VN Unity Mad Turn [S2 v0.3] [DonDimon]

[texasterry]

So DonDimonGames

Despite my rant above, I like your game.

Your last update certainly generated a reaction from me. (If I wasn't drawn in to some degree, you wouldn't have gotten a reaction at all...) But I generally like it for the creative (art/writing) in spite of some technical aspects (see previous.)

But I do have a question for you. Since it is seems that you have an specific story arc in mind, approximately how far are we into it? 30%? 50%? Less? More? Just curious.

 

[DonDimonGames]

So DonDimonGames

Despite my rant above, I like your game.

Your last update certainly generated a reaction from me. (If I wasn't drawn in to some degree, you wouldn't have gotten a reaction at all...) But I generally like it for the creative (art/writing) in spite of some technical aspects (see previous.)

But I do have a question for you. Since it is seems that you have an specific story arc in mind, approximately how far are we into it? 30%? 50%? Less? More? Just curious.

Thank you for sharing your reaction to the game! I would also like to thank everyone who has expressed their thoughts about the game on forums and on my Patreon page. Feedback like this has a lot of value for developers.
The fight between Matt and Ramon will mark that the plot has progressed by about 70%. I want to make this fight interesting for players. Matt will have to do several training sessions and go through some events, the results of which will affect his form in the battle. The results of these training sessions and events, in turn, will depend entirely on the choice of players. It is also necessary to develop the plot branches of minor characters. I'm currently working on putting it all together. After their fight, the final stage will start.

 

[Jstforme]

I for one completely agree with the whole Anna debacle, doing the nasty with Ramon. I liked her character till that point, but like to many others here, she's dead to me now.
I'm thinking all will be revealed with Anna's betrayal during the fight with Ramon...I'm hoping we get to see some suffering/consequence on her part for her extremely poor judgment leading up to the fight…or at least have the choice to burn the bitch down with the everyone else, once revenge has started.

 

[texasterry]

Thank you for sharing your reaction to the game! I would also like to thank everyone who has expressed their thoughts about the game on forums and on my Patreon page. Feedback like this has a lot of value for developers.
The fight between Matt and Ramon will mark that the plot has progressed by about 70%. I want to make this fight interesting for players. Matt will have to do several training sessions and go through some events, the results of which will affect his form in the battle. The results of these training sessions and events, in turn, will depend entirely on the choice of players. It is also necessary to develop the plot branches of minor characters. I'm currently working on putting it all together. After their fight, the final stage will start.

You're welcome for the comments. But I'm still assuming that my rant/comment took SIGNIFICANTLY less time to generate than your game has for you... lol

Thanks for the quick reply.

To clarify, based on what you said, it sounds like there would be several updates worth of 'training' and 'character development' (assuming maybe 2 or 3 updates potentially?) before the fight (70% complete)? If that assumption is true, then that would mean the current version (9) is more than or a little more than halfway to the completed game? Does that sound about right? (and sorry for pressing you if your outline isn't THAT fleshed out/detailed yet...)

Since you mentioned other minor characters, it reminded me of something that I was wondering. Do some choices the player makes close any further opportunities/progress/routes to certain women? For example, what you chose to do (and who with) at the nightclub?

Spoiler

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Spoiler: question about in-game alcohol cocktail combinations

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Another random comment about the game's user interface: I have short term memory issues and because there isn't a 'back' button (your's only does chapters or segments, not individual pages), or a 'history' button, or a 'quest' box to consult with, as needed, containing a list of what all you need to do to advance the game. I tend to get stuck doing 'non-story' related activities (get this/get that) a lot longer than most probably do. These additional 'hurdles' can only negatively impact my game experience and enjoyment. I guess this is why I personally tend to like Ren'py games (because some of that is 'built-in' to Ren'py.) I'm NOT suggesting that you need a quest log given how you've chosen to construct your stories (it would be total overkill) but a 'back' button (one page at a time) would be GREATLY appreciated for your next game.

 

[texasterry]

I for one completely agree with the whole Anna debacle, doing the nasty with Ramon. I liked her character till that point, but like to many others here, she's dead to me now.
I'm thinking all will be revealed with Anna's betrayal during the fight with Ramon...I'm hoping we get to see some suffering/consequence on her part for her extremely poor judgment leading up to the fight…or at least have the choice to burn the bitch down with the everyone else, once revenge has started.

I suppose if this game gets deeper into the 'rough stuff' or BDSM, Matt can 'reward' Anne with her very own dog collar and leash after the fight for her less-than-exceptional leadership/decision making/motivational skills? ) That girl CLEARLY has a few 'lessons' to 'learn' about her secretive/obsessive-compulsive/micro-managing/control issues...

But after this latest betrayal/revelation, Matt will probably be shell-shocked... I just have my fingers crossed that the old man from the park doesn't later turn out to be William's consigliere! I think I'm gonna have nightmares of Matt walking up behind the old man sitting on a park bench only to see Williams handing him a bottle of cheap wine wrapped in a brown paper bag as his offering for the next 'consultation with the Oracle'....

 

[DonDimonGames]

To clarify, based on what you said, it sounds like there would be several updates worth of 'training' and 'character development' (assuming maybe 2 or 3 updates potentially?) before the fight (70% complete)?

4 or 5 updates, maybe 6

If that assumption is true, then that would mean the current version (9) is more than or a little more than halfway to the completed game? Does that sound about right? (and sorry for pressing you if your outline isn't THAT fleshed out/detailed yet...)

You are welcome! I think it's a halfway or little less than halfway to the completed game.

Do some choices the player makes close any further opportunities/progress/routes to certain women? For example, what you chose to do (and who with) at the nightclub?

Yes, players' choice may close some of the further opportunities, but at the same time, it may open others.
In the example you mentioned, Matt will lose a lot of opportunities with Claire, but he will develop a relationship with Emily.
Her name is Sheila. There is no special event for her if she drinks a cocktail with Eleutherococcus since she is having sex with her boyfriend after the club anyway. Thus she relieves sexual tension. But if Matt chooses another cocktail combination, she would fall asleep during sex with Tony (her boyfriend). Tony may use it unexpectedly.

Another random comment about the game's user interface: I have short term memory issues and because there isn't a 'back' button (your's only does chapters or segments, not individual pages), or a 'history' button, or a 'quest' box to consult with, as needed, containing a list of what all you need to do to advance the game. I tend to get stuck doing 'non-story' related activities (get this/get that) a lot longer than most probably do. These additional 'hurdles' can only negatively impact my game experience and enjoyment. I guess this is why I personally tend to like Ren'py games (because some of that is 'built-in' to Ren'py.) I'm NOT suggesting that you need a quest log given how you've chosen to construct your stories (it would be total overkill) but a 'back' button (one page at a time) would be GREATLY appreciated for your next game.

I know I have to make this game more user-friendly, but because the story develops too slow, I spend all my free time just moving through the story. However, I understand that I have to work on game design and improve its interface. It remains only to choose the right moment for this.

 

[texasterry]

So "4 or 5 updates, maybe 6" until we get to the fight with Ramon? Wow. OK. I was hopeful there would be a lot more "story development" between now and then, but this was even more than I had hoped for!

So the "players' choice may close some of the further opportunities" WAS the (correct) impression that I was got. Thanks for confirming that. So long as I get to pursue Emily, Demi, and eventually Taylor, I'm all good.

Spoiler: Alcohol cocktail

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As far as the current game's user interface, I had just assumed that it would be 'set' for the remaining development of the game. If that is the case, I can live with it. I've already decided that the renderings and plot of the game alone are interesting enough to be worthy of playing it, even though there are interface aspects that aren't 'great' for me. Hell, you even got me to play an NTR game! Take your 'win' and be happy with it. So the world isn't perfect. Tell me something that I don't already know...

So are you developing this game all by yourself? Are you are doing all the rendering, writing, coding, and translation as well? When do you sleep? LOL

That fact alone gives me a greater degree of sympathy for the condition of the user interface. No one can do ALL of these things well...

I had always imagined that working out any game's interface/architecture (what you needed it to do, how you want it to behave, allowing the user's to not feel 'constrained' by overly complicated or limited functioning interfaces) SHOULD be done first, but like with any creative endeavor, that information is only reveled to you AFTER you have developed something for a while. So which come first, the chicken or the egg?

Sorry for writing so much. Especially since I'm assuming you have to translate all of this first...

 

[DonDimonGames]

Spoiler: 'sleep' cocktail

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Hell, you even got me to play an NTR game! Take your 'win' and be happy with it.

I am happy

So are you developing this game all by yourself? Are you are doing all the rendering, writing, coding, and translation as well? When do you sleep? LOL

All by myself. Creating something is a lot of fun. It doesn't burden me too much.

I had always imagined that working out any game's interface/architecture (what you needed it to do, how you want it to behave, allowing the user's to not feel 'constrained' by overly complicated or limited functioning interfaces) SHOULD be done first, but like with any creative endeavor, that information is only reveled to you AFTER you have developed something for a while. So which come first, the chicken or the egg?

It SHOULD be done FIRST. You are right. I planned to create such an interesting scenario, that players wouldn't care about game's poor interface. It was very naive of me to plan this. Design of the game (even if it's a porn novel) is always important. You can't just dismiss it as something unnecessary.

Sorry for writing so much. Especially since I'm assuming you have to translate all of this first...

I understand the English text immediately. Problems arise when I'm about to write something in this language. But since I started creating Mad Turn, I have made progress in writing texts in English.

 

[texasterry]

Here are all the Night Club/Partner pairings that I know of:

Spoiler: Possible Night club partner combos

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[/SPOILER
All by myself. Creating something is a lot of fun. It doesn't burden me too much.

Then I am very impressed. That is A LOT of work. Won't you have to keep flow diagrams to keep track of all the potential different dialogs you have to write? Won't the variety of texts continue to increase, depending on who did or did not do for the NPCs responses/statements? Or am I overstating the amount of variables?

It SHOULD be done FIRST. You are right. I planned to create such an interesting scenario, that players wouldn't care about game's poor interface. It was very naive of me to plan this. Design of the game (even if it's a porn novel) is always important. You can't just dismiss it as something unnecessary.

Well. there ARE players here fitting your original description. It is a interesting story, and a few times while playing I have thought 'it would be nice to see 'x' happen in the story' only to find it already included later. That's not a common thing to find in a game these days, let alone a porn game.

But people DO like to feel that a game developer respects a player's time by not making non-game things (the interface) overly difficult/too complicated/too simple/awkward/clunky. Such that it 'disappears' from thought after a while and only the game content is forefront in the players mind. All of the disciplines required to make a game from art, writing, and coding are VERY different skills. Plus this is the internet. If you want criticism, you ARE in the right place. lol

Well, I’m glad that you can read English well enough so I don’t feel AS guilty for monopolizing your time then. lol

Your in-game writing is functional. There were only a couple of times where I had to re-read something or was a little confused as to your meaning. I would think things that involve a lot of inner dialog or feelings would be extremely difficult to write in another language since most people struggle to crystallize thoughts into words even in their own language! Not to mention that there are plenty of native speakers that find it 'a challenge' to write in English too.

 

[DonDimonGames]

Spoiler: sleep cocktail

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Then I am very impressed. That is A LOT of work. Won't you have to keep flow diagrams to keep track of all the potential different dialogs you have to write? Won't the variety of texts continue to increase, depending on who did or did not do for the NPCs responses/statements? Or am I overstating the amount of variables?

So far, I can manage without diagrams or anything like that. But I could definitely use them. There are many programs for screenwriters on the Internet that make it easy to track a character's history and relationship with other characters, and even what dialogues they had. I will start writing the script for the next game in one of these programs. And, if it becomes too difficult, then I will finish the 'Mad Turn' scenario in it.

I would think things that involve a lot of inner dialog or feelings would be extremely difficult to write in another language since most people struggle to crystallize thoughts into words even in their own language! Not to mention that there are plenty of native speakers that find it 'a challenge' to write in English too.

It was difficult at first, but recently it became one of the simplest parts of working on the game. The other parts demand much more labor.

 

[quyxote]

Hey DonDimon!
For me one of the best parts of the game is the nightclub. It would be nice if that part was expanded even more (mainly for Anna)! Do you intend to do more parts like this in the future?

 

[Manul56]

Hey DonDimon!
For me one of the best parts of the game is the nightclub. It would be nice if that part was expanded even more (mainly for Anna)! Do you intend to do more parts like this in the future?

Man ,i totally miss the nightculb scene in my playthroug.It seems i miss a lot
Also ,i would like to know if in future updates it would be possible to become a beast whit Matt ,he is one of my favorite protagonist ever and i just want t win as i am. Please just dont make the NTR route obligatory ,this is one of my favourite games in history wise and just dont want to be drstoyed emotionaly more.
PS:Fuck Anna ,i hope we can tell her to fuck herself

 

[quyxote]

Man ,i totally miss the nightculb scene in my playthroug.It seems i miss a lot
Also ,i would like to know if in future updates it would be possible to become a beast whit Matt ,he is one of my favorite protagonist ever and i just want t win as i am. Please just dont make the NTR route obligatory ,this is one of my favourite games in history wise and just dont want to be drstoyed emotionaly more.
PS:Fuck Anna ,i hope we can tell her to fuck herself

Hey Manul56
Like you, this is also my favorite game of all time. But now I'm curious. It seems that we like him for different reasons. For me, Anna has been, and continues to be, the best character (even so, I think it would be really nice to have an ending where he gets fucked for what she did to Matt!) What attracts you the most in this game?

Sorry for my bad english!

 

[texasterry]

Spoiler: sleep cocktail

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Wow. And here I thought that I was clever to just find the Brandon/Claire route. *bows in respect* It seems like the developer was playing chess while I was playing checkers... And it looks like somebody (not named the developer) needs to replay that again... I hate to do it, but I'll say it anyway... a gallery would be REALLY nice for this game. This section of the game needs to be played multiple times to really appreciate all of it. The chapter replay helps some but still doesn't do it full justice. It does make me wonder why you went with Unity over Ren'py though? There may be an obvious answer, but I've never developed a video game either...

So far, I can manage without diagrams or anything like that. But I could definitely use them. There are many programs for screenwriters on the Internet that make it easy to track a character's history and relationship with other characters, and even what dialogues they had. I will start writing the script for the next game in one of these programs. And, if it becomes too difficult, then I will finish the 'Mad Turn' scenario in it.

George RR Martin (Game of Thrones author) writes all of his massive novels on an old Windows DOS machine and uses a superfan that he knows to track all the previously written things about all his various characters in the book series. So unless you manage to bump into THAT guy, I guess a free script writing program on the web sounds like a very smart choice...

It was difficult at first, but recently it became one of the simplest parts of working on the game. The other parts demand much more labor.

Well, if you have to write the story outline, block the story out, maybe thumbnail each scene, write a script, acquire or create then work with all the 3D environments, acquire or create all the characters, pose the characters, light the scenes, place the camera (to crop the scene) render it as many times as it takes to get it right, maybe it touch up or edit the renders for resolution, assemble it, code it, and bug test it (plus whatever else I forgot) all by yourself, so I guess finally writing a translation of your final script in a foreign language COULD seem easy... lol

 

[texasterry]

A number of people have been writing why they like the game, so I guess I'd put in my additional 'two cents' (since I've already written about thoudsnd times that already...)

I don't normally play games with NTR, but I gave this one a try and and actually liked it. It surprised the hell out of me too. I liked it because it was FAIR, for the most part. Most NTR games you (the protagonist) are the beta male, surrounded by Alphas and the only choices that you are allowed to make are between 'bad' and 'worse' with the promise that things will only spiral downwards (quickly.) Most of the stories seem very contrived or forced to me (even for a porn game, which is saying a lot.) And most take themselves seriously as well (not a parody.)

This is the first game that I've found where the protagonist in an NTR porn game that resists has some glimmer of success. Normally, you are only allowed to resist to to set up the proverbial 'walk under the precarious boulder,' only to be smashed by ever increasingly spectacular humiliations.

Yeah, the A**hole Alpha males are running around still doing what they do, but it's a lot more 'tolerable' to watch because of the reasons above. And any good story has a villain or two to overcome, and this is where I think this is all headed, assuming the player makes choices to help, rather than sabotage the main characters.

Finally, given that the story is only about halfway finished, it seems that the protagonist could plausibly make that transformation from the crushed victim of Alpha males to someone that takes his revenge on all that have wronged him.

And that list has seemingly has grown to include Anna, with this last update, as those 'worthy of a lesson....'

 

[Manul56]

Hey Manul56
Like you, this is also my favorite game of all time. But now I'm curious. It seems that we like him for different reasons. For me, Anna has been, and continues to be, the best character (even so, I think it would be really nice to have an ending where he gets fucked for what she did to Matt!) What attracts you the most in this game?

Sorry for my bad english!

What atratts the most to me is that i relate a lot to Matt.I was also treated bad by life in the past so i kinda see him as myself,and about Anna it just that i think that the bretay was to much , i doubt she would be able to redem herself

 

[DonDimonGames]

Hey DonDimon!
For me one of the best parts of the game is the nightclub. It would be nice if that part was expanded even more (mainly for Anna)! Do you intend to do more parts like this in the future?

I'm not sure about extending the night club scene because the plot should develop. But I plan to create the chapter where most of the characters will meet, and the main characters will be able to interact with them all like it was in the night club.

 

[DonDimonGames]

Man ,i totally miss the nightculb scene in my playthroug.It seems i miss a lot
Also ,i would like to know if in future updates it would be possible to become a beast whit Matt ,he is one of my favorite protagonist ever and i just want t win as i am. Please just dont make the NTR route obligatory ,this is one of my favourite games in history wise and just dont want to be drstoyed emotionaly more.
PS:Fuck Anna ,i hope we can tell her to fuck herself

Good to know that Matt gets such support from players. Do not worry. The NTR route won't be obligatory, and the villains will get what they deserve(if players make appropriate choices). I'm glad you like this game so much! Thank you! Do not be emotionally destroyed anymore.

 

[DonDimonGames]

Hey Manul56
Like you, this is also my favorite game of all time. But now I'm curious. It seems that we like him for different reasons. For me, Anna has been, and continues to be, the best character (even so, I think it would be really nice to have an ending where he gets fucked for what she did to Matt!) What attracts you the most in this game?

Sorry for my bad english!

Were you disappointed in her after she slept with Ramon behind Matt's back?

 

[DonDimonGames]

A number of people have been writing why they like the game, so I guess I'd put in my additional 'two cents' (since I've already written about thoudsnd times that already...)

I don't normally play games with NTR, but I gave this one a try and and actually liked it. It surprised the hell out of me too. I liked it because it was FAIR, for the most part. Most NTR games you (the protagonist) are the beta male, surrounded by Alphas and the only choices that you are allowed to make are between 'bad' and 'worse' with the promise that things will only spiral downwards (quickly.) Most of the stories seem very contrived or forced to me (even for a porn game, which is saying a lot.) And most take themselves seriously as well (not a parody.)

This is the first game that I've found where the protagonist in an NTR porn game that resists has some glimmer of success. Normally, you are only allowed to resist to to set up the proverbial 'walk under the precarious boulder,' only to be smashed by ever increasingly spectacular humiliations.

Yeah, the A**hole Alpha males are running around still doing what they do, but it's a lot more 'tolerable' to watch because of the reasons above. And any good story has a villain of two to overcome, and this is where I think this is all headed, assuming the player makes choices to help, rather than sabotage the main characters.

Finally, given that the story is only about halfway finished, it seems that the protagonist could plausibly make that transformation from the crushed victim of Alpha males to someone that takes his revenge on all that have wronged him.

And that list has seemingly has grown to include Anna, with this last update, as those 'worthy of a lesson....'

Your comments are very informative and useful as usual. Especially for those who doubt whether to play this game or not because of the NTR tag.