken out at the start of things as it was a little to quick and in to deep.So this fixed the pacing in my personal opinion.

I don't want to start a whole NTR debate crap or what not. But the reason I can see most people are against NTR is simply for one reason and I agree with that reason as I too hate it, not because of NTR but because of the matter of fact surrounding it in most games. That fact is that most NTR games have it in just for the sake of having it in and are poorly written as hell, the biggest personal Vendetta I have with most NTR games is when the actors break character. As in say for example MC has to jump through fire and hoops for just a kiss and holding hands in all taking a span over 3 updates and after a few more updates finally he gets some and it is vanilla as hell and has to wear a condom, while the NTR interest shows up in chapter 1 chad style bing bang badaboom dick the size of your arm all the way up their chest cavity reaming it like no tomorrow and no condom and full on creampie and all is guchi. I freaking can't stand that crap.

Note I am not taking a jab at this game at all. Am just giving a common occurrence in most NTR games. There are a few out there that do it good. I personally like playing all routes even IF I may not like it, I do so for the simple reason of story sake and trying to get a better understanding of plot as when a game is good and the writing is good and done well, you may get info on one route that you might not have known on the other route.And you are correct that a lot of NTR games do not even get to meet a completion tag, that goes the same for incest titles and it gets even worse when both are involved.

This game has a dead clear focus on mind control/manipulation/break, So this makes it understandable to say that most characters under influence can and will break character with exceptions those who do not get effected by those abilities and are immune to them.

There are 3 paths that is cool that means I get to play 3 different "iterations" so to speak which I am happy about.But also makes me wonder if there will be a walkthrough at one point. And if not then a way to clear indicator to let you know on what the path is you are on. Personally I like the game and enjoy it.

However Sihil I do have a questions though, you don't have to answer it if you don't want too.

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So my first question is, Will we ever find out exactly what took place ?
Second question is, Was the part where if the route she is hired going to be revamped ? or is that just a accidental oversight that will or will not be addressed ?

 

[adirami]

Changelog

 

[RandomGuy99]

I've always been upfront that the game will have three paths, the ones you mentioned but "good" path will be more concerned with the morality of MC's actions instead of whom he decides to be with

i personally like corruption path... esp since zel says you cant use it on her...the more i wana try XD
on a serious note, keep up the gd work. just hope the development is more consistent, otherwise this title have potential to be among the best

 

[Summer Love]

I unrenpy'd the images and I found that there is an ending to ch 3 where the mc and "landlady" kiss, but I can't for the life of me find out how to get it. I swear i've tried every different dialogue option available multiple times but I can't get anything other than using his magic green giant funk to make her calm down.

 

[Gold613]

I unrenpy'd the images and I found that there is an ending to ch 3 where the mc and "landlady" kiss, but I can't for the life of me find out how to get it. I swear i've tried every different dialogue option available multiple times but I can't get anything other than using his magic green giant funk to make her calm down.

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The fact that some people are already having trouble with this proves my point that this game will require a Walkthrough at some point or an indicator of the MC his Moral compass. Because from what I gather from what Sihil was saying the game will have 3 routes, which by my 3 different endings for current build does confirm, However what was said that the routes are more then likely based on the Characters Moral Compass/Affinity as in, will he be Evil Neutral or Good and whatever alignment he leans to can change down the line of the game based on the choices you make, so what happened is defined on what his "affinity" is at at the point of the trigger scenes. So if you are Beta at the start but decide to go Alpha at the end he might just end up Neutral and changing the flow of the scenes. I could be wrong about this but that is what I understood from it, I could be wrong though.

 

[StarCreator]

Incest and mind control are pretty much the two legs this game stands on. And don't worry about Patreon deleting the game, they generally don't tend to do that unless the "sexual violence" in the game is too on the nose. When I was working on Whores of Thrones, the incest patch literally unlocked Arya-Ned scenes and Patreon didn't do anything about it. Essentially, as someone said above, the problem is not Patreon as much as it is the money transferring services. That being said, if Patreon does decide to do the unthinkable we'll have a subscribestar ready.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Bintang]

Sometimes he called her mom and most of times he called her Sara. What's wrong with this patch?

 

[Sihil]

Let me start of by making this very clear, I am not for or against NTR.

So while I don't mind reworks and etc to the betterment of say for the sake of story or improvement, it did take a bit out the quite a few amount of renders, this is just fact. Nothing wrong with it and I can understand it. Personally I am fine with the rework of it and it being taken out at the start of things as it was a little to quick and in to deep.So this fixed the pacing in my personal opinion.

I don't want to start a whole NTR debate crap or what not. But the reason I can see most people are against NTR is simply for one reason and I agree with that reason as I too hate it, not because of NTR but because of the matter of fact surrounding it in most games. That fact is that most NTR games have it in just for the sake of having it in and are poorly written as hell, the biggest personal Vendetta I have with most NTR games is when the actors break character. As in say for example MC has to jump through fire and hoops for just a kiss and holding hands in all taking a span over 3 updates and after a few more updates finally he gets some and it is vanilla as hell and has to wear a condom, while the NTR interest shows up in chapter 1 chad style bing bang badaboom dick the size of your arm all the way up their chest cavity reaming it like no tomorrow and no condom and full on creampie and all is guchi. I freaking can't stand that crap.

Note I am not taking a jab at this game at all. Am just giving a common occurrence in most NTR games. There are a few out there that do it good. I personally like playing all routes even IF I may not like it, I do so for the simple reason of story sake and trying to get a better understanding of plot as when a game is good and the writing is good and done well, you may get info on one route that you might not have known on the other route.And you are correct that a lot of NTR games do not even get to meet a completion tag, that goes the same for incest titles and it gets even worse when both are involved.

This game has a dead clear focus on mind control/manipulation/break, So this makes it understandable to say that most characters under influence can and will break character with exceptions those who do not get effected by those abilities and are immune to them.

There are 3 paths that is cool that means I get to play 3 different "iterations" so to speak which I am happy about.But also makes me wonder if there will be a walkthrough at one point. And if not then a way to clear indicator to let you know on what the path is you are on. Personally I like the game and enjoy it.

However Sihil I do have a questions though, you don't have to answer it if you don't want too.

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So my first question is, Will we ever find out exactly what took place ?
Second question is, Was the part where if the route she is hired going to be revamped ? or is that just a accidental oversight that will or will not be addressed ?

Spoiler

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The fact that some people are already having trouble with this proves my point that this game will require a Walkthrough at some point or an indicator of the MC his Moral compass. Because from what I gather from what Sihil was saying the game will have 3 routes, which by my 3 different endings for current build does confirm, However what was said that the routes are more then likely based on the Characters Moral Compass/Affinity as in, will he be Evil Neutral or Good and whatever alignment he leans to can change down the line of the game based on the choices you make, so what happened is defined on what his "affinity" is at at the point of the trigger scenes. So if you are Beta at the start but decide to go Alpha at the end he might just end up Neutral and changing the flow of the scenes. I could be wrong about this but that is what I understood from it, I could be wrong though.

The gf scene will be expanded upon and as for the walkthrough, yes, I'll have one ready for higher tier patrons sometime after the chapter 3 but I think you pretty much nailed it with your walkthrough

Sometimes he called her mom and most of times he called her Sara. What's wrong with this patch?

It's a mess right now but the proofreaders have caught it and we'll fix it in the next release

 

[Gold613]

The gf scene will be expanded upon and as for the walkthrough, yes, I'll have one ready for higher tier patrons sometime after the chapter 3 but I think you pretty much nailed it with your walkthrough

It's a mess right now but the proofreaders have caught it and we'll fix it in the next release

Thanks for answering. It would definitely clear up things a bit, so I assume with expanding it we also can expect some changes with some of the writings inconsistencies ? This might in some chance make people have to play the game again, However IF that were to be the case I suggest to not stress over it and just go with it. The game has decent content as is the story is getting polished and what not and there is currently plenty of content but the game is not large enough where it would be a super big hassle to start over, at this point it would just be a slight inconvenience. I am terrible at writing walkthroughs though, I just try to analyse things and go from there, hence why I say I like playing all routes, no matter if they are my taste or not. And good writing does make up for it.
Anyways again thanks for answering and much appreciated. Can't wait to see what the next update brings.

 

[Lavoisier]

Here you can find the ITALIAN Translation for Ch3 Part1 inc. patched

You must be registered to see the links

It's a UNOFFICIAL release


You can find more translations at my thread:

[ITALIAN translation] various Ren'Py games

Enjoy!

 

[Jacktron1]

Amy new Ntr stuff?

 

[MarcelPappas]

So, (correct me if I'm mistaken), Patreon forced you to remove half your work (I recall mom rape scene, voyering / wilingly scene, and sharing scene), in order to comply to their rules.
I assume now you are taking a whole different approach to your game, or it ddn't affect the long-term project you had in your mind?

Also, I assume the removed scenes won't be re-implemented somehow, since you 'll violate Patreon rules, right?

 

[RandomGuy99]

Actually, to make the game easier to play; just add a moral/corruption points indicator. That will lets players find out what is the impact of their choice and easier for ppl to write walk through. It should not be that hard to write in RenPy

 

[Sihil]

So, (correct me if I'm mistaken), Patreon forced you to remove half your work (I recall mom rape scene, voyering / wilingly scene, and sharing scene), in order to comply to their rules.
I assume now you are taking a whole different approach to your game, or it ddn't affect the long-term project you had in your mind?

Also, I assume the removed scenes won't be re-implemented somehow, since you 'll violate Patreon rules, right?

Calling it half of the work would be a stretch and not just Patreon, were other factors as well that I've mentioned somewhere in this thread.
I've addressed this in detail in various posts in this thread already but okay, I'll repeat myself here so that this reply becomes the definitive answer to all such questions.
1. Few people were threatening on grounds of rape to report the game unless we remove NTR. Neither AG nor I had any intention of caving in to the demands of the people who very likely would never support the game.
2. That scene relied too heavily on NTR and portrayed Carl as a bit too unhinged/willing to rape MC's mother and generally made him too unlikeable. Since I took over the game, that has changed.
So yes, we removed that scene but that doesn't mean we'll change the direction of the game. The thing with Patreon is, unless the developers are too obvious with the vaguely defined "sexual violence", Patreon generally lets them be so there won't be any drastic changes in the grand scheme of things in the script itself but the corruption of both the MC and the women involved would be a bit more gradual which is what I was planning to do anyway as the idea is to make the corruption more believable than most games here. As for the renders themselves, no, they haven't been tossed out, I've made it clear that we'll be using them later down the road.
If Patreon does ban our page for thoughtcrime then we'll have a Subscribestar ready for less inhibited content and someone with absolutely nooo relation to us will magically come up with a patch that unlocks such content for the subscribers over at Patreon.

Actually, to make the game easier to play; just add a moral/corruption points indicator. That will lets players find out what is the impact of their choice and easier for ppl to write walk through. It should not be that hard to write in RenPy

I was just talking about this with the person who's in talks to be our coder a few days ago. Ultimately I decided against it because for one thing, sometimes the outcome in a certain scene will be decided by a specific choice (like in the ending of this update) that the player made beforehand, and sometimes the outcome will indeed be determined by the morality "score." So in the first case showing a score like this is virtually useless. Besides, I don't want people to obsess over numbers and just enjoy the story and the great renders that AG makes. We'll release a walkthrough eventually anyway.

 

[MarcelPappas]

Thank you, Sihil, for taking the time to post an extended response for me.
Damn, I feel that a big part of the "heart" of the game was ripped with the removal of this scene (since it's early in the game, and so is setting up the path that will follow through later choices).

In my personal (humble) oppinion you are doing a very very good job with your project (both AG and you ofc).

Keep up the good work!

 

[PinkGoddess]

Looks interesting but need more content.. only one NTR scene content and one sex scene with the gf in my run..

 

[ptahn]

You know, I get why you'd draw this conclusion but here's the thing, I don't know if there are a ton of finished NTR games right now. The way I see it, NTR is kind of a cursed fetish where the players get cucked more outside any given game with rarer releases and frequent abandonments then within the games. The key to getting more patronage is the three things I said earlier but as our game right now is kind of a mess with logical inconsistencies and errors with the incest patch, I can't really market it right now. Anyway, the game will grow when people start to have faith in it which in turn will happen when it gets polished a bit.
As for your lost interest, well, I tend to make a point of notifying the patrons whenever there's a delay. Which is essentially why we recently switched to the "weekly status update" model. As for not answering you, if you were a patron when you asked this question on either Patreon or Discord, I likely must have answered it. But if you weren't a patron, I don't really have any obligations towards the non-patrons as rude as that sounds.

I was a patron, I guess you did not read my previous post, for only a dollar a month. I pledged the dollar just because AG offer the NTR path. I pledged before I ever played the game. I might have pledged more based on future content. I ended up cancelling when the promised update came and went without explanation. I had asked about an update on your Patreon page and after a few days passed without response, I discontinued my pledge. I believe that you did respond a few days after I cancelled.

Why do NTR games not get finished? My guess would be because they don't make any money. If a game is successful, it does not usually get abandoned. When asked about successful NTR games, the one that always gets held up as the example is BB. Darksilver has a lot of patrons. It is my understanding that the NTR was put to an end before DS had intended because of all the complaints he got. By the time I played it, there was already a mod to take the NTR out of the game. It is also my understanding that DS is recreating BB in his game Glamour but this time without the NTR. Why would the possible most successful NTR game creator now avoid NTR? In my humble opinion, it's all about the Benjamins.