Ren'Py Completed Milfy City [v1.0e] [ICSTOR]

[Darknesssilent]

The "bad taste in many fans" excuse means nothing, that's just pushing your prior "chaos" goalpost down the field, with a helping of "honesty" questions.

Just because your argument is full of obvious holes - and keeps meandering with each post (i.e., NOW it's about the accuracy of an estimate or two) - doesn't mean I'm loyal to ICSTOR.

Quite the opposite, I detest poor and/or unfair arguments/assertions in any forum where I'm a member. Otherwise, I have no investment in this game or ICSTOR's Patreon. Heck, this is far from my favorite adult game, even though I admire the technical work.

The problem most people have is the fact that he has other devs, that could have worked on the game well he was off play with himself, i was a patreon of his tell i brought up the issue of no update in his discord and got banned for it, the whole adding the extra content on top of the already over delayed update was stupid. He makes between 12k to 53k a month from patreon so you can't tell me he couldn't afford to hire others for his team to work on the update.

 

[fried]

The problem most people have is the fact that he has other devs, that could have worked on the game well he was off play with himself, i was a patreon of his tell i brought up the issue of no update in his discord and got banned for it, the whole adding the extra content on top of the already over delayed update was stupid. He makes between 12k to 53k a month from patreon so you can't tell me he couldn't afford to hire others for his team to work on the update.

It sounds like you are proposing that he hire someone to manage his scene setup, plot direction, render style - with all of his technical assets and similar hardware - because some people wanted things sooner. I'm not sure if you have ever worked in a project involving these elements, but it's not quite so straightforward to simply farm out, unfortunately.

So, paying for that kind of help would not necessarily guarantee the level of quality and direction he'd prefer. It's not just about money in this case: he's a one-person production team and hires a writer and coder part-time.

 

[Darknesssilent]

It sounds like you are proposing that he hire someone to manage his scene setup, plot direction, render style - with all of his technical assets and similar hardware - because some people wanted things sooner. I'm not sure if you have ever worked in a project involving these elements, but it's not quite so straightforward to simply farm out, unfortunately.

So, paying for that kind of help would not necessarily guarantee the level of quality and direction he'd prefer. It's not just about money in this case: he's a one-person production team and hires a writer and coder part-time.

your also forgetting that the last update was in Nov of 2018, its now coming to Sept 2019 which is 10 months for an update, this dev does not release hugh updates maybe 15 to 30 min gameplay if you use your save, he came back after his and announced adding more to the update that no one ever asked for setting the 0.06 update further away from release,i could see less people complaining about the update if he finished something before he went on break but didn't. Instead he left came back adding to the update new content and delaying it, yet his patreon was still being charged with no new content and no reason to why he added new content,just being delayed over and over again. And keep white knighting him there should be no reason for a dev that makes that much a month not to release content ever 2-3 months not ever 10 months.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

The only people complaining are leechers in this site. Pretty sure his patrons don't bother with delays seeing how his support remained stable.

 

[privitude]

The sad fact is this update is going to suck either way,the cow sister and the ugly ceceila or whatever is getting a update,don't like either of them,next update will be Sara and shes the only charecter worth playing this game for,guess I will see you guys in another year good luck fapping to the cow sister

Wowwww dude. So you're not just really into the young, pubescent girl...you're actually repulsed by female characters with breasts...Freud would have a field day with you.

 

[Bill_Buttlicker]

View attachment 381916

How nice. What's your point?

 

[Viressa]

The problem most people have is the fact that he has other devs, that could have worked on the game well he was off play with himself, i was a patreon of his tell i brought up the issue of no update in his discord and got banned for it, the whole adding the extra content on top of the already over delayed update was stupid. He makes between 12k to 53k a month from patreon so you can't tell me he couldn't afford to hire others for his team to work on the update.

Artists are not machines where you pour money in on one end and art comes out the other end. Hiring a second artist does not give you twice the amount of art. In fact it would just cause a ton of problems because:

1. Artists are not interchangeable: If you have half the content being created by some other person, that's going to be very different than what they or yourself would have created alone. You can manage this to a degree but it's impossible to eliminate it entirely.

2. When you hire a second artist to help you with your project, you now have to do additional work of managing them so they're producing the right content that's appropriate for the work. This additional work is hardest, and thus sucks up the most time, right at the start when the new artist first joins the project. The time savings you gain by having a second artist are completely swallowed up and then some by this additional labor, at least for the first few months. You'd have even *worse* problems with delays. And hiring even more won't help: The number of images they can produce per day goes up linearly, but the work of managing them all increases exponentially.


Now this is not to say that collaborative projects are always bad. Eventually, after a great upfront investment of time and money, multiple artists can work out a pipeline where they do indeed become faster at producing content than a single artist. It's just not the magic solution you think it is.

 

[sandstorm1872]

The problem with patreon is that it makes assholes like this guy see themselves as The Boss of the artists. And, like all capitalist bosses, they see their employees not as people, but as inanimate objects they can squeeze content out of, and they can always get just a little bit more by squeezing even harder. To a Boss, you'll always be a lazy slacker who should be doing more for them. No amount of performance will ever be satisfactory.

If ICSTOR came back and immediately dropped an update, they'd be bitching that he took a break in the first place. If he dropped another update with 1000 renders the very next week, they'd be bitching "Well why can't you do that every day?" If he somehow started dropping an update like that every day, they'd bitch "Well if you weren't so LAZY you could do it twice a day!"

Sigh, if only Disney & Pixar had such considerate attitudes towards their artists on the clock. Or modern movies where the hundreds of VFX artists are contracted to work in a schedule. Try this rant with your employer and see if "The Boss" is spares your butt from being canned.

ICSTOR isn't a struggling grad student whose side project made it this big. May be he was struggling when he began, definitely not in 2018! So when a person makes decent money off his artwork, even if it is for a porn game, there's some amount of professionalism expected, at least by the ones who are his sincere patrons. As someone stated above, $40k is twice the normal income someone normally earns in Europe and I can vouch for that as well.


As I pointed repeatedly, there are many devs/artists teams that have much fewer patrons. Case in point -- NLT has close to 2600 patrons compared to ICSTOR's 6873, yet NLT delivers consistently in a 3 week cycle, for over 2 years with all updates having 40 - 50 mins of gameplay including true,non-repeating animations.

So calm your tits and instead of defending what's wrong, be bold to call out on the mess that it is.

P.S -- And just like A-holes that everyone has, this is my opinion. Instead of picking up on me, better focus on the argument.

 

[cerebotio2]

Estimated date for the next update?

 

[sarge87]

Estimated date for the next update?

In the next couple weeks.

 

[Bill_Buttlicker]

Sigh, if only Disney & Pixar had such considerate attitudes towards their artists on the clock. Or modern movies where the hundreds of VFX artists are contracted to work in a schedule. Try this rant with your employer and see if "The Boss" is spares your butt from being canned.

ICSTOR isn't a struggling grad student whose side project made it this big. May be he was struggling when he began, definitely not in 2018! So when a person makes decent money off his artwork, even if it is for a porn game, there's some amount of professionalism expected, at least by the ones who are his sincere patrons. As someone stated above, $40k is twice the normal income someone normally earns in Europe and I can vouch for that as well.


As I pointed repeatedly, there are many devs/artists teams that have much fewer patrons. Case in point -- NLT has close to 2600 patrons compared to ICSTOR's 6873, yet NLT delivers consistently in a 3 week cycle, for over 2 years with all updates having 40 - 50 mins of gameplay including true,non-repeating animations.

So calm your tits and instead of defending what's wrong, be bold to call out on the mess that it is.

P.S -- And just like A-holes that everyone has, this is my opinion. Instead of picking up on me, better focus on the argument.

Looks like I have to repeat my earlier post as some people still don't get it.

So what's your point? Icstor has to do and work exactly like NLT? It's his game. He's allowed to work as fast or as slow as he wants. He's allowed to live his life focusing on the game 24/7 or working on it in his spare time. It's his choice. Anybody not supporting him on his website has ZERO reason to bitch, whine or moan about how late each update is since you're getting it for FREE. And even then no one is forcing anyone to support him. If you don't like his pace then move on. I am sick and tired of seeing one bitchy post after another day after day, week after week about how people want the updates to come out when THEY say so. As if the game's creator is required to work on their timetable as opposed to his own.

 

[Vordertur]

The problem with patreon is that it makes assholes like this guy see themselves as The Boss of the artists. And, like all capitalist bosses, they see their employees not as people, but as inanimate objects they can squeeze content out of, and they can always get just a little bit more by squeezing even harder. To a Boss, you'll always be a lazy slacker who should be doing more for them. No amount of performance will ever be satisfactory.

If ICSTOR came back and immediately dropped an update, they'd be bitching that he took a break in the first place. If he dropped another update with 1000 renders the very next week, they'd be bitching "Well why can't you do that every day?" If he somehow started dropping an update like that every day, they'd bitch "Well if you weren't so LAZY you could do it twice a day!"

Here's the thing: you're arguing that none of us "know what kind of hardships artists have to go through." Perhaps we don't. But I'd argue that most of us ARE familiar with working for a living. Now you want to say "This man is producing art. Art should be free of normal, mundane constraints." As if art is something "special." And it is, in a way.

But then you go on to say that since he's making a living off the income he gets from this, that we should cut him some slack.

You can't have it both ways. Either art is done for art's sake, in which case, by all means, go to it. But if you want to claim that he's using this as a primary source of income, then how is it in any way fair that he doesn't have any constraints put on him to actually produce something?

If I go volunteer at a soup kitchen or something because I feel it's a morally just thing to do and I gain some personal growth out of the experience, that's all well and good. I shouldn't expect to be paid for my efforts. But if I go to my actual job and then say "I need money to live but I don't want people to demand I actually finish any of the tasks I've been assigned," that... isn't going to fly, is it?

Again, let me for the record state that yes, there are plenty of entitled babies whining and that their demands are unreasonable. But to say that anyone, anywhere, for any reason must be in the wrong just because they're expecting actual work to be done, and to be able to see tangible results out of the process, that's hardly fair. It's arguably even disingenuous.

 

[Microtom]

Icstors certainly makes way too much money for what he creates, but his value doesn't depends on both on how we value his stuff and how many people went to buy into into it. Currently, people are starved of good porn game content, there's not enough supply of quality, so that's why Icstors earns a lot. It's a good thing, because it motivates people to create similar and/or better content.

So there really shouldn't be anyone complaining. We should rather rejoice ourselves, because the future is bright for porn games.

 

[Augustine、]

Estimated date for the next update?

95%-2019.08.29

testing-2019.09.06

release-2019.09.14

 

[DammitBird]

Its gonna happen in the next 2 weeks

 

[dickless_hobo]

95%-2019.08.29

testing-2019.09.06

release-2019.09.14

Did ICSTOR say that on patreon or are we just throwing random dates now?

 

[N7's Slut]

Did ICSTOR say that on patreon or are we just throwing random dates now?

Its random date guessing

 

[Oriandu]

gone noew
stay strong pepe

I'm sorry, I don't speak internet weirdo.

 

[Viressa]

Here's the thing: you're arguing that none of us "know what kind of hardships artists have to go through." Perhaps we don't. But I'd argue that most of us ARE familiar with working for a living. Now you want to say "This man is producing art. Art should be free of normal, mundane constraints." As if art is something "special." And it is, in a way.

But then you go on to say that since he's making a living off the income he gets from this, that we should cut him some slack.

You misunderstand: Art is not special, and he doesn't deserve extra slack because he's making a living off of his income. My position is that no one should have to work. In any reasonably-ordered society, the idea that we would let someone starve to death or die of preventable illness because they aren't "productive" enough would be an unthinkable impossibility. In light of this, criticizing someone because they're not producing fast enough is absurd.

We of course, live in a capitalist society where you either get enough money to live, or you die. So I don't fault any artist for trying to get money out of their work, so long as they don't resort to abusive, exploitative tactics to do so. Far as I know, ICSTOR produces all of his images himself and isn't running some sort of sweatshop where emaciated orphans spend 20 hours a day posing 3D models.

Which means the only people he could possibly be exploiting and abusing are his patrons. Patreon is not kickstarter: When you support someone on Patreon, you are not giving them money in exchange for a promised product delivered by a promised date. (And even on kickstarter, it's only exploitative if you take the money and run and don't even intend to produce anything at all: A project falling apart due to internal creative differences, or due to going over budget, is incompetence, but not necessarily abuse.) You are giving them money to support them in doing whatever it is they decide to do. If you don't like what they're doing with your money, then... stop giving it to them. And if you aren't giving them money, then... what do you possibly have to complain about?

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Pretty much this.
The amount of people who fail to understand (or simply don't care) how patreon works around here before running their mouths is absurd.