VN Ren'Py Nothing Is Forever [v0.7.3] [MrSilverLust]

[Skylaroo]

1) Seemingly little content for players that want to be a good and caring guy, but not submissive. Basically a caring dom. They might identify with many sensitive answers, but see no benefit whatsoever in picking those. This is, to some extent, also present in the reverse for sub players.

This is the potential problem when you create a system that split content while the game is still in development. Being good and caring guy usually ends up more with slow burn which then makes things feel like there's nothing going on as we're only on chapter 2. Not every option can move at the same pace. Ideally, people should be judging the game once it's completed where hopefully there's enough content for every personality.

3) some people don’t enjoy the system for several reasons. Or might become too focused on the strategy side of gathering the points for their preferred kinks, and that becomes detrimental for the roleplay experience. This game is packed with flavor choices so that you can mold your MC as you like. All that work gets wasted if some pre-determine choices are automatically picked based on what points they give. It’s important to incentivize players to collect at least some points from all branches, no matter what playstyle they are going for.

I think the concept of the system is good, but I'm not sure if the implementation is ideal yet. On paper, it's good that MC has specific personality. But it didn't work optimally because the player is making choices somewhat blindly which means that players could feel like they've wasted their time if they picked the "wrong" choice. We can argue that there's no wrong choice because our choice decides what kind of personalities MC have, but from player's point of view, it's extremely rare for them to choose just for the sake of pure roleplaying. Most likely, there's a reason behind choosing something with the purpose of achieving specific goal.

A small anecdote of my own playthrough. I tried roleplaying on my first playthrough and I picked skills blindly to form the kind of character my MC would be. My first choice was Romantic. But it turned out to be completely useless for now. That means I wasted 20 points and I was also blocked from Emma's scene while I could've got it if I spent the 20 points on Just Lay There. I appreciate that there are a lot more points available than what's required, but there's really no guarantee that I might not end up wasting my points again. This then changed me into just collecting points and only picking skills when the scene required me to. Because of that, I no longer roleplayed because roleplaying didn't give me the optimal gaming experience.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the idea of the system is a good thing. I'm just unsure how to implement it good enough to avoid that kind of thing. As sad as this may sound, I start to think that Easy Mode is the way for me to actually "roleplay" because it'd allow me to choose dialogue choices that I want without having to worry about choosing the wrong choice and be locked out.

If the game is full release in completed form, I definitely would've played Blind Mode first, then replay on Easy Mode. But because the game is still in development (potentially still years to completion), I'm leaning towards Easy Mode because it wouldn't be good experience if there's no content for my MC.

Lastly, just want to say you've done a good job and wishing you all the very best.

 

[MrSilverLust]

I think the concept of the system is good, but I'm not sure if the implementation is ideal yet.

I think your post illustrates well the problems and benefits of the system.

A small anecdote of my own playthrough. I tried roleplaying on my first playthrough and I picked skills blindly to form the kind of character my MC would be. My first choice was Romantic. But it turned out to be completely useless for now.

It’s because of feedback like this that I’ve added an extra info panel to state this:


That wasn’t, unfortunately, properly explained. I hope it is not too “hidden” so that players can find it. Because that will, indeed, result in a poor gaming experience. Buying skills ahead of time only causes frustration.

I think if you do the following, you'll have a good gaming experience:

• bank the points
• when you get to a lewd scene, if you want to see it, spend the points without fear of not having enough points for a future scene
• trust that the game is balanced well enough that, in the next lewd scene, you’ll, once again, have enough points to unlock it

One thing to keep in mind is: so far, if you picked all the choices on a ratio of 25%/25%/25%/25%, you’d end up with an average of around 32 points. At this rhythm, if the game has 10 chapters, you get 320 points for each personality. By the end of the game, you can get something like this:


With not evenly destributed choices, but instead with some roleplay to build a personality, you can, for example, get less points in the Manly tree because you aren’t interested in many of those skills, and more in the other trees to finish them all. Point is, there will be enough points for all of that.


Now, the system is design to lock you out of girls that don’t fancy your personality. If, like someone said above, they only pick the Cunning choices, they shouldn’t be surprised they can’t get the kinks that require you to act Honorably. It goes like this:

1. At the beginning of the episode the player learns Lea has an exhibition kink
2. He knows that skill is in the honorable tree
3. Since then until her scene there are a total of 77 Hon points that can be picked (the 1st chapter had around 70 more)
4. When her scene arrives he only needs 20 points of a maximum total of 140.
5. If he doesn’t have that minimum of 20, Lea isn’t interested in his personality. That's making as little as 4 Hon choices in the whole game.

I feel this is reasonable.

So, for now at least, I think I've made all the required improvments and the system will stay like this. There's always the Cheat mod on the 1st post for anyone that doesn't like it. Anyone can play the game as they like, as long as they are having fun, that's what matters.

 

[dolfe67]

One thing to keep in mind is: so far, if you picked all the choices on a ratio of 25%/25%/25%/25%, you’d end up with an average of around 32 points. At this rhythm, if the game has 10 chapters, you get 320 points for each personality. By the end of the game, you can get something like this:

With not evenly destributed choices, but instead with some roleplay to build a personality, you can, for example, get less points in the Manly tree because you aren’t interested in many of those skills, and more in the other trees to finish them all. Point is, there will be enough points for all of that.

You can't expect players to have that balanced points. Not every answer is the same, and again it's not choosing a good answer then but choosing the points you want, since the points are specific to a tree.

If he doesn’t have that minimum of 20, Lea isn’t interested in his personality.

Except it doesn't feel like that : it's the MC who says "I'm not right for you" (if you can't pick the other answer), and not Lea who rejects him. She was ready to take off her panties.


In the end I think I'll cheat or play in easy mode (when implemented), but I wanted to give my feedback in case it was useful to you.

 

[YogSothoth1982]

How do I open the skills menu?

EDIT: Ok, It seems that I hadn't advanced enough in the story to open it...

I had come to a choice to see a "sexual fantasy" and a dialogue appeared in which it was said that I had to improve the skills to see it and didn't find the menu. In any case, since I didn't want to see it, I don't care that the menu appeared afterwards. I don't Know if it is a bug.

 

[MrSilverLust]

I had come to a choice to see a "sexual fantasy" and a dialogue appeared in which it was said that I had to improve the skills to see it and didn't find the menu. In any case, since I didn't want to see it, I don't care that the menu appeared afterwards. I don't Know if it is a bug.

I’ll double check, but I think the menu appears immediately after that tutorial message is shown, as intended.

Except it doesn't feel like that : it's the MC who says "I'm not right for you" (if you can't pick the other answer), and not Lea who rejects him. She was ready to take off her panties.

That’s a very good point. Not having an option available is different than having Lea saying she isn’t interested. There’s a dissonance between what the system says and what the story does. I'm not sure how to fix this, I'll have to think about it.

You can't expect players to have that balanced points. Not every answer is the same, and again it's not choosing a good answer then but choosing the points you want, since the points are specific to a tree.

I think that example would be a terrible build. It was just to show what happens if anyone picks choices randomly and ends up with an even point distribution. The point was that, a player that is making choices that fit his character/kinks, will have enough points to get all the skills he wants. Of course, if he majorly ignores some choices, like honorable, he can't expect to get skills from that tree.

In the end I think I'll cheat or play in easy mode (when implemented), but I wanted to give my feedback in case it was useful to you.

Absolutely, all of this helps. I think with these changes things are getting better, even though this is not a perfect system by any means. I tried to do a few things differently. Some worked better than others. With the extra modes, hopefully, anyone will be able to play as they like.

Also, I had to balance everything from the start without knowing for certain how many chapters there would in total, average number of points given per chapter, how players interpret the system, etc. It’s normal that there are some growing pains. It might well be that the relax mode, for example, turns out to actually be better than the normal mode.

 

[dolfe67]

BTW it's spelled "immersion". Maybe change "Advantages" by "Pros"

And I don't agree with this description, I don't think it's a loss of immersion but it's a minor detail

 

[MrSilverLust]

View attachment 1489156

BTW it's spelled "immersion". Maybe change "Advantages" by "Pros"

And I don't agree with this description, I don't think it's a loss of immersion but it's a minor detail

Thanks.

The menu now looks quite different. It is an option menu always accessible from the skills menu. You can toggle ON and OFF the different modes at will, or instantly get all points to buy all skills. This seems better than forcing players to start a new game.

 

[YogSothoth1982]

I’ll double check, but I think the menu appears immediately after that tutorial message is shown, as intended.

Maybe it's just a bug that happened to me for some reason. In any case, I already have it, and the only scene it affected I wasn't going to see it anyway.

 

[YogSothoth1982]

I think that example would be a terrible build. It was just to show what happens if anyone picks choices randomly and ends up with an even point distribution. The point was that, a player that is making choices that fit his character/kinks, will have enough points to get all the skills he wants. Of course, if he majorly ignores some choices, like honorable, he can't expect to get skills from that tree.

From the Manly, Sensitive, and Cunning trees I have 1 skill in each and, from the names of the other skills, I'm not sure I'm interested in unlocking more.

Of the honor tree, I think I will unlock almost all of them. Bondage and discipline surely not, and sensationplay I'm not sure. I don't like or dislike the role-playing and open-minded skills, but the kinkiest skill isn't really something that appeals to me, at least by the name. The other 6, I think that they are fine for my tastes.

At least from the names, the new menu has more skills (few, but not much more, equal to 4 or 5 in total) that may interest me.

 

[lovehate]

Had from little to zero expectations when started this but it become one of my favs very quickly!
How long does a single chapter dev cycle take?

 

[MordreadRN]

The kinks are not saving for me I have tried removing the game and installing again. And I have patched it to 2.2 - I did a fresh run after reinstalling, did not help.

 

[Gokudera]

I quite like both chapters.
I love that (so far at least) you're not blocked off scenes if you go towards one side of the two opposite paths, but instead you get to unlock the scene with a kink of either path. The bits with the internal personalities are quite fun, also.

A question in regards of the epilogue/woman you're going for, would it be best to try avoiding contents with other girls? Not that it's something that will happen soon, but I was also wondering if every girl would have her specific ending, as for some characters there might be blockages on a full ending, based on their interests or relationships.

 

[Quibble Bubble]

I'm really liking the story setup.
The drama with Emma is interesting, as well as the way other relationships are developing around you.
The skills tree seems like it will add to the experience later on. I do hope that it's not just lewd scenes that will be affected. It's be fun to see different characters gravitate to/ avoid the MC based on their dominant traits.

I've subbed on patreon, because I think this has potential. Honestly shocked so few people have subbed, it comes across as much more polished and rich than expected. The art style is interesting too.

All up, seem an interesting plot and I look forward to seeing it unfold.

I am wondering if the MC will get things sorted out soon, just before the ex shows up and throws the merde into the ventilateur.

Either way, happy to be along for the ride.

 

[Swooosh]

There won't be an harem path. However, at certain points of the game the MC might have several fuck buddies, or cheat on whatever current partner he might have.

As for future tags that aren't in the game yet, this is what currently I have in mind:

Planned tags:
Anal Sex, Bdsm, Blackmail, Cheating, Corruption, Drugs, Exhibitionism, Female domination, Footjob, Group sex, Groping, Handjob, Humiliation, Interracial, Lesbian, Masturbation, Milf, Multiple Penetration, Sex Toys, Sleep sex, Spanking, Teasing, Titfuck, Urination, Virgin, Voyeurism

But take this with a pinch of salt, plans change all the time and a few tags might be added/removed from this list.

Hi, which tags are current in game? I'm interested in humiliation, interracial and ntr/netorase. Thx!

 

[J1215]

(The MC is on the path of a certain girl), in order for him to develop a relationship with her, certain skills are needed (from the table) (which attract this particular girl). The more acquire these necessary skills, the greater the percentage of compatibility with her.
Perhaps the choices in the game also affect the relationship.
It would be great if the girl's data page showed this necessary skills (and percentage of compatibility) and how the relationship with her is developing, (maybe and relationship statistics)!
It will help a lot if need a path of relationship with a certain girl and a scenes with a certain girl!

 

[J1215]

I'm looking forward to the development of the relationship between the MC and Deb!
I hope the MC has a happy ending with Deb! = (so that they would be together!)
I like the dominant Deb!

 

[vlalakis]

I got a bug at

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If I ignore the bug like 10 times, I end up at

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and I can continue the game.

I attach the anonymized trace for debugging.

 

[LAKueiJin]

Playing this game, I must say I was mostly interested in Emma, Deb, Jen and maybe Kim, but then, out of nowhere, on a pleasant evening while smoking pot...

Spoiler: Meme incoming - you've been warned!

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[MrSilverLust]

Had from little to zero expectations when started this but it become one of my favs very quickly!
How long does a single chapter dev cycle take?

Last chapter took me 3 months. I expect the same time for the next couple chapters.

A question in regards of the epilogue/woman you're going for, would it be best to try avoiding contents with other girls? Not that it's something that will happen soon, but I was also wondering if every girl would have her specific ending, as for some characters there might be blockages on a full ending, based on their interests or relationships.

As of now, none of choices with one girl, will influence any possible end with another. But at some point, you will have to choose between the girls. But that moment is still far away.

Hi, which tags are current in game? I'm interested in humiliation, interracial and ntr/netorase. Thx!

None of those are in the game yet. The tags in the 1st post reflect well enough the content that is currently in the game. As more updates bring more kinks, the tags of the game will be updated.

I got a bug at

Spoiler

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If I ignore the bug like 10 times, I end up at

Spoiler

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and I can continue the game.

I attach the anonymized trace for debugging.

Sorry about that. Go to the options screen and swith OFF the shader effects. That will fix that bug.
The next patch should fix the need to do that. The shaders won't be used if they aren't supported.

Playing this game, I must say I was mostly interested in Emma, Deb, Jen and maybe Kim, but then, out of nowhere, on a pleasant evening while smoking pot...

Spoiler: Meme incoming - you've been warned!

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She's just singing

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, don't want to give you false hopes!

 

[LAKueiJin]

She's just singing

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, don't want to give you false hopes!

It literally mentions in the next few lines that it's a Bo Burnham special, but hey, can't a man dream based on the contents of the lyrics?

Also, jokes aside, I really loved your game so far! The protagonist and many of the girls are intelligent and believable characters, the few erotic scenes there are so far are smoothly woven into the narrative,

Spoiler

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and I'm really looking forward to the next update! You have great writing ability and, given maledom and vanilla isn't my cup of tea, I will mostly enjoy only part of your game (the one where MC journeys deeper and deeper into submission, so I'll probably focus on affectionate and cunning choices and most likely just some of the girls), but there is something in your game for a lot of people with different tastes and kinks so congrats for pulling that off so well!

As of now, none of choices with one girl, will influence any possible end with another. But at some point, you will have to choose between the girls. But that moment is still far away.

I noticed though that the choices for some of the girls do influence dialogue lines with others at multiple points in the story, so I assume there will be a point in the relationship with, say, Emma, at which if you constantly made choices that she would disapprove of with the other girls her romance paths will become locked, correct? Or will it also largely depend on how dominant/submissive/cunning/honourable MC is?

All the best to you dev and good luck with the rest of the game!