VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[funnythings3785]

Just some basic thoughts on Act 3 concerning Lacey and growth, more specifically an example from one progression that causes conflict in this.

So, the MC goes on a date with Anna, which... lets remember... is pushed for by Lacey, remember all of this interaction with the other girls is... pushed for by Lacey, not the MC. He really doesn't want this, has resisted numerous times, and protested about it. He simply wants a normal relationship with Lacey.

So, Lacey gives Anna the go ahead for a kiss (I think this is also done without informing the MC) so naturally, the MC is shocked when it happens and Anna has to explain. The date proceeds, and you can choose to do more with Anna or not, doing more loses GG points as this was not something specifically "sanctioned" by Lacey.

I noticed that whether you choose to do something with Anna or not, the MC still views the date as if it is something "he" did wrong, which doesn't makes sense (outside of his own mental issues) as none of this stuff was his idea and the whole "experiment" is something he was against from the start.

So he is beating himself up the moment he gets from the date, trying to consider the best way to be considerate of her feelings, how to react, etc... because he is concerned it may be upsetting to her. Lacey is upset, she is jealous (and scared, her words), so she proceeds to use the "fellow" hitting on her as a way to make the MC jealous, she acts in an uncaring and vindictive manner to a situation she created and pushed for.

Lacey knows this will harm him, she knows his past issues, she knows this is wrong (she even admits this after in the hotel room and reasons it is because she is scared) yet... she still does it, knowing how damaged the MC is, knowing this is yet another situation she created, she is fully responsible for.

So, right before they go on their honeymoon, the MC has yet again... dealt with a problem he didn't want, and a reaction he knew would be an issue. He paid for her decisions and responsibility to those decisions yet again.

Now consider that as a lead in, the conversation of her "admitting" to this behavior, knowing these things are extremely serious to him and not something to take lightly...

Now look on to the rest of Act 3 Vegas, Lacey's actions, her behavior, her reasoning, her "knowing" of the issues as they occurred... It just gets worse and worse on this front, but Lacey is growing? I don't see it, at least not as it concerns responsibility to her actions and more specifically that of her part in the relationship to the MC.

 

[funnythings3785]

The story has the potential for a full 10, I say this with real sincerity, built in all the details with real bursts of drama, comedy, sex, and 90% well-written dialogues, absolutely something innovative in this genre, but perhaps in every genre, I repeat the story, as a game, is its poor choice options, well, it is not judgeable, but we accept it, the side that does not give that full 10 of vote is this continuous comic situation between MC and FMC, everything is always forgiven to FMC because he is mentally unstable, but the story also shows a Mc not stable brain, the stupidity of FMC and the super idiocy of MC always forgiving, always justifying, not justifying, makes the story lose a continuous interest, now we always expect FMC to make the same mistake, and MC always forgive her, this in the long run is making it repetitive and a little too easy to understand, too bad, I congratulate you, I repeat, rare to find a

Consider that most works of quality go through numerous iterations before they are finalized and released. In professional situations, this involves editors, publishers, and numerous outside readers going over the story and giving feedback to the author before it is allowed to be released (and the bulk of this is usually technical aspects to story flow and character development)

The professor slams these out quick... I mean... fast... when you consider how much writing there is in it, so I agree, the story has the potential to be outstanding eventually (it already is an amazing read) if he goes through iterations and gets some feedback from fresh eyes and different perspectives. I hope he does, because I think this work truly deserves that polishing.

Part of me wants to have him spend time focusing on this before he continues on, but another part wants me to just let him flow with the story until he is finished, then... go back and shore everything up. I say this because this way it provides him the creative flow he wants without getting bogged down on the details. The later iterations can then take into consideration his overall intent and then adjust the story to fit that.

This though, will create a lot of hair pulling for the readers in the mean time though.

 

[duckydoodoo]

just for fun,

what if Mia and possibly others, are actually Lacey's alternate personalities. and the misconception about how the MC views things, is that we are watching how he portrays the different personalities in his mind when remembering all the crap him and Lacey went through. like when Mia shows MC the videos, in reality it was Lacey, as the Mia personality, but in his mind wether in reflection or retelling the personalities look how they behave. The personality that hates MC is loud demanding and wants to punish him looks a firey latina with damage. the personality that is in love with him like a trad wifelooks like an asian(stop, im not saying this is what asian and latina women are like dont go there, simply using generalizations that exist of them in entertainment media)

im not arguing this is the case, just a thought exercise for people trying to guess where the story is heading. strangely enough, this would fit into an ODS style twist ending

 

[Maviarab]

It was a touching scene

LOL....Did we see the same scene?

yet... she still does it

Now look on to the rest of Act 3 Vegas, Lacey's actions, her behavior, her reasoning, her "knowing" of the issues as they occurred... It just gets worse and worse on this front, but Lacey is growing? I don't see it

All of this. She is going backwards for the sake of focrced drama...nothing to do with mental health, healing, love or anything else. She a dispicable character.

 

[majdaddin]

This game in 1 sentence, from MC GUY:



Does noone learn anything ever? Yes, that's how stupid real life works, but it's not how an interesting story goes! Even with skipping most of mc-Lacey conversation it's sooooo much of the same dialogue over and over. Could be an amazing story with hot art if the dialogue was 1/4.

 

[KseiPo]

Can you explain on what arguments you are basing your response.. ? Thx!

I think you are making an assumption here. There is no indication that the story has anything to do with L&J, the professor simply stated he wanted to make something to "try and hurt his own feelings" and this was the result.

While it does share some very generic story elements, I would be careful to inject that as being representative of the characters from L&J.

Of course I don't say that its definitely the same story just told differently. Its just very similar in some aspects. Its my assumption, that they might have similar roots and thus similar fruits.

If this is how story develops and ends here, then may be the same idea hides behind the L&J story in general. They are both written by the same author at the same time (more or less). So I suppose that author is experiencing same emotions and same thoughts, so the creative results might also be similar.

 

[Cenc]

LOL....Did we see the same scene?

Her painting the picture of her and the MC and other aspects of their life - yeah, it was touching.

 

[monkeyqueen]

This game in 1 sentence, from MC GUY:

Does noone learn anything ever? Yes, that's how stupid real life works, but it's not how an interesting story goes! Even with skipping most of mc-Lacey conversation it's sooooo much of the same dialogue over and over. Could be an amazing story with hot art if the dialogue was 1/4.

The fun is trying to figure out why they never learn

 

[majdaddin]

The fun is trying to figure out why they never learn

You know they're not real people, right? Maybe it's just bad writing/storytelling? You don't try to figure out why the action movie car explodes when it rolls over. You accept that it's a bad action movie where everything has to explode.

After playing ep 2 I was enthralled. During playing ep 3 I'm completely turned off. This is the craziest writing. Every conversation is 5000 lines long, and the same as every previous conversation. It's not realistic, AND not sexy. That's not a good combination for a sexy story.

It certainly is 'a different kind of NTR story', but I don't know if it's better...

 

[monkeyqueen]

You know they're not real people, right?

Goddamn it! Why didn't anyone tell me this earlier?

Maybe it's just bad writing/storytelling? You don't try to figure out why the action movie car explodes when it rolls over. You accept that it's a bad action movie where everything has to explode.

Always a possibility - but this author been able to pull of an unreliable narrator story with switching POVs which is one of the hardest (if not the hardest) literary forms to pull of successfully. I could be fooling myself but I think he's a good writer - indeed I wouldn't be playing the game otherwise because the sex scenes actually make me want to avoid sex. Could have used this game during no nut nov . . .

 

[funnythings3785]

You know they're not real people, right? Maybe it's just bad writing/storytelling? You don't try to figure out why the action movie car explodes when it rolls over. You accept that it's a bad action movie where everything has to explode.

After playing ep 2 I was enthralled. During playing ep 3 I'm completely turned off. This is the craziest writing. Every conversation is 5000 lines long, and the same as every previous conversation. It's not realistic, AND not sexy. That's not a good combination for a sexy story.

It certainly is 'a different kind of NTR story', but I don't know if it's better...

It isn't supposed to be a "sexy" story.

 

[pater_dick]

From patreon:

 

[Lady Lydia]

I'd forgotten about the MC's "word vomit" (I loathe that term, but it is what it is) This is the clearest realisation he's ever had - He get's it - Lacey didn't owe him anything whilst she was in college, I strongly feel she should have reached out to the MC, she should have realised the damage ignoring him was doing.

Her saying she thought he was doing fine, clearly anyone getting multiple messages a day would realise that person is not doing fine. Though we never see the content of those messages we are told that he was desperate for her to reach out to him - it's clear Lacey chose to ignore him, perhaps she really believed he was better off without her, but given she herself has stated that she wanted to be able to love him like he deserved - she was aware of her actions, at least until "phase 3".

Does that make her a bad person? Arguably - I'm going to err on the side that she really believed leaving him alone was the best option, she herself states it wasn't until "phase 2" when she all but forgot about the MC (except the constant messages, and listening to happy birthday on repeat) ... so... I feel I'm deluding myself here.

Should the MC hold her actions (the sleeping around specifically) during college against her ...who boy now that's a can of worms I just don't have time to open yet.

Let's put aside the college years for one moment, Lacey has cheated on the MC - she slept with Damien and she wanted to. That much is born out through her words and from the fact the MC withdrew his consent *whilst she was sober* he specifically said before she left "Do not do this" and she ignored that and did it anyway.

There are also the messages where the MC again reiterates that he does not want her to do it, she reads them and ignores them. Now this could be when she is drunk and off her nut on K which may excuse that. She forces Anna to sleep with the MC - this is to aswage her guilt, it's a very selfish move by her (and the MC is a stupid dick for going through with it) Lacey knew Anna loves the MC, she used her to make herself feel less guilty, and Anna just doesn't have the will power to say no.

This probably has done more damage to the relationship and the MC's mental faculties than any of them realise. But of course, good 'ole Gristle, he can forgive and forget Anna, but not Lacey, oh no, not her - She must be punished, she must hurt.

Yes, Lacey has cheated on the MC, but the MC has cheated on Lacey. The difference (at least in the first 3 acts) is that the MC did it whilst sober. Does that make a difference? The MC and Jeanette believed it does when it comes to Lacey and Damien.

As an aside, whilst I'm "vomiting words" Lacey had some catharsis with at least 3 of the men from college. It was a touching scene and was good, positive progress. But after the end, I wanted to know when Lacey was going to have her cathartic moment with Mia. What Mia did to her in college is near on unforgivable (unless you're the MC, then it's just tits O'clock I'll forgive you Mia) Lacey needs to get angry at her. Both her and Mia will not heal without it. (maybe this has happened off screen) but I will point out, Mia is activly trying to break them up - hell she's even shipped in a replacement!

About the MC cheating on Lacey, well he only does if the players chose for him to do so, Lacey gave him a 'free pass' week, so it doesn't count for cheating when your partner gives you permission, unlike the MC that repeatedly tried to rescind his agreement with her and she ignored it and went on to cuck him, the MC held on to the agreement, Lacey hadn't said her free pass only applied to Anna, so him sleeping with Kelly was still within their agreement, so it wasn't cheating, she wasn't happy about it because she felt threaten by her, but it was still within the free pass she had offered him. Outside of player decisions, the MC never cheat on Lacey. Tell me one time the MC did anything without our input that could be deemed as cheating, as in it wasn't with Lacey's consent to some degree, either specific or open ended consent.

Its not up to us to judge what happen within the confine of a marriage, so long as consent is given, we have no right to judge individuals having sex with people outside their marriage, so yes at the end of the day unless players willed it to happen the MC never cheat on Lacey, however she cheated in every ways conceivable on him, refuse to acknowledge he wanting out of the arrangement she had imposed upon him, refused to abide by the rules they both agreed to, betrayed her own claims that certain actions were reserved for him exclusively, humiliated him brutally during the live video.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Of course I don't say that its definitely the same story just told differently. Its just very similar in some aspects. Its my assumption, that they might have similar roots and thus similar fruits.

If this is how story develops and ends here, then may be the same idea hides behind the L&J story in general. They are both written by the same author at the same time (more or less). So I suppose that author is experiencing same emotions and same thoughts, so the creative results might also be similar.

Augusta has a completely different vibe to L&J, first its a heavily supernatural narrative, second the MC of Augusta is troubled but by no mean broken, the women around him are troubled, but by no mean broken either, their are no FMC, the MC begin single and inform that he hasn't been in relationships for ages, if you go into Augusta expecting something like this, you'll be for either a rough or pleasant wake up depending on your tastes.

Augusta is far better paced than this, some drama but properly spaced between bouts of good feelings, unlike this game which just hammer you with the drama and hardly ever give us time to have good feelings. Their is also an air of mystery that is far more interesting than with this story because while here much of the mystery is basically how can a house of cards hold standing amidst an hurricane, the mystery in Augusta is in the supernatural that is the driving force of the narrative.

 

[Cenc]

About the MC cheating on Lacey, well he only does if the players chose for him to do so, Lacey gave him a 'free pass' week, so it doesn't count for cheating when your partner gives you permission, unlike the MC that repeatedly tried to rescind his agreement with her and she ignored it and went on to cuck him, the MC held on to the agreement, Lacey hadn't said her free pass only applied to Anna, so him sleeping with Kelly was still within their agreement, so it wasn't cheating, she wasn't happy about it because she felt threaten by her, but it was still within the free pass she had offered him. Outside of player decisions, the MC never cheat on Lacey. Tell me one time the MC did anything without our input that could be deemed as cheating, as in it wasn't with Lacey's consent to some degree, either specific or open ended consent.

That's a good point.

It's true Anna sleeping with the MC was with Lacey's consent, though I'd argue it was only to sooth her guilty conscience rather than her actually wanting him to do it - we will probably disagree on that point.

However the MC (if taking the naughty boy route) gets handjobs / blowjobs outside of the free pass. It's not sex - (and not penetrative.. well... you know what I mean) but it IS cheating. I have not finished my naughty boy play through yet, but my guys been sucked off twice and has yet to tell Lacey about it. (he may do later, if so don't spoil). True that it's the player making those decisions, the only ones forced on us (so far) is Anna and Kelly - and though I'd argue Lacey's consent is questionable, it's still given.

 

[funnythings3785]

About the MC cheating on Lacey, well he only does if the players chose for him to do so, Lacey gave him a 'free pass' week, so it doesn't count for cheating when your partner gives you permission, unlike the MC that repeatedly tried to rescind his agreement with her and she ignored it and went on to cuck him, the MC held on to the agreement, Lacey hadn't said her free pass only applied to Anna, so him sleeping with Kelly was still within their agreement, so it wasn't cheating, she wasn't happy about it because she felt threaten by her, but it was still within the free pass she had offered him. Outside of player decisions, the MC never cheat on Lacey. Tell me one time the MC did anything without our input that could be deemed as cheating, as in it wasn't with Lacey's consent to some degree, either specific or open ended consent.

Its not up to us to judge what happen within the confine of a marriage, so long as consent is given, we have no right to judge individuals having sex with people outside their marriage, so yes at the end of the day unless players willed it to happen the MC never cheat on Lacey, however she cheated in every ways conceivable on him, refuse to acknowledge he wanting out of the arrangement she had imposed upon him, refused to abide by the rules they both agreed to, betrayed her own claims that certain actions were reserved for him exclusively, humiliated him brutally during the live video.

Yep, I think the only action that is story driven to which the player has no choice to avoid is the Anna sex in the earlier chapters. Everything else, you can choose not to interact. You can turn down all of the women, keep them at respectful distance and avoid actions that would complicate the situation. This falls inline with the MCs dialogue on him just wanting to have a normal relationship with Lacey.

Everything that is pushed, is by Lacey (and some of the other girls under specifics). Every attempt to "fix" things, push encounters, "experiments", etc.. IS Lacey. Yet who has suffered the most in this all? The MC pays for every stupid decision or plan she has made, for every bad choice, for every tantrum she has, he has to solve it, fix it, pay for it, and suffer from it.

The base story without player influence to have him act outside of his character is one who doesn't interact at all with the women, doesn't want to, only wants Lacey. I think that sets a very clear issue as it concerns the story and the responsibilities of the characters which is why Lacey (and the girls at times) often end up being the problem in this whole situation. I think this is why the story gets frustrating at times when it glosses over this fact and tries to imply the MC is at fault and has issues outside of their behavior.

I am not saying he would be some picture of mental health without their actions and influence as it concerns the college days and abandonment, but he would be nowhere near the basket case he is without their direct actions in this.

 

[Lady Lydia]

That's a good point.

It's true Anna sleeping with the MC was with Lacey's consent, though I'd argue it was only to sooth her guilty conscience rather than her actually wanting him to do it - we will probably disagree on that point.

However the MC (if taking the naughty boy route) gets handjobs / blowjobs outside of the free pass. It's not sex - (and not penetrative.. well... you know what I mean) but it IS cheating. I have not finished my naughty boy play through yet, but my guys been sucked off twice and has yet to tell Lacey about it. (he may do later, if so don't spoil). True that it's the player making those decisions, the only ones forced on us (so far) is Anna and Kelly - and though I'd argue Lacey's consent is questionable, it's still given.

The problem is at one point we have to distinguish where our agency begins & ends, and where the MC's agency begins & ends, we are the end of the MC's agency, when given an option that we decide for the MC, you choose for the MC to act one way, you are to blame, not the MC.

Tell me if in real life you have the decision to do harm on someone or not do harm someone, are you to blame for the harm that could have happened if you chose not to commit said harm? No. If we understand the notion that we aren't the MC, but we chose for him, it mean the MC can't be held accountable for anything based on our decision making.

If this was a kinetic novel, and the choices the MC made were the ones causing him to cheat on Lacey, well he'd be accountable for that, but this isn't a kinetic novel, so the MC has only real agency when he make decisions, not when we do. See it as a form of mind control, we have the MC under the Imperius Curse, he can't be blamed for what he does when we decide.

 

[funnythings3785]

That's a good point.

It's true Anna sleeping with the MC was with Lacey's consent, though I'd argue it was only to sooth her guilty conscience rather than her actually wanting him to do it - we will probably disagree on that point.

I agree here, Lacey even says she really doesn't want to share him, it hurts her, she gets jealous, etc... but she pushes him because she says he needs to do this, he needs to hurt her (she literally says this in the dialogue if I remember right).

However the MC (if taking the naughty boy route) gets handjobs / blowjobs outside of the free pass. It's not sex - (and not penetrative.. well... you know what I mean) but it IS cheating. I have not finished my naughty boy play through yet, but my guys been sucked off twice and has yet to tell Lacey about it. (he may do later, if so don't spoil). True that it's the player making those decisions, the only ones forced on us (so far) is Anna and Kelly - and though I'd argue Lacey's consent is questionable, it's still given.

I believe all of those decisions are player driven though. You can avoid them which would fall inline with the base characters dialogue concerning infidelity.

 

[duckydoodoo]

Lacey's defines cheating by mood, purpose and whether or not drugs were involved, and sometimes the only defining factor is whether or not there was penetration.

so regardless of Lacey's consent, why she consented and the agency of the player, the MC could always just argue it wasn't cheating, pick one of those variables by making a direct comparison and she would have no leg to stand on.

i know that doesn't make it right, but there is nothing right or healthy about anything that happens in this story.

with the exception of feeling up Bethany's tits, thats the righ thing to do. it was a healing moment(and now the song sexual healing is playing in my head) with a side of sex education... besides, she is a goddess and to argue with or deny her simple request is blasphemy you nay saying heathens

 

[6Lurcher1]

I am enjoying act 3 at the moment. One word: brilliant.