VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[redoubt27]

Haha that is true, I hope my posts don't come across as conspirations.

No, you're fine.

My comment was very general in nature, to express how different people can look at the same set of evidence, yet develop polar opposite interpretations and reach much different conclusions, some of them kind of out there...

Per my comment above, I'm very fond of Lacey and see her much differently than just about everyone else, who are making similar assumptions as the MC, despite Lacey explaining and demonstrating otherwise...

I don't see Lacey as purely selfish, though I completely understand those that do.
I think Lacey's plan worked better than anyone expected and definitely better than anyone realizes...

I'll explain as briefly as possible.
Anna's plan is the "garden" plan. And while she's not wrong, it's the best method, there's one important step that has to be done before you plant a garden...

Lacey's plan isn't the best long term solution. But, it's very effective toward setting up the garden plan.
Because what's the first step of planting a garden?
You have to completely rip up the grass, the weeds, the roots, the stumps, everything.
You have to clear cut and make ready.
Lacey dropped a bomb on the area to get it done instead of methodically clearing the garden area, but damn it was effective and worked very well. She got the quick result she needed without a lot of collateral damage... High risk, high reward, minimal impact. That's a big win for Lacey...

 

[Maviarab]

she didn't leave the MC in hell either, she went to rescue him...

Sorry but not reading this without saying something.

She left him in hell...while she took a cruise out to Rio to visit the beaches and drink margs. She didn't give a shit...not a thought (in reality, regardless of what she half-assed says), to the point that she had no fucking clue what/where/how the MC was. She only 'saved him' because of Anna, because Anna went way above and beyond the call of duty to finally talk to her and tell her the MC was going to kill himself and to stop...ignoring...him....

Anna saved MC, got him out of hell, not Lacey, she was just a good girl and did what Anna told her to do. Lacey didnt save jack and shit, and Jack checked out a long time ago.

She got the quick result she needed without a lot of collateral damage

Are we even reading the same story and playing the same VN? What result exactly? Little collateral damage?


If you think that was a solid good result and there was little damage, fuck me dude, I'd hate to see what you think is a complete shit-show in comparison.

 

[JEER0X]

No, you're fine.

My comment was very general in nature, to express how different people can look at the same set of evidence, yet develop polar opposite interpretations and reach much different conclusions, some of them kind of out there...

Per my comment above, I'm very fond of Lacey and see her much differently than just about everyone else, who are making similar assumptions as the MC, despite Lacey explaining and demonstrating otherwise...

I don't see Lacey as purely selfish, though I completely understand those that do.
I think Lacey's plan worked better than anyone expected and definitely better than anyone realizes...

I'll explain as briefly as possible.
Anna's plan is the "garden" plan. And while she's not wrong, it's the best method, there's one important step that has to be done before you plant a garden...

Lacey's plan isn't the best long term solution. But, it's very effective toward setting up the garden plan.
Because what's the first step of planting a garden?
You have to completely rip up the grass, the weeds, the roots, the stumps, everything.
You have to clear cut and make ready.
Lacey dropped a bomb on the area to get it done instead of methodically clearing the garden area, but damn it was effective and worked very well. She got the quick result she needed without a lot of collateral damage... High risk, high reward, minimal impact. That's a big win for Lacey...

i don't think we're playing the same game?

 

[redoubt27]

Are we even reading the same story and playing the same VN? What result exactly? Little collateral damage?

I keep wondering the same thing every time I read people's comments about Lacey...

What result? Seriously?...no, seriously??
1. The MC stopped yelling at Lacey.
2. He's stopped being so hurt and taking Lacey's mistakes/actions as a targeted attack on him personally.
3. The MC stands up to both Jared and Isaac.
4. After the Isaac thing, yes, the MC is hurt, but he doesn't run to the cliff... He gets drunk, but doesn't fall into the I should kill myself moment...
5. He was finally able to communicate effectively with Lacey and handled the Jared situation. (for now anyway).
How are so many people missing this???
6. He's able to "play" with Lacey, undo some of her past, reclaim her so to speak. Dude couldn't have pulled that off before the Damian bomb...

I agree, it was not the best way to do it, it was messy. But damn, it worked...

Little collateral damage?

The MC's not dead, right? He's not only alive, he's better, willing to fight for Lacey rather than with her...

I understand how everyone else sees Lacey the way y'all do.
I'm fine with being the only one seeing Lacey the way I do.
And I'll be perfectly fine if I'm completely wrong when ACT II rolls out.
I'll just hate this story then...

 

[DeviantFun]

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This is a very kind hearted way of seeing things, but it is very Lacey centric.

Lacey might not be purely selfish, sure, no one is pure anything, she obviously is a mix of things, but one of these things, actually the predominant one is that she is indded very selfish.

When Lacey leaves for 4 years she does it for herself, was she entitled to it? probably, was she right to lie without giving MC any closure? No.
Both of those actions are super selfish and to be frank, cowardly.
I can look with a kind eye since I do have quite a bit of experience with abused children, my own adopted sister is one and she absolutely hates confrontations even to her own detriment.

Ignoring MC was again very selfish and cruel, lets be honest the only person Lacey is actually cruel with is MC, if you want to look at the present just look at the Will situation, she misunderstands and then goes nuclear on MC hitting him on his weakest spot, a spot she repeatedly hits with her blunders, this time was hit with purpose.

I am actually more fond of Lacey than I am for MC, which is a super weak (and racist) man or even some of the friends like Mia, that act as complete enablers, never putting their foot down for her own good.

Lying for weeks to your husband to go to parties, breaking rules and attacking MC for asking simple questions such as Barty's behaviour do show that Lacey is not as good as she portrays herself.

I think you misunderstand Anna approach to gardening .
True to start planting seeds you need to clean up, but also the cleaning up has to be done carefully and slowly.
Why? Because you risk to actually kill allso the good plants or make the terrain inhospitable (is this the right word??).
We are told and we see that MC is fragile and needs a gentle touch, if she cared about him like she says, she would have taken that approach immediately.
She doesn't because she doesn't want to go through months or years of rebuilding, she wants results, immediately because her impulse control is comparable to a toddler's.

So is Lacey a monster plotting evil? no
Is she a saint? NOOOOO

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I completely agree on all points, but you have to realize that she didn't leave him in hell, she created the hell.

She mentions how much she knew MC, while she didn't even know about the rules, which was MC WAY OF LIFE, so she actually didn't know him that well.

She forgot about MC as soon as she found another crutch, true, but I believe the initial intention was really to be in a better state for MC.
Was the whole thing selfish as hell? yes
Did it have the usual Lacey collateral damage? YES

She even made up a convenient story in her head on how MC was "living the life" to actually excuse herself from her awful deeds, she would regret that later, having broken the only person that actually really gave a shit about her.

She was having fun at parties and when they became not so fun due to the drug abuse + having tried everything possible she decided to come back, actually she wasn't planning to come back at all until Anna the fucking MVP actuallly managed to get in contact with her and save MC.
Who knows, if Anna didn't call she could have been with Isaac by now, since she was actuallly thinking about it and he doesn't seem to take no for an answer.

Yup anna makes some questionable choices, like erasing the recording of isaac, but she is a real one.

I'd like to pick both of your minds about Mia, I have a strong problem with her characterization, she understood that Lacey was a broken shell of a girl and yet she never stopped pushing Lacey to degrade herself more and more.
Her initial reason? Llacey needed to say fuck you to her abusive parents, the plan? Making her become the campus public toilet.
It was just abuse, Mia even encourages her about the Evan thing until she finds herself in the situation to be the only one left out.
But wasn't she raped and abused? So a rapey scenario is not GREAt and exciting? Having Lacey thinking about a potential rapist while fucking MC is to be considered hot?

I don't know what the author had in mind, but he really fucked up on this one.
You seem to be on different areas of the spectrum so, give me your thoughts.

 

[redoubt27]

i don't think we're playing the same game?

No, we are.
Because I understand how y'all see what you do.
I just see a little more, something else.

 

[DeviantFun]

I keep wondering the same thing every time I read people's comments about Lacey...

What result? Seriously?...no, seriously??
1. The MC stopped yelling at Lacey.
2. He's stopped being so hurt and taking Lacey's mistakes/actions as a targeted attack on him personally.
3. The MC stands up to both Jared and Isaac.
4. After the Isaac thing, yes, the MC is hurt, but he doesn't run to the cliff... He gets drunk, but doesn't fall into the I should kill myself moment...
5. He was finally able to communicate effectively with Lacey and handled the Jared situation. (for now anyway).
How are so many people missing this???
6. He's able to "play" with Lacey, undo some of her past, reclaim her so to speak. Dude couldn't have pulled that off before the Damian bomb...

1. The MC was yelling at Lacey because she was lying to him.
2. Tbh? Go and read again the Will part, I bet that willl change your mind about Lacey's willingness to hurt MC
3. Yes, and Lacey doesn't and actually invites Isaac in the home, Llacey states that she doesn't want his number and he doesn't want to see him again, ever, and yet AFTER Isaac humiliates MC in front of millions of people and Mc feells pretty shitty about it, she ignores all she said and MC feelings.
4. if you think that a person that performs an act of self destruction like going completely blackout drunk because he cannot deal with the events in his life is "fine", I have a couple of books to recommend.
5. This is all MC growth, fighting back Jared is the usual MC, fighting to save Lacey,as he did when he was a kid, Llacey had NO PART of it unless you count actually instigating the whole thing with Jared + fucking minors
6. You are wrong, he starts understanding Lacey comment about sex after fucking Anna (I just rewrote that whole part so it is pretty fresh in my mind), Damian could not and should not have been a thing, MC is actually still angry and hurt about Damian even after sex with Anna.

Look I understand your POV, but you're giving Lacey too much leeway, she is fucking up constantly, sometimes with very good intentions but she isn't making the situation better by hersellf.
MC is withstanding it all and actually pushing forward with some help from the friend circle.
He decided to throw a party to actually start his healing all on his own, Lacey didn't even know about it, neither she suggested it, even if in the later chat she actually says that she knows MC needed that.

I agree, it was not the best way to do it, it was messy. But damn, it worked...

Little collateral damage?
View attachment 4922832
The MC's not dead, right? He's not only alive, he's better, willing to fight for Lacey rather than with her...

I understand how everyone else sees Lacey the way y'all do.
I'm fine with being the only one seeing Lacey the way I do.
And I'll be perfectly fine if I'm completely wrong when ACT II rolls out.
I'll just hate this story then...

The MC has literal PTSD, no he didn't die but he is a broken man.
Death is not always the worst outcome.

Act 2 will be a redempion arc I suppose, with the author offering several NTS scenarios for both MC and Lacey.
It is stated that you can share also other LIs.

 

[JEER0X]

What result? Seriously?...no, seriously??
1. The MC stopped yelling at Lacey.
2. He's stopped being so hurt and taking Lacey's mistakes/actions as a targeted attack on him personally.
3. The MC stands up to both Jared and Isaac.
4. After the Isaac thing, yes, the MC is hurt, but he doesn't run to the cliff... He gets drunk, but doesn't fall into the I should kill myself moment...
5. He was finally able to communicate effectively with Lacey and handled the Jared situation. (for now anyway).
How are so many people missing this???
6. He's able to "play" with Lacey, undo some of her past, reclaim her so to speak. Dude couldn't have pulled that off before the Damian bomb...

1. he stopped yelling at lacey cause she's mellowed a tad but then she keeps making mistakes over and over like inviting Isaac in the house for example only a matter of time before she does something again and he'll probably yell again. I think he's yelling cause he's trying to break threw her foggy brain, some of ya'll think hes abusive with his yelling but i really don't and i don't think lacey does either, she wants him to express himself, she wants him to be mad at her it's clear, if u look at the point in the game where she goats him into a response and he slaps the shit outta her, she likes it and wants him to express it and yelling is defiantly better than beating her to death.
2. i disagree on that one i haven't seen him hurt less yet although he is trying to forgive her "mistakes"
3. can't argue with this one although it's not over with them yet surely
4. So you think its better that he didn't repeat the suicide attempt, what if he just realized that the 2 times he attempte it he was stopped so it became pointless in trying again while jumping off the cliff seems to be his goto for that getting wasted is pretty bad as well while obviously not suicide attempt it can lead to horrible outcomes for him as well like addiction and can cause his depression to get even worse where he could then try a different method to end it.
5. i don't think he really communicated effectively at all he's still a bumbling mess internally and he's trying to appease Lacey to much instead of helping himself, the jared thing def isn't over at least i doubt it and the way it was handled was lazy writing as someone else posted she slept with a minor there's really no way everyone's just okay with this and gonna drop it the dev really shouldn't of tried that SHOCK play there and came up with something less criminal while i think its hilarious jared is a cuck and loves that video mc made
6.i am not sure if i agree with this one or not there is some truth to it i guess but it depends on how u played it, if u let her to further or not, i personally first played the game trying to minimize the encounters like stopping at the kiss and romantic results in other choices, i realize some playing it full steam ahead to get scenes or like to abuse the MC cause seems some people hate the mc i just feel bad for him.

PS i didn't take a writing class so sorry if my responses are jumbled i am really enjoying these replies it's very interesting to see peoples opinions on the game and other real issues related to it, i with we had a real psychologist here to analyze this game i would love to hear there opinions

 

[redoubt27]

I'd like to pick both of your minds about Mia, I have a strong problem with her characterization, she understood that Lacey was a broken shell of a girl and yet she never stopped pushing Lacey to degrade herself more and more.

Mia is in a similar boat as Lacey. The difference is their abuse/trauma happened at different ages.

Lacey's clearly started when she was very young. So, Lacey's growth/development stunted at say the age of 5-6.
Lacey behaves like a naïve, innocent child...

Mia was abused/raped at the age of 15. What does Mia act like? A bratty 15 year old "mean girl".
I see Mia as "punishing" Lacey in college. Mia wanted to hurt someone else like she had been hurt, and Mia chose Lacey...


Anna was the conduit/facilitator to reconnect Lacey and the MC. But Anna didn't save the MC. Lacey did...
Lacey didn't know the MC was in hell. She thought she was doing him a favor by leaving.
Lacey comes back yes, to be with the MC, because that's why she left in the first place to get to a point where she could give the MC what she thought he needed without her conflating the MC with her trauma...
She wasn't going to fucking Rio on vacation...
That's why the Lacey Rules conversation is so damn important and a critical "revelation" point for both Lacey and the MC.
Lacey is doing a similar thing for MC with the notes on the phone, without even realizing...
Lacey also realizes the root cause of the MC's hurt, and it isn't really the sex or that Lacey left. It's that Lacey hadn't come back, yet...

Go back and read the dev's opening lines of this VN...
Healing is a painful process...

Before college, Lacey and the MC were stuck. Since this is a story and not IRL...
There was no way forward for them, together. If they stayed like that, nothing would have changed, gotten better. They would have only gotten worse and likely lead to them splitting up and killing themselves.
In the context of this story, and not what would have been a better, more healthy IRL solution...
Lacey was the one that took the leap to change the status quo and give them at least an opportunity to heal, to build something better instead of being stuck.

What they had, had to be destroyed, burned down, in order to build back something better...
Healing is a painful process...

If this dev is going in a different direction with the VN, it's a terrible decision because then it's just fetishizing child sexual abuse... And that would suck. I'm trying to give the dev the benefit of the doubt and believe that's not what the dev is trying to do with this story... Again, I could be wrong, but I sincerely hope not...

 

[DeviantFun]

1. he stopped yelling at lacey cause she's mellowed a tad but then she keeps making mistakes over and over like inviting Isaac in the house for example only a matter of time before she does something again and he'll probably yell again
2. i disagree on that one i haven't seen him hurt less yet although he is trying to forgive her "mistakes"
3. can't argue with this one although it's not over with them yet surely
4. So you think its better that he didn't repeat the suicide attempt, what if he just realized that the 2 times he attempte it he was stopped so it became pointless in trying again while jumping off the cliff seems to be his goto for that getting wasted is pretty bad as well while obviously not suicide attempt it can lead to horrible outcomes for him as well like addiction and can cause his depression to get even worse where he could then try a different method to end it.
5. i don't think he really communicated effectively at all he's still a bumbling mess internally and he's trying to appease Lacey to much instead of helping himself, the jared thing def isn't over at least i doubt it and the way it was handled was lazy writing as someone else posted she slept with a minor there's really no way everyone's just okay with this and gonna drop it the dev really shouldn't of tried that SHOCK play there and came up with something less criminal while i think its hilarious jared is a cuck and loves that video mc made
6.i am not sure if i agree with this one or not there is some truth to it i guess but it depends on how u played it, if u let her to further or not, i personally first played the game trying to minimize the encounters like stopping at the kiss and romantic results in other choices, i realize some playing it full steam ahead to get scenes or like to abuse the MC cause seems some people hate the mc i just feel bad for him.

1. He stopped yelling also because he now sees himself as the bad guy and is scared that Lacey will leave him, Lacey even tells him that she will give him a limited time for him to punish her and for her to make amends if the topic was only her past, which for someone that is trying to "heal" someone else is the worst thing you could do.
2. One could argue that he is just becoming numb to the pain, remember "pain doesn't change you, you just become numb untill there is nothing left" (rough translation)
3. I would argue that even if MC stands up to them, he never had issues standing up for Lacey or himself, he does have issues standing up to Lacey + she undermines all his efforts being buddy buddy with Isaac later on and one could argue that the whole Jared situation is actually caused by her.
4. this is another sign of MC growth, he decides to leave instead of killing himself, even if the "friends" hook him where he is
5. Jared is over, he is neutered and the author decided to make him as a joke because now he is cuked by MC and enjoys it but wait there is more HE HAS A SMALL PENIS HAR HAR, the ending of the Jared arc would have been more cathartic if he was chastized properly without the over the top comedy, it was childish.
6. No even the full stead ahead kinda sucks, the kiss at the end lleaves a bad taste and kinda shows again how little Lacey cares about MC when her immediate pleasure is involved.
When Mc has sex with Anna, she cries and asks if they kissed, because kisses are very important to her, they are VERY important to MC as well to the point where he doesn't kiss anyone and asks Llacey to not kiss Damian.
She removes control from MC to get fucked in the bathroom but she doesn't stop the scenario when the kiss is involved, that is an awful way to destry any growth for some shock value.

 

[JEER0X]

i was still editing my post as more thoughts came to mind before you quoted

 

[DeviantFun]

Mia is in a similar boat as Lacey. The difference is their abuse/trauma happened at different ages.

Lacey's clearly started when she was very young. So, Lacey's growth/development stunted at say the age of 5-6.
Lacey behaves like a naïve, innocent child...

Mia was abused/raped at the age of 15. What does Mia act like? A bratty 15 year old "mean girl".
I see Mia as "punishing" Lacey in college. Mia wanted to hurt someone else like she had been hurt, and Mia chose Lacey...

That is an interesting view, while trauma does not equate with stunted growth, it could happen in certain areas, good point.

Mia never mentions anything about punishing Lacey, my personal theory, that is never mentioned in the game, is that she lived Lacey sex life vicariously, and when she got bored she pushed Lacey to do more.

Like watching porn, you start by looking for "big tits" and you end up a few years later looking for "triple fisting with baseball bats squiting hotwife".

But why is no one mentioning this to her aside from Christine, MC once in the messages is beyond me.

Anna was the conduit/facilitator to reconnect Lacey and the MC. But Anna didn't save the MC. Lacey did...
Lacey didn't know the MC was in hell. She thought she was doing him a favor by leaving.
Lacey comes back yes, to be with the MC, because that's why she left in the first place to get to a point where she could give the MC what she thought he needed without her conflating the MC with her trauma...
She wasn't going to fucking Rio on vacation...
That's why the Lacey Rules conversation is so damn important and a critical "revelation" point for both Lacey and the MC.
Lacey is doing a similar thing for MC with the notes on the phone, without even realizing...
Lacey also realizes the root cause of the MC's hurt, and it isn't really the sex or that Lacey left. It's that Lacey hadn't come back, yet...

She wasn't in Rio but she never hides that she had fun, sure with some pretty big downs, but she had fun at the parties she says so herself and is stated by Mia as well.

The fact that she doesn't know that MC was in a bad place just shows how little she knew him, not only that but she states that she made a scenario in her mind where MC was actually having a good time to feel better with herself.
She ignored the desperate attempts of MC to reconnect with her, mulltiple times.

I agree almost totally with the fact that MC issues are not understood by her, no matter how many times he has to state them.
She left him, he was thrown away like a cum rag, after dedicating his life to her, if his life was not enough then he is not enough.
She chose a "different" life for 1420 days, every day she woke up and chose that instead of MC, not even by coming back, but by ignoring him and cutting him off from her life.

The sex connection to love does play a part, some people are just like that, I've been with some very freaky partners that were VERY exclusive, if you were not in a committed and loving relationship sex was off the table.
There is no right way to see sex, unless you have actually problems with it.

Go back and read the dev's opening lines of this VN...
Healing is a painful process...

Before college, Lacey and the MC were stuck. Since this is a story and not IRL...
There was no way forward for them, together. If they stayed like that, nothing would have changed, gotten better. They would have only gotten worse and likely lead to them splitting up and killing themselves.
In the context of this story, and not what would have been a better, more healthy IRL solution...
Lacey was the one that took the leap to change the status quo and give them at least an opportunity to heal, to build something better instead of being stuck.

What they had, had to be destroyed, burned down, in order to build back something better...
Healing is a painful process...

If this dev is going in a different direction with the VN, it's a terrible decision because then it's just fetishizing child sexual abuse... And that would suck. I'm trying to give the dev the benefit of the doubt and believe that's not what the dev is trying to do with this story... Again, I could be wrong, but I sincerely hope not...

I am not sure that they had no path forward, I could write several scenarios where they have, starting from where the author left off, as you said it is not IRL, but psicologists and psichiatrist exist even in fantasy!

You seem to be coming back to destruction quite often, I can assure you, it is not always the best way.
Deconstruction is always superior, and it is a slow and methodical process.
Destruction is bad, always, because then you have to deal with scorched earth and eventual collateral damage.
You need to be aware of your issues and your past to understand yourself, cope with it and sometimes even use it for your advantage and pushing youself forward.
I often talk about this at and for work.

I didn't understand what you mean about fetishizing child abuse, I am curious, could you elaborate?
But let me tell you, trauma is plenty fetishized in this game

Thanks for the convo, I find it engaging

 

[Canto Forte]

Nobody can overcome trauma unless they let go, forgive, and forget - you cannot learn to live like a brain dead free use slut and demand any respect from anyone, least of all your husband - bulls and villains would fight eachother, something this game forgot about and went for this nonsensical, neutered story of epic disillusion.

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In all NTR games, the bulls are nonsensical, while in this game MC chastises the demented villain numerous times, he keeps getting away with it, so the solution is always Karma - stupid comeuppance that rights the wrong without giving any agency to the characters.

You need to be aware of your issues and your past to understand yourself, cope with it and sometimes even use it for your advantage and pushing youself forward

This game disproves this numerous times in rapid succession - if you let your past exist in your future, the villains of your past will come back to blackmail you, harass you, rape you and rob you of any and all future you might have a chance at if you let go and moved on, ceasing to live in the past.

 

[Maviarab]

The fact that she doesn't know that MC was in a bad place just shows how little she knew him, not only that but she states that she made a scenario in her mind where MC was actually having a good time to feel better with herself.
She ignored the desperate attempts of MC to reconnect with her, mulltiple times.

She chose a "different" life for 1420 days, every day she woke up and chose that instead of MC, not even by coming back, but by ignoring him and cutting him off from her life.

As for Mia, she a toxic selfish bitch. She ain't no friend of Lacey and sure as hell ain't no friend of the MC.


__________________________________________
As for the 15yo's in the supposed video, jesus fucking christ people. Nothing would happen in rl except to (maybe) whoever organised the gangbang and Jarred. Any idiot in the law would be able to tell she was coked/ketted and liquered up to high hell. She would suffer no consequences because she didn't even know who was fucking her.

Anyone with a copy of the film, would be in a boatload of shit. Whover let them in, might get a slap on the wrists and as has been stated previously, Jared himself would be in the biggest shit.

It's the dumbest thing in the story and really does make me wonder about the dev (given the themes of his other work) regarding his own age and just how clueless he is to shit that happens in real life and their actual consequences. No one though is fetishizing it, no one is 'glossing over it'...it's a case of, it was pretty much a public gang, the reason 2 15yo's got in is irelevant, nothing is going to happen to them (the kids) regardless if the police got involved. It's just a stupid plot for shock value. Can we finally leave this subject the fuck alone now please?

 

[DeviantFun]

Nobody can overcome trauma unless they let go, forgive, and forget - you cannot learn to live like a brain dead free use slut and demand any respect from anyone, least of all you husband - bulls and vilains would fight eachother, something this game forgot about and went for this nonsensical, neutered story of epic disillusion.

I would disagree on the forget part, you never forget serious trauma, it hurts less and it won't control your life anymore because you learn techniques to deal with it.
I kinda agree with the respect part, this is why Lacey at some points realizes she couldn't go back to MC anymore.
From your comment I guess you don't like the story very much

In all NTR games, the bulls are nonsensical, while in this game MC chastises the demented vilain numerous times, he keeps getting away with it, so the solution is always Karma - stupid comeuppance that rights the wrong without giving any agency to the characters.

Well you have to admit this is not the usuall NTR game slop, tbh I am not an expert because I dislike NTR with a passion.
I am not sure where the MC chastises the demented villain, you mean Jared?
Hell when Jared is at MC home groping his wife he lets him do it and then imply that he fucked his wife.
In the supply closet he just leaves.
He gets him once and honestly without too much agency since everything is held togheter by Bella, which is a pretty weird character.

Bella character in a nutshell: I never give BJs, but I just met you and this is crazy but here's my mouth so fuck it maybe.
So yeah, I said a few times that the MC fight with Jared is pretty silly.

 

[redoubt27]

6. You are wrong, he starts understanding Lacey comment about sex after fucking Anna (I just rewrote that whole part so it is pretty fresh in my mind), Damian could not and should not have been a thing, MC is actually still angry and hurt about Damian even after sex with Anna.

Am I? When does the MC have sex with Anna? Oh yeah, after the Damian thing.
Do you really think the MC has sex with Anna if he doesn't see Lacey with Damian?
I don't think he would have...

4. if you think that a person that performs an act of self destruction like going completely blackout drunk because he cannot deal with the events in his life is "fine", I have a couple of books to recommend.

I think this pretty much sums it up. And why this will cease to be a productive conversation going forward.
I didn't say the MC was "fine".
I didn't suggest getting blackout drunk is a good thing.

4. After the Isaac thing, yes, the MC is hurt, but he doesn't run to the cliff... He gets drunk, but doesn't fall into the I should kill myself moment...

I suggested blackout drunk was an improvement, be it slight, over I want to kill myself and taking actions to do it...

 

[DeviantFun]

Am I? When does the MC have sex with Anna? Oh yeah, after the Damian thing.
Do you really think the MC has sex with Anna if he doesn't see Lacey with Damian?
I don't think he would have...


I think this pretty much sums it up. And why this will cease to be a productive conversation going forward.
I didn't say the MC was "fine".
I didn't suggest getting blackout drunk is a good thing.

I suggested blackout drunk was an improvement, be it slight, over I want to kill myself and taking actions to do it...

It's cool, I'll give one last answer since you don't seem to be enjoying the discussion as much as I am.
I can see that you're having a different opinion than the majority, but I actually agree with you on some points about Lacey and I enjoy reading your POV.

MC is an abominable flirt, he does let things happen, with a free pass in mind and all the temptations around him he would.
It is described a bit on the Christine BJ scene.
Anna was just waiting to pounce and MC simply cannot say no to Lacey (in the game is stated that it is out of fear of disappointing her in this case, which probably relates to the fear of losing her), so I think that yes, MC would have done it even without having to witness the trainwreck that was the Damian event.
Look, he even tries to seduce Veronica and suggest her to send pics even before the trip.
If I had to give a criticism, the player should have been able to avoid the Anna encounter like all the others.

Maybe I worded my statement poorly, MC was getting "better" already when he decided to leave instead of killing himself, this is not thanks to Lacey.
That said, self destruction can take many guises, drinking is definitely one of them, for all the shit I give to MC for his behaviour, we have to admit that he is quite strong in the end, as he comes out almost destroyed but on his feet.

So in my view and with my experience I don't see that act as an actual improvement, just a continuation.

 

[redoubt27]

you don't seem to be enjoying the discussion

No, I'm not a fan of going back and forth debating and micro analyzing the wording and events of a fictional porn VN...
We've exchanged opinions, ideas, and now devolved into arguing right and wrong, which we won't know until the story progresses...
I'm not concerned about being right or wrong.
I do appreciate that at least one person can see the point of view I have and why I have it.

Because I do see the other side; I'm just choosing to give Lacey the leeway of a 5-6 year old child at this point instead of expecting her to act, behave like a "normal" adult... Yes, I am choosing to give her the benefit of the doubt until the story gives direct, solid evidence that shows beyond a reasonable doubt that she is something other than what she is right now...

All I know, in the ending bar scene, I had the MC choose to go get Lacey when she first said please, she happily left...
It wasn't Morty that did it for her.
It was the MC's voice showing signs of jealousy that got her squirming...

 

[JEER0X]

It wasn't Morty that did it for her.
It was the MC's voice showing signs of jealousy that got her squirming...

how are you certain of this? while i can see it i can also see that it could of been Morty and the idea that she could get her fix as i still see her as a sex addict everyone has there opinion and this is mine currently

i don't see these conversations as a bad thing and i don't see us arguing really we're all just trying to understand the perspectives of each other and while sometimes it goes in circles as when i keep asking the same questions over and over but i am only doing it cause i can't understand it that's all if you don't want to talk about a topic anymore simply don't reply no one holds it against you =)

 

[redoubt27]

how are you certain of this? while i can see it i can also see that it could of been Morty and the idea that she could get her fix as i still see her as a sex addict everyone has there opinion and this is mine currently

When does Lacey get aroused in that scene?
She goes to dance with Morty.
MC tells her to tone it down a bit... That's her firsts clue MC is getting jealous.
MC then says fuck, go to town... Her second clue.
Instead of "going to town", she compromises and does just a bit more, but not all the way back to where she was when the MC told her tone it down a bit.
They then stay out and dance a couple more songs.
MC says bring it in, let's ramp (I think the word here should be wrap) this up and we'll plan when I'll grab you.
That's Lacey's solid clue the MC is on the verge.
And that's when she touches her lips, turns from Morty, and looks at the MC...

Spoiler: MC is jealous

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Then there's the build up to the kiss...
The MC asks her if this guy does it for her. (jealousy)
She fidgets, then gives the MC the thumbs down gesture, that's their signal for no.
The MC misreads her.
Lacey says please, now.
MC thinks she wants to kiss Morty.
She kisses Morty, like the MC tells her, she's been doing exactly what the MC asks all night...
The MC really gets jealous and expresses anger...
Then...

Spoiler: The answer to why I'm reasonably sure.

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Lacey was letting the MC know she was sufficiently aroused by his jealousy, and she was good to go.
The MC, again, misreads Lacey's intent, just like so many do...
There's even more in the "aftercare" conversations, that goes deeper into what really happened in this scene with Lacey and the MC.

The dev warned in the opening, the MC is the narrator, but he is not always seeing the truth, he's unreliable...
And since we're playing the MC's perspective, I think many take, or are influenced by, the MC's narrative as "the truth" rather than what it is, only the MCs perspective, not what is actually going on.
I disassociated with the MC's perspective very early on...
And started just paying attention to actual events and facts, not the damaged perceptions of the MC.

Add: this is what I don't want to do for every one of my opinions and interpretations of what I think is really (clearly) going on...
Many involve 3 or more scenes, conversations, that are spread out all over the place.

Oh, and if you take it further...
Lacey asks the MC, are you sure about this?
She's concerned about hurting the MC, but she said she'd do anything he asked her to do...
When he says do what I tell you whore, Lacey replies I love you...
Lacey is showing concern, she's warning him, but she's ready to do whatever the MC asks of her.
And if you go all the way to the sex scene with Morty, Lacey really breaks it down with a very clinical play by play explanation...

And hopefully to better understand my POV, this scene, this series of events, helps validate my interpretation of the earlier scenes...
Lacey is concerned about the MC, she doesn't want to hurt him, and she doesn't want him to hurt himself.
And it's in the aftercare scenes/conversations, where the MC finally understands what Lacey has been trying to tell him/get him to understand all along...
And this scene, goes all the way back to when Lacey explained why she left, why she screwed around... She was trying to get to the point where she enjoyed sex "normally" so sex with the MC would not be associated with any of her past trauma/abuse...