VN Ren'Py My Husband's Boss [Ch.2] [SC Stories]

[DarkArchon]

I tried to hint at this earlier, but I don't think getting defensive about Vivian and making her the Holy Mary or a Lioness is working against the faction "She's a whore and we are disappointed". Personally I think it's equally tribal.

I have a different take on Vivian than either of these positions.

I look at her like she is a terrible wife who lied to and betrayed her husband. I don't think she was terrible prior to Christian, but she was not a great wife either in light of how disrespectful she was to her husband. I also look at her as a woman who is being abused and degraded by her lover. I think she is both a victimizer, in her many betrayals of Hutch, but also a victim, being abused, humiliated, and degraded by Christian. I don't see any evidence that she was a slut before she met Hutch, or that she cheated on Hutch prior to Christian. These are possibilities, but I don't see enough evidence to support this yet. I think the author has made it clear that Vivian always had the POTENTIAL to be a slut or cheat on Hutch. Her numerous flaws, including her insecurities, overestimation of her abilities, and unhealthy need for validation (particularly from males) created the potential. The situation with Christian just brought these things out. As I wrote in an earlier post, Christian is also using her guilt over cheating on Hutch to get her to subject herself to humiliation and degradation. Her lies and betrayals make me angry at her, but her allowing herself to be abused and convincing herself that Christian's degrading her is a good thing makes me pity her. Vivian's relationship with Christian is like an abused wife with her abusive husband. They sometimes tell themselves that they deserve the abuse, or they brought the abuse on themselves. That is what Christian is telling Vivan about the situation with Mr. Reeves, and even the sitation where he threw her out of the car naked. I think Vivian decent could be the darker ending the author was referring to. Also, abused people, because they are constantly streesed out out, can flip out on anyone. This is where the outbursts from Vivian towards Hutch and Christian came from. This is why I think it is possible that Vivian might take Christian out (possible, not certain). A real life example is the true story that the TV movie, "The Burning Bed" was based on.

 

[happy_cat]

Maybe Vi is discovering what all the incels are saying - that she can use her ass to manipulate men (Christian, investors) - and that gives her power. She stops being a material and becomes a creator. We will see in the next installments. The story has no equal in its category (or even - stories for adult and mature readers)

I think you got it wrong there. It is her that is manipulated. Christian nor the investors give a shit about her, they just want their pleasure .I'm not even sure if Hutch gives about her anymore. But it is true that we'll have to wait for further updates.

 

[Funcle]

I have a different take on Vivian than either of these positions.

I look at her like she is a terrible wife who lied to and betrayed her husband. I don't think she was terrible prior to Christian, but she was not a great wife either in light of how disrespectful she was to her husband. I also look at her as a woman who is being abused and degraded by her lover. I think she is both a victimizer, in her many betrayals of Hutch, but also a victim, being abused, humiliated, and degraded by Christian. I don't see any evidence that she was a slut before she met Hutch, or that she cheated on Hutch prior to Christian. These are possibilities, but I don't see enough evidence to support this yet. I think the author has made it clear that Vivian always had the POTENTIAL to be a slut or cheat on Hutch. Her numerous flaws, including her insecurities, overestimation of her abilities, and unhealthy need for validation (particularly from males) created the potential. The situation with Christian just brought these things out. As I wrote in an earlier post, Christian is also using her guilt over cheating on Hutch to get her to subject herself to humiliation and degradation. Her lies and betrayals make me angry at her, but her allowing herself to be abused and convincing herself that Christian's degrading her is a good thing makes me pity her. Vivian's relationship with Christian is like an abused wife with her abusive husband. They sometimes tell themselves that they deserve the abuse, or they brought the abuse on themselves. That is what Christian is telling Vivan about the situation with Mr. Reeves, and even the sitation where he threw her out of the car naked. I think Vivian decent could be the darker ending the author was referring to. Also, abused people, because they are constantly streesed out out, can flip out on anyone. This is where the outbursts from Vivian towards Hutch and Christian came from. This is why I think it is possible that Vivian might take Christian out (possible, not certain). A real life example is the true story that the TV movie, "The Burning Bed" was based on.

Wow so Vivian is Francine.Francine a wife that was abused for years by her husband versus a slut that was happily married with a nice family.Now she is the victim?She allowed to be the victim.Why did she went to the dinner?Why did she wear Christian gift dress?And are a lot of examples.
Don`t try to find excuses.Everything bad is on her.We will see in the next chapters if theres something there to change our minds.

 

[Dealbreaker]

her insecurities, overestimation of her abilities, and unhealthy need for validation

These three are also my main points, the two first showing themselves already mainly in ch 1 the latter in ch 2. Interestingly this is a view which emphatically (speaking for myself at least) doesn't put sexual problems and urges at the center of her personality - whereas both competing narratives which dominate the thread at the moment are both defining Vivian by her sexuality, i.e. her sexual morals and her alleged sexual deficits: The slut/whore narrative (I'm not against calling her a whore at this point technically, but that's not important) claims there is a deeply rooted unsupressable character trait of that kind which breaks through no matter what. The unsatisfied housewife finally takes what she needs-narrative also lets her sexual history write her narrative and determine the fate of her relationship, just gives it a positiv spin: what is allegedly inevitable with the whore is deemed necessary for her journey here.

I hadn't thought before about what you say about the guilt-humiliation connection, very valid - that deserves certainly some follow ups.

 

[Funcle]

her insecurities, overestimation of her abilities, and unhealthy need for validation

You described 90% of the 40+ years old modern woman.
After these 2 chapters i can say SC was right Vivian is not an interesting character.
Everything she do is for herself,what she want and what she needs.The rest fuckem.

 

[noahsombrero]

I have a different take on Vivian than either of these positions.

I look at her like she is a terrible wife who lied to and betrayed her husband. I don't think she was terrible prior to Christian, but she was not a great wife either in light of how disrespectful she was to her husband. I also look at her as a woman who is being abused and degraded by her lover. I think she is both a victimizer, in her many betrayals of Hutch, but also a victim, being abused, humiliated, and degraded by Christian. I don't see any evidence that she was a slut before she met Hutch, or that she cheated on Hutch prior to Christian. These are possibilities, but I don't see enough evidence to support this yet. I think the author has made it clear that Vivian always had the POTENTIAL to be a slut or cheat on Hutch. Her numerous flaws, including her insecurities, overestimation of her abilities, and unhealthy need for validation (particularly from males) created the potential. The situation with Christian just brought these things out. As I wrote in an earlier post, Christian is also using her guilt over cheating on Hutch to get her to subject herself to humiliation and degradation. Her lies and betrayals make me angry at her, but her allowing herself to be abused and convincing herself that Christian's degrading her is a good thing makes me pity her. Vivian's relationship with Christian is like an abused wife with her abusive husband. They sometimes tell themselves that they deserve the abuse, or they brought the abuse on themselves. That is what Christian is telling Vivan about the situation with Mr. Reeves, and even the sitation where he threw her out of the car naked. I think Vivian decent could be the darker ending the author was referring to. Also, abused people, because they are constantly streesed out out, can flip out on anyone. This is where the outbursts from Vivian towards Hutch and Christian came from. This is why I think it is possible that Vivian might take Christian out (possible, not certain). A real life example is the true story that the TV movie, "The Burning Bed" was based on.

I don't think this kind of ending will be necessary for her. She is learning to tell him what he wants to hear. In fact you could say that the whole final scene of act 2 is about her doing that, and in the end some things were said that point that way. The irony is that boss probably thought he was the one doing the jive up until those last few moments.

Advance pics on patreon suggest that husband and wife will find a way to reconcile. They could very well, for instance, take all that huge money they are getting and get out of dodge.

DPK wrote the example of this format that made his reputation for him. Acting Lessons. Give people all the degradation and corruption and filth they can stand, and then since there is no way to tack a decent ending on that, simply have a big house fire and burn it all down. A happy couple ending for this game probably won't do that for sc. But if you are actually thinking of making a point with all this sc, go for it.

 

[DarkArchon]

Wow so Vivian is Francine.Francine a wife that was abused for years by her husband versus a slut that was happily married with a nice family.Now she is the victim?She allowed to be the victim.Why did she went to the dinner?Why did she wear Christian gift dress?And are a lot of examples.
Don`t try to find excuses.Everything bad is on her.We will see in the next chapters if theres something there to change our minds.

What are you talking about? It is clear when I refer to her as an abused wife I am referring to her relationship with Christian not Hutch. I know Christian isn't her husband, but I use the battered wife example because it is one people can relate to. Also, those of us who are psychologically adults, and have some life experience, know, that a person can be a victim and victimizer at the same time. We also know that just because a person chose to enter into an abusive relationship, Vivian with Christian, that doesn't mean they are not still a victim. It is clear from my numerous posts that I blame Vivian for her lies and betrayals. That does not negate the fact that Christian abuses her. If she did not cheat on Hutch would she be being abused? Of course not. She put herself into the situation by cheating on Hutch, but at the same time she has allowed herself to be humiliated and degraded. Not all cheating wives allow themselves to be degraded and humiliated by the lovers. Vivian has done this. By the way, the adults in the forum will understand what I wrote, even if some of them don't agree with it.

 

[packard1928]

I think in the final scene with Vivian and Christian she realizes the he is physocotic. The manner that he man handled her , caled her his property , that he owns her. I think she realized she has to get out from under him. That also is a reason to say... I have to go home to Hutch. I think she will do that and regroup on what to do with him... and maybe how. ( just my thought... maybe wrong )

 

[noahsombrero]

Not all cheating wives allow themselves to be degraded and humiliated by the lovers. Vivian has done this. By the way, the adults in the forum will understand what I wrote, even if some of them don't agree with it.

Sure you describe a common situation. I don't think it applies.

Boss and wife are not lovers. It is not necessary to force arousal on a lover, and they don't call you asshole.

Wife might very well have the perspective to not consider herself degraded and humiliated. She was making choices and getting desired results, even though she might have wished to not pay such a high price.

That Up until the bonus at the delivery of the contract. This could very well have changed things for her. And her actions going forward will likely reflect that.

 

[noahsombrero]

I think in the final scene with Vivian and Christian she realizes the he is physocotic. The manner that he man handled her , caled her his property , that he owns her. I think she realized she has to get out from under him. That also is a reason to say... I have to go home to Hutch. I think she will do that and regroup on what to do with him... and maybe how. ( just my thought... maybe wrong )

Yes something like that likely.

 

[Hattyrulz]

Sure you describe a common situation. I don't think it applies.

Boss and wife are not lovers. It is not necessary to force arousal on a lover, and they don't call you asshole.

Wife might very well have the perspective to not consider herself degraded and humiliated. She was making choices and getting desired results, even though she might have wished to not pay such a high price.

That Up until the bonus at the delivery of the contract. This could very well have changed things for her. And her actions going forward will likely reflect that.

Reading through all the post about members defending vivians actions and those against it, it's clear that all of us are missing what SC Stories wants to say about the characters in his vn.

the dev did say he intentionally left gaps in the story for people to makeup their own views about the characters. he clearly stated what he thought about vivian and hutch as characters. which being vivian characters is not complex to interpret or understand and that hutch doesn't get a inner monologue contrary to vivian's which is shoved in the reader's face at every situation possible.

we as readers must also considers the viewpoints of the characters. we are getting both sides of the story. hutch only know what he seen, that is vivian desire for Christian from the driveway "sex show" and the toilet scene and even the all night fest at Christian's house. vivian on the other hand has more screen time and more interactions which make the readers get a clearer understanding of her behaviour/character/mindset/thought process(whatever you want to use) in comparison to hutch. one having an inner monologue and the other not having any is clear indication that the dev is directing it so as to make a point, which we as readers have still yet to grasp(for now).

i say this again. as i did a few times in my previous posts as well... the way the dev develops vivian in chapter 2 is quite clear. she is transitioned from acting as a good wife(or some would argue she was) to whore/slut/hooker/woman of the streets/ or whatever label is prefered.

having said that there is different ways to look at it and has been posted by others in this thread. to them i ask.... are you sticking with the facts present in the story or are your mixing in the logic of real life.

and to those who are adamant about sticking with the devs narrative of vivian in chapter 2 as woman with loose will/morals, i ask aren't you relating her behaviour to real life when you should be sticking to the facts presented to you. yes the rape scene and the following christian scene for some can be scene as vivian acting as the office whore to get the contract signed. and is very transactional/emotional based on how the reader views it.

i think we should wait for the end of next chapter to see the facts of the story presented to us by SC Stories. which might again change our view of the characters we so love to hate.

i for one am in the later group in the end.

PS: forgot to address the quote. it was referred to in an older post about vivians gradual change from reluctance to lust to love. in chapter 1 she was reluctant. in chapter 2 she was lusting for christian(as shown from the events and thoughts and the monologues) and willing to do anything to have sex with him. and for now we are seeing signs of love at the end of chapter 2. and which most will love to hate on vivian loving christian but never know it might happen.

 

[happy_cat]

I think in the final scene with Vivian and Christian she realizes the he is physocotic. The manner that he man handled her , caled her his property , that he owns her. I think she realized she has to get out from under him. That also is a reason to say... I have to go home to Hutch. I think she will do that and regroup on what to do with him... and maybe how. ( just my thought... maybe wrong )

To be honnest I think she likes to be man handled etc. She knows he manipulates her (check the very last part of the VN) and that could lead to a change but future will tell.

 

[DarkArchon]

Sure you describe a common situation. I don't think it applies.

Boss and wife are not lovers. It is not necessary to force arousal on a lover, and they don't call you asshole.

Wife might very well have the perspective to not consider herself degraded and humiliated. She was making choices and getting desired results, even though she might have wished to not pay such a high price.

That Up until the bonus at the delivery of the contract. This could very well have changed things for her. And her actions going forward will likely reflect that.

I am going to take what you said here at face value and reply accordingly.

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[noahsombrero]

PS: forgot to address the quote. it was referred to in an older post about vivians gradual change from reluctance to lust to love. in chapter 1 she was reluctant. in chapter 2 she was lusting for christian(as shown from the events and thoughts and the monologues) and willing to do anything to have sex with him. and for now we are seeing signs of love at the end of chapter 2. and which most will love to hate on vivian loving christian but never know it might happen.

This is not my reading of the final scene at all. I do not see her as lusting for boss and willing to do anything to have sex with him. In fact, up until the end of part 2 where she says she is with him and won't keep pretending she isn't, in every instance, boss needed to force arousal on her. I don't think you are noticing the force of her anger at the contract bonus event. I sense she feels forced to do something about it because boss does not really take seriously how she feels.

She defends husband to boss and will not see boss belittle him.

A narcissist does not ask "why do I hate myself?", would not feel troubled to do the things she is doing. I think the time she spent with the swinging couple gave her a helpful insightful description of herself. This is more likely a description of what sc thinks about her, otherwise he would not provide us with it.

Vivian, she seems to embody a narcissistic, manipulative archetype that's often sytimaic of modern relationship dysfunction. From that perspective, she can be seen as someone who:

I think this is a very unsympathetic almost incel way of seeing her.

 

[Senor Smut]

I feel like Vivian is basically Walter White from Breaking Bad. She is, at heart, a terrible, selfish person who has spent her life lying to herself about her own nature. She's pretended to be a good homemaker, a loving wife, a caring mother, but in reality she's a soulless monster who doesn't give a rat's ass who she hurts. Just like it took Walter some time to embrace the fact that he was a villain, it's taken Vivian some time to accept the fact that she doesn't actually care about all the people she's claimed to care about. She cares about herself, and that's literally all. She's not likeable in any way, she's absolutely the opposite of sympathetic, but she is compelling and realistic. And love her or hate her, how many H-games can claim to have created a character that's both compelling and realistic (I can count on one finger the number of H-games I've played that have pulled off that trick, and that finger would be called Good Girl Gone Bad).

I won't be playing future chapters for the same reason I bailed on Breaking Bad in the first season and skipped almost all "Golden Age of Television" shows: watching terrible people do terrible things to good people exacerbates my already-dangerous levels of major depression. But I salute the Dev for trying to do something bold and different -- NTR games and H-games in general need more devs of vision and courage.

 

[noahsombrero]

Sawyer would probably physically go after Christian in this situation, and that is no exaggeration. If the neighbors saw it, they would probably call the police. They may not have seen it since it happened late at night. If this happened in broad daylight, they would almost certainly have called the police.

I think "if you don't like it...then I am done with you." "say it"

are reasonable ways for a man to act in that situation. He should have said it a long time ago instead of forcing arousal on her.

Lovers do not need to have arousal forced on one partner, and do not repeatedly call a partner an asshole.

And, again, the above scene would not have happened if she were willing to do anything to have sex with him in part 2. She would simply have the sex.

At the end of part two, boss finally gets it:

"I know-I know...husband...noble sacrifice...I get it." He does get it, his face shows it. He has not been able to make
her fall in love with him as he wished. I wonder what he will do about that.


I think, what I am seeing here in some posts is why women are so reluctant to press charges for rape. The unsympathetic cross examination is simply not worth it.

 

[JoeBlogs]

Is it weird that i had so much to say regarding the first chapter, and yet with this chapter, I don't have much to say.
She is a hoe, going down Hoe Street to Hoe Town. Her personality is becoming less and less interesting, and more cliche.

Still is a good game, and I'm looking forward to chapter Hutch.

 

[Senor Smut]

I think, what I am seeing here in some posts is why women are so reluctant to press charges for rape. The unsympathetic cross examination is simply not worth it.

Bruh...whut?

Vivian went to the backyard with Christian on the first night knowing she was going to get fucked. She went willingly, and then spent the whole night fucking Christian. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that a guy IN THE NEXT ROOM would have heard her ruckus, but she did it anyway. Every subsequent time -- every single one -- she had the option to not have sex with whomever, but she chose to have sex. She chose.

There's a rule in watching magicians: watch the hands, not the mouth. The mouth says whatever it wants, but actions don't lie. And people who really don't want to do something that they know will destroy someone the love...don't do it. Just, period, they don't do it. They eat the consequences, no matter how bad they are, rather than inflict egregious, gratuitous suffering on the people they care about. Sure, we had a lot of internal monologue about how guilty she felt, but it never delayed her for even a second in causing Hutch more pain. The only possible conclusions are that she never actually cared about him, or at least she never cared about him more than her own personal gratification.

Of all the sex scenes in the game, the only one that might conceivably be called coercive is the one in the hotel near the end of Chapter 2 -- you know, the one where she revealed herself to be a hateful cunt toward the husband whose heart she'd spent both chapters carving out. Even that scene, she absolutely could have chosen to leave. She didn't because she liked it, as she admitted in the last scene.

There is no doubt Christian is an utter sociopath: he manipulates people solely for the satisfaction of seeing them destroy themselves for him. But just because Christian is a sociopath doesn't mean that Vivian is is victim or is innocent; she's a willing partner in Christian's evil actions toward Hutch. She tells Christian he's an asshole, tells him not to humiliate her husband, and then gleefully fucks him and humiliates her husband herself. Forget what she says -- she hasn't taken a sympathetic action in the entire game.

Oh, and BTW, you know a game is well written when it can evoke this kind of passionate discussion.

 

[noahsombrero]

Oh, and BTW, you know a game is well written when it can evoke this kind of passionate discussion.

Granted.

There is the women's bathroom scene where husband in there on the crapper, wife comes in and boss follows. He starts his arousal routine and she resists for a while. Husband is about to come to her aid, but he sees she is giving in. What this means for me is that husband is not the wuss that we tend to take him for. But if she gives in he won't try to save her.

It also also means that wife, like many women, is not up to the job of fighting boss off. This does not make her a whore, or a manipulator, or a willing partner. Husband should have known that. But we are all limited by what we don't know, and he is right, if she were a willing partner, there is no sense in trying to save her. He judges her the same as many here do.

 

[Senor Smut]

Granted.

There is the women's bathroom scene where husband in there on the crapper, wife comes in and boss follows. He starts his arousal routine and she resists for a while. Husband is about to come to her aid, but he sees she is giving in. What this means for me is that husband is not the wuss that we tend to take him for. But if she gives in he won't try to save her.

It also also means that wife, like many women, is not up to the job of fighting boss off. This does not make her a whore, or a manipulator, or a willing partner. Husband should have known that. But we are all limited by what we don't know, and he is right, if she were a willing partner, there is no sense in trying to save her. He judges her the same as many here do.

Did you play through the end of Chapter 2? Because she admits she's a VERY willing partner and has been all along.