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Maviarab

Dark Lord of the Coffee
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Jul 12, 2020
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  • Why after last "big action" they were just enjoying drink and having fun and give a fuck about MC? Did they think they didn't make it and give shit about it? Because no one even mentioned him once...
  • What was that? Am I missing something?
'IF'...you were paying attention, she let's slip while talking to him (while he in hosptal bed after waking up from coma) that they sent him in unprepared and never expected to him to live...then she stops herself before carrying on.

So you're correct, not once, ever, do any of them give a crap. He a tool...they care about the relic, he is completely irelevent to them personally and as an organisation.
 

Impurity2937

Member
Dec 31, 2022
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'IF'...you were paying attention, she let's slip while talking to him (while he in hosptal bed after waking up from coma) that they sent him in unprepared and never expected to him to live...then she stops herself before carrying on.

So you're correct, not once, ever, do any of them give a crap. He a tool...they care about the relic, he is completely irelevent to them personally and as an organisation.
Yeah, I know what she said at the hospital but it is still out of my mind how easily they just gave a fuck about him...

I get that they sent him "unprepared" etc but no one even mentioned him, like was never there, drinking and laughing, what a scums. Beside that, the whole game they create some "big thing" around him, like he is Neo in Matrix and his Relic is super important to them and what? All they wanted from him was to do some easy computer shit (it is not rocket science as they said) to save people they didn't even save? There was just a little girl and based on Fiona's reaction she wasn't even someone important or something, they expected more people there. And all this talk about how they want to save him and how important his Relic is but he was almost stopped by three people and they potentially lost the relic and no one cares?

They basically just betrayed him, used him, let him die and went for a drink, laughing about how fun the evening was. So yeah, that just does not add, weird as fuck imo and I still don't understand that. I hope there will be any path of being hostile and mistrust to them in the next episodes...
 
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Maviarab

Dark Lord of the Coffee
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Jul 12, 2020
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They basically just betrayed him, used him, let him die and went for a drink, laughing about how fun the evening was. So yeah, that just does not add, weird as fuck imo and I still don't understand that. I hope there will be any path of being hostile and mistrust to them in the next episodes...
Now this is the path!
 

Impurity2937

Member
Dec 31, 2022
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Now this is the path!
I liked plot twist in Once in a lifetime where you were basically "fighting evil" the whole game but power corrupted you and at the end you could choose to place yourself as the most evil character instead just defeat him and "let the good win". Not sure how it could look like here tho, siding with Tobias maybe? Or became independent power? Well, it is just a VN so I do not expect anything spectacular here but I love this universe, great potential in there.
 

S1nsational

Engaged Member
Mar 31, 2022
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Not sure how it could look like here tho
Ours is supposedly the purest power of subjugation and conquest, so I wouldn't rule out our becoming a god.

it is just a VN so I do not expect anything spectacular here
That is such an elitist attitude, and begs the question of where do you draw the line between media deserving of respect and expectations, and those undeserving.
 

Ottoeight

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Mar 13, 2021
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Anyway... I do not know how much hype is about this game since I discovered it last week and finished couple days ago already but wanted to share some thoughts.
Well, since you just discovered it last week...

this game had regular updates till april 2021 (3.2.0), 1 update in august 2021 (3.3.0), 1 update only in 2022 and no updates in 2023. Just to let you know.
 

Regularus

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Apr 2, 2019
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Oh that's sad to learn this.
Mad World is such a great AVN and now it feels it's on the verge of being abandonned if it's not already. :(
 

Impurity2937

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Dec 31, 2022
241
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Well, since you just discovered it last week...

this game had regular updates till april 2021 (3.2.0), 1 update in august 2021 (3.3.0), 1 update only in 2022 and no updates in 2023. Just to let you know.
Oh that's sad to learn this.
Mad World is such a great AVN and now it feels it's on the verge of being abandonned if it's not already. :(
Well... Based on f95zone activity and his Patreon Capella seems to be still in the business so I hope it will not be abandoned... If he decides to abandon project because of lack of time/funds, I hope he will at least relieve rest of the story :rolleyes: But yeah, longer and longer update time periods is a common problem with all VNs really.
 
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Regularus

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Well... Based on f95zone activity and his Patreon Capella seems to be still in the business so I hope it will not be abandoned... If he decides to abandon project because of lack of time/funds, I hope he will at least relieve rest of the story :rolleyes: But yeah, longer and longer update time periods is a common problem with all VNs really.
just checked the patreon page (looks like the posts are readable on his page even without membership there) :

And it looks there have been a huge problem with the dev having a massive harddrive failure and losing lots of data.
I just hope he'll be able to recover most of what he lost and that the Mad World related content was safe (hopefully he had several backup of said content) .
 
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allanl9020142

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2018
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That is such an elitist attitude, and begs the question of where do you draw the line between media deserving of respect and expectations, and those undeserving.
Well, there are a few factors that make VNs still feel a little raw compared to other types of media.
1. It's usually done by a solo dev who can only do so much all at once - coding, art/renders, soundtrack, writing, proofreading, bug testing, etc. Point is, things can fall through the cracks. Even the most popular ones. It's really a jack of all trades and master of none type of deal.

2. Suspension of disbelief is required more often than not when regarding plot holes, realism of the situation, etc.

3. There are indie devs for games and ones that are just ongoing projects essentially but VNs are usually the ones with this paradigm of the majority of its life being spent as an incomplete, ongoing project. I say that because most of the people following a VN will be following it throughout its whole process and not just "buy" it when it's done.

4. Low barrier to entry. While great because it gives anyone a chance to create something good, it also means a lot of devs with low skills flood the space with low quality stuff.

5. This kind of hits on #3 again but the patron - supporter model has created a kind of low-trust relationship. While great because it gives creators the freedom to do things on their own terms, there have also been a lot of VNs that are just abandoned after gaining traction or even some devs who have abused the system and milked supporters. That can result in a general low credibility view on VNs or people who just don't keep high expectations.

6. Also while there are people who support the creators monetarily, the fact that you can just get them on forums like this probably makes people think not to take it as seriously. It's that old abundance/scarcity mindset. They might think what's free, cheap, or easily acquired isn't that good and what's behind a pay wall or expensive just has to be good or at least have some standard of quality to it. (Which, from my experience holds a little truth but isn't always the case. It's just lazy thinking to apply it to everything.)

Overall:
While I don't personally believe all the points I made, I can still understand the sentiment of not having overall high expectations for this medium when compared to things with huge, multi-million budgets. I mean, these are all still essentially indie games. I feel like it doesn't have such a negative implication of being elitist. I think it's more or less "fair enough" when viewed from that perspective. It also just makes the really good ones just shine even brighter for me. The ones that take it to the next level and really start brushing up against the production level for high budget crap.

Disclaimer:
- I honestly prefer VNs over other types of media these days. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. I ESPECIALLY like Mad World. I can't even remember the last AAA game, movie, or tv show I've played/watched. It's all just been indie dev stuff, reading, or old stuff.
- Which is why I really appreciate really good ones. Finding VNs like Mad World is like finding a diamond in a pile of rocks.
- Just in case anyone might think I'm implying something about this dev or this game, I'm not. In no way I think he's milking. For a part-time, solo dev his pace is perfectly understandable and even though I only found this one a few months ago, each chapter has a fuck ton of content. So he definitely delivers the goods.
- I also think that unless it's some really piss poor quality stuff, respect should be paid for the huge amount of work that goes into these. Especially if it's done by just one or two people. The really bad stuff seems more like a cash grab rather than anyone with actual passion.
 

S1nsational

Engaged Member
Mar 31, 2022
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Well, there are a few factors that make VNs still feel a little raw compared to other types of media.
1. It's usually done by a solo dev who can only do so much all at once - coding, art/renders, soundtrack, writing, proofreading, bug testing, etc. Point is, things can fall through the cracks. Even the most popular ones. It's really a jack of all trades and master of none type of deal.
That's the same with a lot of things though, not to the same extent typically true, but still. Web Comics, Novels, plays, non-VN indie games, all have those same issues to varying degrees.

2. Suspension of disbelief is required more often than not when regarding plot holes, realism of the situation, etc.
That is in no way limited to indie VNs. The vast majority of main stream media has all those same problems, some genres more than others, but none are immune.

3. There are indie devs for games and ones that are just ongoing projects essentially but VNs are usually the ones with this paradigm of the majority of its life being spent as an incomplete, ongoing project. I say that because most of the people following a VN will be following it throughout its whole process and not just "buy" it when it's done.
I'm not sure if you're talking about this in terms of quality of content or in terms of amount of content, but I have comparisons for both. Yes, the ongoing work is somewhat unique, but not entirely so. For instance, if you're talking about the amount of content, games such as this can be compared to serialized comics and magna, and to a lesser degree full novels and tv shows where you have to wait between releases of the new books or episodes. The work isn't released in a full complete state from the start. If you mean in terms of quality, you just have to look at the releases of AAA and AA games, where there's going to be a Day One Patch and a steady streams of other patches and fixes to improve the quality of the game.

4. Low barrier to entry. While great because it gives anyone a chance to create something good, it also means a lot of devs with low skills flood the space with low quality stuff.
The low barrier for entry, is somewhat one of the better points, but I think it's more about a "numbers game", like the more available, the more are going to be good and bad.

5. This kind of hits on #3 again but the patron - supporter model has created a kind of low-trust relationship. While great because it gives creators the freedom to do things on their own terms, there have also been a lot of VNs that are just abandoned after gaining traction or even some devs who have abused the system and milked supporters. That can result in a general low credibility view on VNs or people who just don't keep high expectations.
That's not really about VNs though, more about the funding model. It's like arguing the the pros and cons of Pateron and Subscribestar and then taking it out on the things they fund.

6. Also while there are people who support the creators monetarily, the fact that you can just get them on forums like this probably makes people think not to take it as seriously. It's that old abundance/scarcity mindset. They might think what's free, cheap, or easily acquired isn't that good and what's behind a pay wall or expensive just has to be good or at least have some standard of quality to it. (Which, from my experience holds a little truth but isn't always the case. It's just lazy thinking to apply it to everything.)
It's lazy and not how people treat other forms of media they pirate.

Overall:
While I don't personally believe all the points I made, I can still understand the sentiment of not having overall high expectations for this medium when compared to things with huge, multi-million budgets. I mean, these are all still essentially indie games. I feel like it doesn't have such a negative implication of being elitist. I think it's more or less "fair enough" when viewed from that perspective. It also just makes the really good ones just shine even brighter for me. The ones that take it to the next level and really start brushing up against the production level for high budget crap.
Some of the worst pieces of media have been made by companies with massive budgets, some of the best has been with a tiny budget. Throwing a years salary at an indie dev would only mean that they can focous on the game full time. It won't magically improve the quality of their writing, or their coding necessarily, or anything else. Chances are they'll be able to buy a better computer and more and better assets, but still the quality of the story and thus the game would remain mostly unchanged

Disclaimer:
- I honestly prefer VNs over other types of media these days. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. I ESPECIALLY like Mad World. I can't even remember the last AAA game, movie, or tv show I've played/watched. It's all just been indie dev stuff, reading, or old stuff.
- Which is why I really appreciate really good ones. Finding VNs like Mad World is like finding a diamond in a pile of rocks.
- Just in case anyone might think I'm implying something about this dev or this game, I'm not. In no way I think he's milking. For a part-time, solo dev his pace is perfectly understandable and even though I only found this one a few months ago, each chapter has a fuck ton of content. So he definitely delivers the goods.
- I also think that unless it's some really piss poor quality stuff, respect should be paid for the huge amount of work that goes into these. Especially if it's done by just one or two people. The really bad stuff seems more like a cash grab rather than anyone with actual passion.
My media tastes aren't limited to VNs.

What's good or bad, for everything, is highly subjective, a lot of people will agree on certain point of what makes something good or bad, but tastes will always vary.
 

Impurity2937

Member
Dec 31, 2022
241
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Well, there are a few factors that make VNs still feel a little raw compared to other types of media.
1. It's usually done by a solo dev who can only do so much all at once - coding, art/renders, soundtrack, writing, proofreading, bug testing, etc. Point is, things can fall through the cracks. Even the most popular ones. It's really a jack of all trades and master of none type of deal.

2. Suspension of disbelief is required more often than not when regarding plot holes, realism of the situation, etc.

3. There are indie devs for games and ones that are just ongoing projects essentially but VNs are usually the ones with this paradigm of the majority of its life being spent as an incomplete, ongoing project. I say that because most of the people following a VN will be following it throughout its whole process and not just "buy" it when it's done.

4. Low barrier to entry. While great because it gives anyone a chance to create something good, it also means a lot of devs with low skills flood the space with low quality stuff.

5. This kind of hits on #3 again but the patron - supporter model has created a kind of low-trust relationship. While great because it gives creators the freedom to do things on their own terms, there have also been a lot of VNs that are just abandoned after gaining traction or even some devs who have abused the system and milked supporters. That can result in a general low credibility view on VNs or people who just don't keep high expectations.

6. Also while there are people who support the creators monetarily, the fact that you can just get them on forums like this probably makes people think not to take it as seriously. It's that old abundance/scarcity mindset. They might think what's free, cheap, or easily acquired isn't that good and what's behind a pay wall or expensive just has to be good or at least have some standard of quality to it. (Which, from my experience holds a little truth but isn't always the case. It's just lazy thinking to apply it to everything.)

Overall:
While I don't personally believe all the points I made, I can still understand the sentiment of not having overall high expectations for this medium when compared to things with huge, multi-million budgets. I mean, these are all still essentially indie games. I feel like it doesn't have such a negative implication of being elitist. I think it's more or less "fair enough" when viewed from that perspective. It also just makes the really good ones just shine even brighter for me. The ones that take it to the next level and really start brushing up against the production level for high budget crap.

Disclaimer:
- I honestly prefer VNs over other types of media these days. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. I ESPECIALLY like Mad World. I can't even remember the last AAA game, movie, or tv show I've played/watched. It's all just been indie dev stuff, reading, or old stuff.
- Which is why I really appreciate really good ones. Finding VNs like Mad World is like finding a diamond in a pile of rocks.
- Just in case anyone might think I'm implying something about this dev or this game, I'm not. In no way I think he's milking. For a part-time, solo dev his pace is perfectly understandable and even though I only found this one a few months ago, each chapter has a fuck ton of content. So he definitely delivers the goods.
- I also think that unless it's some really piss poor quality stuff, respect should be paid for the huge amount of work that goes into these. Especially if it's done by just one or two people. The really bad stuff seems more like a cash grab rather than anyone with actual passion.
Wow, you basically took all my chaotically wandering thoughts in my mind and somehow forged it into text I would never be able to write on my own as a response, despite fact that I tried couple of times lol. This is the best "exactly what I wanted to say" I ever experienced :coffee:

Hey, man. I'm just really curious. What's your native language? I've seen that phrase a lot and the grammar structure is just so odd. I always wonder what that's being translated from.
Now you got my interest too, what's wrong with that phrase? Polish, although not sure it really matters here... I think I have seen/heard it so many times that I just used that.
 
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allanl9020142

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Wow, you basically took all my chaotically wandering thoughts in my mind and somehow forged it into text I would never be able to write on my own as a response, despite fact that I tried couple of times lol. This is the best "exactly what I wanted to say" I ever experienced :coffee:
Haha idk, man. Like I stated. I don't necessarily subscribe to all of those points. I've just browsed this forum enough and played enough really shitty ones to get a general feel of what might cause people to have lower standards. It doesn't mean I don't like VNs. It's the opposite, really. It's just recognizable patterns for most of these VNs. I go in hoping for the best but expecting something mid. If it meets the current standard of VNs then I don't lose. If it exceeds them then it feels like I just hit gold. Mad World is for sure gold.

Now you got my interest too, what's wrong with that phrase? Polish, although not sure it really matters here... I think I have seen/heard it so many times that I just used that.
Hmm, well. I'm not sure how to explain this succinctly. I'm already pretty long-winded so this might turn out to be long.

"What a scums"

- Scum means "a worthless or contemptible person or group of people" within the context you used it." I get that you're referring to multiple people so logically you'd be thinking the plural form of the word is "scums". It's just that I don't think there is a plural form for scum. Tried Googling it to check. Couldn't find anything.
- It just reads really awkwardly.
- I think it's almost like thinking the plural form for "deer" is "deers". Nope, it's just "deer". "Deer" is both the singular and plural form. It just depends on how it's worded.
- Also, the article "a" denotes a singular person or group. So actually taking out the "a" could imply you're talking about multiple people instead of one person.
- So it could maybe work like "What scum." instead of "What a scum".
- Alternatively, you could say "What scumbags." Pretty much the same meaning.
- So basically it's just all sorts of jarring to read lol.

I asked what your native language was because I always find things that get translated awkwardly to make perfect sense in one's native language or it's just that original language simply has different grammar rules. This exact phrase in particular I've seen a lot so I always wondered if there was a pattern to it like it was just being translated from a language that a large enough group of people all collectively speak for it to be so common.

For example in Chinese.
- It's common to see "Although ... but ..." like "Although we have the equipment, but we don't have the time" (not a good example, just couldn't think of anything on the spot lol)
- In English, although and but are redundant. You don't need both and it also sounds super weird.
- It's simply just how grammar works in Chinese but not in English.

Anyways, thanks for listening (reading). It was just a curiosity. Also, I can sympathize with your sentiment of lowered expectations but I really feel like there's something special about VNs that you can't get anywhere else. Plus there are a good amount that really do exceed those expectations. It doesn't really matter how you want to see them in general, I just hope if you do find ones that break away those points that you help get the word out because those are the ones that could definitely take VNs to a new standard.
 
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Impurity2937

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Dec 31, 2022
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Hmm, well. I'm not sure how to explain this succinctly. I'm already pretty long-winded so this might turn out to be long.

"What a scums"

- Scum means "a worthless or contemptible person or group of people" within the context you used it." I get that you're referring to multiple people so logically you'd be thinking the plural form of the word is "scums". It's just that I don't think there is a plural form for scum. Tried Googling it to check. Couldn't find anything.
- It just reads really awkwardly.
- I think it's almost like thinking the plural form for "deer" is "deers". Nope, it's just "deer". "Deer" is both the singular and plural form. It just depends on how it's worded.
- Also, the article "a" denotes a singular person or group. So actually taking out the "a" could imply you're talking about multiple people instead of one person.
- So it could maybe work like "What scum." instead of "What a scum".
- Alternatively, you could say "What scumbags." Pretty much the same meaning.
- So basically it's just all sorts of jarring to read lol.

I asked what your native language was because I always find things that get translated awkwardly to make perfect sense in one's native language or it's just that original language simply has different grammar rules. This exact phrase in particular I've seen a lot so I always wondered if there was a pattern to it like it was just being translated from a language that a large enough group of people all collectively speak for it to be so common.

For example in Chinese.
- It's common to see "Although ... but ..." like "Although we have the equipment, but we don't have the time" (not a good example, just couldn't think of anything on the spot lol)
- In English, although and but are redundant. You don't need both and it also sounds super weird.
- It's simply just how grammar works in Chinese but not in English.
Wow, you nailed it :D I was not expecting such a long screed, now I'm afraid to write anything knowing how imperfect my English is but yeah, it is great to learn new things.

I have nothing for my defense tho, despite the obvious which is my lack of knowledge ofc. I put "a" and "the" when and where I feel like (to highlight, make it sound bigger or something lol) and in Polish there is not only just plural form but so I guess typing "scums" was something natural for me. "What scum", "What scumbags" sounds little hmm... weird, "boring", like there is something missing so yeah, probably my native language thing after all lol.

To not spam thread any further, lets continue in DM if needed.
 
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BTungsteno

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Jul 10, 2019
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Yeah, I know what she said at the hospital but it is still out of my mind how easily they just gave a fuck about him...

I get that they sent him "unprepared" etc but no one even mentioned him, like was never there, drinking and laughing, what a scums. Beside that, the whole game they create some "big thing" around him, like he is Neo in Matrix and his Relic is super important to them and what? All they wanted from him was to do some easy computer shit (it is not rocket science as they said) to save people they didn't even save? There was just a little girl and based on Fiona's reaction she wasn't even someone important or something, they expected more people there. And all this talk about how they want to save him and how important his Relic is but he was almost stopped by three people and they potentially lost the relic and no one cares?

They basically just betrayed him, used him, let him die and went for a drink, laughing about how fun the evening was. So yeah, that just does not add, weird as fuck imo and I still don't understand that. I hope there will be any path of being hostile and mistrust to them in the next episodes...
Don't forget the part where the doctor ask him to stop make them waste medical supplies needed for their members on him, even if he's technically one of the new members...
 

allanl9020142

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Aug 23, 2018
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Wow, you nailed it :D I was not expecting such a long screed, now I'm afraid to write anything knowing how imperfect my English is but yeah, it is great to learn new things.

I have nothing for my defense tho, despite the obvious which is my lack of knowledge ofc. I put "a" and "the" when and where I feel like (to highlight, make it sound bigger or something lol) and in Polish there is not only just plural form but so I guess typing "scums" was something natural for me. "What scum", "What scumbags" sounds little hmm... weird, "boring", like there is something missing so yeah, probably my native language thing after all lol.

To not spam thread any further, lets continue in DM if needed.
One last reply and I'm done. Promise.

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MORE IMPORTANTLY. BACK TO MAD WORLD.
I'm really hoping we see an update by the end of the year but that was before his PC got that BSOD.:cry:

Also, about one of your points from earlier. Admittedly, I didn't really think too deeply about the others just chilling out after the battle without even giving him a second thought. I just kind of figured that they thought his job was supposed to be really simple. So they just assumed he got in, did the thing, got out, and went home.

The way you explained it made it take on a really dark lens lol. Interesting food for thought. It's like I knew how their relationships were established but I figured they cared more about him. Especially because it seems like he's too important to let die, personal feelings aside. There was also that scene where Fiona beats the shit out of that one lady for attempting to uh ... make unwanted advances towards the MC. So I just never even considered that possibility.

I'm sure Capella will elaborate on what happened back there in future updates. Maybe not. All I know is that I just want Paeonia to be an active love interest lol. That character is what caught my attention in the first place.
 

S1nsational

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Mar 31, 2022
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I think, and hope, that a lot of the malice is actual partly ignorance or perhaps apathy. The doctor being hostile makes sense to me, because we're aren't actually part of The Tombkeepers (or whatever the org is called I can't remember), so her being pissed at using expensive and rare medicines etc on us, an outsider makes sense.

The team we're working with seem to be made up of people who are used to mostly working solo, and are all pretty experienced and skilled. I think their forgetting about us after the mission was more ignorance than malice, and I'm not 100% convinced they did in fact forget about us, assuming it was always the plan to regroup back at the base where we walk in on everyone. Saying that, I'm not so sure peoples reactions would have been all that different had it been one of the other characters to walk in so beaten up after not being seen during a mission.

At the end of the day they're using us and we're using them.
 
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Regularus

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On a playthrough i decided to get the MC to try to follow the Fiona route (as she was the only member of the group that had dialogues hinting at a possible path), and several actions seemed to hint at Fiona (very slowly) mellowing to the idea of a possible romance with the MC.

That's why it rather surprised me to see how the group party went after the battle after following Fiona's route with none (including Fiona), cared to check if the MC was at least alive.
So basically it meant all of them really considered him as only an asset to further their goal and ditch him once he wouldn't be useful anymore.
Though it was odd with all the talk about how powerful the power granted to him by Tobias is, would have made even more sense at that point for the group to use the opportunity to try to take his artifact if he was dead (or have the doctor using the opportunity of the MC getting comatose to extract it)
 
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