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Lady Lydia
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Her issues I'd say are trauma and projection, she is an angry man-hater, so she project on male characters anger and hate of women, its not a unusual pattern for people to project their own issues on those they have developed an hate for. She also clearly idealize women, because she seem to ignore their flaws unless those flaws happen to be that they support men, in which case she'll call them misogynists, as if it was a betrayal to womankind to actually like any men.
Its the sort of things that differentiate her with me, I have trauma at the hands of men, but I am merely moderately misandrist about it, and even that tend to be at a general level, not personal. I do hold women in higher regard then them to some degree, but I don't get blinded to the bullshit or evils women can commit. So its the difference between extremism and moderation.
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That's called character growth, Isaac is one of the few that have actually shown to have some, yeah he was a prick back in college - but he's progressed past that, with the help of the MC, Lacey and also his mum he's been able to see his actions were not okay.
He's actively trying to make amends - that's growth and I see that he's genuinely trying to help out the MC - now, that doesn't mean there is not an ulterior motive, but with the evidence we have currently, it does not appear that way.
As for the other male characters, none of them have had their arc yet (I don't play with Jamie so cannot address this) we're only just starting with the Yui and Beefcake dynamic (and it looks like Beefcake isn't going to come out of it "okay") So out of all the male characters in the game (other than the MC) only Isaac had any real growth.
I guess micro-dick has some sort of catharsis, but I don't see that as being as much growth as Isaac. If anything Micro-dicks story was more for comic relief than truth.
I would remind everyone, attack the content of a discussion but never the writer - Calling someone racist crosses a line to the point it excludes others from the conversation. It belittles you to do that.
Lady Lydia
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Its the first time you called something like that out even when she called me misogynist, how quaint. But fair enough I removed it. Oh and she was the one that pulled a very quick comparison to racism while complaining about what I said, when I didn't mention anything about race its very telling about the fact she was projecting.
As for character growth, the MC had far more character development, negative character development, as his sanity as been crumbling thru the story, but to say Isaac had more development than the MC is ridiculous.
Isaac’s shift was so drastic, i’d say it was less character growth and more of a re-write/course correction after his role in the future of this story got re-evaluated
Though I must admit, good guy Isaac is growing on me
It was a general message to all of those who have been targeting attacks directly at the person rather than the words - Not just aimed at you, Though I can see how that comes through. I include all parties in the 'call out'.
I did exclude the MC from my character growth comparison, its why I said "Other than the MC" because he's obviously had growth, both negative and (towards the end of act 3) positive (well except for right at the end -.-)
I never said Isaac had more development than the MC - I specifically excluded the MC and was only talking about side characters (other than Jamie since I don't play his arc). Hope that clears up the confusion.
DeviantFun
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The course correction was confirmed by the dev so he could have a chance to make MC see him more as a human.
So yeah more drastic change than growth,
I would have preferred a slower approach, but it is what it is, it becomes minor as times goes on.
Check to see if I am in the ignore list.I did that for a bunch of people here.
The cherry picking on the story is CRAZY
Lady Lydia
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The problem with those 'course corrections' is that they should be applied to the entire game, not just a new Act, otherwise you end up with a ever changing cluster fuck where from Act to Act the characters are morphing, like a number of them have done at various Acts but in particular with Act 3. I still don't get why the Prof would do that so crudely, sure it sucks to rework stuff, but if you want to course correct, you better put the background to make it work. At the end of this game the characters will appear to be very much that, game characters that have been puppets for the Dev the entire game making everything feel so artificial. If the Dev by the end want to remotely try to make it all consistent they'll have to pull either sci-fi or supernatural justifications to fix the masses of inconsistencies.
Oh and its ironic that the Dev wanted the fictional character to appear more human to its other fictional character, while ignoring entirely how it make the entire thing look less human for the players.
I just couldn't pass by
"Somewhere closer to Act 6"
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I get a lot of the "The female must be the victim and the hero of the story" from their evaluations which shows an unwillingness to cede anything to a male character, even when it is justified.
Yeah, he is extremely drastic in his change, but it seems the professor views him as a favorite and wants him to be a positive element in the story (similar to Mia). I too find him growing on me, which makes it a bit frustrating and that is likely because his change is so quick and forced. It is also why I take issues with Lacey and many of the other characters as there isn't enough explanation and process for them to move to the new character states, they just transition to whatever is needed to progress a given scene or story flow they currently are in.
I think this also may cause suspicion in the characters themselves. Him and Mia I was certain were on a path of some type of devious motive, but then... "poof", they are absolved and start acting completely different, no lead up, no foreshadow, etc... We are just to accept it and move on and so the development of "growth" seems lacking and the element of suspicion is lost in the process.
Lacey has the same issue now with me (and some of the other girls). She was showing a nice progression and then... "poof", now I am not sure if this is just writing issues, or... is she now becoming a bad person of devious intent (the unanswered issues of he behavior in Act 3 which show extreme lack of concern for the MC).
It is quite confusing.
Yeah, I imagine a few of my extreme negative posts likely didn't sit well with some as well.
I think putting me on the block list is a good idea - that's what things are for if you don't want to hear from me you don't need to.
Now that that drama is dealt with - back to game drama.
Why is Isaac the only character who has shown growth in the game? I think a critically important dialogue in the game is the whale shark and remora dialogue. The MC comes to a life changing insight in that dialogue only to have it taken from him.
Here the MC makes remarkable growth - which all the more remarkable because Anna has set him up badly. If she had played the audio of the Isaac-Lacey taslk he would hear the sincerity in Lacey's words as she grilled Isaac asking for the most trivial personal detail about her as a human being. Unfortunately Anna deletes the audio and Lacey has to explain it all while putting her worst foot forward. But our anger addict almost keeps a lid on it and tries to avoid conflict until Lacey forces the anger out.
But in his fit of jealousy he actually gets it and Lacey drops the scapegoat "she is always at fault" thinking
"I think I might actually be a monster" - Gristle
But, tragically, Lacey saves madness from jaws of sanity and repeats the co dependent cycle. No! Blame me instead!
We were together! I did betray you! I'm a slut! . . .
So every time one the MC steps towards the mental health cliff she pulls him back from the edge because she is terrified of abandonment, because she addicted to the drama of this codependent relationship and because she needs to be punished for something and having sex in college will do nicely.
She needs red bra night because that is better that stabbing herself with pencils or cutting herself with razor blades. Also, she knows, on some intuitive level at least, that the MC needs to berate, slap and choke her to feel well.
So the MC does make progress and the two of them conspire to destroy that progress.
Her creation of the harem - which makes the MC even worse - is a product of this same co dependent dynamic. If he understands that he is the whale shark he will get better, right? That's what an abuser needs - more reasons to believe his anger is justified, um right?
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So block me. You think I'm troll, I think you're stupid so just block and forget.
But I'm genuinely not trolling - I just hoping someone else will take the time to read what I just wrote and give a thoughtful reply. Took some time to find that dialogue in the files. . .
But I'm genuinely not trolling - I just hoping someone else will take the time to read what I just wrote and give a thoughtful reply. Took some time to find that dialogue in the files. . .
Delete the presplash image files in the game folder
That should resolve your issue
Have anyone heard the "broken heart symphony" from professor? I think it sheds some light on how he perceive the L&J story and possible direction where it is going.
domrak8
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Sayora
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I'd like to share what I consider a very plausible theory. At least, I don't see any obvious plot inconsistencies.
I assume that this is how the author sees the basic structure of the narrative.
I assume that this is how the author sees the basic structure of the narrative.
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Sayora
Excellent, high quality theory I think you are 90 percent correct
This where I disagree and why I think it is critically important to think of Lacy as a cutter, masochist and scapegoat.
So the drama comes from "is she lying" "am i just imagining this" "am I bad person if I suspect her"
The cuck is often an idiot who cannot see what is right in front of his face. This MC is not an idiot - he's actually pretty smart.
But the reader still has reason to doubt what the wife is saying? Why?
1. She doesn't understand her own motivations
2. She gets black out drunk / high
3. She has literal brain damage
4. (most importantly) she always agrees with the opinion of her abusers
5. (as you've noted) she will do anything to retain the love / hate of her husband
So when Anna goes off the rails with the verbal abuse Lacey will say "that's right, you are so right" Hell if some random woman in a random coffee shop comes up and says "I know what you are doing - you are a narcissist" Lacey will agree.
So it takes the "is the wife lying" trope and gives it plausible basis. Is "you are right" the truth or is that just scapegoat think? Was she blackout drunk or that was excuse? She said she uses brain damage as an excuse but can we trust that because she said that in one of her hyper-submissive moments.
Which is better than the typical NTR game where cuck literally reads hacked text messages from his wife and can't figure out is she is telling the truth or not.
And there are many others - not only is a it an NTR game it has a deeper understanding of the psychology of the cuck than most games.
Excellent, high quality theory
I think you are 90 percent correctThis where I disagree and why I think it is critically important to think of Lacy as a cutter, masochist and scapegoat.
What he is doing in taking the NTR tropes and lending a degree of sophistication to them. In NTR the traditional wife who makes lovely meals and says such nice things about the cuck (at least at the start). But then the cuck starts to wonder "why did I hear bed springs creaking" "she said she was at the library but when I went to pick her up she was gone"
So the drama comes from "is she lying" "am i just imagining this" "am I bad person if I suspect her"
The cuck is often an idiot who cannot see what is right in front of his face. This MC is not an idiot - he's actually pretty smart.
But the reader still has reason to doubt what the wife is saying? Why?
1. She doesn't understand her own motivations
2. She gets black out drunk / high
3. She has literal brain damage
4. (most importantly) she always agrees with the opinion of her abusers
5. (as you've noted) she will do anything to retain the love / hate of her husband
So when Anna goes off the rails with the verbal abuse Lacey will say "that's right, you are so right" Hell if some random woman in a random coffee shop comes up and says "I know what you are doing - you are a narcissist" Lacey will agree.
So it takes the "is the wife lying" trope and gives it plausible basis. Is "you are right" the truth or is that just scapegoat think? Was she blackout drunk or that was excuse? She said she uses brain damage as an excuse but can we trust that because she said that in one of her hyper-submissive moments.
Which is better than the typical NTR game where cuck literally reads hacked text messages from his wife and can't figure out is she is telling the truth or not.
And there are many others - not only is a it an NTR game it has a deeper understanding of the psychology of the cuck than most games.