VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 2] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[CrysusPariah2]

I'll say it now...everything we have been debating, if it turns out to all be correct...all be 'intentional'....all 'carefully planned out'...then I will publically apologise to the professor for all my calling him out and anounce his genius. We shall see though....

Count me in as well

 

[Maviarab]

Only time will tell! I will say that while I certainly hope that it's all planned out and intentional, I'm not too worried if it is or isn't. The writing is good enough to have me this invested, so I'll happily keep playing, even if I have to accept some plot holes or whatever.

I hope you all know that even though I argue a lot on here, as long as everyone is arguing in good faith, I'm happy to hear opposing views!

For sure. I know at times we can get a little heated...but this is probably one of the better/nicest threads on the Zone.

Count me in as well

For sure though I'll happily admit to perhaps being the threads biggest detractor when it comes to the prof's writing and what I think of it. I am always happy to be corrected though and am always big enough to hold up my hands and say when/if I was wrong.

 

[Dragonlight]

In the end the details are irrelevant. From the moment her plan to cuck him was brought up, throughout her expertly manipulating him to accept it, to the end event, she was always going to do it.

During her convo to get him on board, the dude repeats he doesn't want it like 5-6 times. If she didn't want to do it and cared about what he wants, she would have stopped there. Instead she uses manipulative dialectic and hypotheticals to mindfuck the poor fool until he says maybe. If the protests of the person hurt the most, face to face with her, weren't enough to stop her, nothing would. Phone calls and msgs are nothing, out of sight out of mind.

You`re not wrong, Lacey did all that, and if MC was any other man the game would be over before prologue`s end, but I agree with DeviantFun that this lacks nuance.

She said that she knows MC better than anyone and knows what he needs better than anyone, but in truth she does not. When she tries to soothe MC, she says all the things she thinks he wants to hear, but as I re read those parts they seem to come not from true understanding and empathy. Like they could be used at any man and not on MC in particular. Sorry I cant explain it better, english skill issue.

And you are right about when she decided to fix him by cuckolding nothing could`ve stop her. She would use all manipulation tricks in the book to get her way. But it comes from her desire to improve things, because as I said previously she thinks the her way is correct way. I would easily concede that there maybe other motivators, but it is questionable to me what level of awareness she has about them.

But all that is Act 1 Lacey. She is a disgrace to all the wives in the world for the most of Act 1. Without Act 2 Lacey`s development all the nuance could be wishful thinking on my part. But now I am somewhat sure that her motivation was genuine, but I agree that her methods are gross. Her behavior can be attributed to her warped personality, lack of understanding of her husband, but not to malice. Even though the results of her actions hurt MC all the same, misunderstanding can be overcome - malice could not. That is important distinction.

MC opened her eyes a little at the end of Act 1, and Diane did the same and made her reflect on herself. So we should wait and see how Lacey will evolve before rendering the final judgment on her.

 

[Diosvincenccio]

Count me in as well

Im in too.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

For sure. I know at times we can get a little heated...but this is probably one of the better/nicest threads on the Zone.


For sure though I'll happily admit to perhaps being the threads biggest detractor when it comes to the prof's writing and what I think of it. I am always happy to be corrected though and am always big enough to hold up my hands and say when/if I was wrong.

I‘m just amazed how persistent you are to make everything fit and give everything intent, when life would be so mich simpler to attribute human error sometimes

Keep it up, just don’t let it drive you nuts

 

[Maviarab]

So we should wait and see how Lacey will evolve before rendering the final judgment on her.

‘d just amazed how persistent you are to make everything fit and give everything intent, when life would be so mich simpler to attribute human error sometimes

I am becoming a little obsessed with piecing it together I admit. However, with each new 'event' or piece of dialogue (that doesn't fit) I do sigh heavily, take a break and think...wtf am I doing, is it even worth it? lol.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

View attachment 5135889


I am becoming a little obsessed with piecing it together I admit. However, with each new 'event' or piece of dialogue (that doesn't fit) I do sigh heavily, take a break and think...wtf am I doing, is it even worth it? lol.

You know how i operate…
If it isn’t an obvious lie or red herring I chalk it up to dev error, make a note of it, then look out in future updates for details that either further confirm or deny the error

 

[Maviarab]

You know how i operate…
If it isn’t an obvious lie or red herring I chalk it up to dev error, make a note of it, then look out in future updates for details that either further confirm or deny the error

I'm digging deeper lol.

Btw...fun fact: Box of barty conversation?

11th, 12th, 13th, 14th & 15th Lacey Lies and then Gaslights the MC for the 9th time and weaponizes sex..again. Damn

And this was her supposed to be coming clean and unpacking the boxes (a lot of these lies here are confirmed much later)....jeesh lmao.

 

[AL.d]

You`re not wrong, Lacey did all that, and if MC was any other man the game would be over before prologue`s end, but I agree with DeviantFun that this lacks nuance.

She said that she knows MC better than anyone and knows what he needs better than anyone, but in truth she does not. When she tries to soothe MC, she says all the things she thinks he wants to hear, but as I re read those parts they seem to come not from true understanding and empathy. Like they could be used at any man and not on MC in particular. Sorry I cant explain it better, english skill issue.

And you are right about when she decided to fix him by cuckolding nothing could`ve stop her. She would use all manipulation tricks in the book to get her way. But it comes from her desire to improve things, because as I said previously she thinks the her way is correct way. I would easily concede that there maybe other motivators, but it is questionable to me what level of awareness she has about them.

But all that is Act 1 Lacey. She is a disgrace to all the wives in the world for the most of Act 1. Without Act 2 Lacey`s development all the nuance could be wishful thinking on my part. But now I am somewhat sure that her motivation was genuine, but I agree that her methods are gross. Her behavior can be attributed to her warped personality, lack of understanding of her husband, but not to malice. Even though the results of her actions hurt MC all the same, misunderstanding can be overcome - malice could not. That is important distinction.

MC opened her eyes a little at the end of Act 1, and Diane did the same and made her reflect on herself. So we should wait and see how Lacey will evolve before rendering the final judgment on her.

If by malice you mean "right now I want to do this because it will hurt him", I agree that's not how she operates. What Lacey does is "right now I want to do this, if anyone has a problem with it, that's their problem not mine". That's the essence of narcissism. It's practically her response that morning she wanted to go play tennis, but her whole mindset is like that. Maybe without even fully realizing it.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The above is how she concludes her mindfucking to get him to accept. Notice how she says it's all to help him and she won't force anything. Everything is his choice. This is the supposed main motivation for what she's about to do right? To do something for him, not her. And she probably believed that too.

But what happens when she's actually there? He attempts to make that choice and she refuses him. Multiple times. Knowing very well what she's doing. She forces what she wasn't supposed to be forcing. So if her main motivation in the time frame between approaching Damian and eventually getting creamed, was what she was describing above, why did she refuse him the choice? And force him? Isn't the whole thing done for him, not for her? If it's for him, shouldn't he have a say, like she herself told him?

The answer is obvious. Her main motivation in that time frame, had nothing to do with MC. At this point in time, he was irrelevant and he was being treated as such. Her main motivation at some point transitioned from the above, to getting some dick from the attractive co-worker. Who was supposed to be a stranger, but somehow wasn't. If that wasn't the case, she would have picked up the damn phone. It's Occam's razor.

 

[Dragonlight]

If by malice you mean "right now I want to do this because it will hurt him", I agree that's not how she operates. What Lacey does is "right now I want to do this, if anyone has a problem with it, that's their problem not mine". That's the essence of narcissism. It's practically her response that morning she wanted to go play tennis, but her whole mindset is like that. Maybe without even fully realizing it.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The above is how she concludes her mindfucking to get him to accept. Notice how she says it's all to help him and she won't force anything. Everything is his choice. This is the supposed main motivation for what she's about to do right? To do something for him, not her. And she probably believed that too.

But what happens when she's actually there? He attempts to make that choice and she refuses him. Multiple times. Knowing very well what she's doing. She forces what she wasn't supposed to be forcing. So if her main motivation in the time frame between approaching Damian and eventually getting creamed, was what she was describing above, why did she refuse him the choice? And force him? Isn't the whole thing done for him, not for her? If it's for him, shouldn't he have a say, like she herself told him?

The answer is obvious. Her main motivation in that time frame, had nothing to do with MC. At this point in time, he was irrelevant and he was being treated as such. Her main motivation at some point transitioned from the above, to getting some dick from the attractive co-worker. Who was supposed to be a stranger, but somehow wasn't. If that wasn't the case, she would have picked up the damn phone. It's Occam's razor.

I think even if she picked up the damn phone she would`ve convince him anyway. As I said nothing could`ve stopped her because she made up her mind. She even bought drugs ahead of time to not chicken out herself and go through with it.
Occam's razor not universally correct, and Lacey`s explanation is actually the simplest one with less assumptions anyway.

I don`t want to enter another prolonged debate on this topic especially seeing how neither of us is going to change our mind so I will leave it at that for now.
Anyone who will read it and find something interesting are welcome to share their thoughts.

 

[DeviantFun]

You`re not wrong, Lacey did all that, and if MC was any other man the game would be over before prologue`s end, but I agree with DeviantFun that this lacks nuance.

She said that she knows MC better than anyone and knows what he needs better than anyone, but in truth she does not. When she tries to soothe MC, she says all the things she thinks he wants to hear, but as I re read those parts they seem to come not from true understanding and empathy. Like they could be used at any man and not on MC in particular. Sorry I cant explain it better, english skill issue.

And you are right about when she decided to fix him by cuckolding nothing could`ve stop her. She would use all manipulation tricks in the book to get her way. But it comes from her desire to improve things, because as I said previously she thinks the her way is correct way. I would easily concede that there maybe other motivators, but it is questionable to me what level of awareness she has about them.

But all that is Act 1 Lacey. She is a disgrace to all the wives in the world for the most of Act 1. Without Act 2 Lacey`s development all the nuance could be wishful thinking on my part. But now I am somewhat sure that her motivation was genuine, but I agree that her methods are gross. Her behavior can be attributed to her warped personality, lack of understanding of her husband, but not to malice. Even though the results of her actions hurt MC all the same, misunderstanding can be overcome - malice could not. That is important distinction.

MC opened her eyes a little at the end of Act 1, and Diane did the same and made her reflect on herself. So we should wait and see how Lacey will evolve before rendering the final judgment on her.

This is a great post.

I would just like to add that she doesn't even know herself that well.

Imagine being so desperate for validation and showing that you still some value....after her college run?
To a person like MC?

Heh I can't wait to see her struggle more.

If by malice you mean "right now I want to do this because it will hurt him", I agree that's not how she operates. What Lacey does is "right now I want to do this, if anyone has a problem with it, that's their problem not mine". That's the essence of narcissism. It's practically her response that morning she wanted to go play tennis, but her whole mindset is like that. Maybe without even fully realizing it.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The above is how she concludes her mindfucking to get him to accept. Notice how she says it's all to help him and she won't force anything. Everything is his choice. This is the supposed main motivation for what she's about to do right? To do something for him, not her. And she probably believed that too.

But what happens when she's actually there? He attempts to make that choice and she refuses him. Multiple times. Knowing very well what she's doing. She forces what she wasn't supposed to be forcing. So if her main motivation in the time frame between approaching Damian and eventually getting creamed, was what she was describing above, why did she refuse him the choice? And force him? Isn't the whole thing done for him, not for her? If it's for him, shouldn't he have a say, like she herself told him?

The answer is obvious. Her main motivation in that time frame, had nothing to do with MC. At this point in time, he was irrelevant and he was being treated as such. Her main motivation at some point transitioned from the above, to getting some dick from the attractive co-worker. Who was supposed to be a stranger, but somehow wasn't. If that wasn't the case, she would have picked up the damn phone. It's Occam's razor.

Lacey does what Lacey wants.

She treats everyone around her like stupid kids.

She does things because, in her head, everyone is wrong and she is right, her plan will work and then everyone will be happy.

This is not a brain damage thing, although it could have made it worse, this is something integral to her personality, look at when she left for college.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

This game has so many unknowns and mysteries, that it could justify creating it's own spin-off from another perspective, keeping the fans hooked for years

 

[Maviarab]

If by malice you mean "right now I want to do this because it will hurt him", I agree that's not how she operates. What Lacey does is "right now I want to do this, if anyone has a problem with it, that's their problem not mine". That's the essence of narcissism. It's practically her response that morning she wanted to go play tennis, but her whole mindset is like that. Maybe without even fully realizing it.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

The above is how she concludes her mindfucking to get him to accept. Notice how she says it's all to help him and she won't force anything. Everything is his choice. This is the supposed main motivation for what she's about to do right? To do something for him, not her. And she probably believed that too.

But what happens when she's actually there? He attempts to make that choice and she refuses him. Multiple times. Knowing very well what she's doing. She forces what she wasn't supposed to be forcing. So if her main motivation in the time frame between approaching Damian and eventually getting creamed, was what she was describing above, why did she refuse him the choice? And force him? Isn't the whole thing done for him, not for her? If it's for him, shouldn't he have a say, like she herself told him?

The answer is obvious. Her main motivation in that time frame, had nothing to do with MC. At this point in time, he was irrelevant and he was being treated as such. Her main motivation at some point transitioned from the above, to getting some dick from the attractive co-worker. Who was supposed to be a stranger, but somehow wasn't. If that wasn't the case, she would have picked up the damn phone. It's Occam's razor.

 

[AL.d]

and Lacey`s explanation is actually the simplest one with less assumptions anyway.

For something to be the simplest explanation, first it has to actually explain something. "I'm doing it for you but even if you don't want it, I'm doing it anyway in all the ways you absolutely hate. But it is for you, trust me bruh". This makes zero sense so it doesn't even qualify to be called an explanation. Occam's razor cannot be applied to it.

edit : And Lacey actually agrees

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That said, I'm all for agreeing to disagree.

 

[Dragonlight]

For something to be the simplest explanation, first it has to actually explain something. "I'm doing it for you but even if you don't want it, I'm doing it anyway in all the ways you absolutely hate. But it is for you, trust me bruh". This makes zero sense so it doesn't even qualify to be called an explanation. Occam's razor cannot be applied to it.

edit : And Lacey actually agrees

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

That said, I'm all for agreeing to disagree.

No one said she isn`t horrible but I meant that part

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Continuing agreeing to disagree, but couldn`t let that slide.

 

[AL.d]

I'm digging deeper lol.

Btw...fun fact: Box of barty conversation?

11th, 12th, 13th, 14th & 15th Lacey Lies and then Gaslights the MC for the 9th time and weaponizes sex..again. Damn

And this was her supposed to be coming clean and unpacking the boxes (a lot of these lies here are confirmed much later)....jeesh lmao.

I remember playing through that on my third save and having played it all before, I kept laughing at how many turds she was unpacking from her unboxing session. Right the end of the Barty box, she actually apologizes for gaslighting him, while gaslighting him. It was beautiful.

Reminds me of that convo after MC found her with Jared in the tub. She was all sad and apologetic, until he reminds her she has to go work with Veronica. And she was like "oh yeah I have to go do that", while about to meet the same dude she was in the tub with again. Girl is absolutely merciless.

 

[winterwolf200]

I remember playing through that on my third save and having played it all before, I kept laughing at how many turds she was unpacking from her unboxing session. Right the end of the Barty box, she actually apologizes for gaslighting him, while gaslighting him. It was beautiful.

Reminds me of that convo after MC found her with Jared in the tub. She was all sad and apologetic, until he reminds her she has to go work with Veronica. And she was like "oh yeah I have to go do that", while about to meet the same dude she was in the tub with again. Girl is absolutely merciless.

She's not apologizing. She's placating him. As usual.
She's a psychopath. That's her big secret. Her "other side" is this one. The day to day where she pretends to feel things.
"A psychopath is typically defined as a person with a personality disorder characterized by a lack of empathy and remorse, egocentric behavior, and often manipulative or antisocial tendencies. They may appear charming and confident but often engage in deceitful and harmful actions without regard for others' feelings."

 

[anongamer1983]

She's not apologizing. She's placating him. As usual.
She's a psychopath. That's her big secret. Her "other side" is this one. The day to day where she pretends to feel things.
"A psychopath is typically defined as a person with a personality disorder characterized by a lack of empathy and remorse, egocentric behavior, and often manipulative or antisocial tendencies. They may appear charming and confident but often engage in deceitful and harmful actions without regard for others' feelings."

I think that she does show a little empathy and remorse in Act 1, but she definitely shows them in Act 2 unless you think she's lying in her own thoughts or when she's taking notes. This is her own private thoughts to herself at the end of act 1. This is supposedly after her first therapy appointment if you believe she went to therapy:

"I continue to make choices that cause further harm to his ability to feel safe and secure in my love. My primary goal is to find a way to stop doing that and help correct what damage I can. ...[skipping some lines]... I utterly failed him in every way I could possibly fail him. Time for the next evolution of our marriage. One where he feels safe and loved."

 

[AL.d]

She's not apologizing. She's placating him. As usual.
She's a psychopath. That's her big secret. Her "other side" is this one. The day to day where she pretends to feel things.
"A psychopath is typically defined as a person with a personality disorder characterized by a lack of empathy and remorse, egocentric behavior, and often manipulative or antisocial tendencies. They may appear charming and confident but often engage in deceitful and harmful actions without regard for others' feelings."

Fun psychology fact. Psychopathy has enough common traits with narcissism, that many psychologists in later years argue overt narcissists (think Jared), are actually psychopaths. And the only true narcissists are the covert ones (like Lacey).

That said, she doesn't tick enough psychopathy boxes to me. Covert narcissism seems much closer to how she behaves (maybe with some BPD). While I think some of her thoughts we are shown are just rationalizing selfish goals, a psychopath wouldn't even bother to do that. And she is generally depicted as a stressful person, which a psychopath can't be really.

Now if it's something exclusive to her other side, I could see it. But have we seen that other side in the game yet? How it even works? It's a bit confusing to me because if she has no control over it, she shouldn't be fully aware of it. But she is, so I have no clue. Anything goes really.

 

[winterwolf200]

I think that she does show a little empathy and remorse in Act 1, but she definitely shows them in Act 2 unless you think she's lying in her own thoughts or when she's taking notes. This is her own private thoughts to herself at the end of act 1. This is supposedly after her first therapy appointment if you believe she went to therapy:

"I continue to make choices that cause further harm to his ability to feel safe and secure in my love. My primary goal is to find a way to stop doing that and help correct what damage I can. ...[skipping some lines]... I utterly failed him in every way I could possibly fail him. Time for the next evolution of our marriage. One where he feels safe and loved."

She knows she's supposed to love him. She knows that's what he wants from her. To love him, never leave him and to stop hurting him. And she's methodically doing everything in the most efficient way possible. The only problem is that HE does have feelings. And she doesn't realize she's walking all over them until someone points it out. Be it the MC himself, their friends or the therapist. Of course she's taking notes. Because she has no idea what the hell they're talking about.
I suspect it's why we're being kept in the dark about her sessions.