monkeyqueen

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Oct 26, 2019
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So block me. You think I'm troll, I think you're stupid so just block and forget.

But I'm genuinely not trolling - I just hoping someone else will take the time to read what I just wrote and give a thoughtful reply. Took some time to find that dialogue in the files. . .
 

domrak8

Newbie
Dec 6, 2021
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184
Wow, ho giocato a questo gioco per 3 ore di fila
Non so nemmeno come siano passate quelle 3 ore

La scrittura e la calligrafia di questo sviluppatore sono incredibili
Senza esagerare o adulazione, in termini di scrittura, questo gioco è tra i primi 3 tra i circa mille giochi che ho provato

Ok, suonerò il resto. Volevo solo consigliarlo vivamente a tutti, che siano fan di Vanilla o fan di NTR.

Solo un punto per i fan della serie originale:
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[/CITAZIONE]


devo dire che in certe parti sembrava che io racontassi la mia storia un amore tossico dove tu vieni manipolato umiliato e sei perenemmente arrabiato nel mio caso se risolta da se mi sono stufato dei tira e molla e ho fatto sesso con due sue amiche che penso tanto amiche non erano

Spero di vedere al più presto il nuovo capitolo
 

monkeyqueen

Member
Oct 26, 2019
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Sayora

Excellent, high quality theory :) I think you are 90 percent correct

This where I disagree and why I think it is critically important to think of Lacy as a cutter, masochist and scapegoat.

I can confidently say that the NTR here is purely for hype, and if the author had imagined the negativity the NTR scene would generate, I think he would have changed it.(It carries no semantic load and is not desired by the characters.)
What he is doing in taking the NTR tropes and lending a degree of sophistication to them. In NTR the traditional wife who makes lovely meals and says such nice things about the cuck (at least at the start). But then the cuck starts to wonder "why did I hear bed springs creaking" "she said she was at the library but when I went to pick her up she was gone"

So the drama comes from "is she lying" "am i just imagining this" "am I bad person if I suspect her"

The cuck is often an idiot who cannot see what is right in front of his face. This MC is not an idiot - he's actually pretty smart.

But the reader still has reason to doubt what the wife is saying? Why?

1. She doesn't understand her own motivations
2. She gets black out drunk / high
3. She has literal brain damage
4. (most importantly) she always agrees with the opinion of her abusers
5. (as you've noted) she will do anything to retain the love / hate of her husband

So when Anna goes off the rails with the verbal abuse Lacey will say "that's right, you are so right" Hell if some random woman in a random coffee shop comes up and says "I know what you are doing - you are a narcissist" Lacey will agree.

So it takes the "is the wife lying" trope and gives it plausible basis. Is "you are right" the truth or is that just scapegoat think? Was she blackout drunk or that was excuse? She said she uses brain damage as an excuse but can we trust that because she said that in one of her hyper-submissive moments.

Which is better than the typical NTR game where cuck literally reads hacked text messages from his wife and can't figure out is she is telling the truth or not.

And there are many others - not only is a it an NTR game it has a deeper understanding of the psychology of the cuck than most games.
 

Cenc

Developing Reality
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Jun 22, 2019
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I think putting me on the block list is a good idea - that's what things are for if you don't want to hear from me you don't need to.


Now that that drama is dealt with - back to game drama.

Why is Isaac the only character who has shown growth in the game? I think a critically important dialogue in the game is the whale shark and remora dialogue. The MC comes to a life changing insight in that dialogue only to have it taken from him.

Here the MC makes remarkable growth - which all the more remarkable because Anna has set him up badly. If she had played the audio of the Isaac-Lacey taslk he would hear the sincerity in Lacey's words as she grilled Isaac asking for the most trivial personal detail about her as a human being. Unfortunately Anna deletes the audio and Lacey has to explain it all while putting her worst foot forward. But our anger addict almost keeps a lid on it and tries to avoid conflict until Lacey forces the anger out.

But in his fit of jealousy he actually gets it and Lacey drops the scapegoat "she is always at fault" thinking

"I think I might actually be a monster" - Gristle



But, tragically, Lacey saves madness from jaws of sanity and repeats the co dependent cycle. No! Blame me instead!

We were together! I did betray you! I'm a slut! . . .

So every time one the MC steps towards the mental health cliff she pulls him back from the edge because she is terrified of abandonment, because she addicted to the drama of this codependent relationship and because she needs to be punished for something and having sex in college will do nicely.

She needs red bra night because that is better that stabbing herself with pencils or cutting herself with razor blades. Also, she knows, on some intuitive level at least, that the MC needs to berate, slap and choke her to feel well.

So the MC does make progress and the two of them conspire to destroy that progress.

Her creation of the harem - which makes the MC even worse - is a product of this same co dependent dynamic. If he understands that he is the whale shark he will get better, right? That's what an abuser needs - more reasons to believe his anger is justified, um right?
I'd forgotten about the MC's "word vomit" (I loathe that term, but it is what it is) This is the clearest realisation he's ever had - He get's it - Lacey didn't owe him anything whilst she was in college, I strongly feel she should have reached out to the MC, she should have realised the damage ignoring him was doing.

Her saying she thought he was doing fine, clearly anyone getting multiple messages a day would realise that person is not doing fine. Though we never see the content of those messages we are told that he was desperate for her to reach out to him - it's clear Lacey chose to ignore him, perhaps she really believed he was better off without her, but given she herself has stated that she wanted to be able to love him like he deserved - she was aware of her actions, at least until "phase 3".

Does that make her a bad person? Arguably - I'm going to err on the side that she really believed leaving him alone was the best option, she herself states it wasn't until "phase 2" when she all but forgot about the MC (except the constant messages, and listening to happy birthday on repeat) ... so... I feel I'm deluding myself here.

Should the MC hold her actions (the sleeping around specifically) during college against her ...who boy now that's a can of worms I just don't have time to open yet.

Let's put aside the college years for one moment, Lacey has cheated on the MC - she slept with Damien and she wanted to. That much is born out through her words and from the fact the MC withdrew his consent *whilst she was sober* he specifically said before she left "Do not do this" and she ignored that and did it anyway.

There are also the messages where the MC again reiterates that he does not want her to do it, she reads them and ignores them. Now this could be when she is drunk and off her nut on K which may excuse that. She forces Anna to sleep with the MC - this is to aswage her guilt, it's a very selfish move by her (and the MC is a stupid dick for going through with it) Lacey knew Anna loves the MC, she used her to make herself feel less guilty, and Anna just doesn't have the will power to say no.

This probably has done more damage to the relationship and the MC's mental faculties than any of them realise. But of course, good 'ole Gristle, he can forgive and forget Anna, but not Lacey, oh no, not her - She must be punished, she must hurt.

Yes, Lacey has cheated on the MC, but the MC has cheated on Lacey. The difference (at least in the first 3 acts) is that the MC did it whilst sober. Does that make a difference? The MC and Jeanette believed it does when it comes to Lacey and Damien.

As an aside, whilst I'm "vomiting words" Lacey had some catharsis with at least 3 of the men from college. It was a touching scene and was good, positive progress. But after the end, I wanted to know when Lacey was going to have her cathartic moment with Mia. What Mia did to her in college is near on unforgivable (unless you're the MC, then it's just tits O'clock I'll forgive you Mia) Lacey needs to get angry at her. Both her and Mia will not heal without it. (maybe this has happened off screen) but I will point out, Mia is activly trying to break them up - hell she's even shipped in a replacement!
 

telly1712

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Sep 21, 2024
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Have anyone heard the "broken heart symphony" from professor? I think it sheds some light on how he perceive the L&J story and possible direction where it is going.
A threesome Lacey/MC/2nd Girl to Balance and Ensure a „stable“ and happy Future ?

…indicates also that before that possible end a lot of further Lacey Roller coaster Drama will Take Place…
 
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Cenc

Developing Reality
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A threesome Lacey/MC/2nd Girl to Balance and Ensure a „stable“ and happy Future ?

…indicates also that before that possible end a lot of further Lacey Roller coaster Drama will Take Place…
You know, I'd really like it if Lacey could just catch a break. Like she organises something with the MC and it just goes off without any problems, it's a perfect time they spend together, no abuse, no hate, no interruptions - perfect mental health.

Will we get that...?
 

funnythings3785

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You know, I'd really like it if Lacey could just catch a break. Like she organises something with the MC and it just goes off without any problems, it's a perfect time they spend together, no abuse, no hate, no interruptions - perfect mental health.

Will we get that...?

At one point I thought this was going to be the direction, that Lacey would begin to slide into a role of continued growth, no screw ups as she worked more on trying to build on her relationship with the MC. I thought that any of the "real" drama would end up being outside influence trying to instill doubt with that (drama that ends up not being any fault of Lacey, similar to the deep fake) and that the bulk of the issues would be other characters dealing with Lacey like or similar screw ups.

Act 3 damaged Lacey some more (on some levels maybe even more than previous train wrecks emotionally as it concerns the strength of the bond between them), causing any attempt at showing growth on her part to be mired in inconsideration to the MC.

I want to say that is just writing though because the MC ignores a great deal of it and does not react to it in any way that would be considered normal to his character. Either the previous Acts need to be retconned to show a more natural progression or a great deal of Act 3 will need to be adjusted to remove these issues.. or... well there is the possible third option of them all being explained or reasoned in Act 4, though... with the professors style in how he writes, I somehow think that isn't going be the case.
 
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John 7

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This is the most sick VN i have ever seen. I don't know if i like or i hate,but i managed to watch this disturbing crap to the end...please don't continue.
 
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monkeyqueen

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Oct 26, 2019
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I thought that any of the "real" drama would end up being outside influence trying to instill doubt with that (drama that ends up not being any fault of Lacey, similar to the deep fake) and that the bulk of the issues would be other characters dealing with Lacey like or similar screw ups.
I'm not ruling that out. Because there are somethings in the text that are either bad writing or part of a plot and defaulting on the side of a plot that will be revealed later.

Dianne (dyed red hair) comes up to Lacey out of the blue and gives her a strangely tailored diagnosis. I mean who does that? Is she just plot device that the dev pulled out his butt or did someone send her on a mission? And Abby? She sure came with a complicated plot on the spur of the moment . . . unless she had been planning this for some time.

I mean the MC foiled a plot headed by someone who is involved in the criminal world so . . .
 
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KseiPo

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Oct 8, 2024
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A threesome Lacey/MC/2nd Girl to Balance and Ensure a „stable“ and happy Future ?

…indicates also that before that possible end a lot of further Lacey Roller coaster Drama will Take Place…
No. Those songs are basically "compressed" story of Mc, Lacey and Anna. Without brain damage of both of them. And without other characters.
 

funnythings3785

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No. Those songs are basically "compressed" story of Mc, Lacey and Anna. Without brain damage of both of them. And without other characters.
I think you are making an assumption here. There is no indication that the story has anything to do with L&J, the professor simply stated he wanted to make something to "try and hurt his own feelings" and this was the result.

While it does share some very generic story elements, I would be careful to inject that as being representative of the characters from L&J.
 

funnythings3785

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Just some basic thoughts on Act 3 concerning Lacey and growth, more specifically an example from one progression that causes conflict in this.

So, the MC goes on a date with Anna, which... lets remember... is pushed for by Lacey, remember all of this interaction with the other girls is... pushed for by Lacey, not the MC. He really doesn't want this, has resisted numerous times, and protested about it. He simply wants a normal relationship with Lacey.

So, Lacey gives Anna the go ahead for a kiss (I think this is also done without informing the MC) so naturally, the MC is shocked when it happens and Anna has to explain. The date proceeds, and you can choose to do more with Anna or not, doing more loses GG points as this was not something specifically "sanctioned" by Lacey.

I noticed that whether you choose to do something with Anna or not, the MC still views the date as if it is something "he" did wrong, which doesn't makes sense (outside of his own mental issues) as none of this stuff was his idea and the whole "experiment" is something he was against from the start.

So he is beating himself up the moment he gets from the date, trying to consider the best way to be considerate of her feelings, how to react, etc... because he is concerned it may be upsetting to her. Lacey is upset, she is jealous (and scared, her words), so she proceeds to use the "fellow" hitting on her as a way to make the MC jealous, she acts in an uncaring and vindictive manner to a situation she created and pushed for.

Lacey knows this will harm him, she knows his past issues, she knows this is wrong (she even admits this after in the hotel room and reasons it is because she is scared) yet... she still does it, knowing how damaged the MC is, knowing this is yet another situation she created, she is fully responsible for.

So, right before they go on their honeymoon, the MC has yet again... dealt with a problem he didn't want, and a reaction he knew would be an issue. He paid for her decisions and responsibility to those decisions yet again.

Now consider that as a lead in, the conversation of her "admitting" to this behavior, knowing these things are extremely serious to him and not something to take lightly...

Now look on to the rest of Act 3 Vegas, Lacey's actions, her behavior, her reasoning, her "knowing" of the issues as they occurred... It just gets worse and worse on this front, but Lacey is growing? I don't see it, at least not as it concerns responsibility to her actions and more specifically that of her part in the relationship to the MC
.
 

funnythings3785

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The story has the potential for a full 10, I say this with real sincerity, built in all the details with real bursts of drama, comedy, sex, and 90% well-written dialogues, absolutely something innovative in this genre, but perhaps in every genre, I repeat the story, as a game, is its poor choice options, well, it is not judgeable, but we accept it, the side that does not give that full 10 of vote is this continuous comic situation between MC and FMC, everything is always forgiven to FMC because he is mentally unstable, but the story also shows a Mc not stable brain, the stupidity of FMC and the super idiocy of MC always forgiving, always justifying, not justifying, makes the story lose a continuous interest, now we always expect FMC to make the same mistake, and MC always forgive her, this in the long run is making it repetitive and a little too easy to understand, too bad, I congratulate you, I repeat, rare to find a
Consider that most works of quality go through numerous iterations before they are finalized and released. In professional situations, this involves editors, publishers, and numerous outside readers going over the story and giving feedback to the author before it is allowed to be released (and the bulk of this is usually technical aspects to story flow and character development)

The professor slams these out quick... I mean... fast... when you consider how much writing there is in it, so I agree, the story has the potential to be outstanding eventually (it already is an amazing read) if he goes through iterations and gets some feedback from fresh eyes and different perspectives. I hope he does, because I think this work truly deserves that polishing.

Part of me wants to have him spend time focusing on this before he continues on, but another part wants me to just let him flow with the story until he is finished, then... go back and shore everything up. I say this because this way it provides him the creative flow he wants without getting bogged down on the details. The later iterations can then take into consideration his overall intent and then adjust the story to fit that.

This though, will create a lot of hair pulling for the readers in the mean time though. :LOL:
 

duckydoodoo

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Nov 9, 2023
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just for fun,

what if Mia and possibly others, are actually Lacey's alternate personalities. and the misconception about how the MC views things, is that we are watching how he portrays the different personalities in his mind when remembering all the crap him and Lacey went through. like when Mia shows MC the videos, in reality it was Lacey, as the Mia personality, but in his mind wether in reflection or retelling the personalities look how they behave. The personality that hates MC is loud demanding and wants to punish him looks a firey latina with damage. the personality that is in love with him like a trad wifelooks like an asian(stop, im not saying this is what asian and latina women are like dont go there, simply using generalizations that exist of them in entertainment media)

im not arguing this is the case, just a thought exercise for people trying to guess where the story is heading. strangely enough, this would fit into an ODS style twist ending
 
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