VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[monkeyqueen]

Just to remind you that even with an unrealiable narrator, it does not mean they are *always* unrealiable. Only that some of what they tell you cannot always be taken as truthful.

To throw out everything you read as lies is to miss the idea, that even an unreliable narrator can tell the truth sometimes - though when that truth is told to us is not always obvious... almost like.. it's.. unreliable

I will admit however the Dev uses the same words at the start of his other games, so I initially just took it as a stock 'text before the game' instead of it actually being a used literary device.

Which I guess, just makes things more interesting.

Good point! No not everything he says is wrong. You need to look for patterns - and his pattern is Maddona / Whore. (like so many of the games on this site)

He's an incel who believes that sex is dirty and women have sex with multiple partners are whores who deserve to be punished. That's the pattern to look for - when is he does he believe his rage is justified and what is distorting to justify his rage? And the answer is blaming everything on his wife

Glad we agree on the monster theory. I suspect that moment that comes early when he has a unwanted thought about how he would be a better abuser than the previous men because he knows how to push Lacey's buttons is a critically important moment. Tyler Durden has been doing some dirty work behind the scenes . . .

 

[monkeyqueen]

No offense, but your arguments are turning into a stereotype.

Lol. How could I not take offense at that?! "No offense but your reading and reasoning skills are marginal at best" But don't take it personally, dummy.

But lay it on me - what stereotype?

 

[AL.d]

I'm giving you d minus for reading comprehension.



That is true. The point is that "when in doubt, the woman is at fault" is a sexist trope that both MC's have accepted and internalized. So there is pattern



Yes. They are all insane in different ways and I have guesses as to the diagnoses for each. Are you really going to deny that Christine has daddy issues?

Is daddy issues your medical term for schizophrenia or any other disorder involving delusion? At this point I have to concede that I fell for a good troll, because there is no way someone on here is truly trying to make argument about every different PoV shown in this game, coming from a delusional character.

At this point the take itself becomes delusional.

 

[funnythings3785]

Lol. How could I not take offense at that?! "No offense but your reading and reasoning skills are marginal at best" But don't take it personally, dummy.

But lay it on me - what stereotype?

Remmeber how you are so "attuned" to intent? That is the point of saying "no offense".

As for what, honestly... at this point, and from your past discussion, I doubt anything I say will be taken with honest reflection, so you make it up, you seem to be good at determining what was meant without what was said. knock yourself out!

 

[monkeyqueen]

Is daddy issues your medical term for schizophrenia or any other disorder involving delusion?

I'm honestly not trolling. Neither will I only stick to DSM definitions. Christine has daddy issues. Full stop.

I mean she literally calls Gristle "daddy". This is story about a group of crazy people

"happy families are all alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" - The Anna Karenina principle.

This is a story about an unhappy "family" and, now that I think about it, it shares some things with that classic "NTR" story - because there are these pivotal moments when the tragedy could be ended with just one moment of honesty . . .



I'm being dead ass serious.

 

[monkeyqueen]

Remmeber how you are so "attuned" to intent? That is the point of saying "no offense".

Remember when Gristle acknowledges that some of his behavior could be classified as passive aggressive?

 

[radical686]

Any psychiatrist will tell you that you need to leave the source of your mental problems behind. Imagine telling a drug addict "just use more drugs because you are addicted to drugs". Should Captain SaveAHoe seek therapy? Absolutly. Will it be hard? Absolutly. I had a severe depression and PTSD around 10 years ago because I surrounded myself with the wrong people. As I've stated, I'm painfully aware what (child)abuse and drug addiction can do to a person. I used to feel empathy for those people. but they tend to destroy everything around them. As you can probably imagine, I tried to save a few people around me as well, because I also naivly thought I could change anything. My mental health suffered greatly, but those people just descended further into the abyss. Red flags are red flags for a reason and Lacey has so many of them (Abuser, Manipulator, Gaslighter, Self-Harm, Toxic friend group, Drug Addict, high body count, just to name a few) it isn't even funny. It will always end the same way - in a tragedy. I left all those people behind and never looked back. That is the healthy thing to do. Captain SaveAHoe should have asked Anna (loyal, faithful, mostly honest, low body count) to leave the city after college together and start a new life. He should've seeked treatment in college, if not even way earlier. He should've cut contact with the people weighing him down (mostly Lacey and Mia) and ghosted them completly.

The main thing you are missing in Lady Lydia's comment is that the MC is broken and needs therapy too. His whole life has been about Lacey. This game is not about what the MC should do. It's an exploration of jealousy through the lens of codependency.

You focus entirely on Lacey's brokenness and past experiences, but dismiss the MCs codependent relationship with her.

Yes, people need to leave the source of their problems behind, but even a drug addict needs to understand the why of their addiction to truly get past it. You don't just tell them to stop being an addict because it harms them, and then expect them to simply listen (even if that is the best thing for them) and stop being an addict. There's a reason therapist talks about stages of recovering. Recognizing you have a problem and the why of it is key.

Your description of your past indicates you recognize the need to understand the why of your problems. The salient part of this story has taking place in less than a year so far, and by your own admission it took you ten to figure out your own issues. That's not a knock on you, it's a recognition that sometimes these things take time. You may have been able to figure these things out by yourself, w/o the help of a therapist, but it can be harder and take more time.

 

[funnythings3785]

Remember when Gristle acknowledges that some of his behavior could be classified as passive aggressive?

You aren't responding as per someone who reads/listens, but one who assumes and concludes. Something you have been doing this entire time.

That is ok, you don't have to listen to what I say, you only have to assume what I mean right?

 

[apven333]

Still playing game. Lacey's stream is the absolute vile disgusting shit. Not because of content, but emotional damage, according to plot. Congrats dev, you made it.

 

[monkeyqueen]

You aren't responding as per someone who reads/listens, but one who assumes and concludes. Something you have been doing this entire time.

That is ok, you don't have to listen to what I say, you only have to assume what I mean right?

That's both accurate and not. I have agreed with things that both Cenc and AL.d have said. But it's bit harder for you and I to agree because with those two I start from a common starting place - they agree that the MC is unreliable narrator and they want to make the point that I shouldn't get too carried away with it whereas your position that is that the unreliable narrator statement from the dev only applies to act 1.

Because we don't have common basis from which to start and discover where we differ and where we agree it's harder for you and I to come to a point of agreement.

I am sorry that Lady Lydia and I don't agree because she and I have agreed in the past and I always value her contributions but, likewise, we don't share a starting point. She see fails to see rants about "sluts, whore and cumbuckets" as expressions of misogyny on the part of the MC and so it has been hard to discover points of agreement. Even if I agree with many of the other things she has said in unrelated posts.

 

[Cenc]

He's an incel who believes that sex is dirty and women have sex with multiple partners are whores who deserve to be punished. That's the pattern to look for - when is he does he believe his rage is justified and what is distorting to justify his rage? And the answer is blaming everything on his wife

I would perhaps maybe tailor it to "he was an incel in college due to 'waiting' for Lacey". However currently he is having frequent sex with Lacey and, if you play a 'naughty boy points' route, arguably is pursuing relationships with all of the girls. (I haven't actually finished this route yet since I've only done a 'pure' route (like I'd ever cheat on Lacey!!) and I also have my own game to make lol) So things may change on this route.

I do agree that he views what Lacey did as something that needs to be punished - this is born out by the fact he's always so quick to forgive everyone else - almost to the point I'm slapping my face begging for him to get angry, to say "That's not okay". Act 3 - the way Abbey treated the girls (and more so Lacey who already has a drug dependency) and the MC is just "nah, we're cool - I guess we can fuck later or something"

No. We're not cool. Abbey is NOT a healthy influence - but the MC forgives and forgets far too easily - but when Lacey needs it, MC just cannot bring himself to do it.

That is until the video of Lacey and Jeanette in the BDSM - The MC shows growth for once (Finally!) and just deletes the video! I was so happy at this - and then we just cannot catch a break...

I'm not sure I agree that the MC is wanting to replace her abusers, though I do feel that he should step back from being just another abuser, no matter how much Lacey may ask for it and consent (at least we're presented with the idea she consented - but you know... unreliable narrator.) I do feel the MC should work with her to resolve these issues another way. - I mean, that's what a healthy relationship would do... right?

I really am rootin' for Lacey and the MC though. Even though they both are broken (I mean, they all are in various ways) I believe in the romanticism of their story, I want them to succeed. - I guess I'm just an old romantic after all

 

[Maviarab]

Because that's not the sort of story this is. The dev tells us in the first minute of the game that we shouldn't confuse the MC's / Narrator's POV with truth. It IS an unreliable narrator story. I am truly stunned that people aren't interpreting it that way when the author tells us that we should read it that way.

Because it isn't anymore. it stopped being a narration at the end of act 1. Funny you missed that? Funny you miss all the stuff that is not from his pov between characters that has to be factiually accurate (not from his perspective), yet still you're an absolvist of a narcissistic lying slut. She even afmits this.

All the times she truly believes she is actually capable of doing something...you're the one refusing to believe wehat actually is and stated as is.

At this point it's obvious you either havient been paying attention and/or comprehending what you read, or you're just a troll.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

There's so many theories, but I want to jump in on the whole MC is the Monster thing and say I fully support this hypothesis - my evidence (and sorry if this has been pointed out already).

When the AI video is shown, the monster tells the MC to go directly to Christine. This (at least to me is because the MC already suspects its AI (he works in the tech field after all))

The monster tells the MC this because the MC is already aware that Christine would spot it as a deep fake and would be able to point this out to the MC.

It's almost like he's talking to an alter that he just isn't aware off is himself.

Also, as established in ACT 1, the MC is able to use technology to text himself (the servers text him when they have faults))

Happy to be wrong, but There's more evidence that supports this - though the link to Veronica in Act3 does throw a slight spanner into the theory, but I guess that can be explained due to the unreliable narrator plot device.

It’s been confirmed that MC isn’t the Monster

1. The monster has a phone conversation with Veronica
2. Veronica confirms in conversation (with Kelly Christine and Mia I think) that she has slept with him
3. The Monster tells MC if he has any new information, to take it to Veronica

Unless the Prof plans to extremely subvert expectations, it is almost impossible for MC to be the Monster

 

[Cenc]

It’s been confirmed that MC isn’t the Monster

1. The monster has a phone conversation with Veronica
2. Veronica confirms in conversation (with Kelly Christine and Mia I think) that she has slept with him
3. The Monster tells MC if he has any new information, to take it to Veronica

Unless the Prof plans to extremely subvert expectations, it is almost impossible for MC to be the Monster

That's great counter arguments.

I wonder what the truth will be. I'm willing to admit, I'm not 100% on the Monster being the MC, but I'm sure we will soon see who it really is.

 

[monkeyqueen]

Because it isn't anymore. it stopped being a narration at the end of act 1.

I love when people are confidently incorrect. I makes it so much funnier to watch them flail about.

Dude you cannot tell a story without a narrator. You just fucking can't. It's first person narration. It was never in 3rd person. If you saw 2nd person that's because you self inserted.

Google the fucking difference between 1st, 2nd and 3rd person narration. Then google types of unreliable narrators.

yet still you're an absolvist of a narcissistic lying slut.

I get it. You the MC because you are sexist. You enjoy saying degrading things about women and you are quick to blame Lacey because you see women as "lying sluts". This is REALLY easy to understand. Like the MC you want to blame the woman for everything. I hope you find a partner that is willing to indulge your kink

 

[monkeyqueen]

It’s been confirmed that MC isn’t the Monster

1. The monster has a phone conversation with Veronica
2. Veronica confirms in conversation (with Kelly Christine and Mia I think) that she has slept with him
3. The Monster tells MC if he has any new information, to take it to Veronica

Unless the Prof plans to extremely subvert expectations, it is almost impossible for MC to be the Monster

Like Cenc I think those are good arguments I but could be explained by full on Tyler Durden DID. I mean Tyler went on trips to other cities and established new flight clubs and the MC of that story never caught on so MC might have had sex with Veronica.

And why is Veronica interested in the MC at all? No good answer - unless the monster was pulling some strings behind the back.

So Veronica might know that the MC is the monster and is just lying about it. Her character never made any sense otherwise

 

[CrysusPariah2]

Seriously funnythings3785, less psychos in the discord

Feels like you’re banging your head against the wall here

 

[funnythings3785]

That's both accurate and not. I have agreed with things that both Cenc and AL.d have said. But it's bit harder for you and I to agree because with those two I start from a common starting place - they agree that the MC is unreliable narrator and they want to make the point that I shouldn't get too carried away with it whereas your position that is that the unreliable narrator statement from the dev only applies to act 1.

Because we don't have common basis from which to start and discover where we differ and where we agree it's harder for you and I to come to a point of agreement.

I am sorry that Lady Lydia and I don't agree because she and I have agreed in the past and I always value her contributions but, likewise, we don't share a starting point. She see fails to see rants about "sluts, whore and cumbuckets" as expressions of misogyny on the part of the MC and so it has been hard to discover points of agreement. Even if I agree with many of the other things she has said in unrelated posts.

I doubt we could come to a common basis. Lets say I disagree with a lot of your views, maybe even agree with some perceptions on things, but overall I think you let your personal evaluations drive your analytical evaluations of the content.

It doesn't matter "which" stereotype I might mean, it only matters that your arguments are pretty generic in their evaluation of various situations and the fact that you put heavy weight in "outside" interpretation over the actual information provided in the story amplifies that.

I don't have any ill will for you, I just think that we don't see eye to eye and likely never will. Maybe I shouldn't have brought up the stereotype thing, but it just grated on me and I think your responses were likely just passionate, but I still think you aren't giving proper respect to the writing in what is says as you advocate for what you think it says.

 

[funnythings3785]

Because it isn't anymore. it stopped being a narration at the end of act 1. Funny you missed that? Funny you miss all the stuff that is not from his pov between characters that has to be factiually accurate (not from his perspective), yet still you're an absolvist of a narcissistic lying slut. She even afmits this.

All the times she truly believes she is actually capable of doing something...you're the one refusing to believe wehat actually is and stated as is.

At this point it's obvious you either havient been paying attention and/or comprehending what you read, or you're just a troll.

Yeah, I wasn't a 100% sure to die on that hill because I couldn't remember exactly, but I remember you all talking about that in the past. That pretty much kills the whole excuse on "unreliable narrator" as the acts go on and it becomes more and more of "forcing" the story into ones individual perspective.

 

[monkeyqueen]

I do agree that he views what Lacey did as something that needs to be punished - this is born out by the fact he's always so quick to forgive everyone else - almost to the point I'm slapping my face begging for him to get angry, to say "That's not okay". Act 3 - the way Abbey treated the girls (and more so Lacey who already has a drug dependency) and the MC is just "nah, we're cool - I guess we can fuck later or something"

No. We're not cool. Abbey is NOT a healthy influence - but the MC forgives and forgets far too easily - but when Lacey needs it, MC just cannot bring himself to do it.

That is until the video of Lacey and Jeanette in the BDSM - The MC shows growth for once (Finally!) and just deletes the video! I was so happy at this - and then we just cannot catch a break...

I think that's right. The MC moves from physical aggression to verbal aggression to passive aggression (during Anna recording discussion) to trying to deal with passive aggression. So he is indeed trying to get better. But, again, doesn't have anyone who will slap him in the face and say "dude, either stop calling your wife a slut or just admit that's your kink"

AND that is the reason the monster takes over in the final act. The monster is happy with the status quo - subby wife, dominant husband - but if the two of them get healthy? That's death for the monster.

I'm not sure I agree that the MC is wanting to replace her abusers

Obviously I think he does - replay some of the Lacy crying / Gristle ranting scenes and ask yourself "is this verbal abuse"?

I really am rootin' for Lacey and the MC though. Even though they both are broken (I mean, they all are in various ways) I believe in the romanticism of their story, I want them to succeed. - I guess I'm just an old romantic after all

Here's my guess for routes -

1. MC realizes he is the monster, gets it together, learns to be decent dom and they have a twisted D/s relationship
2. MC denies he is monster, goes deep into a dissociative fugue get another family only to have Lacey show up - ends on clifhanger
3. MC and Lacey complete therapy integrate the monster / black swan parts of themselves into a coherent whole and agree to have an open relationship based on honesty
4. MC dives deep into the abuse, Lacey gets healthy, leaves him and then MC goes on to abuse Kelly