selberdreher

Member
Dec 29, 2017
448
940
Do have to mention I'm not a fan of the stat points to unlock perks thing though. Story would be just as good without it, and currently the only purpose it serves is blocking off choices/content becauae of some arbitrary number system.
I have to say, this is the most interesting trait of this game in my opinion. It really got me pumped for this game, and i remember when i first encountered it i thought like: "Wow, this is huge! Fresh, sophisticated, never done before with endless possibilities. Great!" My only concern was and is, that it is nearly impossible to make full use of all the variations it could provide. It is so much better than that rather lazy stockpiling of Love and Corruption points we see in so much other games.
 

GreenGobbo

Member
Oct 18, 2018
453
1,226
I have to say, this is the most interesting trait of this game in my opinion. It really got me pumped for this game, and i remember when i first encountered it i thought like: "Wow, this is huge! Fresh, sophisticated, never done before with endless possibilities. Great!" My only concern was and is, that it is nearly impossible to make full use of all the variations it could provide. It is so much better than that rather lazy stockpiling of Love and Corruption points we see in so much other games.
Yeah. Gonna have to disagree there. :ROFLMAO:
Not a fan of love/corruption points in those games either.
I'm more of a "if you're gonna give your players a choice, then let them choose as they see fit" person.

I don't mind stats in an actual rpg, but for a choose your own adventure book with pictures and porn? Pfffft. No need for any arbitrary numbers. Just blocks you off from options/scenes you might have wanted to pick and for no better reason than to punish a player for not doing things "optimally". Which is a pretty dumb concept for an interactive picture book.

Nit really a big gripe mind you, but not an opinion I will ever back down on. The way it happens in this game is slightly more annoying than most for me.
But I'll still play. Will never enjoy that aspect of it at all, but I'll still play.
 
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selberdreher

Member
Dec 29, 2017
448
940
Yeah. Gonna have to disagree there. :ROFLMAO:
Not a fan of love/corruption points in those games either.
I'm more of a "if you're gonna give your players a choice, then let them choose as they see fit" person.

I don't mind stats in an actual rpg, but for a choose your own adventure book with pictures and porn? Pfffft. No need for any arbitrary numbers. Just blocks you off from options/scenes you might have wanted to pick and for no better reason than to punish a player for not doing things "optimally". Which is a pretty dumb concept for an interactive picture book.

Nit really a big gripe mind you, but not an opinion I will ever back down on. The way it happens in this game is slightly more annoying than most for me.
But I'll still play. Will never enjoy that aspect of it at all, but I'll still play.
Well, i do get your point, and i don't need to change your position on this one.
To me, without having to take into account some thresholds imposed by the game, they often feel like becoming i dunno... flat? pale? kinetic? I think i enjoy a bit of a 'challenge' to get my 'rewards', rather than just being always accomodated.
Yeah, but people are thankfully different, and there is no harm in disagreeing on that particular feature.
:cool:
 

Mister_M

Engaged Member
Apr 2, 2018
2,378
4,564
Yeah. Gonna have to disagree there. :ROFLMAO:
Not a fan of love/corruption points in those games either.
I'm more of a "if you're gonna give your players a choice, then let them choose as they see fit" person.

I don't mind stats in an actual rpg, but for a choose your own adventure book with pictures and porn? Pfffft. No need for any arbitrary numbers. Just blocks you off from options/scenes you might have wanted to pick and for no better reason than to punish a player for not doing things "optimally". Which is a pretty dumb concept for an interactive picture book.

Nit really a big gripe mind you, but not an opinion I will ever back down on. The way it happens in this game is slightly more annoying than most for me.
But I'll still play. Will never enjoy that aspect of it at all, but I'll still play.
In a way you can turn this RPG-like mechanic off in the game by clicking 'get all skills now' (Skills -> Options) or you can play using Relax Mode which doubles the amount of pts gained for every choice.
 

GreenGobbo

Member
Oct 18, 2018
453
1,226
In a way you can turn this RPG-like mechanic off in the game by clicking 'get all skills now' (Skills -> Options) or you can play using Relax Mode which doubles the amount of pts gained for every choice.
No shit? Never even saw that. Will have to do that for my next run.
 
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Nov 16, 2021
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There is also an universal renpy mod, in which you can change your points if you would have come up short or you could pick other grayed out options due to it only being for the current main love interest:
https://f95zone.to/threads/universal-renpy-mod-1-9-4-mod-any-renpy-game-yourself.48025/

I usually like this a lot as you can still switch paths even after you made a "wrong" choice or understand what choices you had to make in order to see content, usually listed by a condition
 

osanaiko

Engaged Member
Modder
Jul 4, 2017
2,255
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Nit really a big gripe mind you, but not an opinion I will ever back down on. The way it happens in this game is slightly more annoying than most for me.
But I'll still play. Will never enjoy that aspect of it at all, but I'll still play.
Not taking any exception to your opinion which is clearly explained and reasoned - but are you aware the Dev has already put in place some alternate game modes to allow players to enjoy the game on their desired terms?

There is "Relax mode" which gives you double points for all choices (so you will probably have no issues getting whichever fetish skills you need for your desired playthrough), and also a "Cheat mode" which just gives you all skills and makes the points irrelevant. You can enable these via the "Skills" page and press the "Options" button down the bottom. There's also "blind mode" that doesn't tell you for which personality trait you'll get points when making choices, for "immersive role-players".
 
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Frosty2000

Active Member
Nov 16, 2017
593
1,604
Hmm, so many of you guys seem to be so picky when it comes to the love interests. Am I right to assume most of you are single in real life? ;)
Personally, as long as the game doesn't force me to make a final decision, I just go for everyone and see where it will lead. Male slut route ftw! :p
 

Vleder

Member
Dec 14, 2020
464
1,192
Personally, as long as the game doesn't force me to make a final decision, I just go for everyone and see where it will lead. Male slut route ftw! :p
There's good fun in that! As there is when you go for everyone, even despite the hints and your better judgement, and then it all blows spectacularly in yelling, tears and other forms of fireworks just like in the end of this chapter. And then you go back to make it right or even try to explode in a different way. I'm sure there will more chances for that...
 

GreenGobbo

Member
Oct 18, 2018
453
1,226
There is also an universal renpy mod, in which you can change your points if you would have come up short or you could pick other grayed out options due to it only being for the current main love interest:
https://f95zone.to/threads/universal-renpy-mod-1-9-4-mod-any-renpy-game-yourself.48025/

I usually like this a lot as you can still switch paths even after you made a "wrong" choice or understand what choices you had to make in order to see content, usually listed by a condition
Let me know when you repack the game with the mod preloaded as an .apk and I'll try it out.:ROFLMAO:



Not taking any exception to your opinion which is clearly explained and reasoned - but are you aware the Dev has already put in place some alternate game modes to allow players to enjoy the game on their desired terms?

There is "Relax mode" which gives you double points for all choices (so you will probably have no issues getting whichever fetish skills you need for your desired playthrough), and also a "Cheat mode" which just gives you all skills and makes the points irrelevant. You can enable these via the "Skills" page and press the "Options" button down the bottom. There's also "blind mode" that doesn't tell you for which personality trait you'll get points when making choices, for "immersive role-players".
Thanks for the help there, but someone already beat you to that last night.


Hmm, so many of you guys seem to be so picky when it comes to the love interests. Am I right to assume most of you are single in real life? ;)
Personally, as long as the game doesn't force me to make a final decision, I just go for everyone and see where it will lead. Male slut route ftw! :p
Yeah, I normally go for all the gals in games like this too. Story (from my perspective) was giving me good reasons not to hook up with most of them except for Bri. Suprisingly she seems, narratively, like she'd be the only person MC could hook up with without any negative consequences. But she just comes across as really boring. Kknd-hearted for sure, but still boring. Plus by thay point I was kinda rooting for the MC to have a complete mental breakdown. :ROFLMAO:

Think about it though. For Jen the game keeps saying how going after her will cost him his job/license, and 3 people (MC, Prof. Cunny, and Kellly) have all mentioned potential jail time with the Professer saying that in their version of the world dating a former client within 2 years of therapy is automatic incarceration. Lea's sweet, a little naive, and kinda boring. Plus you're effectively her boss. That would put her in a very vulnerable position and she's already got to think about her other stressers. Add to that starting a relationship with her boss in a job that can affect her academic performance? Not a good power dynamic there. Olivia is in an open relationship sure, but it's with your best-friend. They might say everything is all good, but games like these are built on inter-personal drama, so you just know going that route is gonna cause a lot of friction. Kim can go jump off a cliff for all I care. And Deb... well, I already explained that one earlier.

Plus, watching the MC's mental health spiralling was pretty fun. :LOL:


Edit: oh yeah, and I forgot about Emma. Probably your soon to be coworker. And let's be real here, they might have feelings for each other but any type of romantic relationship thwy might have would be centered around anger, fighting, and emotional abuse.
 
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silversurfer1

Member
Oct 9, 2019
234
569
I really can't imagine how anyone would be missing out on scenes for lack of points unless you're intentionally picking dialogue choices in opposition to the character you actually want to play. Even on normal mode there's just... an abundance of points. Just save them until you need to buy a skill and you should easily have all the points you need, probably closer to twice what you need tbh.
 
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balvenie1401

Well-Known Member
Dec 29, 2017
1,381
2,168
I really can't imagine how anyone would be missing out on scenes for lack of points unless you're intentionally picking dialogue choices in opposition to the character you actually want to play. Even on normal mode there's just... an abundance of points. Just save them until you need to buy a skill and you should easily have all the points you need, probably closer to twice what you need tbh.
Agreed
 

Frosty2000

Active Member
Nov 16, 2017
593
1,604
...
Lea's sweet, a little naive, and kinda boring. Plus you're effectively her boss. That would put her in a very vulnerable position and she's already got to think about her other stressers. Add to that starting a relationship with her boss in a job that can affect her academic performance? Not a good power dynamic there.
...
Hear that quite often, but the MC is not her boss. He just helped Jamie making a decision concerning hiring someone. So yeah that issue doesn't exist.
Concerning Jen I must have missed the part about prison time for having a relationship with her. As far as I know MC would probably loose his job, but that's it. Also the game telling us what the consequences would be if people find out, doesn't mean that this will necessarily happen. Don't think MrSilverlust really want to explore too many bad endings.
 
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GreenGobbo

Member
Oct 18, 2018
453
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Hear that quite often, but the MC is not her boss. He just helped Jamie making a decision concerning hiring someone. So yeah that issue doesn't exist.
Concerning Jen I must have missed the part about prison time for having a relationship with her. As far as I know MC would probably loose his job, but that's it. Also the game telling us what the consequences would be if people find out, doesn't mean that this will necessarily happen. Don't think MrSilverlust really want to explore too many bad endings.
Jamie might be the defacto head of the company and give the marching orders off screen, but Lea is just an intern and MC has already given her a few work tasks to accomplish. Sure we're only privy to his POV, but he coaches her and instructs her like a boss when they're working. Close enough to count as far as I'm concerned even if it's not exactly the case.
The jail thing was from Professor Cunny. She says that it is illegal to have a romantic relationship with any current or former client within 2 years of the last session with them. The actual word jail may not be used, but the implication is right there. Seemed pretty obvious to me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for all the other stuff from my comments you other guys were all trying to pick apart, keep in mind I said I like the game. You don't need to defend it's honor from me. I'm not over here stealing it's lunch money or talking shit about it's mom. :ROFLMAO:
Only pointed out a few things I saw/thought because nothing is perfect and I was offering a little constructive criticism.
 

JollyGeorgieM

Member
Apr 14, 2019
232
1,229
Just wanted to clear up: the fact that something is illegal does not necessarily mean jail time (or else jaywalkers and litterbugs would share cells with robbers, con men, and violent offenders, for example - we haven't hit that level of dystopia just yet lol). Moreover, in the game it explicitly states what the punishments would be: he would lose his license as a therapist, lose his job, and never work in the field again. There is no jail time. There isn't even mention of a fine. Proof:

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Tbh there are other instances where this is mentioned, but I feel like these screenshots are enough to get the point across. In contrast, there are no pictures of Prof. Cunny mentioning or implying jailtime, because... they don't exist. I actually went specifically to that conversation with her hoping to find evidence one way or the other and there wasn't anything usable. Which is perhaps the strongest evidence that prison isn't in the picture. So... yeah.

Long story short, unprofessional conduct isn't a crime punishable by jail time. Just complete revocation of your practicing license and immediate termination of your current employment. No biggie, amirite? Idk what the MC's so worried about! Lol. Btw, I hope you don't feel like I'm jumping down your throat with all this - whether the MC can go to prison or not isn't really important, because the main issue is there are serious consequences for his relationship with Jen and that's a fact - but I just figured we might as well keep everyone on the same page, ya know? :geek:

And yes, yes I did use this as an excuse to play through the game again. Thanks for that! :D Have a good one, guys!
 

MrSilverLust

MSL Games
Game Developer
May 22, 2021
449
3,005
Do have to mention I'm not a fan of the stat points to unlock perks thing though. Story would still be just as good without it, and currently the only purpose it serves is blocking off choices/content becauae of some arbitrary number system. Just seems dumb to me. If the choices are there, let the player make them. No need to play gatekeeper like that.
I don't mind stats in an actual rpg, but for a choose your own adventure book with pictures and porn? Pfffft. No need for any arbitrary numbers. Just blocks you off from options/scenes you might have wanted to pick and for no better reason than to punish a player for not doing things "optimally". Which is a pretty dumb concept for an interactive picture book.
I kinda like discussing game design, so, if you want to elaborate a bit more on this, I wouldn’t mind brainstorming a bit. If anything else, it might help me or others stumbling upon this to have to design something better.



When I come up with this system in theory, it was meant to address some typical shortcomings I’ve seen in visual novels:

A not congruent story: in many cases, the MC can just make any choice out of the blue, regardless of how out of character it is. Your MC has always done the right thing, acting honorable and judge when others misbehave? Doesn’t matter, click this button here and he’ll fuck his patient. After that, he goes back at always activing as if he’s on a high horse? Doesn’t matter, he can keep fucking the patient as if he had double personality. So, in a system where just picking choices is all that matters, there might be a dissonance between what the MC normally always does, and some particular choices, which decreases the quality of the story. In NiF, to fuck Jen, the MC has have to picked many cunning choices before. In essence, he has to act as like the kind of person that would fuck patients (a second time). Imo, this increases the quality of the story.

Need for a walkthrough/read the dev’s mind: to fix the points above, what you usually see is the game keeping track of some choices. Usually it kind of goes like this: A random girl (let’s call her Deb), likes submissive men. When you’re with her, you’ll have 2 choices and if you pick one you have “+1 Deb love points”. At some point, if you have +10 Deb love points you can have a sex scene with her. The “right” choice to pick may or may not be that clear, and, more often than not, you might need a walkthrough to pick them. In NiF, the player doesn’t need to pick any particular choices. Instead, his MC has to act in a certain way. Has to be a kinda of character. What defines if a girl gets in a relationship with him is not if he opened the door of her and complimented her dress, but instead is if he, in a holistic way, is the kind of man she would be interested. Imo, this increases the quality of the story.

It’s hard to adapt the story to the kind of MC the player is roleplaying as: the coffee scene with Kim on chapter 3 will play quite different depending if you have more manly points, or more submissive points. If the MC is a manly character, she’ll give him less shit, she will look at him as potential man to cheat on her boyfriend with, and the MC will be more incisive in his actions. If the MC is a sensitive character, she’ll know she can much more push his buttons, she’ll look at him as someone she can completely walk all over, and the MC will be more polite with his answers and even gain a hard on when she grabs his balls. All this happens organically because the game has enough information by that point to know how to develop that scene. If it was purely based on choices at that scene, you’ll even have to pick choices about how she would act. If it was just based on some previous interactions between you two, you’ll run into the problem highlighted above: go check a walkthrough to look up “what 5 choices you had to pick to not get a hard-on and be mocked by Kim”. Imo, this increases immersion and the quality of the story.



Besides that, the system was also meant to allow for some extra gameplay features:

Anticipation and better immersion as a roleplay as a psychologist: because there is a table with a bunch of kinks that you know will be used at some point with at least one girl, you might start to guess which one of them will be used with which girl. You really like the cuckquean kink? Perhaps you start speculating which girl will have that kink and try to read between the lines to find out ahead of time. Kinda act like a “psychological detective” and, when the choice is revealed, you can say “I totally saw that one coming”. Without that system, you might not even know the kink is in the game and don’t “look” for kinks about it. And then just be prompted with the choice to cuck your girlfriend or not.

Protection against seeing any kink you don’t like: you hate sharing your girl? No need to have to pick a walkthrough to check which choices you have to not pick. You know that, if you don’t pick that skill, you’ll never see that particular content you hate. In a game with so many kinks, which half of them are dominant and half submissive, I thought this was important. You don’t have to walk in egg shells afraid of picking the wrong choice, or play with a walkthrough opened in the background, or end up being fucked in the ass by a girl and wondered how the fuck did you end up there and which choices you need to pick differently in the next play through. You simply know, if you don’t pick a skill, that won’t happen.



So, in summary, I don’t think this system is dumb because:
  1. – creates a consistent personality for the MC
  2. – you don’t need a walkthrough to know which choices to pick. You just need to know you need to have enough of those points
  3. – characters can react to the kind of man the MC is in a more holistic manner, as in, to the sum of his choices and not to what he picked in a couple occasions.
  4. – It clearly indicates which kinks there are in game (less need to keep asking if kink x is in the game), and it might also be fun to try to guess which girls have which kinks
  5. – it gives the player a peace of mind from knowing he won’t see any content he doesn’t like.
So, that was in theory. In practice, I had to design the whole system and points required for each skill, predict how many points there will be per chapter, when a given skill will be needed, how many points there will be by the end of the game, how many chapters there will be, all of which even before writing a line of text. The system is quite forgiving, and I’m not sure if it does most of those points explained above as well as I expected it would in theory. I’m not yet sure if it was a failed experiment or not, or how I’d even improve upon it if I could start from scratch.

But I do think those were valid concerns to have. And I still think this system does a better job than "simply letting the playerchoices to tell a story and communicate to the player how to get the content he wants and avoid the one he doesn’t.



in the game it explicitly states what the punishments would be: he would lose his license as a therapist, lose his job, and never work in the field again. There is no jail time.
That was what I found in my research, yes.
 

hysepReC

Active Member
Feb 16, 2022
980
3,542
I like the skill/perk system for the most part but the honorable tree does not make much sense to me. What does sex in public, bondage or roleplaying have to do with being honorable? :unsure:

Also, it would have been nice if there was an alternative route for Lea like with some of the other girls. I got kicked off her path in my playthrough because i didn't have enough honorable points.
 
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