VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[Pugthulhu]

To touch on the narration talk.

Yes, when the VN starts the first thing we are told is that this is told from the perspective on the MC. The MC is the narrator and what he says may not be completely true.
The next thing the narrator says to the reader is "It's almost my one year anniversary"
So through most of the first Act, this is a story being told to us by the MC about his live and first year of marriage. And since this is being told from his memory and from his perspective it could be wrong.

However, near the end of the first Act time catches up to their present time and the story moves from being the MC narrating what has happened to us watching what is happening in the story. So even though the MC remains the primary perspective for the reader he is no longer the narrator of the story like he was before this.

I don't believe the story tells us when this switch happens, but it is near their anniversary which is while Lacey is on the Business trip with Veronica.
The way I look at it is anything we actually see happen after their anniversary is something that happened. If it's something we don't see, but characters talk about it happening I can trust what they say, but I also recognize that what they say could be wrong.
I also recognize that even stuff we see could be wrong just because it is a story written by a person who can make mistakes and could mess up continuity.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Gone for a day and this place explodes

For the talk about who The Monster is, here is the conversation from the script:

C "Has your 'contact' said anything?"
V "Nothing new since last week I'm afraid."
C "Who is this guy anyway?"
V "He's... a friend. Kind of."
V "He owes me a serious favor and I called it in."
V "He's got a lot of business ties in the real estate market."
V "So he knows a lot of important people in the finance world that have their hand in the same pie."
M "Are you sure we can trust this guy?"
V "No. I don't. But, like I said, he owes me."
V "And it's not a small debt. He'll stay the course until the debt is paid."
C "So, he owes you money?"
V "(laughing) No. Not that kind of debt."
V "Money doesn't mean much to a guy like him."
V "No. It's a more personal kind of debt."
M "How do you know this dude?"
V "Remember when we played two truths and a lie at the king for a weekend party?"
M "Yeah."
V "Remember my unfortunate experience as the third in a threesome?"
M "Um yeah."
V "That was him and his wife."
V "The three of us stayed in touch over the years."
M "Like 'stayed in touch' or...?"
V "No. Nothing like that."
V "Just as friendly acquaintances."
V "There was an incident."
V "I put myself in harm's way to help them."
V "And so they're in my debt and he's the kind of person who always pays his debts."
C "He doesn't have to be a good person."
C "He just needs to be a man of his word."
V "And that is absolutely the case here."

And as for the two truths and a lie part that explained the details:

L "So... a threesome with a middle aged couple?"
V "I don't know what I was thinking."
V "I thought I was being so mature and edgy."
V "Yeah. It was not fun and I don't recommend it."
V "He kept ignoring his wife for the stupid eighteen year old and she kept yelling at him the whole time."
V "I spent the entire afternoon playing marriage counselor to two forty year olds."
A "That is exactly how I imagine something like that going."

Like I said previously I have a feel alot of people skimmed thru Act 3 and cherry picked what they paid attention to, now I do remember that discussion, but I still went into a explanation why it couldn't be the MC which didn't include this because I can get argumentative at times and rather than go for the factual answer I just go for my own take, thinking about it that its just about how I graduated from College, instead of memorizing anything I tended to go for my take on stuff and I was able to graduate that way, so I suppose if its good enough to graduate, its good enough for casual argumentation.

To touch on the narration talk.

Yes, when the VN starts the first thing we are told is that this is told from the perspective on the MC. The MC is the narrator and what he says may not be completely true.
The next thing the narrator says to the reader is "It's almost my one year anniversary"
So through most of the first Act, this is a story being told to us by the MC about his live and first year of marriage. And since this is being told from his memory and from his perspective it could be wrong.

However, near the end of the first Act time catches up to their present time and the story moves from being the MC narrating what has happened to us watching what is happening in the story. So even though the MC remains the primary perspective for the reader he is no longer the narrator of the story like he was before this.

I don't believe the story tells us when this switch happens, but it is near their anniversary which is while Lacey is on the Business trip with Veronica.
The way I look at it is anything we actually see happen after their anniversary is something that happened. If it's something we don't see, but characters talk about it happening I can trust what they say, but I also recognize that what they say could be wrong.
I also recognize that even stuff we see could be wrong just because it is a story written by a person who can make mistakes and could mess up continuity.

Its one of the issues with stories like that and people having that notion that what is written down is gospel, the reality is that an imperfect individual wrote the characters and stories which mean those can be flawed, even to their writer's perspective, a writer can make mistakes while writing their own stuff because they might have a specific intent with their characters and narrative and mess it up because at the time they wrote it their mental process just took a twist in a unfit or undesirable direction. Its why you should always be critical of what is written, and voice it so that the writer can figure out if they messed something out before its way too late to correct it.

 

[monkeyqueen]

To touch on the narration talk.

Yes, when the VN starts the first thing we are told is that this is told from the perspective on the MC. The MC is the narrator and what he says may not be completely true.

I am going through the game again I did find one place that would fit that theory and I looking to see if I can spot another.

The story works as first person narration with POV switching in all but one scene (that's I've found so far). If that is the case AL.d and others might be correct. In every scene before and after the Jeanette - Gristle pizza parlor scene the story has worked as first person, perspective switching, unreliable narrator. The POV being whoever speaks first and whoever is revealing their inner thoughts; in all cases but one we only hear the inner thoughts of the person when it is their POV.

This is very clear with the IT cafe scene where Gristle flirts with Bethany. When Gristle is present we hear his inner thoughts but not the thoughts of Bethany - we can only infer that her thoughts and feelings are at odds. Once Gristle leaves, it become Bethany's (the red head's) scene and we read her thoughts about Gristle.

Now if this were truly an omniscient POV there is no reason for the author to set up the scene that way. We can hear Bethany's thoughts as she is having them. We don't need to limit ourselves to noticing that she breathing - something we can get from observation - an omniscient narrator could tell us that her heart was beating faster or that her mind was racing.

But - as I have said - there is one exception to the rule. In the pizza place we have Gristle and his inner thoughts. Then he goes to the bathroom and we have Jeanette and her inner thoughts. So far so good for 1st person. BUT when Gristle returns we get Jeanettes' words and thoughts THEN Gristles' thoughts and back to Jeanette.

Now, as you've suggested, there are two possibilities:

1. (which I hope is correct) it that the author screwed up
2. this is indeed a switch to omniscient 3rd person

I really hope the latter is it is not true because that will greatly diminish my opinion of The Prof's writing. Because a) switching narration style is just bad form b) every other scene follows the rules for 1st person POV. If you have access to the omnipotent powers to the God's Eye view why only use for this one scene?

So, AL.d if you really are going to ask the dev about the unreliable narrator question will you also ask him about this scene? Was this a mistake on his part or has he truly switched to 3rd person?

 

[CrysusPariah2]

So i have put monkeyqueen on my ignore list

Was getting exhausting reading all those rants

I suggest most of you do the same and stop feeding the troll

 

[CrysusPariah2]

To touch on the narration talk.

Yes, when the VN starts the first thing we are told is that this is told from the perspective on the MC. The MC is the narrator and what he says may not be completely true.
The next thing the narrator says to the reader is "It's almost my one year anniversary"
So through most of the first Act, this is a story being told to us by the MC about his live and first year of marriage. And since this is being told from his memory and from his perspective it could be wrong.

However, near the end of the first Act time catches up to their present time and the story moves from being the MC narrating what has happened to us watching what is happening in the story. So even though the MC remains the primary perspective for the reader he is no longer the narrator of the story like he was before this.

I don't believe the story tells us when this switch happens, but it is near their anniversary which is while Lacey is on the Business trip with Veronica.
The way I look at it is anything we actually see happen after their anniversary is something that happened. If it's something we don't see, but characters talk about it happening I can trust what they say, but I also recognize that what they say could be wrong.
I also recognize that even stuff we see could be wrong just because it is a story written by a person who can make mistakes and could mess up continuity.

Based on the timeline I created the anniversary’s most likely date is during the three weeks partying with marketing

As for when we were caught up time wise, it was around the end of Mia’s final lesson where MC switches from past to present tense

 

[Lestrouduc]

So i have put monkeyqueen on my ignore list

Was getting getting exhausting reading all those rants

I suggest most of your do the same and stop feeding the troll

There, it's done... Honestly, WTF is wrong with this kind of girl?

 

[CrysusPariah2]

There, it's done... Honestly, WTF is wrong with this kind of girl?

Combination of a mental break and illiteracy i think

 

[kedewess]

So i have put monkeyqueen on my ignore list

Was getting getting exhausting reading all those rants

I suggest most of you do the same and stop feeding the troll

I did that for a bunch of people here.
The cherry picking on the story is CRAZY

 

[Lady Lydia]

There, it's done... Honestly, WTF is wrong with this kind of girl?

Her issues I'd say are trauma and projection, she is an angry man-hater, so she project on male characters anger and hate of women, its not a unusual pattern for people to project their own issues on those they have developed an hate for. She also clearly idealize women, because she seem to ignore their flaws unless those flaws happen to be that they support men, in which case she'll call them misogynists, as if it was a betrayal to womankind to actually like any men.

Its the sort of things that differentiate her with me, I have trauma at the hands of men, but I am merely moderately misandrist about it, and even that tend to be at a general level, not personal. I do hold women in higher regard then them to some degree, but I don't get blinded to the bullshit or evils women can commit. So its the difference between extremism and moderation.

 

[Cenc]

Oh and I'd say she is mildly racist too, the fact she is fine overlooking Isaac flaws, and can't find anyone better among all the men in this game is telling. I mean Bradley is a good guy & Jamie is a good femboy, I suppose Jamie is more one of the girls when it comes down to it. But the point is to think Isaac is the better male character in this game is pretty wild a claim, considering he is a selfish jock that rough girls in bed whatever they like it or not, and only found his conscience after his mom gave him a verbal trashing.

That's called character growth, Isaac is one of the few that have actually shown to have some, yeah he was a prick back in college - but he's progressed past that, with the help of the MC, Lacey and also his mum he's been able to see his actions were not okay.

He's actively trying to make amends - that's growth and I see that he's genuinely trying to help out the MC - now, that doesn't mean there is not an ulterior motive, but with the evidence we have currently, it does not appear that way.

As for the other male characters, none of them have had their arc yet (I don't play with Jamie so cannot address this) we're only just starting with the Yui and Beefcake dynamic (and it looks like Beefcake isn't going to come out of it "okay") So out of all the male characters in the game (other than the MC) only Isaac had any real growth.

I guess micro-dick has some sort of catharsis, but I don't see that as being as much growth as Isaac. If anything Micro-dicks story was more for comic relief than truth.

I would remind everyone, attack the content of a discussion but never the writer - Calling someone racist crosses a line to the point it excludes others from the conversation. It belittles you to do that.

 

[Lady Lydia]

That's called character growth, Isaac is one of the few that have actually shown to have some, yeah he was a prick back in college - but he's progressed past that, with the help of the MC, Lacey and also his mum he's been able to see his actions were not okay.

He's actively trying to make amends - that's growth and I see that he's genuinely trying to help out the MC - now, that doesn't mean there is not an ulterior motive, but with the evidence we have currently, it does not appear that way.

As for the other male characters, none of them have had their arc yet (I don't play with Jamie so cannot address this) we're only just starting with the Yui and Beefcake dynamic (and it looks like Beefcake isn't going to come out of it "okay") So out of all the male characters in the game (other than the MC) only Isaac had any real growth.

I guess micro-dick has some sort of catharsis, but I don't see that as being as much growth as Isaac. If anything Micro-dicks story was more for comic relief than truth.

I would remind everyone, attack the content of a discussion but never the writer - Calling someone racist crosses a line to the point it excludes others from the conversation. It belittles you to do that.

Its the first time you called something like that out even when she called me misogynist, how quaint. But fair enough I removed it. Oh and she was the one that pulled a very quick comparison to racism while complaining about what I said, when I didn't mention anything about race its very telling about the fact she was projecting.

As for character growth, the MC had far more character development, negative character development, as his sanity as been crumbling thru the story, but to say Isaac had more development than the MC is ridiculous.

 

[CrysusPariah2]

That's called character growth, Isaac is one of the few that have actually shown to have some, yeah he was a prick back in college - but he's progressed past that, with the help of the MC, Lacey and also his mum he's been able to see his actions were not okay.

He's actively trying to make amends - that's growth and I see that he's genuinely trying to help out the MC - now, that doesn't mean there is not an ulterior motive, but with the evidence we have currently, it does not appear that way.

As for the other male characters, none of them have had their arc yet (I don't play with Jamie so cannot address this) we're only just starting with the Yui and Beefcake dynamic (and it looks like Beefcake isn't going to come out of it "okay") So out of all the male characters in the game (other than the MC) only Isaac had any real growth.

I guess micro-dick has some sort of catharsis, but I don't see that as being as much growth as Isaac. If anything Micro-dicks story was more for comic relief than truth.

I would remind everyone, attack the content of a discussion but never the writer - Calling someone racist crosses a line to the point it excludes others from the conversation. It belittles you to do that.

Isaac’s shift was so drastic, i’d say it was less character growth and more of a re-write/course correction after his role in the future of this story got re-evaluated

Though I must admit, good guy Isaac is growing on me

 

[Cenc]

Its the first time you called something like that out even when she called me misogynist, how quaint. But fair enough I removed it. Oh and she was the one that pulled a very quick comparison to racism while complaining about what I said, when I didn't mention anything about race its very telling about the fact she was projecting.

As for character growth, the MC had far more character development, negative character development, as his sanity as been crumbling thru the story, but to say Isaac had more development than the MC is ridiculous.

It was a general message to all of those who have been targeting attacks directly at the person rather than the words - Not just aimed at you, Though I can see how that comes through. I include all parties in the 'call out'.

I did exclude the MC from my character growth comparison, its why I said "Other than the MC" because he's obviously had growth, both negative and (towards the end of act 3) positive (well except for right at the end -.-)

I never said Isaac had more development than the MC - I specifically excluded the MC and was only talking about side characters (other than Jamie since I don't play his arc). Hope that clears up the confusion.

 

[DeviantFun]

Isaac’s shift was so drastic, i’d say it was less character growth and more of a re-write/course correction after his role in the future of this story got re-evaluated

Though I must admit, good guy Isaac is growing on me

The course correction was confirmed by the dev so he could have a chance to make MC see him more as a human.

So yeah more drastic change than growth,
I would have preferred a slower approach, but it is what it is, it becomes minor as times goes on.

I did that for a bunch of people here.
The cherry picking on the story is CRAZY

Check to see if I am in the ignore list.

 

[Lady Lydia]

The course correction was confirmed by the dev so he could have a chance to make MC see him more as a human.

So yeah more drastic change than growth,
I would have preferred a slower approach, but it is what it is, it becomes minor as times goes on.

Check to see if I am in the ignore list.

The problem with those 'course corrections' is that they should be applied to the entire game, not just a new Act, otherwise you end up with a ever changing cluster fuck where from Act to Act the characters are morphing, like a number of them have done at various Acts but in particular with Act 3. I still don't get why the Prof would do that so crudely, sure it sucks to rework stuff, but if you want to course correct, you better put the background to make it work. At the end of this game the characters will appear to be very much that, game characters that have been puppets for the Dev the entire game making everything feel so artificial. If the Dev by the end want to remotely try to make it all consistent they'll have to pull either sci-fi or supernatural justifications to fix the masses of inconsistencies.

Oh and its ironic that the Dev wanted the fictional character to appear more human to its other fictional character, while ignoring entirely how it make the entire thing look less human for the players.

 

[SayoraSaint]

Isaac’s shift was so drastic, i’d say it was less character growth and more of a re-write/course correction after his role in the future of this story got re-evaluated

Though I must admit, good guy Isaac is growing on me

I just couldn't pass by
"Somewhere closer to Act 6"

Spoiler

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[funnythings3785]

Her issues I'd say are trauma and projection, she is an angry man-hater, so she project on male characters anger and hate of women, its not a unusual pattern for people to project their own issues on those they have developed an hate for. She also clearly idealize women, because she seem to ignore their flaws unless those flaws happen to be that they support men, in which case she'll call them misogynists, as if it was a betrayal to womankind to actually like any men.

Its the sort of things that differentiate her with me, I have trauma at the hands of men, but I am merely moderately misandrist about it, and even that tend to be at a general level, not personal. I do hold women in higher regard then them to some degree, but I don't get blinded to the bullshit or evils women can commit. So its the difference between extremism and moderation.

I get a lot of the "The female must be the victim and the hero of the story" from their evaluations which shows an unwillingness to cede anything to a male character, even when it is justified.

 

[funnythings3785]

Isaac’s shift was so drastic, i’d say it was less character growth and more of a re-write/course correction after his role in the future of this story got re-evaluated

Though I must admit, good guy Isaac is growing on me

Yeah, he is extremely drastic in his change, but it seems the professor views him as a favorite and wants him to be a positive element in the story (similar to Mia). I too find him growing on me, which makes it a bit frustrating and that is likely because his change is so quick and forced. It is also why I take issues with Lacey and many of the other characters as there isn't enough explanation and process for them to move to the new character states, they just transition to whatever is needed to progress a given scene or story flow they currently are in.

I think this also may cause suspicion in the characters themselves. Him and Mia I was certain were on a path of some type of devious motive, but then... "poof", they are absolved and start acting completely different, no lead up, no foreshadow, etc... We are just to accept it and move on and so the development of "growth" seems lacking and the element of suspicion is lost in the process.

Lacey has the same issue now with me (and some of the other girls). She was showing a nice progression and then... "poof", now I am not sure if this is just writing issues, or... is she now becoming a bad person of devious intent (the unanswered issues of he behavior in Act 3 which show extreme lack of concern for the MC).

It is quite confusing.

 

[funnythings3785]

Check to see if I am in the ignore list.

Yeah, I imagine a few of my extreme negative posts likely didn't sit well with some as well.

 

[monkeyqueen]

Her issues I'd say are trauma and projection, she is an angry man-hater, . . .

Its the sort of things that differentiate her with me, . . . So its the difference between extremism and moderation.

I think putting me on the block list is a good idea - that's what things are for if you don't want to hear from me you don't need to.

I many cases I was getting tired of reading "you only need to this story on a surface level, women are narcissistic manipulators duh" and ignoring the evidence that the author of this AVN is encouraging the reader to question the story as it's being told. I mean you literally have ignore or explain away the author's introduction to keep to a surface-level reading. I was often replying of politeness and habit because I believe in returning effort extended.

You can swim in the shallow waters and I'll stick to the deep end.

I am, incidentally, not a woman. I think you, ladylydia, are brave to self identify as a woman on this site since, as we have seen, doing so encourages men to engage in aggressive sexual fantasies as form of trolling. (and those of you indulging in fucking a feminist fantasies - you've been fantasizing about someone who looks like the typical ugly bastard of NTR stories *blows kiss*)

I'm just a man whose social circle is made up of 90 percent women - which probably happened because my best friend is a woman. I'm also poly so I've dated more than many - one my partners was a masochist and a cutter and another a feminist scholar. So it's easy for me to dismiss opinions made by women who speak in the name of all women in spaces dominated by men because I can immediately think of exceptions to the rule. "I'd love to hear ____'s response to that!"

Now that that drama is dealt with - back to game drama.

Why is Isaac the only character who has shown growth in the game? I think a critically important dialogue in the game is the whale shark and remora dialogue. The MC comes to a life changing insight in that dialogue only to have it taken from him.

Here the MC makes remarkable growth - which all the more remarkable because Anna has set him up badly. If she had played the audio of the Isaac-Lacey taslk he would hear the sincerity in Lacey's words as she grilled Isaac asking for the most trivial personal detail about her as a human being. Unfortunately Anna deletes the audio and Lacey has to explain it all while putting her worst foot forward. But our anger addict almost keeps a lid on it and tries to avoid conflict until Lacey forces the anger out.

But in his fit of jealousy he actually gets it and Lacey drops the scapegoat "she is always at fault" thinking

"I think I might actually be a monster" - Gristle

MC "And in my head I make it seem like we were always a couple."
MC "But we weren't."
MC "We were never a romantic couple."
MC "But I guess I wanted that so badly, I just tell myself we were."
MC "And by looking at your past through that lens I've created..."
MC "it makes it feel like you cheated on me with all those men."
MC "But you didn't."
MC "You weren't mine."
MC "You had no idea what I was doing."
MC "For all you know I was dating and partying as much as you were."
MC "You had no idea that I was waiting for you."
MC "But in my head you did."
MC "So that makes it okay to hate you, when it really isn't."
MC "I'm punishing you for something that has nothing to do with me."
MC "I can't stop being angry about something that isn't mine to be angry about."
MC "And you keep making mistakes because of your past drug addiction."
MC "Which let's be honest, doesn't make you a bad person."
MC "It makes you a stastic."
MC "Abused children often develop addictions due to self medicating."
MC "It's so common that there are literally thousands of medical articles written about it."
MC "I'm mad at an abused child for making some bad life choices."
MC "I think I might actually be a monster."
MC "I keep asking you to stop hurting me."
MC "But when will I stop hurting you?"
MC "I've made you feel like that you're the bad one."
MC "That you're the one who keeps hurting our marriage."
MC "But I think it might be me."
MC "Or I guess... it is me."
MC "What if I'm making you sick?"
MC "Making your brain damage worse by being a tyrant."
MC "Constantly belittling you and making you feel bad about things you can't even help."
MC "..."
MC "I'm sitting around waiting for you to save me."
MC "But I won't let you, because I can't stop hating you."
MC "I can't stop hating the girl I love more than anything else in the world."
MC "I think that's why I was so angry at Isaac for offering you an escape."
MC "Because I'm scared to death you'll take it."
MC "And you wouldn't be in the wrong to do that."
MC "I'm sorry Lacey."
MC "I'm sorry that I make you feel the way I do."
MC "I'm sorry that I'm not more understanding."
MC "More gentle. More kind."
MC "More forgiving. Less quick to anger."
MC "You've had to rely on Anna and Mia to be there for you."
MC "Because I haven't been doing my job."
MC "Loving you. Protecting you. Taking care of you."
MC "Instead I sit around demanding you soothe my jealousy and feelings of inadequacy."
MC "And I've made you believe that's what you should be doing."
MC "..."
MC "Oh, and Isaac should definitely have apologized to you."
MC "Do I deserve one too? Absolutely."
MC "And he owes Kelly one as well."
MC "But he aired your past life on the internet."
MC "He insulted you."
MC "He said hurtful things about something you really shouldn't have to feel bad about."
MC "But because I'm so jealous I made the entire thing about me."
MC "So, I'm glad he apologized."
MC "I still hate him and hope he dies tragically and as soon as possible."
MC "And I REALLY don't want him in our house ever again."
MC "But still... I'm glad he told you he was sorry."
MC "Maybe one day..."
MC "After a lot of time has passed..."
MC "And you've been able to heal from the damage I've done..."
MC "Maybe you'll forgive me."
MC "Even if we aren't together anymore."
MC "..."
MC "I think I'm done word vomiting now."
show lacey_night_sad at midright with move
"Lacey puts her arms firmly around me."
L "That..."
L "was the most amazing, heartfelt speech you've ever given to me."
L "It was also the most real apology I've ever heard in my life."

But, tragically, Lacey saves madness from jaws of sanity and repeats the co dependent cycle. No! Blame me instead!

We were together! I did betray you! I'm a slut! . . .

So every time one the MC steps towards the mental health cliff she pulls him back from the edge because she is terrified of abandonment, because she addicted to the drama of this codependent relationship and because she needs to be punished for something and having sex in college will do nicely.

She needs red bra night because that is better that stabbing herself with pencils or cutting herself with razor blades. Also, she knows, on some intuitive level at least, that the MC needs to berate, slap and choke her to feel well.

So the MC does make progress and the two of them conspire to destroy that progress.

Her creation of the harem - which makes the MC even worse - is a product of this same co dependent dynamic. If he understands that he is the whale shark he will get better, right? That's what an abuser needs - more reasons to believe his anger is justified, um right?