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VN Ren'Py Not Going Back [Ch.2.2] [Cicada]

4.10 star(s) 8 Votes

cicadaNGB

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Apr 28, 2023
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i can only speak for myself but for me, the fact you do not have a patreon (or subscribestar) contributes heavily to me not wanting to check your game for a while.

you may have your own consideration why you do not want to make a patreon, but i strongly recommend you open one even if not many people is subscribing.
Patreon to me (or subscribestar) is essentially wisdom of the crowd. I don't read reviews much cuz i don't want to get spoiled. The number of patreon members or how active the dev is on it contributes highly to me even checking the game in the first place

I happen to ran out of game to play and have a bit of a free time so I decided to check it. anw, food for thought

edit: https://f95zone.to/threads/not-going-back-ch-2-2-cicada.166812/page-26#post-14777637
I just read that.
You can do whatever you want, it's your patreon page. You don't have to stagger tier release or offer custom render or anything else like that
With how positive the reception has been since the launch of ch2, I am now pretty much definitely going to make a patreon alongside the release of ch3. I have no idea what benefits might be on it at this stage, but like you say there doesn't necessarily have to be tiered benefits - it's just that's the most common business model for these things, so I figured people would possibly expect/want rewards/perks like offered on other patreons.

I will say I don't personally find much correlation between patreon numbers and quality, though. It can be a good indictaion, sure, but generally I think that, for AVNs, popularity doesn't tend to equal quality a lot of the time. That's just personal opinion, though, and I wouldn't die on this hill either really. I do appreciate it being particularly useful if you want to avoid spoilers, because it's hard for recommendations to be spoiler free, so I understand your position too.

And then on your second comment, you are right that there are plenty of devs out there with long release cycles etc. and it's up to people whether they want to support that or not. It was just for me, in my situation, I felt disingenuous were I to first set up a patreon with just one chapter released, and now after taking so long to make ch2 (i now realize i basically said this already in the comment you linked, so apologies for repeating myself a bit). Anyway, for me, at least once ch3 is out people will have two dev cycles of knowledge (and three chapters of content) with which to decide whether or not they want to support. (even though I'm aware that I could just make one now and the situation is the functionally the same; people will decide whether they want to support or not. but it's just a personal preference at this point, where i'm not comfortable with it at this juncture)
 

cicadaNGB

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Apr 28, 2023
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Random question, do you plan on making a Discord server to post updates on current progress?
I haven't used discord since like 2020, and even then I didn't use it much. So it's not something I've considered, or have much experience with. That being said, I'm aware that a lot of devs use it and have their own servers(?) etc. so it's not something I would be against doing, but I'd be lying if I said I was in my immediate plans, just because I don't use it currently.
 

camube

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2022
1,352
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With how positive the reception has been since the launch of ch2, I am now pretty much definitely going to make a patreon alongside the release of ch3. I have no idea what benefits might be on it at this stage, but like you say there doesn't necessarily have to be tiered benefits - it's just that's the most common business model for these things, so I figured people would possibly expect/want rewards/perks like offered on other patreons.

I will say I don't personally find much correlation between patreon numbers and quality, though. It can be a good indictaion, sure, but generally I think that, for AVNs, popularity doesn't tend to equal quality a lot of the time. That's just personal opinion, though, and I wouldn't die on this hill either really. I do appreciate it being particularly useful if you want to avoid spoilers, because it's hard for recommendations to be spoiler free, so I understand your position too.

And then on your second comment, you are right that there are plenty of devs out there with long release cycles etc. and it's up to people whether they want to support that or not. It was just for me, in my situation, I felt disingenuous were I to first set up a patreon with just one chapter released, and now after taking so long to make ch2 (i now realize i basically said this already in the comment you linked, so apologies for repeating myself a bit). Anyway, for me, at least once ch3 is out people will have two dev cycles of knowledge (and three chapters of content) with which to decide whether or not they want to support. (even though I'm aware that I could just make one now and the situation is the functionally the same; people will decide whether they want to support or not. but it's just a personal preference at this point, where i'm not comfortable with it at this juncture)
A suggestion to think about. I think you should make it now or as soon as you're comfortable doing it but prior to Ch 3.

Patreon subscribers are sticky but their budget and their attention aren't unlimited. There are more and more new games (or new release of old games) available from now until your chapter 3 is out. The longer you go without patreon account, the higher the probability Person A already subscribed to some other devs and will not subscribed to you due to lack of $ or limited attention.

It may not even be because your game is lower quality than Game B and C that Person A already subscribed, it's moreso the combination of limited budget and habit. Some people do managed their patreon subscription actively but for the average person, I'm not so sure. If your game to Person A is their B-tier, the average person may just keep support to the B-tier game they already patron instead of switching to your game.

Going to Patreon, clicking settings, then membership, then view details, then "switch to another tier" or "cancel membership" is a lot of hassle. If Person A budget is $20 per month, they may not reduce support from one dev to then switch to you. If their budget doesn't increase, they might just stay idle.

Outside of your own level of comfortability, I see only downside for any dev to not just have patreon.
I've seen some dev nowadays that set up patreon before they even have initial release.

Not releasing patreon at the end of August right when your Chapter 2 was released is a mistake from my view.

Because the moment your update was released, once it reaches places like this site and other sites like this, that's the one singular moment when people would patron. People's attention is really limited.
Once some time has passed after your Ch 2 was release, your game update would have already get drowned by numerous other games that gets release that period and also drowned by alternative entertainment options that isn't AVNs that also got release that week.

Itch.io doesn't replace patreon. At least not for me. It's easy for me to pay for game on steam or patreon because on top of already remembering their layout, I can buy there with one click because I've used it in the past. This is not true for itchio. To pay for an itchio game for me, i need to click "pay with". And yet after clicking "pay with", i need to input an email, that's one obstacle. Say i put an email, i still need to type payment information after, that's two obstacles.
If I want to remove those two obstacles, registering for an itchio account may have eliminated those. But registering to a new site is an obstacle for many people, not just for me. I understand it isn't "hard" to register, but it's still an obstacle. People's attention are limited.

I will say I don't personally find much correlation between patreon numbers and quality, though.
High number of patrons does not equal quality. It just means people are sticking around. If people are sticking around, chances are the game continues to be developed. There's so many abandoned games but there's only so much time.
 
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AlexMpog

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Oct 17, 2022
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With how positive the reception has been since the launch of ch2, I am now pretty much definitely going to make a patreon alongside the release of ch3. I have no idea what benefits might be on it at this stage, but like you say there doesn't necessarily have to be tiered benefits - it's just that's the most common business model for these things, so I figured people would possibly expect/want rewards/perks like offered on other patreons.

I will say I don't personally find much correlation between patreon numbers and quality, though. It can be a good indictaion, sure, but generally I think that, for AVNs, popularity doesn't tend to equal quality a lot of the time. That's just personal opinion, though, and I wouldn't die on this hill either really. I do appreciate it being particularly useful if you want to avoid spoilers, because it's hard for recommendations to be spoiler free, so I understand your position too.

And then on your second comment, you are right that there are plenty of devs out there with long release cycles etc. and it's up to people whether they want to support that or not. It was just for me, in my situation, I felt disingenuous were I to first set up a patreon with just one chapter released, and now after taking so long to make ch2 (i now realize i basically said this already in the comment you linked, so apologies for repeating myself a bit). Anyway, for me, at least once ch3 is out people will have two dev cycles of knowledge (and three chapters of content) with which to decide whether or not they want to support. (even though I'm aware that I could just make one now and the situation is the functionally the same; people will decide whether they want to support or not. but it's just a personal preference at this point, where i'm not comfortable with it at this juncture)
While I agree with guys about patreon in general, I mean - you should get rewarded for all hard work you're putting, I also wanna say that you should do it when you really feel like it, no pressure. And yeah, establishing your update-cycles from the beginning (even writing it down in account) would be a great idea (only my humble opinion pf course).

I haven't had many serious conversations with Devs about developing processes, only with a few ones (when I were making translations long ago) - I remember one particular Dev told me that joining patreon kinda changed his perception a bit, difficult to explain, he said while working on a game without patreon he was enjoying it, just working whenever he had time and inspiration, if was his passion project to begin with.

After creating patreon it became more of a work-project, responsibility and all that stuff - he's been working more because he had to whether he had inspiration or not. Personally I think it didn't show on a quality, not even in the slightest but he kept insisting that when he was a free bird it was of a higher quality work. Oh well, that's also depends on personality of course.

Anyways, I hope everything works great for you. Your game definitely deserves a lot of support and appreciation indeed


I can't remember how I found about it. Most likely through the latest updates page on F95.
yep, 90% of games I find through last updates here, another 10% either through steam recommendations or reddit (AVN-lover s group)
 
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MagicMan753

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Nov 19, 2021
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cicadaNGB
Here is some typos or grammar mistakes I found, I cropped the photo to just the words part, but will post in spoiler anyway.

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This other one, I noticed one small continuity error and possibly something else. Spoilers ahead for people, so unless you are dev or have played don't look.

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Just wanted to point these out, to help improve the game in anyway I can. Hope this Helps :)
 

MiltonPowers

Twins Basil! Twins!
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Jul 26, 2023
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cicadaNGB
Here is some typos or grammar mistakes I found, I cropped the photo to just the words part, but will post in spoiler anyway.

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There is one that's right.
"Should remove the "a" before science"
The 'a' is correct, referring to picking one of the sciences, as opposed to a subject called 'science'.

Also, trying not to be that guy, but, some you suggested, while not grammatically correct if you were writing, are perfectly acceptable in spoken speech.

It could be a 'where you come from thing', but for these ones below, I would hear the original text, more than your suggestions.

"In answer, Just gone 9, a fair few people, Half 8, come on already, now you're off, now I know I"
 

cicadaNGB

Member
Apr 28, 2023
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cicadaNGB
Here is some typos or grammar mistakes I found, I cropped the photo to just the words part, but will post in spoiler anyway.

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This other one, I noticed one small continuity error and possibly something else. Spoilers ahead for people, so unless you are dev or have played don't look.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Just wanted to point these out, to help improve the game in anyway I can. Hope this Helps :)
Thanks, I have corrected the errors. Some that were mentioned are just colloquialisms, but the ones that were definitely wrong have been fixed.
 
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MagicMan753

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Thanks, I have corrected the errors. Some that were mentioned are just colloquialisms, but the ones that were definitely wrong have been fixed.
Alright cool, and any thoughts on the story inconsistencies I posted? I know the possible Mia error thing might just be a me thing not sure, but the Teagan thing definitely feels off.
Also should Chloe sex always block Mia? Mia knows what happened, but as long as you don't mention Chloe at party, everything is fine, even if you did sleep with Chloe. I just feel Mia would not be ok with doing something with Mc, if he slept with Chloe, since they are friends and roomies.
Just curious your thoughts on my those possible inconsistencies I posted and this question. Thanks for always taking the time to respond and answer.
 
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cicadaNGB

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Apr 28, 2023
163
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Alright cool, and any thoughts on the story inconsistencies I posted? I know the possible Mia error thing might just be a me thing not sure, but the Teagan thing definitely feels off.
Also should Chloe sex always block Mia? Mia knows what happened, but as long as you don't mention Chloe at party, everything is fine, even if you did sleep with Chloe. I just feel Mia would not be ok with doing something with Mc, if he slept with Chloe, since they are friends and roomies.
Just curious your thoughts on my those possible inconsistencies I posted and this question. Thanks for always taking the time to respond and answer.
The Mia bit is understandable. I remember trying to set up a transitional render there but couldn't pose it properly so just left it. Can appreciate it perhaps being a bit jarring.
The implication is that Tegan (and both sororities really) know all about the challenges etc. so I didn't really think twice about it seeming like an inconsistency in any scenario where you'd get that scene.
On Chloe/Mia, asking Mia about Chloe stops you getting the scene because it's essentially a mood killer. Mia doesn't think it's an appropriate thing to ask or talk about at that time. It also implies to her that you're thinking a lot about Chloe, and might be hung up on her. If you don't mention it, it's an out of sight, out of mind situation where you're both there to have a good time and celebrate the end of pledging. The actual ramifications of being intimate with both Mia and Chloe are still to come, but for the time being sleeping with Chloe doesn't necessarily make Mia like you any less (it's a bit of an awkward situation, sure, and that's going to be addressed later), but bringing it up to her at the party makes her disinclined to have sex with you in the immediacy.
 
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cicadaNGB

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Apr 28, 2023
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While I agree with guys about patreon in general, I mean - you should get rewarded for all hard work you're putting, I also wanna say that you should do it when you really feel like it, no pressure. And yeah, establishing your update-cycles from the beginning (even writing it down in account) would be a great idea (only my humble opinion pf course).

I haven't had many serious conversations with Devs about developing processes, only with a few ones (when I were making translations long ago) - I remember one particular Dev told me that joining patreon kinda changed his perception a bit, difficult to explain, he said while working on a game without patreon he was enjoying it, just working whenever he had time and inspiration, if was his passion project to begin with.

After creating patreon it became more of a work-project, responsibility and all that stuff - he's been working more because he had to whether he had inspiration or not. Personally I think it didn't show on a quality, not even in the slightest but he kept insisting that when he was a free bird it was of a higher quality work. Oh well, that's also depends on personality of course.

Anyways, I hope everything works great for you. Your game definitely deserves a lot of support and appreciation indeed



yep, 90% of games I find through last updates here, another 10% either through steam recommendations or reddit (AVN-lover s group)
This perspective you've written about here is at the back of my mind a little, too, alongside my other reasons for not having a patreon yet. Of course, I'd love to make enough money from this game to be able to work on it full time, who realistically wouldn't? But a) that's an unrealistic ambition, and b) even if that happens it does add a lot of pressure, not least of all financially because you never know if the funds will drop out of nowhere - it's not a (reliably) stable income. I've known people who have done 'content creation' (mostly youtube/twitch) as their full time jobs, as I've seen how stressful it can be with the fluctuating income.
And then of course there's the added pressure you mention of feeling obliged to work on the project as though it were a job, rather than a passion. I'd like to believe that even if I started working on the game full time the passion would stay, but burnouts are a thing everywhere so you can never really tell until it happens.

Still, it's something I hope to do in the future, and I'll deal with any complications as they come. The way I see it is that as long as I'm transparent and communicative with people about my reasons for doing or not doing things then I'm doing my part, and if people are generous enough to support it then that'll be great. And if not, it doesn't especially matter, because the game's getting finished either way, eventually.
 
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Dessolos

Devoted Member
Jul 25, 2017
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Still, it's something I hope to do in the future, and I'll deal with any complications as they come. The way I see it is that as long as I'm transparent and communicative with people about my reasons for doing or not doing things then I'm doing my part, and if people are generous enough to support it then that'll be great. And if not, it doesn't especially matter, because the game's getting finished either way, eventually.
Yeah I find communication is Key alot of devs just stop communicating after a while. But I think most people are understanding of things if there is active communication. So far you have been one of the better devs in that regard and I really do love how you post develops for us on here. The one thing I hate and can't stand about locked post on patron is how most devlogs are behind a paywall. Just feel shitty to me I get it they want to use it as a incentive to sub to them but at the same time I think it would nice to let anyone who enjoys the game know how the deveolopment is going.
 

jawz

Newbie
Jul 9, 2020
94
105
This perspective you've written about here is at the back of my mind a little, too, alongside my other reasons for not having a patreon yet. Of course, I'd love to make enough money from this game to be able to work on it full time, who realistically wouldn't? But a) that's an unrealistic ambition, and b) even if that happens it does add a lot of pressure, not least of all financially because you never know if the funds will drop out of nowhere - it's not a (reliably) stable income. I've known people who have done 'content creation' (mostly youtube/twitch) as their full time jobs, as I've seen how stressful it can be with the fluctuating income.
And then of course there's the added pressure you mention of feeling obliged to work on the project as though it were a job, rather than a passion. I'd like to believe that even if I started working on the game full time the passion would stay, but burnouts are a thing everywhere so you can never really tell until it happens.

Still, it's something I hope to do in the future, and I'll deal with any complications as they come. The way I see it is that as long as I'm transparent and communicative with people about my reasons for doing or not doing things then I'm doing my part, and if people are generous enough to support it then that'll be great. And if not, it doesn't especially matter, because the game's getting finished either way, eventually.
I feel like I may have asked in this thread long ago, but I honestly can't remember if you ever answered.

Are you ever going to add a character gallery? We are now at 45-50 characters. Idk how anyone else can possibly remember every single character. For me personally, I created a text document with a couple of details about each character to help me remember them (what year student, which frat/sorority), but obviously this isn't ideal.

Also, transitions. You desperately need to add them when jumping locations. For example, at the start of the pledge process, when the president tells the pledges it's time to leave, next click the MC is chilling in his room with his roommate. You need either some sort of visual effect or a simple white text on black background saying "30 min later" or "at mc's room"

edit: lmao so i went through this thread and found that i indeed did ask about both the character gallery and transitions back when this was first released.
 
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jawz

Newbie
Jul 9, 2020
94
105
Ended up creating my own character gallery. Accurate as of ch2.2 on 11/10/24

 
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D4rkK1ng

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Feb 17, 2024
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i just played it , it was quite good
the visuals where awesome and the LIs are extremely beautiful. (Mia my choice for now)
The story is simple about college life but the mystery of MC backstory is quite interesting.
Great work, im gonna wait for the next update and have it on my VN folder.
 
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Jan 13, 2021
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i just played it , it was quite good
the visuals where awesome and the LIs are extremely beautiful. (Mia my choice for now)
The story is simple about college life but the mystery of MC backstory is quite interesting.
Great work, im gonna wait for the next update and have it on my VN folder.
Couldn t agree more. Lovely Story and beautiful Girls. Mia is also my absolute fav. Girl. Soooo sexy.... :love: Great work, Dev and Thank you. (y)(y)(y)
 

cicadaNGB

Member
Apr 28, 2023
163
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Hello! Just put another dev log up on itch, so here it is as well. Once again it's nothing too exciting but an update on progress nonetheless.


Back again for a monthly dev log. Seems like I'm going to be keeping to a rough schedule of giving a progress update towards the end of each month, although some might come sooner or later depending on how much I have to say or if I'm waiting to reach a specific point in development.

ANYWAY, I am now over 700 renders into chapter 3. I'm still working on the larger scene that I referenced in the last dev log. As mentioned then, creating the visuals for this scene will take up most of the dev time, as it's by far the largest scene in the update; everything after that are more individual, isolated scenes. It's the same for all of these big group party scenes, really. Luckily, while there were two of these parties in ch2, there's only the one in ch3, so once I'm past this point the scenes will be smaller and theoretically quicker to work through.

It's always more fun for me to be able to give these updates when I've been working through smaller scenes, because I can talk more about what I've been doing rather than it just being more of the same. And also because I'm able to give a wider range of previews when I've worked through multiple scenes, which I always prefer because it gives more of a variety look into the chapter.

ANYWAY, that's all I've really got to say in this dev log. I'm hoping by the next one I'll have finished, or be close to finishing, this long scene. But, I've had similar hopes before and they've been far too optimistic, so we'll see how things go. As always, see the previews below for a look into what I've been working on.

Thanks!

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Justaphase

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May 1, 2024
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Hey cicadaNGB I was wondering how the next update is coming along? Haven't seen anything in the last few weeks, I hope everything is going well.
 

Dessolos

Devoted Member
Jul 25, 2017
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haha was just checking this thread before bed to see if I just forget to look at it in awhile , see I didn't miss anything. Either way hope development treating you good
 

cicadaNGB

Member
Apr 28, 2023
163
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Hey cicadaNGB I was wondering how the next update is coming along? Haven't seen anything in the last few weeks, I hope everything is going well.
Nothing much to report since the last dev log from the end of November. At 800 and some renders, so if you want to consider chapter 2's total of 2400, that's maybe a third of the way through. But right now I've no idea quite how big ch3 might be in terms of renders.

If you want a look into scene numbers, I'm still working on the big pool party scene that I've previewed, there's a lot of smaller interactions/conversations in that which is taking quite some time to work through, as have pretty much all the party scenes (and, without wanting to spoil too much, that's going to continue in ch4 too). But there's only one such scene in ch3, so everything after this is smaller scenes, which, theoretically, will be quicker to work through. Looking at my very rough list of what happens after the party, there's 14 'scenes' there, of varying length. These scenes may not necessarily render quicker, but they will be a lot quicker to set up because there's less characters involved in each individual scene.

I'm probably behind schedule right now, if I had tried to guess where I'd be at 4 months on from the release of ch2, but these longer scenes have consistently taken me longer to work through than I expect. Perhaps I'm too optimistic with how quick I can work/how quick things can render.

On a tangential note, sometimes I do wish I could release more frequently, but I've got a very set, deliberate start and end point for every chapter and I don't really want to release half chapters or anything like that that I've seen other games do. For instance, in theory I could release an update once I'm done with the pool party, as there's a fair amount of content just up to that point. But, for story/narrative reasons, I'd much prefer to wait until the 'full' chapter is done. And, from what I've seen elsewhere, people tend to prefer longer updates, even when they take more time to make. But it's naturally frustrating that the next update is many months away still, especially when like 90% of ch3 is written, and it's just the renders I'm always waiting on, and I want to get the next parts of the story out as quick as I can.
 
Jul 1, 2018
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Nothing much to report since the last dev log from the end of November. At 800 and some renders, so if you want to consider chapter 2's total of 2400, that's maybe a third of the way through. But right now I've no idea quite how big ch3 might be in terms of renders.

If you want a look into scene numbers, I'm still working on the big pool party scene that I've previewed, there's a lot of smaller interactions/conversations in that which is taking quite some time to work through, as have pretty much all the party scenes (and, without wanting to spoil too much, that's going to continue in ch4 too). But there's only one such scene in ch3, so everything after this is smaller scenes, which, theoretically, will be quicker to work through. Looking at my very rough list of what happens after the party, there's 14 'scenes' there, of varying length. These scenes may not necessarily render quicker, but they will be a lot quicker to set up because there's less characters involved in each individual scene.

I'm probably behind schedule right now, if I had tried to guess where I'd be at 4 months on from the release of ch2, but these longer scenes have consistently taken me longer to work through than I expect. Perhaps I'm too optimistic with how quick I can work/how quick things can render.

On a tangential note, sometimes I do wish I could release more frequently, but I've got a very set, deliberate start and end point for every chapter and I don't really want to release half chapters or anything like that that I've seen other games do. For instance, in theory I could release an update once I'm done with the pool party, as there's a fair amount of content just up to that point. But, for story/narrative reasons, I'd much prefer to wait until the 'full' chapter is done. And, from what I've seen elsewhere, people tend to prefer longer updates, even when they take more time to make. But it's naturally frustrating that the next update is many months away still, especially when like 90% of ch3 is written, and it's just the renders I'm always waiting on, and I want to get the next parts of the story out as quick as I can.
I may one day make VN. And I would never take more than a year to deliver updates. Even if they are shorter. It keeps the community active and provide some development on the project to those who follow it.

You are not getting paid for this so you hold no accountability to anyone but I have also seen that people get very disappointed with the ridiculous amount of time between updates. I don't think this is the result of their will or that they want to support a project lasting for more than a decade but that they are "forced" to as devs are taking more and more time to barely deliver any work.
 
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