VN Ren'Py Nephilim [v0.4.3] [BuuPlays]

[Maviarab]

*sighs*/..ok..I gotta comment:

Alright, now i've played the update and read the dialigue, Eliza does seem pretty cut up about what happened. I think what a lot of people are missing (and I pray those people never have the shit spin out on then, as they would be utterly lost, so maybe that's why they don't understand) is that the MC is very prgmatic at times. Very. Also very logical when he needs to be.

So, Eliza just killed a woman...not good. He understands that, but what are you going to do right at the moment? Scream? Shout? Lose your shit? Chew her ass off? What's happened has happened, ain't nothing changing that fact. You need to deal with things with a clear, rational head...which is exactly what he did. He doesn't just forgive her, he just states facts. No problem with any of that whatsoever, otehr than, he should never have gone to sleep. His only fault.

Now, after the debacle of Pirate Cove and Daddy Blackbeard...a possesive virgin pirate captain *rolls eyes*...Eliza apparently being forced to become a vampire (hard lol)...is it just me that the thing that has annoyed me most so far after all these updates...

Is our MC has no fucking clue how you actually test how a sword is balanced? Sorry, but with such a lore heavy story (with so much mythology and the era/setting that we are in), that is a fault from the dev I cannot forgive...

 

[BGRW2020]

Do you the Dev really think the last words of a man should be ignored - find and protect my daughter - now you made her a monster (Vampire) to fix her back without exhausting all the possible relics out there that could have helped her
Love your story but hate the result of making Eliza a Vamp.

 

[Sin_Mechero]

*sighs*/..ok..I gotta comment:

Alright, now i've played the update and read the dialigue, Eliza does seem pretty cut up about what happened. I think what a lot of people are missing (and I pray those people never have the shit spin out on then, as they would be utterly lost, so maybe that's why they don't understand) is that the MC is very prgmatic at times. Very. Also very logical when he needs to be.

So, Eliza just killed a woman...not good. He understands that, but what are you going to do right at the moment? Scream? Shout? Lose your shit? Chew her ass off? What's happened has happened, ain't nothing changing that fact. You need to deal with things with a clear, rational head...which is exactly what he did. He doesn't just forgive her, he just states facts. No problem with any of that whatsoever, otehr than, he should never have gone to sleep. His only fault.

Now, after the debacle of Pirate Cove and Daddy Blackbeard...a possesive virgin pirate captain *rolls eyes*...Eliza apparently being forced to become a vampire (hard lol)...is it just me that the thing that has annoyed me most so far after all these updates...

Is our MC has no fucking clue how you actually test how a sword is balanced? Sorry, but with such a lore heavy story (with so much mythology and the era/setting that we are in), that is a fault from the dev I cannot forgive...

I would have swapped her with Luna's mother and let her rot in the dungeons. No matter how sorry she is, she's still a murderer.
It seems to me that blaming the mc for going to sleep, is like if a drunkard takes the car and runs over someone and you blame the waiter for it. The only one responsible is her (we are not her babysitter) and even more so when I am not even following her path.

 

[Maviarab]

I would have swapped her with Luna's mother and let her rot in the dungeons. No matter how sorry she is, she's still a murderer.
It seems to me that blaming the mc for going to sleep, is like if a drunkard takes the car and runs over someone and you blame the waiter for it. The only one responsible is her (we are not her babysitter) and even more so when I am not even following her path.

The waiter/barman/Establishment owner very much can blamed in law btw...if they allow someone they know to be intoxicated to leave and get in a car.

Just to educate you

 

[Sin_Mechero]

The waiter/barman/Establishment owner very much can blamed in law btw...if they allow someone they know to be intoxicated to leave and get in a car.

Just to educate you

Only if the waiter see him getting into the car and he doesn't avoid it, but really like any other citizen. (Because you are witnessing a crime). I mean by serving him drinks. He doesn't have to know if you have come by car or on foot, it's not his responsibility.

 

[BGRW2020]

I would have swapped her with Luna's mother and let her rot in the dungeons. No matter how sorry she is, she's still a murderer.
It seems to me that blaming the mc for going to sleep, is like if a drunkard takes the car and runs over someone and you blame the waiter for it. The only one responsible is her (we are not her babysitter) and even more so when I am not even following her path.

yes she is but now a vamp ire murderer - I certainly hope she does not loose her personality and the MC can keep her from wholesale blood lust. I hope the Dev has a real reason to ruin such a sweet girl with this ridiculous vampire thing - maybe he can find a way to make her human again

 

[Sin_Mechero]

yes she is but now a vamp ire murderer - I certainly hope she does not loose her personality and the MC can keep her from wholesale blood lust. I hope the Dev has a real reason to ruin such a sweet girl with this ridiculous vampire thing - maybe he can find a way to make her human again

I imagine that gradually she will learn to control herself.
But I doubt she'll ever be human again, as the developer's intention is to make her more powerful so she can accompany him on journeys.

 

[BGRW2020]

I imagine that gradually she will learn to control herself.
But I doubt she'll ever be human again, as the developer's intention is to make her more powerful so she can accompany him on journeys.

The Dev could have come up with a more reasonable way to have her use magic etc... to be more powerful than a blood sucker which destroys her - this conversion has actually destroyed the love story completely as I'm not sure who to now take as my girl
I cannot see myself having feelings for a blood sucker and actually now would leave her completely and maybe go back to Alice
and I don't know how I would stay on the light path anymore - we were not given any real choice whether to give her the stupid chalice or not - it sucks

 

[BGRW2020]

The waiter/barman/Establishment owner very much can blamed in law btw...if they allow someone they know to be intoxicated to leave and get in a car.

Just to educate you

very true - but so is the person, they are all guilty

 

[Sin_Mechero]

The Dev could have come up with a more reasonable way to have her use magic etc... to be more powerful than a blood sucker which destroys her - this conversion has actually destroyed the love story completely as I'm not sure who to now take as my girl
I cannot see myself having feelings for a blood sucker and actually now would leave her completely and maybe go back to Alice
and I don't know how I would stay on the light path anymore - we were not given any real choice whether to give her the stupid chalice or not - it sucks

I feel the same as you, in the dark path I would understand it but not in the light path, you spend all the time forgiving people and the first thing Eliza does is kill someone without any option to avoid it.
I would also see it fine if she had been a vampire from the beginning and you choose whether you love her or not, but I don't think it's right to change a character in the middle of the story.
I've gone from doing only Eliza path to all but her. I'm not looking for any serious relationship with any of them, as you don't know when another Li will betray you or be changed again.

 

[Tremonia]

The waiter/barman/Establishment owner very much can blamed in law btw...if they allow someone they know to be intoxicated to leave and get in a car.

To be fair, this is not in many countries a law. In the most european countries the law doesn't cares about this, while in UK you can go to prison if something happens. So there's a wide spread of laws for such cases.

 

[Dessolos]

I would have swapped her with Luna's mother and let her rot in the dungeons. No matter how sorry she is, she's still a murderer.

Maybe my point of view is a bit skewed when it comes to murder from a vampire cause of TV or w/e. But I honestly expected it as it's a vampire cliche that I see in most vampire shows ive watched over the years. So to me I don't think she need to be locked away over 1 murder , when it wasn't intentional and she is still learning her powers. Especially from a day 1 vampire. At least from my point of view it wasn't intentional. Now I can see locking her up till she learns to control her self and teaching her how to feed properly in a controlled environment.

Now if she should be forgiven well that is up to you. Personally I am on the forgive Eliza side of things since it wasn't intentional as long as she keeps being her normal self and helps people in need as long as she is alive and able. Now if she keeps losing control or becomes a ripper just kills without a care in the world. That's when id have to switch to Team Alice cause I still very much love this game but at that point I don't her character would be recoverable even if id probably still secretly like her as I think be impossible for me to hate her character entirely. As I have to many good memories of the journey I had with Eliza up until now and it's one of the reasons this is a game I put on my replay list.

To me what the bigger issue is it feels like the dev lost touch with showing emotional scenes. Cause ive seen him do better in the past. But It seems lately any scene that should of had more emotional to it is over or brushed off to quickly. Like with Eliza feeling bad cause her dialogue shows she clearly does feel guilty on the rooftop and at training but the scenes doesn't.

 

[Maviarab]

Maybe my point of view is a bit skewed when it comes to murder from a vampire cause of TV or w/e. But I honestly expected it as it's a vampire cliche that I see in most vampire shows ive watched over the years. So to me I don't think she need to be locked away over 1 murder , when it wasn't intentional and she is still learning her powers. Especially from a day 1 vampire. At least from my point of view it wasn't intentional. Now I can see locking her up till she learns to control her self and teaching her how to feed properly in a controlled environment.

Now if she should be forgiven well that is up to you. Personally I am on the forgive Eliza side of things since it wasn't intentional as long as she keeps being her normal self and helps people in need as long as she is alive and able. Now if she keeps losing control or becomes a ripper just kills without a care in the world. That's when id have to switch to Team Alice cause I still very much love this game but at that point I don't her character would be recoverable even if id probably still secretly like her as I think be impossible for me to hate her character entirely. As I have to many good memories of the journey I had with Eliza up until now and it's one of the reasons this is a game I put on my replay list.

To me what the bigger issue is it feels like the dev lost touch with showing emotional scenes. Cause ive seen him do better in the past. But It seems lately any scene that should of had more emotional to it is over or brushed off to quickly. Like with Eliza feeling bad cause her dialogue shows she clearly does feel guilty on the rooftop and at training but the scenes doesn't.

Pretty much, unless you're utterly clueless, or grew up with lovely dovey sparklies....vampires kill people. Simple as that. if it was going to be an issue, people should have just dropped the VN after the previous update.

What should have happened, is that given the MC, actually states...that he didn't sleep so close to her...Eliza should have called him out on not watching over her. One line, is all it would have taken to completely change the context of the rooftop conversation.

However, for those still pissed at her, the MC STATES:

mc "I didn’t want to disturb you. I wasn’t sure how the transition works…"

So maybe stay awake then dumbass...you know...just in case...becasue...you don't know what will happen? Maybe just me perhaps??? *shrugs*

That is, solely and purely on the MC and not Eliza. She went to sleep, trusting the MC would keep her safe. He failed in that (and knew when she awoke, her emotions would be tenfold. He knew this). Undeniably, no matter how many here want to deny it. She was always going to kill someone, always, you could write that plot blindfolded 20 years ago..cos vampires kill folk (even the nice ones). I do however personally, blame bad writing for how it occurred, I really don't think the devs intent came across quite how he originally intended it to in his head. That is a fault of no one except himself.

 

[Sin_Mechero]

Maybe my point of view is a bit skewed when it comes to murder from a vampire cause of TV or w/e. But I honestly expected it as it's a vampire cliche that I see in most vampire shows ive watched over the years. So to me I don't think she need to be locked away over 1 murder , when it wasn't intentional and she is still learning her powers. Especially from a day 1 vampire. At least from my point of view it wasn't intentional. Now I can see locking her up till she learns to control her self and teaching her how to feed properly in a controlled environment.

Now if she should be forgiven well that is up to you. Personally I am on the forgive Eliza side of things since it wasn't intentional as long as she keeps being her normal self and helps people in need as long as she is alive and able. Now if she keeps losing control or becomes a ripper just kills without a care in the world. That's when id have to switch to Team Alice cause I still very much love this game but at that point I don't her character would be recoverable even if id probably still secretly like her as I think be impossible for me to hate her character entirely. As I have to many good memories of the journey I had with Eliza up until now and it's one of the reasons this is a game I put on my replay list.

To me what the bigger issue is it feels like the dev lost touch with showing emotional scenes. Cause ive seen him do better in the past. But It seems lately any scene that should of had more emotional to it is over or brushed off to quickly. Like with Eliza feeling bad cause her dialogue shows she clearly does feel guilty on the rooftop and at training but the scenes doesn't.

I understand what you are saying, everyone sees things in a different way, and I think it's great that you are willing to forgive her.
For me, I'm playing the light path, I don't care if she kills 1 or 80, I consider it the same. As I said in the dark path I would understand it because the mc is the same.
As for being intentional, that's why I gave the example of the drunk, is it intentional? no, does it make him less guilty? neither.
You're right that it was expected, but there's no option to avoid it either.
On the last point, I agree with you,

 

[Maviarab]

I understand what you are saying, everyone sees things in a different way, and I think it's great that you are willing to forgive her.
For me, I'm playing the light path, I don't care if she kills 1 or 80, I consider it the same

I've been thinking more on this, and I've not seen a single person yet (unless missed it) comment on this (and your comment above perfectly sums up my thoughts):

Now, unless there is going to be convenient 'plot reasons'...the MC has effectively just killed Cassie (Luna's mother) and not a single damn person here has a problem with that. Why do you ask?

The only thing keeping Luna's mother alive was the sword. Which no longer exists. Or well, it does, but inside the MC where Luna can't get to it. The only thing keeping her alive...the...only...thing...

So, in order to not let Taron become more powerful, the MC has made Luna (and by extension her mother), entirely, 100% dependant on the MC breaking her out of prison and freeing her...and Luna knows nothing of this, as she went off to classes and to then find Alice. What happens when taron finds out Luna no longer has the sword? What happens if our intrepid hero's can't break the hex hmmmm? I'll tell you what happens....yet no one here that I've noticed, gives two flyings about that...

I actually wonder if the dev has the balls to kill Luna's mother off straight (or through bad choices, making the MC just as much of a murderer by default as the horrible, monstrous, terrible person that Eliza apparently now is) to force Luna into seeing what a complete murderous tryant Taron is so she joins our crusade. Or will there be a conveniant plot point to rescue her I wonder? Because right now...Luna's mom's fate isn't looking too peachy in my opinion....

And that will also...be 100%...on the MC's shoulders...no one else.

 

[ename144]

I've been thinking more on this, and I've not seen a single person yet (unless missed it) comment on this (and your comment above perfectly sums up my thoughts):

Now, unless there is going to be convenient 'plot reasons'...the MC has effectively just killed Cassie (Luna's mother) and not a single damn person here has a problem with that. Why do you ask?

The only thing keeping Luna's mother alive was the sword. Which no longer exists. Or well, it does, but inside the MC where Luna can't get to it. The only thing keeping her alive...the...only...thing...

So, in order to not let Taron become more powerful, the MC has made Luna (and by extension her mother), entirely, 100% dependant on the MC breaking her out of prison and freeing her...and Luna knows nothing of this, as she went off to classes and to then find Alice. What happens when taron finds out Luna no longer has the sword? What happens if our intrepid hero's can't break the hex hmmmm? I'll tell you what happens....yet no one here that I've noticed, gives two flyings about that...

I actually wonder if the dev has the balls to kill Luna's mother off straight (or through bad choices, making the MC just as much of a murderer by default as the horrible, monstrous, terrible person that Eliza apparently now is) to force Luna into seeing what a complete murderous tryant Taron is so she joins our crusade. Or will there be a conveniant plot point to rescue her I wonder? Because right now...Luna's mom's fate isn't looking too peachy in my opinion....

And that will also...be 100%...on the MC's shoulders...no one else.

That's not really a valid comparison because the MC had no reason to suspect that breaking the curse would also destroy the sword. Breaking the curse *could* have freed Cassie if the MC were willing to give Taron the sword and trusted him to keep his word - both poor assumptions IMHO, but the option would theoretically have been there if things got dire enough. It just turned out that the "sword" was actually an annoying, one-shot powerup and thus wouldn't be around as a bargaining chip later.

Plus, notably unlike the way he handled Eliza's transformation, the MC did actually set a backup plan in motion before monkeying with the sword (namely, to break the curse on Cassie so she could be rescued directly). He didn't exactly put a lot of effort into said plan, but he did have one so there's still a chance to save Cassie even with the Onyx snafu.

Having said that, I have little doubt the MC would consider Cassie an acceptable loss if Taron winds up killing her now. No sense crying over spilled milk now that all paths are dark, right?

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Pretty much, unless you're utterly clueless, or grew up with lovely dovey sparklies....vampires kill people. Simple as that. if it was going to be an issue, people should have just dropped the VN after the previous update.

What should have happened, is that given the MC, actually states...that he didn't sleep so close to her...Eliza should have called him out on not watching over her. One line, is all it would have taken to completely change the context of the rooftop conversation.

However, for those still pissed at her, the MC STATES:

mc "I didn’t want to disturb you. I wasn’t sure how the transition works…"

So maybe stay awake then dumbass...you know...just in case...becasue...you don't know what will happen? Maybe just me perhaps??? *shrugs*

That is, solely and purely on the MC and not Eliza. She went to sleep, trusting the MC would keep her safe. He failed in that (and knew when she awoke, her emotions would be tenfold. He knew this). Undeniably, no matter how many here want to deny it. She was always going to kill someone, always, you could write that plot blindfolded 20 years ago..cos vampires kill folk (even the nice ones). I do however personally, blame bad writing for how it occurred, I really don't think the devs intent came across quite how he originally intended it to in his head. That is a fault of no one except himself.

There was a lot of talk after the previous update about what this would mean. I was very concerned the way this would go and it went exactly where I thought it would. I'm not happy and after the love sick pirate, that will be it for me. I loved the Eliza character and I have no desire to see her character ruined. Even if she controls the bloodlust and becomes nice Eliza again, the horse has bolted. The damage is done.

I do agree the MC has become such a dumb ass. The whole story has soured for me. I'll take this thread of my watch list soon. I'm just enjoying the conversation at the moment.

 

[Dessolos]

There was a lot of talk after the previous update about what this would mean. I was very concerned the way this would go and it went exactly where I thought it would. I'm not happy and after the love sick pirate, that will be it for me. I loved the Eliza character and I have no desire to see her character ruined. Even if she controls the bloodlust and becomes nice Eliza again, the horse has bolted. The damage is done.

I do agree the MC has become such a dumb ass. The whole story has soured for me. I'll take this thread of my watch list soon. I'm just enjoying the conversation at the moment.

Not gonna lie I was a bit sad to see your review cause I knew it meant you will be dropping this one, as I do enjoy seeing your point of view / opinions in other threads. Seems like I got around to playing this game when it got to a point where it was to much for some people. Not gonna lie even tho I can see problems in the story after they been pointed out or otherwise , why people feel like enough is enough for them. Hell I even have a hard time accepting the changes to Eliza even tho I can for now just barley.

I'm not sure id ever be able to drop this truth be told no matter what happens. As the Journey till the pirate arc was such an memorable adventure I got so immersed into this game there were times I forgot it was AVN. Not many AVN's have even gave much such a feeling or hooked to me such a degree even ones in my top 10. ( Eliza does do alot of heavy lifting I admit) Which is why i'll probably end up replaying it a decent amount.

Just wanted to say that before you fully drop this game and dont look at the thread anymore, I thought you already did.

 

[lukas7533]

I gotta say, romance between MC and Eliza up until the injury is some of the best romance I´ve seen in AVNs. Like straight up top 3 if not higher.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I feel like its gonna change her way too much, but right now I can´t say that I noticed anything big.
Anyway for the rest of the cast, I think its working, characters, writing, music. The overall feel of the game is really good. Definitely gonna continue watching this project with interest and continue to support it

 

[Dessolos]

I gotta say, romance between MC and Eliza up until the injury is some of the best romance I´ve seen in AVNs. Like straight up top 3 if not higher.

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I feel like its gonna change her way too much, but right now I can´t say that I noticed anything big.
Anyway for the rest of the cast, I think its working, characters, writing, music. The overall feel of the game is really good. Definitely gonna continue watching this project with interest and continue to support it

yeah that's why I'm not abandoning ship even if I don't like the change to Eliza . Cause right now she feels like the same Eliza personality wise that made me love this game at least to me.