VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[monkeyqueen]

You know they're not real people, right?

Goddamn it! Why didn't anyone tell me this earlier?

Maybe it's just bad writing/storytelling? You don't try to figure out why the action movie car explodes when it rolls over. You accept that it's a bad action movie where everything has to explode.

Always a possibility - but this author been able to pull of an unreliable narrator story with switching POVs which is one of the hardest (if not the hardest) literary forms to pull of successfully. I could be fooling myself but I think he's a good writer - indeed I wouldn't be playing the game otherwise because the sex scenes actually make me want to avoid sex. Could have used this game during no nut nov . . .

 

[funnythings3785]

You know they're not real people, right? Maybe it's just bad writing/storytelling? You don't try to figure out why the action movie car explodes when it rolls over. You accept that it's a bad action movie where everything has to explode.

After playing ep 2 I was enthralled. During playing ep 3 I'm completely turned off. This is the craziest writing. Every conversation is 5000 lines long, and the same as every previous conversation. It's not realistic, AND not sexy. That's not a good combination for a sexy story.

It certainly is 'a different kind of NTR story', but I don't know if it's better...

It isn't supposed to be a "sexy" story.

 

[pater_dick]

From patreon:

 

[Lady Lydia]

I'd forgotten about the MC's "word vomit" (I loathe that term, but it is what it is) This is the clearest realisation he's ever had - He get's it - Lacey didn't owe him anything whilst she was in college, I strongly feel she should have reached out to the MC, she should have realised the damage ignoring him was doing.

Her saying she thought he was doing fine, clearly anyone getting multiple messages a day would realise that person is not doing fine. Though we never see the content of those messages we are told that he was desperate for her to reach out to him - it's clear Lacey chose to ignore him, perhaps she really believed he was better off without her, but given she herself has stated that she wanted to be able to love him like he deserved - she was aware of her actions, at least until "phase 3".

Does that make her a bad person? Arguably - I'm going to err on the side that she really believed leaving him alone was the best option, she herself states it wasn't until "phase 2" when she all but forgot about the MC (except the constant messages, and listening to happy birthday on repeat) ... so... I feel I'm deluding myself here.

Should the MC hold her actions (the sleeping around specifically) during college against her ...who boy now that's a can of worms I just don't have time to open yet.

Let's put aside the college years for one moment, Lacey has cheated on the MC - she slept with Damien and she wanted to. That much is born out through her words and from the fact the MC withdrew his consent *whilst she was sober* he specifically said before she left "Do not do this" and she ignored that and did it anyway.

There are also the messages where the MC again reiterates that he does not want her to do it, she reads them and ignores them. Now this could be when she is drunk and off her nut on K which may excuse that. She forces Anna to sleep with the MC - this is to aswage her guilt, it's a very selfish move by her (and the MC is a stupid dick for going through with it) Lacey knew Anna loves the MC, she used her to make herself feel less guilty, and Anna just doesn't have the will power to say no.

This probably has done more damage to the relationship and the MC's mental faculties than any of them realise. But of course, good 'ole Gristle, he can forgive and forget Anna, but not Lacey, oh no, not her - She must be punished, she must hurt.

Yes, Lacey has cheated on the MC, but the MC has cheated on Lacey. The difference (at least in the first 3 acts) is that the MC did it whilst sober. Does that make a difference? The MC and Jeanette believed it does when it comes to Lacey and Damien.

As an aside, whilst I'm "vomiting words" Lacey had some catharsis with at least 3 of the men from college. It was a touching scene and was good, positive progress. But after the end, I wanted to know when Lacey was going to have her cathartic moment with Mia. What Mia did to her in college is near on unforgivable (unless you're the MC, then it's just tits O'clock I'll forgive you Mia) Lacey needs to get angry at her. Both her and Mia will not heal without it. (maybe this has happened off screen) but I will point out, Mia is activly trying to break them up - hell she's even shipped in a replacement!

About the MC cheating on Lacey, well he only does if the players chose for him to do so, Lacey gave him a 'free pass' week, so it doesn't count for cheating when your partner gives you permission, unlike the MC that repeatedly tried to rescind his agreement with her and she ignored it and went on to cuck him, the MC held on to the agreement, Lacey hadn't said her free pass only applied to Anna, so him sleeping with Kelly was still within their agreement, so it wasn't cheating, she wasn't happy about it because she felt threaten by her, but it was still within the free pass she had offered him. Outside of player decisions, the MC never cheat on Lacey. Tell me one time the MC did anything without our input that could be deemed as cheating, as in it wasn't with Lacey's consent to some degree, either specific or open ended consent.

Its not up to us to judge what happen within the confine of a marriage, so long as consent is given, we have no right to judge individuals having sex with people outside their marriage, so yes at the end of the day unless players willed it to happen the MC never cheat on Lacey, however she cheated in every ways conceivable on him, refuse to acknowledge he wanting out of the arrangement she had imposed upon him, refused to abide by the rules they both agreed to, betrayed her own claims that certain actions were reserved for him exclusively, humiliated him brutally during the live video.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Of course I don't say that its definitely the same story just told differently. Its just very similar in some aspects. Its my assumption, that they might have similar roots and thus similar fruits.

If this is how story develops and ends here, then may be the same idea hides behind the L&J story in general. They are both written by the same author at the same time (more or less). So I suppose that author is experiencing same emotions and same thoughts, so the creative results might also be similar.

Augusta has a completely different vibe to L&J, first its a heavily supernatural narrative, second the MC of Augusta is troubled but by no mean broken, the women around him are troubled, but by no mean broken either, their are no FMC, the MC begin single and inform that he hasn't been in relationships for ages, if you go into Augusta expecting something like this, you'll be for either a rough or pleasant wake up depending on your tastes.

Augusta is far better paced than this, some drama but properly spaced between bouts of good feelings, unlike this game which just hammer you with the drama and hardly ever give us time to have good feelings. Their is also an air of mystery that is far more interesting than with this story because while here much of the mystery is basically how can a house of cards hold standing amidst an hurricane, the mystery in Augusta is in the supernatural that is the driving force of the narrative.

 

[Cenc]

About the MC cheating on Lacey, well he only does if the players chose for him to do so, Lacey gave him a 'free pass' week, so it doesn't count for cheating when your partner gives you permission, unlike the MC that repeatedly tried to rescind his agreement with her and she ignored it and went on to cuck him, the MC held on to the agreement, Lacey hadn't said her free pass only applied to Anna, so him sleeping with Kelly was still within their agreement, so it wasn't cheating, she wasn't happy about it because she felt threaten by her, but it was still within the free pass she had offered him. Outside of player decisions, the MC never cheat on Lacey. Tell me one time the MC did anything without our input that could be deemed as cheating, as in it wasn't with Lacey's consent to some degree, either specific or open ended consent.

That's a good point.

It's true Anna sleeping with the MC was with Lacey's consent, though I'd argue it was only to sooth her guilty conscience rather than her actually wanting him to do it - we will probably disagree on that point.

However the MC (if taking the naughty boy route) gets handjobs / blowjobs outside of the free pass. It's not sex - (and not penetrative.. well... you know what I mean) but it IS cheating. I have not finished my naughty boy play through yet, but my guys been sucked off twice and has yet to tell Lacey about it. (he may do later, if so don't spoil). True that it's the player making those decisions, the only ones forced on us (so far) is Anna and Kelly - and though I'd argue Lacey's consent is questionable, it's still given.

 

[funnythings3785]

About the MC cheating on Lacey, well he only does if the players chose for him to do so, Lacey gave him a 'free pass' week, so it doesn't count for cheating when your partner gives you permission, unlike the MC that repeatedly tried to rescind his agreement with her and she ignored it and went on to cuck him, the MC held on to the agreement, Lacey hadn't said her free pass only applied to Anna, so him sleeping with Kelly was still within their agreement, so it wasn't cheating, she wasn't happy about it because she felt threaten by her, but it was still within the free pass she had offered him. Outside of player decisions, the MC never cheat on Lacey. Tell me one time the MC did anything without our input that could be deemed as cheating, as in it wasn't with Lacey's consent to some degree, either specific or open ended consent.

Its not up to us to judge what happen within the confine of a marriage, so long as consent is given, we have no right to judge individuals having sex with people outside their marriage, so yes at the end of the day unless players willed it to happen the MC never cheat on Lacey, however she cheated in every ways conceivable on him, refuse to acknowledge he wanting out of the arrangement she had imposed upon him, refused to abide by the rules they both agreed to, betrayed her own claims that certain actions were reserved for him exclusively, humiliated him brutally during the live video.

Yep, I think the only action that is story driven to which the player has no choice to avoid is the Anna sex in the earlier chapters. Everything else, you can choose not to interact. You can turn down all of the women, keep them at respectful distance and avoid actions that would complicate the situation. This falls inline with the MCs dialogue on him just wanting to have a normal relationship with Lacey.

Everything that is pushed, is by Lacey (and some of the other girls under specifics). Every attempt to "fix" things, push encounters, "experiments", etc.. IS Lacey. Yet who has suffered the most in this all? The MC pays for every stupid decision or plan she has made, for every bad choice, for every tantrum she has, he has to solve it, fix it, pay for it, and suffer from it.

The base story without player influence to have him act outside of his character is one who doesn't interact at all with the women, doesn't want to, only wants Lacey. I think that sets a very clear issue as it concerns the story and the responsibilities of the characters which is why Lacey (and the girls at times) often end up being the problem in this whole situation. I think this is why the story gets frustrating at times when it glosses over this fact and tries to imply the MC is at fault and has issues outside of their behavior.

I am not saying he would be some picture of mental health without their actions and influence as it concerns the college days and abandonment, but he would be nowhere near the basket case he is without their direct actions in this.

 

[Lady Lydia]

That's a good point.

It's true Anna sleeping with the MC was with Lacey's consent, though I'd argue it was only to sooth her guilty conscience rather than her actually wanting him to do it - we will probably disagree on that point.

However the MC (if taking the naughty boy route) gets handjobs / blowjobs outside of the free pass. It's not sex - (and not penetrative.. well... you know what I mean) but it IS cheating. I have not finished my naughty boy play through yet, but my guys been sucked off twice and has yet to tell Lacey about it. (he may do later, if so don't spoil). True that it's the player making those decisions, the only ones forced on us (so far) is Anna and Kelly - and though I'd argue Lacey's consent is questionable, it's still given.

The problem is at one point we have to distinguish where our agency begins & ends, and where the MC's agency begins & ends, we are the end of the MC's agency, when given an option that we decide for the MC, you choose for the MC to act one way, you are to blame, not the MC.

Tell me if in real life you have the decision to do harm on someone or not do harm someone, are you to blame for the harm that could have happened if you chose not to commit said harm? No. If we understand the notion that we aren't the MC, but we chose for him, it mean the MC can't be held accountable for anything based on our decision making.

If this was a kinetic novel, and the choices the MC made were the ones causing him to cheat on Lacey, well he'd be accountable for that, but this isn't a kinetic novel, so the MC has only real agency when he make decisions, not when we do. See it as a form of mind control, we have the MC under the Imperius Curse, he can't be blamed for what he does when we decide.

 

[funnythings3785]

That's a good point.

It's true Anna sleeping with the MC was with Lacey's consent, though I'd argue it was only to sooth her guilty conscience rather than her actually wanting him to do it - we will probably disagree on that point.

I agree here, Lacey even says she really doesn't want to share him, it hurts her, she gets jealous, etc... but she pushes him because she says he needs to do this, he needs to hurt her (she literally says this in the dialogue if I remember right).

However the MC (if taking the naughty boy route) gets handjobs / blowjobs outside of the free pass. It's not sex - (and not penetrative.. well... you know what I mean) but it IS cheating. I have not finished my naughty boy play through yet, but my guys been sucked off twice and has yet to tell Lacey about it. (he may do later, if so don't spoil). True that it's the player making those decisions, the only ones forced on us (so far) is Anna and Kelly - and though I'd argue Lacey's consent is questionable, it's still given.

I believe all of those decisions are player driven though. You can avoid them which would fall inline with the base characters dialogue concerning infidelity.

 

[duckydoodoo]

Lacey's defines cheating by mood, purpose and whether or not drugs were involved, and sometimes the only defining factor is whether or not there was penetration.

so regardless of Lacey's consent, why she consented and the agency of the player, the MC could always just argue it wasn't cheating, pick one of those variables by making a direct comparison and she would have no leg to stand on.

i know that doesn't make it right, but there is nothing right or healthy about anything that happens in this story.

with the exception of feeling up Bethany's tits, thats the righ thing to do. it was a healing moment(and now the song sexual healing is playing in my head) with a side of sex education... besides, she is a goddess and to argue with or deny her simple request is blasphemy you nay saying heathens

 

[6Lurcher1]

I am enjoying act 3 at the moment. One word: brilliant.

 

[WannabeShady90]

Oh boy, I love this thread. Since monkeyqueen seems to be so obsessed with the idea that everything is Captain SaveAHoe's fault and Lacey is mostly just a victim of circumstances, I've been brainstorming a little bit and want to give a little food for thought. I've created an alternate version of the current storyline. The only differences will be:

--> Captain SaveAHoe will actually seek treatment after leaving college. (please seek treatment if you suffer from a mental illness)
--> My version of Captain SaveAHoe is all out of saving hoes and is instead Red Captain (because he's mentally sane now)
--> Red Captain is eather Commander of #ShipAnna #ShipKelly or #ShipBethany
--> All previously mentioned #Ships are polar opposites of #ShipLacey as mentioned in the current storyline
--> If the reader feels particularly sadistic, Red Captain will still be married to Lacey
--> I don't endorse cheating, so my Red Captain will be solo after Graduation, but will start a relationship with Anna after dating for a while
--> All characters will basically still have the same motivations
--> I will mostly use existing material, but I will change one scene and add one completly new scene. Mostly the context will change

So, let's teach Lacey a lesson she will never forget, shall we?

 

[justahornydude53]

OK, so I'm not this update yet (man they're big) but I just thought of something that would cause an interesting dynamic in the MC's mental state. I just got to the part where Emilio openly flirted with Lacey in front of him and of course he's getting all up inside his head. The 3 girls - not Lacey should just maul him like I mean all out fucking maul him and make Lacey watch. I know he'd fight it off but it would definitely help his self esteem and I think it would turn on Lacey and piss her off at the same time. Just a thought because these people are just seriously fucked up lol

 

[Lady Lydia]

Personally my take is that anything sexual the MC can do is something he is entitled to do. Lacey hard cheated on him, betrayed him, and what justice did he get? None, retribution? None, compensation? None. The free pass was something already bestowed upon the MC by Lacey before she hard cheated on him, only sometime later she decided what he needed in addition to a pass to fuck anyone for a week, was for her to cheat on him to prove sex with others doesn't matter.

So those handjobs and blowjobs you can get from the other girls? He earned the right for those, Lacey never gave him back anything for her hard cheating on him, sure she might have pushed him to date around some other girls, but do dating equate to cheating, betrayal & humiliation? Not remotely.

I'd argue its one of the things that has fucked the MC, the fact that after everything Lacey keep doing he never get anything back, oh he get to fuck is wife, how magnanimous, he get some kinky sex, that is wife seem more enthusiastic about then him, he got nothing for his own benefit out of it, pretty much, just her own benefit.

Look at Vegas, he spent 8k on the girl's day and what did he get? Oh he got to visit the same spa for a massage, he got to visit the gay bar again to talk to the guy he had the day before, he visited a Dominatrix, he does nothing at the spa or Dominatrix because first I consider the Dev on this to have been lazy, after wasting 8k the previous day and being treated like trash him getting to actually fucking those women would have been the minimum he is entitled to.

But that is the problem really, from the start of the game he has been told he isn't entitled to his pain, to his anger, to his grief, Lacey is always justified, some of the girls around him have in many cases taken to justify her too, so now he think he is a bad man, because he has been told he isn't entitled to his feelings, not entitled to any rewards, any compensations, any justice or retribution. He is expected to live and let live, so its breaking his mind.

Reality is it would have been far healthier for his mental health for him to have sex with various women / girls, the meagre sexual activities that he does under our control enable him to release a minute amount of mental steam. If he had been allowed to experience relief, to experience giving Lacey some of those feelings she has forced him to endure over and over, it would have done him a whole lot of good, instead he is expected to be a cuck, to do nothing sexual with anyone but Lacey and marginally Anna, all the while Lacey keep having anything from intimate actions to sexual activities with other men.

And after it happen they keep telling him its fine because she was drugged, not in her right mind, because she was trying to teach him something, she refused to take the blame and several others have taken to support her in this pattern, so where do the blame go? To the MC, he isn't allowed to blame his wife, not really, and those guys aren't around for him to blame, so the blame ends up with him, and its destroying him.

 

[Lady Lydia]

OK, so I'm not this update yet (man they're big) but I just thought of something that would cause an interesting dynamic in the MC's mental state. I just got to the part where Emilio openly flirted with Lacey in front of him and of course he's getting all up inside his head. The 3 girls - not Lacey should just maul him like I mean all out fucking maul him and make Lacey watch. I know he'd fight it off but it would definitely help his self esteem and I think it would turn on Lacey and piss her off at the same time. Just a thought because these people are just seriously fucked up lol

It would have been good, but two things one the magic drug they used made it so every single one of them pretty much ignored the MC existence unless for narrative convenience, second Abby had the thought of that day for the singular purpose of breaking the MC enough for him to get angry and accept to blame Lacey for his anger, so anything that would have actually turned against that purpose couldn't be allowed by the narrative to happen. In other words, Jeanette should have been all over him all that day, even Lacey should have, but because Deus Ex Machina narrative required them to act like slabs of ice toward him it was all ignored.

Its why whenever I see people basically giving a verbal blowie to the Dev for this game I roll my eyes, because this game is insanely flawed in many ways, sure it has its good, and it has its interests, but so many people just ignore the absurd inconsistencies and bullshit to a absolutely mentally debilitating degree, some people out there are capable of giving themselves a lobotomy at will it seem, because this is the only way I can understand them not noting the issues this game has.

 

[NewGuy2022]

Yeah, he is extremely drastic in his change, but it seems the professor views him as a favorite and wants him to be a positive element in the story (similar to Mia). I too find him growing on me, which makes it a bit frustrating and that is likely because his change is so quick and forced. It is also why I take issues with Lacey and many of the other characters as there isn't enough explanation and process for them to move to the new character states, they just transition to whatever is needed to progress a given scene or story flow they currently are in.

I think this also may cause suspicion in the characters themselves. Him and Mia I was certain were on a path of some type of devious motive, but then... "poof", they are absolved and start acting completely different, no lead up, no foreshadow, etc... We are just to accept it and move on and so the development of "growth" seems lacking and the element of suspicion is lost in the process.

Lacey has the same issue now with me (and some of the other girls). She was showing a nice progression and then... "poof", now I am not sure if this is just writing issues, or... is she now becoming a bad person of devious intent (the unanswered issues of he behavior in Act 3 which show extreme lack of concern for the MC).

It is quite confusing.

Exactly. Between this dynamic and the opening remark about narration perhaps not being truth... ...I'm struggling with trying to understand what's really happening in the story. Not being a conspiracy theorist at all; I just am unsure which things I saw and read were "true" inside the story, which "changed" to support the plot, and which deliberately were misremembered by characters/narrator due to 'brain damage' or trauma...

Christine's change makes sense to me after she learned she was being "used" to smear the MC but the others (esp. Isaac and Mia)? Seems kinda fake or "off." I mean, what next: will Barty suddenly be a good guy???

I truly despise Isaac's character for the things he did (or at least we were shown that he did ???) but by the end of Act 3, he seems to be the only decent guy in the story besides Jamie, I suppose (???) It's hard to understand how an adult could change that much that quickly. FWIW, I'm pretty confused, too. I'm replaying the story to try to see things I missed or ignored on my first run through.

 

[funnythings3785]

Personally my take is that anything sexual the MC can do is something he is entitled to do. Lacey hard cheated on him, betrayed him, and what justice did he get? None, retribution? None, compensation? None. The free pass was something already bestowed upon the MC by Lacey before she hard cheated on him, only sometime later she decided what he needed in addition to a pass to fuck anyone for a week, was for her to cheat on him to prove sex with others doesn't matter.

So those handjobs and blowjobs you can get from the other girls? He earned the right for those, Lacey never gave him back anything for her hard cheating on him, sure she might have pushed him to date around some other girls, but do dating equate to cheating, betrayal & humiliation? Not remotely.

I'd argue its one of the things that has fucked the MC, the fact that after everything Lacey keep doing he never get anything back, oh he get to fuck is wife, how magnanimous, he get some kinky sex, that is wife seem more enthusiastic about then him, he got nothing for his own benefit out of it, pretty much, just her own benefit.

Look at Vegas, he spent 8k on the girl's day and what did he get? Oh he got to visit the same spa for a massage, he got to visit the gay bar again to talk to the guy he had the day before, he visited a Dominatrix, he does nothing at the spa or Dominatrix because first I consider the Dev on this to have been lazy, after wasting 8k the previous day and being treated like trash him getting to actually fucking those women would have been the minimum he is entitled to.

But that is the problem really, from the start of the game he has been told he isn't entitled to his pain, to his anger, to his grief, Lacey is always justified, some of the girls around him have in many cases taken to justify her too, so now he think he is a bad man, because he has been told he isn't entitled to his feelings, not entitled to any rewards, any compensations, any justice or retribution. He is expected to live and let live, so its breaking his mind.

Reality is it would have been far healthier for his mental health for him to have sex with various women / girls, the meagre sexual activities that he does under our control enable him to release a minute amount of mental steam. If he had been allowed to experience relief, to experience giving Lacey some of those feelings she has forced him to endure over and over, it would have done him a whole lot of good, instead he is expected to be a cuck, to do nothing sexual with anyone but Lacey and marginally Anna, all the while Lacey keep having anything from intimate actions to sexual activities with other men.

And after it happen they keep telling him its fine because she was drugged, not in her right mind, because she was trying to teach him something, she refused to take the blame and several others have taken to support her in this pattern, so where do the blame go? To the MC, he isn't allowed to blame his wife, not really, and those guys aren't around for him to blame, so the blame ends up with him, and its destroying him.

I disagree on if it would be helpful to him. Consider the type of personality he has, the view on sex, relationships, etc... and also consider his view on cheating, sharing, etc...

He doesn't have a positive view on it. In fact, it is often the center of his issues. Notice how anytime he "does something", he agonizes over it, beats himself up, worries about how it would make Lacey feel, that he betrayed her, etc... He doesn't like it, even if it is completely approved by Lacey. His trepidation before and remorse after is consistent in this.

I would speculate based on his dialogue, his reactions and the like concerning it that is because he views it as wrong and unhealthy because he views it from a position of a person who not only doesn't want to share Lacey, but has experienced the hurt that comes from having to deal with such an action by Lacey.

He enjoys it in the moment, he enjoys the connection it brings to the girls he interacts and cares about, but as I said... he sees and feels the harm of it. Look how much he is concerned for Lacey after a date where he simply "kisses" Anna, he still obsesses over it hurting her, how it makes her feel, etc... why? Because he feels the very same way when she does it to him.

While you may have an argument in terms of "justification" of him doing such things at times, the reality is... it really isn't good for him, he doesn't want it because it harms him, and ultimately Lacey which has already stated in past dialogue that it does...

I guess I don't see how "harming" the person you love regardless if they may "deserve" it is a healthy thing for the relationship (which is why I think Lacey's plan isn't a good idea and really just "porn logic" as it concerns the issues).

This is one of the things I think conflicts with his character. He is written in the way I described, but then all the "sex maniac" stuff is kind of shoe horned into the character and it feels out of place when you consider his base character position. I think to make those things "help" him is going to end up feeling the same way, you just "accept" it because... <porn logic>.

 

[Lady Lydia]

I disagree on if it would be helpful to him. Consider the type of personality he has, the view on sex, relationships, etc... and also consider his view on cheating, sharing, etc...

He doesn't have a positive view on it. In fact, it is often the center of his issues. Notice how anytime he "does something", he agonizes over it, beats himself up, worries about how it would make Lacey feel, that he betrayed her, etc... He doesn't like it, even if it is completely approved by Lacey. His trepidation before and remorse after is consistent in this.

I would speculate based on his dialogue, his reactions and the like concerning it that is because he views it as wrong and unhealthy because he views it from a position of a person who not only doesn't want to share Lacey, but has experienced the hurt that comes from having to deal with such an action by Lacey.

He enjoys it in the moment, he enjoys the connection it brings to the girls he interacts and cares about, but as I said... he sees and feels the harm of it. Look how much he is concerned for Lacey after a date where he simply "kisses" Anna, he still obsesses over it hurting her, how it makes her feel, etc... why? Because he feels the very same way when she does it to him.

While you may have an argument in terms of "justification" of him doing such things at times, the reality is... it really isn't good for him, he doesn't want it because it harms him, and ultimately Lacey which has already stated in past dialogue that it does...

I guess I don't see how "harming" the person you love regardless if they may "deserve" it is a healthy thing for the relationship (which is why I think Lacey's plan isn't a good idea and really just "porn logic" as it concerns the issues).

This is one of the things I think conflicts with his character. He is written in the way I described, but then all the "sex maniac" stuff is kind of shoe horned into the character and it feels out of place when you consider his base character position. I think to make those things "help" him is going to end up feeling the same way, you just "accept" it because... <porn logic>.

Its not porn logic that dictate it would help him, its biology & biochemistry, its how men are built, sex is a relief valve for their psyche, from a psychological perspective he might bitch about it, it might not match his personality, but from a physical point of view the relief would have been very good to help sooth him, Hell its also applicable to a lesser degree to women, although women have also complex emotional needs on top of the physical needs, which is what make relationships with other women so important for women.

If you don't agree with me on that point, well its not a matter of opinion, its fact, look it up, its how humans work, so you can say it doesn't match his personality, it doesn't matter because those elements bypass the mental into the realm of biology and biochemistry, which dictate the absolute reality of life, unlike the mental which is merely a matter of personal perspective.

Look you obviously value more religion based societal concerns over biological concerns that existed for millions of years, but relatively modern (anything less than the stone age) are irrelevant to the reality of humanity, nature made us this way, you can deny it all you want, but it doesn't change anything.

Its literally known that humans when put under sustained duress seek out sex, why do you think rape is actually the most common war crime that is hardly talked about in the aftermath of every wars. Sex is the primordial mean thru which humans can relieve themselves from a ton of mental pressure, so no matter what personality or psychological predilection dictate it works.

 

[funnythings3785]

Exactly. Between this dynamic and the opening remark about narration perhaps not being truth... ...I'm struggling with trying to understand what's really happening in the story. Not being a conspiracy theorist at all; I just am unsure which things I saw and read were "true" inside the story, which "changed" to support the plot, and which deliberately were misremembered by characters/narrator due to 'brain damage' or trauma...

Christine's change makes sense to me after she learned she was being "used" to smear the MC but the others (esp. Isaac and Mia)? Seems kinda fake or "off." I mean, what next: will Barty suddenly be a good guy???

I truly despise Isaac's character for the things he did (or at least we were shown that he did ???) but by the end of Act 3, he seems to be the only decent guy in the story besides Jamie, I suppose (???) It's hard to understand how an adult could change that much that quickly. FWIW, I'm pretty confused, too. I'm replaying the story to try to see things I missed or ignored on my first run through.

Yeah, things are confusing and the character transitions are way fast, there isn't enough build up. The change in Lacey being more... inconsiderate about the whole issues of Vegas is a confusing one as well. Should have been more talks, more confessions, realizations, and remorse on many things... but none (same with all the girls to be honest).

One thing keeps gnawing at me though... I viewed the bedroom scene again with the exes... and well... beginning dialogue seems odd and heavily suggests... something else was going on. I am thinking the professor was writing in a way to increase drama, but it made little sense all things considered.

Each one is called up, she does something... but the comments within them are... well... odd. For instance, telling Lorenzo something along the lines of "look, you finished just as quickly as you always do" and Issac with "I am much bigger, it is going to take longer for me isn't it?" Also, she breathes heavy, and says things like "fuck yeah" as if she reached a climax or something at the end of Isaacs part.

The dialogue is... odd... but like I said, probably "in the moment" attempt to produce some drama before it is revealed she is going off on them and hates them for their part in everything.

Still gnaws at me though... Maybe she was painting their dicks?

Regardless, that scene while at times I see the merit in her confrontation, just has so many problems of inconsideration in "how" it happened. I think there would have been a much better way for that to have occurred, even as Mia said, bringing it up to the MC and asking him about doing it, or heck... having it all done in a session with her therapist. That would have at least given some respect to the MC rather than yet again, him having to carry the burden of the suspicion and worry that would have occurred (if the MC wasn't so easily written a way out of it).

 

[DeviantFun]

Yeah, I imagine a few of my extreme negative posts likely didn't sit well with some as well.

I never saw your posts as overtly negative.

You gave a strong opinion as a fan, that is it.

You paid attention and read the novel instead of skipping it like many, and just pointed out where you think it went wrong.

It is a stark difference between the gender wars trolling, the death threats to either L or MC.

Criticism is alright in my book, I received plenty when I used to write and it helped me (when given with good intentions).