VN Ren'Py Abandoned Love and Submission [v0.08] [veqvil]

[Aprilsun]

well why attack any fetish full stop? especially if it's optional!

It's pointless because there won't be any NTR in this game. I suggest you try "The Tyrant" if NTR is your thing.

 

[Prokopije]

If all fetishes are optional there is no reason why they should not be included. Either is it NTR or incest or beasts, dendrophilia or raisins. All will be happy and everything will be fine. More people will play game, some of them will provide funds and that's it. So game can only benefit from adding new fetish.

 

[gestved]

well the only raisins i like are the chocolate covered raisins.

raisins ruin everything they are onto or into

 

[dunloprobert]

It's pointless because there won't be any NTR in this game. I suggest you try "The Tyrant" if NTR is your thing.

yeah i know it's not in this game and i do play the tyrant, what i don't get is how some people can be so anti one fetish even if it is optional, yet say nothing about another fetish that is not optional even if it is avoidable within the game! do people really get off on having fictional sex with their family members so much? yet feel so compelled to moan about other fictional characters having sex with those same fictional family characters, especially if it's optional? it truly begs belief that some people are so selfish that they would begrudge other players the option of indulging in their fictional fetishes just because they don't like them! if a dev does not want it then fine, but when people moan about it straight out, then that's when the bickerring starts! at the end of the day these are just games, and the more people that can enjoy them then the better and if a dev has foresight to say "yes i am covering these fetishes, but this fetish and/or this fetish will be optional, because i know that not everyone likes this fetish!" then more people should be able to play and enjoy more games!

 

[dunloprobert]

raisins ruin everything they are onto or into

well chocolate makes most things taste better including raisins.

 

[gestved]

well chocolate makes most things taste better including raisins.

not even chocolate, dulce de leche, ice cream or lemon pie can save a raisin

it's automatically spoiled foverer

 

[bottomfeeder]

Breaking away from the NTR babble these insecure children like spamming on this site...

@veqvil DUDE...ETA on update...I wanna nut. It's not good to store

 

[ShadowManNor]

You are right on the money when you say it is really important those characteristics are being fleshed out by the developer. Nobody is just something for no reason, we are all shaped by our lives in all kinds of ways and all our behavior/experience has a deep foundation somewhere else. It could be really interesting and rewarding to get to see why Amy is the way she is. What has happened to her in the 18-ish years she spend on earth? What events have played a key part in her thinking/behavior? Where are the roots of her insecurities, how does she perceive herself, how does she perceive the world/others? What motivates her to get out of bed in the morning and why is she in love with the MC? The exploration of these things make the difference between a bland superficial character who only seems to exist to play a role in the life of the protag and a character with realness and depth and a life of her own that we as players can relate to and feel a connection with. Being able to relate to others is very import in movies/books/porn (maybe in porn most of all) and a good writer can make us connect even with the kind of people we would normally hate since they can show us deep down we are all not that different.

I do not mean veqvil should spend his time making all kinds of flashbacks. What I mean is the past lives on in the present. So it is only natural pieces of the past will unfold themselves during present events. Right now I feel like some of the characters in the game are a bit bland and do not really act in a natural way at least that's how I experience it. If veqvil would be able to make the past shine through more in the events and be better in shining some light on who they are on a deeper level than the surface I feel like that would really elevate the game. It is like when you are watching a movie with a bad actor you see the actor playing a certain role but when you watch a movie with a good actor you really forget the actor altogether and it is like he really has become the role he is playing. I would like to see the characters in adult games as real people, to forget they are just written and that can only happen when they are written as real people with a real history and realistic motivations so their behavior makes sense.

Good writing is the difference between standing out or just showing something you have seen a million times already. By all means, Im not saying it should be walls of text (no really, I know what you think but I would not like that), as just massive exposition dumps would not be good writing. Show, dont tell. And since this is a video game, let us explore it though ours interactions with the character though the mechanics of the game. To put it both figuratively and literally, let us push buttons and see what happens. Its not about hearing about someones life story, but learning to know them as people and create memories with them. Instead of the "remember back when something something" as these games do to often when they want to build relationships, insted of letting the players form their own and seeing the character as an interesting person to spend time with. Why is it so much complaining about blue balling in games, Im not saying this is the only reason, but to often being with a character is just plain boring if its not on its way to sex. Sexual tension is the only thing they have to keep things going between/before the sex scenes, and often that is not as good as well. "Wow, my mom is so hot in that outfit," Its not interesting dialog, dosnt make you learn anything about the character, dosent let the player do anything, it takes away power from the player (as the MC decides what he things without player input) and remove the focus from the renders. Want the MC to think the mom is hot? Show it to me, and make me think/feel it and use the dialog space for something more interesting.

You could easily go though the character as they go though the motions with the normal tropes. Hello, I am the lonely mom who need some love, this is so wrong but it makes me feel alive. Hi I am the inexperienced sister with a crush for you, you are all I want but can never be so it makes me reserved. I am the dirty family friend that is open minded and down for dirty things. I am the ice queen that will call you a pervert but need to be put in my place. And I guess if you are watching a 20 min clip where you just skip to the sex anyways it is not required to be more. But unless this game is going to be a marathon of fucks (which is not the impression I have gotten) it will need to have something to keep our interest before and after. Something that makes us care about them insted of just thinking about the character as the hot one with the boobs. Since veq have said that all sex is optional aka you can play it just for the story, he has given himself the right challenge for this situation: the game needs to be interesting without any sex at all. Hold your horses, I know what you are thinking. Im not saying the sex isnt important and shouldn't be a driving force. But if you make a game with boring parts that only works cause the hope of sex later, then its not an interesting game. It works for that 20 min movie or a flash clicker. But if you want a game that spans over hours, that you want the player to invest into and replay the different routes, then you will need some meat beside the one between the MCs legs. And here the game definitively have room to... grow. Non of these things are easy. It require good and well paced writing. Interesting character that you get to explore and interact with though well made game mechanics and not read like they where an encyclopedia. The devil can be in the details, but also need to work together and be interesting from a birds eye perspective. If all these parts are crafted well, then we wont think about them as the hot mom, the virgin(like) sister and the ex that want you back, but insted Carol, Amy and Becky. Characters we would be excited about, care about, want to learn more about and like to spend time with. As well as we could experience fandom #team wars so fierce that we will miss the days of NTR discussion, but probably more friendly since we also would have an understanding about what others like in the other characters, as we will have had some good times with them as well.

"But @ShadowManNor ," I hear you say. "Thats an unreasonable high standard to have." Yeah it is. Now what are you going to do about it? Cause I dont plan to change. Im not here for something sub average, Im here for a game to be the best it can be. Renders, story, mechanics, characters and more. Starting to sweat yet @veqvil ? Look on the bright side, if I didnt see potensial here, I wouldn't be sitting here writing this. But potensial is the easy part, it need to be grown, harvested and executed right. Not sure that include a guy writing long walls of text, but you guys will be stuck with me ether way.

@veqvil DUDE...ETA on update...I wanna nut. It's not good to store

Pretty sure @veqvil is going to wait almost until the update is done before the announces something. As he pulled the trigger a bit early last time Im sure he is not going to empty his load, prematurely so to speak.

 

[Mwanted]

I must say personally i don't want the harem scenario

The same. It would be incredibly boring and a lot of wasted potential for this project. What really interests me of the game is the "manipulation" part of it, but how fun\interesting it is going to be depends on what Veqvil (the perverted mind of Veqvil ) is gonna come up with

 

[dunloprobert]

i believe that the more options and that includes fetishes that a player gets in a game, as long as those options/fetishes are followed through and not abandoned, then the better the game can be! any dev doing this opens his/her game up to more people and will almost certainly gain more followers and potential financial backing!

 

[Paprika]

I wonder if I can take the love, lust route with mom and sis at the same time or if I have to choose one?
Also, since I'm an incest fan they are the most important girls to me, but I wouldn't mind to play the love or lust route with the other girls either.
I like the seduction path, not suppress the girls' will with mind control or submission; that would be like fucking a doll: beutiful outside but soulless.

 

[ShadowManNor]

I wonder if I can take the love, lust route with mom and sis at the same time or if I have to choose one?
Also, since I'm an incest fan they are the most important girls to me, but I wouldn't mind to play the love or lust route with the other girls either.
I like the seduction path, not suppress the girls' will with mind control or submission; that would be like fucking a doll: beutiful outside and soulless.

Veq have been clear that he dont want the submission rute to just be the boring mind control where you remove the persons soul. So I suspect it will be more a power play to make them obey you but still have a relationship with a person.
Edit: When it come to the part if you can have both the sister and mother. Im pretty sure you can, but it will probably be harder to achive than just having one of them, and will open up the door for new potential conflicts.

 

[n0b0dy]

I like the seduction path, not suppress the girls' will with submission; that would be like fucking a doll: beutiful outside and soulless.

Submission does not mean somebodies mind gets repressed if it happens from their own will, they choose to submit so they still have their own personalities, mind, free will and 'souls'.

 

[Paprika]

I prefer love or lust to any kind of force upon the girls, since i like the seduction game.
It seems also that I have to refuse Becky in order to not screw the relationship with mom and sis; and the consequence of rejecting Becky seems to be her spiraling down. I wouldn't like to be mean to her and romance her too.penedeyewink: After all, why are all the girls in the game if it's not for your enjoyment? (rhetoric question)

 

[Pang]

Just found this game. For an early build, it's looking very good. I enjoyed the content so far very much.

 

[veqvil]

Well done veqvil, if the NTR discussion comes up in your thread it means people really like your game and are truly commited to it. I don't really like seeing NTR either, but when a game is good and it makes sense in the script it doesn't bother me that much. Plus you can choose which route you are going to take which makes the game probably taking a bit longer to develop, but it gives more to the players as you feel more like you are in control.

The christmas special was also a nice present. I'm really looking forward to how the story about his dad will develop, my guess is the incestious dad and daughter have something to do with it.
So far this game has great potential and already a big fanbase so I hope you will be able to do with it what you had thought of.

Best of luck!

Thank you for your feedback! Your totally right, having people discuss about my game feels humbling XD

It depends on her background but I assume it's mostly a trope of innocent younger sister. Masturbation is common and accepted by western society tho dildo isn't as common in many countries as it would seem. Still, it's just my personal preference to keep them untainted. I'm a bit of a virgin fetishist so I usually lose my interest in a game if there is none. It might be not very likely when it comes to the hotties nowadays but it's not like adult games are overly realistic. It's not like any dude would be able to seduce his hot sister so virgins aren't exactly that far from reality (I knew a couple of hot ones >20). Ofc DMD level of cluelesness is pretty damn unrealistic and unlikely

I do have a virgin fetish myself XD

I do not mind when a game bends the rules of reality a bit to tell an interesting or fun story but for me it is always a shame when I perceive the characters as unbelievably dumb and can not really place their behavior as coming from a place of intelligence. 'Stupid' women are not attractive to me at all so I guess you could say I have an intelligence fetish
I don' t have the virgin fetish myself but I guess I sort of understand why people find it arousing to be the 'first one' for a girl and why they want them to be in the dark about sex. It is as far I can tell just hard to write a character in a way they are 'naive' and 'innocent' without making them a bit stupid also so that's probably why I don't like it. But thank you for sharing your perspective, I think I understand better now why creators choose to portray characters in that way!

Totally agree with this one, "stupid women" is something I try to avoid, being naive and insecure does put across "stupidity" but with e.g. Amy I try to show her as a simply inexperienced person who is naive trough being innocent (she doesn't suspect one of having more "dirty" motives as she doesn't know that would be a thing XD). She does have dirty fantasies though but she is ashamed of having those towards her own brother.

It is refreshing to see that. As much as I like virgins they rarely tend to be well written in these games. It is just, she is young aka no sexual experience or she would never want to do anything sexual without the MC. And then its nothing more to it or fleshed out. It definitely can be pulled of, but it need to be fleshed out insted of an expected standard.

Spoiler: Spoiler for 0.3 as well as some thoughts on the character

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Not sure if this spoiler is needed now but since it is so many new people here I added it.


Here I though NTR was going to be the flame war but it seems like raisins will be the real battleground. I guess those households just like to see people in pain. Now that some heavy sadism.


I guess there is rape and not really rape, rape. Kind of like how jumping on thing with Mario is not really killing. So people who enjoy mind control, blackmail or know that the victim secretly enjoy it ect, dont really see it as rape, and since the only consequence is that the victim might be a little mad at the MC or call the MC a pervert, before they enjoy it. So no harm done right?

There is always someone who have an opinion about what you do if it dosnt fall with the perceived normality of the majority. Whether it is your fantasy, what kind of sexual activity consenting adults do or your taste in music. If you are not like them, it must be something wrong with you and your kind, cause they cant be wrong.

Can't wait to get in voice chat with you guys and talk about stuff like that! I'm in a hurry right now so I can't say too much for now, gonna reply to many more comments tomorrow!

 

[veqvil]

Breaking away from the NTR babble these insecure children like spamming on this site...

@veqvil DUDE...ETA on update...I wanna nut. It's not good to store

That gif though XD

Good writing is the difference between standing out or just showing something you have seen a million times already. By all means, Im not saying it should be walls of text (no really, I know what you think but I would not like that), as just massive exposition dumps would not be good writing. Show, dont tell. And since this is a video game, let us explore it though ours interactions with the character though the mechanics of the game. To put it both figuratively and literally, let us push buttons and see what happens. Its not about hearing about someones life story, but learning to know them as people and create memories with them. Instead of the "remember back when something something" as these games do to often when they want to build relationships, insted of letting the players form their own and seeing the character as an interesting person to spend time with. Why is it so much complaining about blue balling in games, Im not saying this is the only reason, but to often being with a character is just plain boring if its not on its way to sex. Sexual tension is the only thing they have to keep things going between/before the sex scenes, and often that is not as good as well. "Wow, my mom is so hot in that outfit," Its not interesting dialog, dosnt make you learn anything about the character, dosent let the player do anything, it takes away power from the player (as the MC decides what he things without player input) and remove the focus from the renders. Want the MC to think the mom is hot? Show it to me, and make me think/feel it and use the dialog space for something more interesting.

You could easily go though the character as they go though the motions with the normal tropes. Hello, I am the lonely mom who need some love, this is so wrong but it makes me feel alive. Hi I am the inexperienced sister with a crush for you, you are all I want but can never be so it makes me reserved. I am the dirty family friend that is open minded and down for dirty things. I am the ice queen that will call you a pervert but need to be put in my place. And I guess if you are watching a 20 min clip where you just skip to the sex anyways it is not required to be more. But unless this game is going to be a marathon of fucks (which is not the impression I have gotten) it will need to have something to keep our interest before and after. Something that makes us care about them insted of just thinking about the character as the hot one with the boobs. Since veq have said that all sex is optional aka you can play it just for the story, he has given himself the right challenge for this situation: the game needs to be interesting without any sex at all. Hold your horses, I know what you are thinking. Im not saying the sex isnt important and shouldn't be a driving force. But if you make a game with boring parts that only works cause the hope of sex later, then its not an interesting game. It works for that 20 min movie or a flash clicker. But if you want a game that spans over hours, that you want the player to invest into and replay the different routes, then you will need some meat beside the one between the MCs legs. And here the game definitively have room to... grow. Non of these things are easy. It require good and well paced writing. Interesting character that you get to explore and interact with though well made game mechanics and not read like they where an encyclopedia. The devil can be in the details, but also need to work together and be interesting from a birds eye perspective. If all these parts are crafted well, then we wont think about them as the hot mom, the virgin(like) sister and the ex that want you back, but insted Carol, Amy and Becky. Characters we would be excited about, care about, want to learn more about and like to spend time with. As well as we could experience fandom #team wars so fierce that we will miss the days of NTR discussion, but probably more friendly since we also would have an understanding about what others like in the other characters, as we will have had some good times with them as well.

"But @ShadowManNor ," I hear you say. "Thats an unreasonable high standard to have." Yeah it is. Now what are you going to do about it? Cause I dont plan to change. Im not here for something sub average, Im here for a game to be the best it can be. Renders, story, mechanics, characters and more. Starting to sweat yet @veqvil ? Look on the bright side, if I didnt see potensial here, I wouldn't be sitting here writing this. But potensial is the easy part, it need to be grown, harvested and executed right. Not sure that include a guy writing long walls of text, but you guys will be stuck with me ether way.


Pretty sure @veqvil is going to wait almost until the update is done before the announces something. As he pulled the trigger a bit early last time Im sure he is not going to empty his load, prematurely so to speak.

You definitely have a portion of my vision written down there, I wanted to create an adult game with real characters, and this requires them to have a depth which is way more interesting than just good looks and fast sex. I find it much more exciting to get close to those characters in a "realistic" way, having their own thoughts motives and intentions. As I said earlier if you just wanted the sex and no fascination about other characters with their own problems, preferences, experience, sociability... a VN is not necessarily your best bet

This, of course, requires a well-written text containing these pieces of information in a natural and less forced way, implemented in dialogue. I agree that this is challenging at least for someone like me xD

Since I started this project I have always been sweating and I will never stop doing so. Whenever I feel like I'm coming closer to my "vision", the more demanding it becomes but that's what makes me ambitious! I'm learning so much with every render I create and every article I read about writing, composing, light, hardware, software etc...

This truly is a journey for me and my brain was never more ready to absorb all of it

Having brilliant people commenting on this thread humbles me and also makes me want to work harder, a big thumbs up for your awesome post!

The same. It would be incredibly boring and a lot of wasted potential for this project. What really interests me of the game is the "manipulation" part of it, but how fun\interesting it is going to be depends on what Veqvil (the perverted mind of Veqvil ) is gonna come up with

I totally understand your point on harem as it can be a little "bland" and unrealistic, but for me getting multiple characters into such an intimate situation with you is a very complex and chaotic mix of emotions and feelings. We can have participation based on jealousy, interest in the same sex, out of generosity, group thinking, competition etc. In some games, it certainly is just a simple thing and everyone is having fun, but for me, this is a perfect situation to make different motives clash with each other. It could be Becky who joins the harem fun, thinking that the MC deserves it and that this might increase her chance to be forgiven, while girl X wants to show off her sex-experience but girl Y mostly tries to kiss another girl exploring her lesbian fantasies. Also, there are group phenomena which can be very interesting and exciting IMO. Nonetheless, for harem I lack the writing skills as well as the hardware to properly release that, so we have to see, and for someone who enjoys the manipulative aspect of relationships in LaS: I (hopefully) got you covered XD.

I wonder if I can take the love, lust route with mom and sis at the same time or if I have to choose one?
Also, since I'm an incest fan they are the most important girls to me, but I wouldn't mind to play the love or lust route with the other girls either.
I like the seduction path, not suppress the girls' will with mind control or submission; that would be like fucking a doll: beutiful outside but soulless.

Yes as @ShadowManNor and @n0b0dy said there won't be any simple one-for-all-brainwash which turns every character into a doll (I work really hard to create characters with different personalities etc. and I want to apply this even in a forced submissive situation, also submission doesn't have to be forced, it can be a consensus or even a preference of a love interest), there still will be a relationship even though not necessary a loving one (depending on the character of course).

I want the player to think: How would character X react when I try to make her submit and what weak spots/triggers or Information can I make use of? Are the nude pics of her enough to blackmail her submission?

Again there is so much more I can't say yet as this is part of the main story of this game.

Just found this game. For an early build, it's looking very good. I enjoyed the content so far very much.

I'm glad you enjoyed this build so far!

 

[Paprika]

What I look for in a game are two things: beautiful, hot girls/renders and a great story of seduction and erotism (that's why I like incest). I think your game has both elements.
I'm looking forward to find out what's next in the story.

 

[Mwanted]

I totally understand your point on harem as it can be a little "bland" and unrealistic, but for me getting multiple characters into such an intimate situation with you is a very complex and chaotic mix of emotions and feelings. We can have participation based on jealousy, interest in the same sex, out of generosity, group thinking, competition etc. In some games, it certainly is just a simple thing and everyone is having fun, but for me, this is a perfect situation to make different motives clash with each other. It could be Becky who joins the harem fun, thinking that the MC deserves it and that this might increase her chance to be forgiven, while girl X wants to show off her sex-experience but girl Y mostly tries to kiss another girl exploring her lesbian fantasies. Also, there are group phenomena which can be very interesting and exciting IMO. Nonetheless, for harem I lack the writing skills as well as the hardware to properly release that, so we have to see, and for someone who enjoys the manipulative aspect of relationships in LaS: I (hopefully) got you covered XD

Just out of the pleasure of brainstorming :FeelsGoodMan: let's say this: you got me covered if what that manipulation leads into isn't the harem only. I don't know if you agree, but just think about it: is it better (quality wise) having a game where the only objective (of manipulation) is the harem (regardless of the number of females, be it 1 or 5), or a game where you use manipulation for multiple objectives (getting in the girl's pants, sure, but also interacting and playing with the lives of multiple characters in multiple situations).
I've probably been too generic here, but I hope you got the meaning and spirit of it: more variety and more freedom for the player (= more quality, imo)

 

[veqvil]

What I look for in a game are two things: beautiful, hot girls/renders and a great story of seduction and erotism (that's why I like incest). I think your game has both elements.
I'm looking forward to find out what's next in the story.

Thank you! I will always try my best

Just out of the pleasure of brainstorming :FeelsGoodMan: let's say this: you got me covered if what that manipulation leads into isn't the harem only. I don't know if you agree, but just think about it: is it better (quality wise) having a game where the only objective (of manipulation) is the harem (regardless of the number of females, be it 1 or 5), or a game where you use manipulation for multiple objectives (getting in the girl's pants, sure, but also interacting and playing with the lives of multiple characters in multiple situations).
I've probably been too generic here, but I hope you got the meaning and spirit of it: more variety and more freedom for the player (= more quality, imo)

Well, the purpose of creating a submission route was not to only be able to organize a harem. Harem is optional and simply another genre I want to implement rather than being the ultimate endgame. For the "nature" of harem, it requires you to have developed relationships. So it will only be truly available if you managed to go into many love or either submission routes and made it possible to connect them (I want this to be tricky though as it is in real life xDD)