VN Ren'Py Abandoned Lord of Imagination [Ep. 4.5 NTR] [AgentGames]

[Sihil]

I was a patron, I guess you did not read my previous post, for only a dollar a month. I pledged the dollar just because AG offer the NTR path. I pledged before I ever played the game. I might have pledged more based on future content. I ended up cancelling when the promised update came and went without explanation. I had asked about an update on your Patreon page and after a few days passed without response, I discontinued my pledge. I believe that you did respond a few days after I cancelled.

Why do NTR games not get finished? My guess would be because they don't make any money. If a game is successful, it does not usually get abandoned. When asked about successful NTR games, the one that always gets held up as the example is BB. Darksilver has a lot of patrons. It is my understanding that the NTR was put to an end before DS had intended because of all the complaints he got. By the time I played it, there was already a mod to take the NTR out of the game. It is also my understanding that DS is recreating BB in his game Glamour but this time without the NTR. Why would the possible most successful NTR game creator now avoid NTR? In my humble opinion, it's all about the Benjamins.

Yeah, you're right. I see your post now, it's dated February 11th. I did reply to it but it doesn't seem to tell me the exact date. So yeah, seems I replied to it after you discontinued your pledge.
As for the games that get discontinued, well, Sturgeon's adage applies here. 90 percent of all games here are bad. Thus it stands to reason that 90 percent of NTR games are bad as well NTR game that does deserve more patrons as of now. I think you'll have a hard time naming an. The problem with that is there are 10 percent of games that do deserve more patrons and with a bit of luck and perseverance, they do get what they deserve. Tyrant is one example there. Another example, and one of my favorite H-games, Seeds of Chaos is making a decent sum as well. So in my view, the key is to keep delivering updates with consistent quality and a more or less consistent development cycle along with some good marketing if you do all of this and the game still doesn't become successful, well, that's just tough luck. I've worked on another game for over a year with very little patronage and relatively decent ratings so that doesn't bother me much but comparing the two games, Lord of Imagination is definitely looking more optimistic, especially since I have a lot more freedom to tell the story I want to tell here whereas there I was pretty much forced to confine to the imagination of the other developer.

 

[ptahn]

Yeah, you're right. I see your post now, it's dated February 11th. I did reply to it but it doesn't seem to tell me the exact date. So yeah, seems I replied to it after you discontinued your pledge.
As for the games that get discontinued, well, Sturgeon's adage applies here. 90 percent of all games here are bad. Thus it stands to reason that 90 percent of NTR games are bad as well NTR game that does deserve more patrons as of now. I think you'll have a hard time naming an. The problem with that is there are 10 percent of games that do deserve more patrons and with a bit of luck and perseverance, they do get what they deserve. Tyrant is one example there. Another example, and one of my favorite H-games, Seeds of Chaos is making a decent sum as well. So in my view, the key is to keep delivering updates with consistent quality and a more or less consistent development cycle along with some good marketing if you do all of this and the game still doesn't become successful, well, that's just tough luck. I've worked on another game for over a year with very little patronage and relatively decent ratings so that doesn't bother me much but comparing the two games, Lord of Imagination is definitely looking more optimistic, especially since I have a lot more freedom to tell the story I want to tell here whereas there I was pretty much forced to confine to the imagination of the other developer.

I'm not familiar with SoC. The Tyrant has been out for more than two and a half years and makes less than $2500/month. Radiant, which came out stressing that it does not and never would contain NTR has been out six weeks makes over $5700/month. WVM has been out a little over eight months makes almost $15,000/month. The only male character of note (other than MC) is gay. The game is as far from an NTR game as possible while still have more than one male character.

I just looked up SoC, yes it makes a decent sum. It's been out for over 3 years and is still making less than WVM. SoC will probably be surpassed by Radiant when it has it's first update. You are undoubtedly correct that 10% of games here are good. My contention is that the 10% of good non-NTR games are making more money that the 10% of good NTR games.

I'm not sure why you are arguing with me. Remember this all started with me saying that YOU WERE RIGHT in wanting to create a non-NTR game. Is it now your belief that your initial instinct was wrong?

Reviews ratings can be deceiving. A five star review that gets one "like" has the same weight as a one star review that gets twenty "likes."

 

[Sihil]

I'm not familiar with SoC. The Tyrant has been out for more than two and a half years and makes less than $2500/month. Radiant, which came out stressing that it does not and never would contain NTR has been out six weeks makes over $5700/month. WVM has been out a little over eight months makes almost $15,000/month. The only male character of note (other than MC) is gay. The game is as far from an NTR game as possible while still have more than one male character.

I just looked up SoC, yes it makes a decent sum. It's been out for over 3 years and is still making less than WVM. SoC will probably be surpassed by Radiant when it has it's first update. You are undoubtedly correct that 10% of games here are good. My contention is that the 10% of good non-NTR games are making more money that the 10% of good NTR games.

I'm not sure why you are arguing with me. Remember this all started with me saying that YOU WERE RIGHT in wanting to create a non-NTR game. Is it now your belief that your initial instinct was wrong?

Reviews ratings can be deceiving. A five star review that gets one "like" has the same weight as a one star review that gets twenty "likes."

Eh, I realized I'm arguing with you for no particular reason. I never really disagreed with the fact that good NTR games make less money than good non-NTR games, just that good NTR games are harder to find than a good non-NTR game, even considering the smaller sample size.
As for the review system, that's true of course which is why it is necessary to judge a game by its overall rating, not just one review.

 

[ptahn]

Eh, I realized I'm arguing with you for no particular reason. I never really disagreed with the fact that good NTR games make less money than good non-NTR games, just that good NTR games are harder to find than a good non-NTR game, even considering the smaller sample size.
As for the review system, that's true of course which is why it is necessary to judge a game by its overall rating, not just one review.

They are harder to find because they make less money. But you missed my point about the review system. In the review system a review that gets more "likes" meaning more people agree with that review counts the same as a review with no "likes" which may mean that no one is in agreement. I tend not to go by the overall rating. Instead I read the reviews and make my determination. That way I can give more weight to a well thought out review than to one that just says "the Mom was hot."

No one enjoys a good discussion more than me. I just found it curious that the point I was making was that your instincts in this case were better than AG's and you were taking the opposing viewpoint.

 

[Sihil]

They are harder to find because they make less money. But you missed my point about the review system. In the review system a review that gets more "likes" meaning more people agree with that review counts the same as a review with no "likes" which may mean that no one is in agreement. I tend not to go by the overall rating. Instead I read the reviews and make my determination. That way I can give more weight to a well thought out review than to one that just says "the Mom was hot."

No one enjoys a good discussion more than me. I just found it curious that the point I was making was that your instincts in this case were better than AG's and you were taking the opposing viewpoint.

Let's sum everything up to get a good idea of what each of us is saying. The core of our disagreement lies within the causation of these two events. You were saying that good NTR games are hard to find because they don't make money and I am saying NTR games don't make money because good ones are hard to find or rather, good ones rarely exist. Now to disprove your hypothesis what I said was that there are at least two games that exist that are making a considerable sum. To which your rebuttal was that there are at least two more games that are making more than the two games I suggested. But here's the thing: I never said that NTR games are making good money relative to non-NTR games, merely that the NTR games that are good get recognized eventually. You might argue that it took these games years to get recognized but that's not necessarily true, both of these games got recognized fairly early on, the only problem with Tyrant particularly was that it went without an update for multiple months and still does and with seeds of chaos, it would seem to me that 2-d games generally have a lower ceiling as compared to the 3-d games in terms of earning (with an obvious exception of summertime saga.)

As for the review part, you're broadly right; a review that has more people agreeing with it should be weighed more than the one that has fewer people agreeing with. That's well and good. What I am saying is, supposing a game "deserves" to have three and a half stars objectively, and say, 10 people review the game then the average of these 10 people's rating will be closer to the "true" rating of the game than any individual's rating. Generally speaking, the bigger the sample size the more accurate the rating by a rule in probability called Laplace's law of succession.

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explains my point in detail.

I'm glad to find someone who enjoys a healthy debate for the sake of it. Also, AG wasn't necessarily against the idea as much as he simply wanted me to have a free reign with the plot of the story, I certainly didn't want to write an NTR only game as I joined this game for the mind control and corruption and to a lesser degree, incest.

 

[ptahn]

Let's sum everything up to get a good idea of what each of us is saying. The core of our disagreement lies within the causation of these two events. You were saying that good NTR games are hard to find because they don't make money and I am saying NTR games don't make money because good ones are hard to find or rather, good ones rarely exist. Now to disprove your hypothesis what I said was that there are at least two games that exist that are making a considerable sum. To which your rebuttal was that there are at least two more games that are making more than the two games I suggested. But here's the thing: I never said that NTR games are making good money relative to non-NTR games, merely that the NTR games that are good get recognized eventually. You might argue that it took these games years to get recognized but that's not necessarily true, both of these games got recognized fairly early on, the only problem with Tyrant particularly was that it went without an update for multiple months and still does and with seeds of chaos, it would seem to me that 2-d games generally have a lower ceiling as compared to the 3-d games in terms of earning (with an obvious exception of summertime saga.)

As for the review part, you're broadly right; a review that has more people agreeing with it should be weighed more than the one that has fewer people agreeing with. That's well and good. What I am saying is, supposing a game "deserves" to have three and a half stars objectively, and say, 10 people review the game then the average of these 10 people's rating will be closer to the "true" rating of the game than any individual's rating. Generally speaking, the bigger the sample size the more accurate the rating by a rule in probability called Laplace's law of succession.

You must be registered to see the links

explains my point in detail.

I'm glad to find someone who enjoys a healthy debate for the sake of it. Also, AG wasn't necessarily against the idea as much as he simply wanted me to have a free reign with the plot of the story, I certainly didn't want to write an NTR only game as I joined this game for the mind control and corruption and to a lesser degree, incest.

I'm well aware of the role of sample size in increasing the accuracy of statistics. My point is that a if a game gets a review of 5 stars and no "likes" and a review of 1 star with 20 "likes", it does not seem right to say its rating is 3 stars.

What we see here is the free market in action. Since the demand for non-NTR games is higher, that is what is offered. If NTR games could make as much money, there would be more such games. The developers that are making the most money, the ones that have 1000's of patrons, don't have NTR games. A game that has both paths tend to fall between the two because their focus is not solely on one or the other. While there are players that will play both paths, those that are really passionate about this particular topic will only play one or the other. That means you are spending some of your time creating content that some of your players will never see.

 

[Jstforme]

To NTR, or not to NTR...the eternal question.
I have to agree though, go one direction or the other. You're never going to make the NTR crowd happy unless you make the wife/girlfriend a drooling mindless slut/whore, ready to open her legs or drop to her knees for literally anything that breaths. Plus most of "that" crowd can be quite toxic. I'd stay away from it, but that's just me.

 

[Sihil]

To NTR, or not to NTR...the eternal question.
I have to agree though, go one direction or the other. You're never going to make the NTR crowd happy unless you make the wife/girlfriend a drooling mindless slut/whore, ready to open her legs or drop to her knees for literally anything that breaths. Plus most of "that" crowd can be quite toxic. I'd stay away from it, but that's just me.

If I'd had the reigns from the beginning, I wouldn't have touched NTR with a ten-foot pole, if only to avoid the inevitable shitstorm it brings. But AG didn't know that so here we are. But contrary to your experience, we've had more people from the non-NTR camp causing more of a ruckus, there have been people who threatened to report the game for sexual violence unless we removed NTR. Not to imply the NTR side has been completely good. That being said, we can't just abandon NTR now as most of the patrons we have right now supported the game because of it.

 

[RedPillBlues]

If I'd had the reigns from the beginning, I wouldn't have touched NTR with a ten-foot pole, if only to avoid the inevitable shitstorm it brings. But AG didn't know that so here we are.

So you're telling me that AG had no idea that a forced rape scene of the MC's mother would make players upset .That's unbelievable.

 

[Sihil]

So you're telling me that AG had no idea that a forced rape scene of the MC's mother would make players upset .That's unbelievable.

AG doesn't really concern himself much with a story much but yeah, I'm sure he knew it would "make people upset" but two sides throwing shit at each other and both of them throwing shit at the developer is not what being upset means and since the previous writer left pretty soon so he had to face most of the criticisms alone, a lot of which were not very kind and some of them were not even criticisms, just pointless threats and insults.
Edit: you should've seen this thread before the mods decided to step in.

 

[Jstforme]

we've had more people from the non-NTR camp causing more of a ruckus, there have been people who threatened to report the game for sexual violence unless we removed NTR.

You're right, I started thinking about that after I posted. The non NTR crowd is just as toxic, if not more so. For whatever reason, too many people can't distinguish a pixiled story from real life. Or just can't grasp the concept that if you don't like what the story contains, then don't play it.

 

[ptahn]

If I'd had the reigns from the beginning, I wouldn't have touched NTR with a ten-foot pole, if only to avoid the inevitable shitstorm it brings. But AG didn't know that so here we are. But contrary to your experience, we've had more people from the non-NTR camp causing more of a ruckus, there have been people who threatened to report the game for sexual violence unless we removed NTR. Not to imply the NTR side has been completely good. That being said, we can't just abandon NTR now as most of the patrons we have right now supported the game because of it.

And we are back to what got me into this conversation. Your game came out in September. Even with the early issues, you should have more than 74 patrons, especially with all the attention these postings should have brought to your game. If you are just trying to make a portion of those 74 people happy (as some would still be happy or even happier without the NTR content), you will likely never have the numbers you could have without it.

As far as the non-NTR people causing problems, I don't know anything about that. In the forums what I see is NTR people attacking non-NTR people and non-NTR people attacking content. Are you sure the issue wasn't the sexual violence and not the NTR itself? If I had played this game when it had the unavoidable rape of the mother, I would have walked away from it as well. I always speak out against the violence against women in these games. It often seems to me that some developers just don't like women.

I'm not asking you to change your game, I'm just involved in an academic conversation. Personally, if it were me, I'd not change what was already in the game; I'd just quickly phase it out. That is what Dark Silver did. His current game is rated 2.5 stars, but he's got close to 2000 patrons.

 

[ptahn]

You're right, I started thinking about that after I posted. The non NTR crowd is just as toxic, if not more so. For whatever reason, too many people can't distinguish a pixiled story from real life. Or just can't grasp the concept that if you don't like what the story contains, then don't play it.

Not more so. Go to any game that has NTR in it. Find a post from some one asking if the NTR is avoidable. Read the ensuing comments from the NTR crowd.

 

[ptahn]

You know, I have noticed something that is strange. Sihil talks about the support he gets from the NTR people and that is why he can't make a change in this story. I have NEVER been in an NTR debate where the NTR crowd is absolutely silent. Where are they now? Maybe the reason the game has so few patrons is because they are not playing the game. When was the last pro-NTR post in this thread?

 

[Larry2000]

I'll say this about the whole thing. Personally, if you put NTR into a game, it makes me unhappy. I tend to direct feelings onto characters. Because I'm generally a very empathetic person and because I like being taken into a story. Most of the time the story is garbage and I can measure my expectations. However, if you introduce something into the mix (like NTR or Rape) that I wasn't expecting, while my feelings are still invested, it hurts a lot. It's a trauma that you carry with you for some time. It's a short lived one, and one that doesn't leave a lasting scar, but when you see it again, you react with revulsion, not dislike. I didn't play this at it's launched state, but I would have been livid if that scene had popped up into my visage.

People can tell many stories in many different ways, but we're all here (F95Zone) generally for a good time. Yet, NTR for a lot of people gives us a hard time. It's not about being a "snowflake" it's about being honest. People feel how they feel, and when they are hurt they may attack back or try to come to terms with the situation. I've been in the latter camp trying to rid the filthiness of the NTR out of the back of my mind. Personally, I don't have any ill will to those that enjoy that, but i do to the people that don't understand and talk down to people that feel like I do. If you're spending time attacking people on here, where we are supposed to be looking for things to get off on, I can't imagine what kind of a human being you are with people in real life. Or maybe the anonymity makes scared boys grow toxic hairs on their chest.

All in all, If you go with NTR go hard or not at all. There are hardly any points in-between. Rarely can someone get something so dark as NTR/Rape and mix it with a light/harem game. Unless you are the one causing it of course. The complex and opposite natures contradict each other.

To rap it up, Dev/Writer, if I had it my way, I'd ask you to remove it, and move on with the game as I like it, NTR free. However, I agree with you that people expect it so you need to listen to them or else you'll also feel their toxic ire. In a way, you're screwed. I believe there is NO way to do them both justice, but if I'm being honest, I hope you can do it. And when that day comes, I'll be right there with you.

 

[RedPillBlues]

All in all, If you go with NTR go hard or not at all. There are hardly any points in-between. Rarely can someone get something so dark as NTR/Rape and mix it with a light/harem game. Unless you are the one causing it of course. The complex and opposite natures contradict each other.

That's kinda honestly how I feel. I actually wish there were more full on NTR games that completely focus on the fetish and just removed the word avoidable from it. I think that would be even better for the NTR crowd as I've seen a few people complain that the games telling you a up coming scene is NTR ruins it. In turn I also wish that these 50/50 games would become less. Getting invested into a game just to find out that every other update has nothing in it you'll like sucks.

This is getting pretty off topic tho

 

[Sihil]

And we are back to what got me into this conversation. Your game came out in September. Even with the early issues, you should have more than 74 patrons, especially with all the attention these postings should have brought to your game. If you are just trying to make a portion of those 74 people happy (as some would still be happy or even happier without the NTR content), you will likely never have the numbers you could have without it.

As far as the non-NTR people causing problems, I don't know anything about that. In the forums what I see is NTR people attacking non-NTR people and non-NTR people attacking content. Are you sure the issue wasn't the sexual violence and not the NTR itself? If I had played this game when it had the unavoidable rape of the mother, I would have walked away from it as well. I always speak out against the violence against women in these games. It often seems to me that some developers just don't like women.

I'm not asking you to change your game, I'm just involved in an academic conversation. Personally, if it were me, I'd not change what was already in the game; I'd just quickly phase it out. That is what Dark Silver did. His current game is rated 2.5 stars, but he's got close to 2000 patrons.

Well, it's hard to tell how many patrons a game "deserves." Right now, our game has its problems with the problem with the patch, the logical inconsistencies, few bugs here and there, and a few scenes transitioning too jarringly, before we fix these problems the promotion of the game will be doable. Till then most people won't even know that the game exists. Another problem is the lack of animations. When we fix all of these (which should be by next month) I can actually focus a bit more on marketing. That being said, the biggest reason we don't have a ton of patrons is that right now, most people have no reason to trust us to deliver relatively tight scheduled updates. But even accounting that, the game is actually not doing terrible for its first few releases. Sure, you could name a few games that are doing way better but most of the games here right now are doing worse. Also, I should be clear, when I say we'll not remove NTR because most of the patrons right now support NTR, it's not a business decision, it's simply that we don't want the people who've supported the game the longest to feel betrayed. Essentially, we don't want to sell out our most loyal fanbase. Even if one day, the patrons grow to have an opinion against NTR and decide to vote it out, we'll at least give the path a somewhat satisfying and final ending.

And dude, there are a ton of games here that have sexual violence, that isn't the problem. The people commented things like "Remove NTR or I'll report the game for sexual violence." not "I'll report the game for sexual violence." We made an announcement few days ago about Corona and staying safe, it had nothing to do with the game itself and someone commented "Still a slimy NTR game." These are the kind of things annoy me about a selected few people who are in the non-NTR crowd.

You know, I have noticed something that is strange. Sihil talks about the support he gets from the NTR people and that is why he can't make a change in this story. I have NEVER been in an NTR debate where the NTR crowd is absolutely silent. Where are they now? Maybe the reason the game has so few patrons is because they are not playing the game. When was the last pro-NTR post in this thread?

Well, f95zone is ultimately a pirate site, rarely does it ever happen that someone supports the game after finding it here, not to imply it doesn't happen at all. The support I am talking about comes in the game's discord channel. Only today, we received a supportive message there from a non-patron. I can't conclusively say that he/she is for or against NTR but he/she did complain about the "anti-NTR" people.

I'll say this about the whole thing. Personally, if you put NTR into a game, it makes me unhappy. I tend to direct feelings onto characters. Because I'm generally a very empathetic person and because I like being taken into a story. Most of the time the story is garbage and I can measure my expectations. However, if you introduce something into the mix (like NTR or Rape) that I wasn't expecting, while my feelings are still invested, it hurts a lot. It's a trauma that you carry with you for some time. It's a short lived one, and one that doesn't leave a lasting scar, but when you see it again, you react with revulsion, not dislike. I didn't play this at it's launched state, but I would have been livid if that scene had popped up into my visage.

People can tell many stories in many different ways, but we're all here (F95Zone) generally for a good time. Yet, NTR for a lot of people gives us a hard time. It's not about being a "snowflake" it's about being honest. People feel how they feel, and when they are hurt they may attack back or try to come to terms with the situation. I've been in the latter camp trying to rid the filthiness of the NTR out of the back of my mind. Personally, I don't have any ill will to those that enjoy that, but i do to the people that don't understand and talk down to people that feel like I do. If you're spending time attacking people on here, where we are supposed to be looking for things to get off on, I can't imagine what kind of a human being you are with people in real life. Or maybe the anonymity makes scared boys grow toxic hairs on their chest.

All in all, If you go with NTR go hard or not at all. There are hardly any points in-between. Rarely can someone get something so dark as NTR/Rape and mix it with a light/harem game. Unless you are the one causing it of course. The complex and opposite natures contradict each other.

To rap it up, Dev/Writer, if I had it my way, I'd ask you to remove it, and move on with the game as I like it, NTR free. However, I agree with you that people expect it so you need to listen to them or else you'll also feel their toxic ire. In a way, you're screwed. I believe there is NO way to do them both justice, but if I'm being honest, I hope you can do it. And when that day comes, I'll be right there with you.

I've said this before here, I get why the people were upset when the game first came out. As far as I know, the game not only had unavoidable NTR but the writer didn't tag it with the NTR tag. The people flipped out for an understandable reason. It's everything that happened on the Patreon page that gets me more annoyed.
As for the tone of the game, our game has had a darker tone from the beginning so that doesn't necessarily apply to us. But yes, I do agree that if NTR exists in a game, people should know what they are getting into. And I personally don't see the appeal of going all-out NTR game as a writer for a multitude of reasons.

 

[ptahn]

Well, f95zone is ultimately a pirate site, rarely does it ever happen that someone supports the game after finding it here, not to imply it doesn't happen at all. The support I am talking about comes in the game's discord channel. Only today, we received a supportive message there from a non-patron. I can't conclusively say that he/she is for or against NTR but he/she did complain about the "anti-NTR" people.

I can't disagree with this more. Where do you think supporters find these games? At any one time, I support 15-16 games? I found all of them here. Try taking a poll of your current supporters, I imagine the majority of them discovered your game through this site. As far as to what people have said to you through Patreon or Discord, obviously I am not privy to that. As I said, I can only speak to what people have posted in Fzone discussion groups. Yes, there are a ton of stories with sexual violence here. I find it disappointing. In this particular case the NTR in the game was in the form of sexual violence. Not having read the comments I could see how someone could find the two synonymous in this case. I don't condone the attempted blackmail of a developer to control content. What I was saying that in my experience, NTR fans are less civil than non-NTR fans in the discussion groups on this site. Perhaps you have come up with a solution to this whole discussion. Why don't you poll your patrons to see how they would feel about discontinuing the NTR path so you can focus on the non-NTR path? Originally I supported the game just because the NTR was made optional. It could be that more patrons than you know decided to support the game because of the non-NTR path. I'm not confident that the NTR path would lose since the game was first an NTR game and then an NTR game with an avoidable scene, but it would be interesting to find out.

 

[Sihil]

I can't disagree with this more. Where do you think supporters find these games? At any one time, I support 15-16 games? I found all of them here. Try taking a poll of your current supporters, I imagine the majority of them discovered your game through this site. As far as to what people have said to you through Patreon or Discord, obviously I am not privy to that. As I said, I can only speak to what people have posted in Fzone discussion groups. Yes, there are a ton of stories with sexual violence here. I find it disappointing. In this particular case the NTR in the game was in the form of sexual violence. Not having read the comments I could see how someone could find the two synonymous in this case. I don't condone the attempted blackmail of a developer to control content. What I was saying that in my experience, NTR fans are less civil than non-NTR fans in the discussion groups on this site. Perhaps you have come up with a solution to this whole discussion. Why don't you poll your patrons to see how they would feel about discontinuing the NTR path so you can focus on the non-NTR path? Originally I supported the game just because the NTR was made optional. It could be that more patrons than you know decided to support the game because of the non-NTR path. I'm not confident that the NTR path would lose since the game was first an NTR game and then an NTR game with an avoidable scene, but it would be interesting to find out.

I can confidently say that you're wrong in that regard. The previous game I had worked with had most of the traffic to Patreon come from sites like Deviantart and Pixiv, then some of it came from Reddit and fewer still came from google searches. Contribution of f95 to the traffic was almost negligible. I'll have to assume only a tiny percentage of that traffic still contributed in the patronage.
As for your experience, well, I can't really debate that. All I am saying is that we've encountered more toxic non-NTR fans than NTR fans.
And yeah, this is something I've been meaning to do for a long time. Though I don't want to do something as on the nose yet. We'll soon be adding animations in the game. One animation every month until we hit a Patreon goal. Which scenes will be animated will be chosen by the patrons. So within a month or two, I'll have a pretty good idea of which fetish the patrons favor.

 

[ptahn]

I can confidently say that you're wrong in that regard. The previous game I had worked with had most of the traffic to Patreon come from sites like Deviantart and Pixiv, then some of it came from Reddit and fewer still came from google searches. Contribution of f95 to the traffic was almost negligible. I'll have to assume only a tiny percentage of that traffic still contributed in the patronage.
As for your experience, well, I can't really debate that. All I am saying is that we've encountered more toxic non-NTR fans than NTR fans.
And yeah, this is something I've been meaning to do for a long time. Though I don't want to do something as on the nose yet. We'll soon be adding animations in the game. One animation every month until we hit a Patreon goal. Which scenes will be animated will be chosen by the patrons. So within a month or two, I'll have a pretty good idea of which fetish the patrons favor.

Of course you have had more issues with non-NTR fans since for the longest time you had an NTR game. Even when the non-NTR path was added and for some time afterwards you had an NTR game with some avoidable scenes.

I have stated in many discussions groups on Fzone about the contribution this site makes to get developers patrons. I have had this conversation with the developers themselves. You are the first one ever to deny my claim. Perhaps your lack of support from this site has to do more with the lack of updates. Your game is not discussed in other forums so the only times players hear about it is when it appears in Latest Updates or when you get some buzz in What's New because of all the discussion. As far as your last game (and I am not trying to be rude), perhaps one of the reasons it failed was because it was not getting sponsors from this site. In any case, why would developers (including you) engage in discussions here if the site was meaningless?

If you do a poll about NTR content in your game, I would suggest not only having "Keep" or "Lose" choices, but also a "Don't Care" option.