VN Ren'Py Abandoned Oath of Loyalty [Ch. 10] [Silk Ari/REV]

[Swordsman83]

There's a problem with you comparison though, namely that Movie Studios are backed by Producers and companies with money that sponsor the film and expect a return on their investment. That's not what's going on here. At most what your investors get for their money is access to the movie as it's being produced. It's not like they see money back on future sales. Secondly, you're talking about wages, and wages are an expectation of a job working for a boss. But you're self employed when you work on a game. The people who subscribe to you are not obligated to meet what you consider to be a livable wage, they are donating their money in belief of your project.

So again, while it's sad that you aren't at the point where this can be your full time job, it's not the responsibility of your players and patrons to make it so. Donations are not obligations.

It works like this:
You create a game because you want to do it, you ask for money to help fund the creation and earn some money for yourself, but the decision to create it in the first place was yours. So there was no one in the background with money saying "Make this for us".

Which is the opposite of how big game studios or movie studios work. There, the artists are not in control of the project and they're paid by someone else to create it.

You have to stop thinking that you somehow deserve minimum wage for your projects. You are not employed by the Patrons. They don't owe you a set amount. You should be grateful you get anything at all.

Lets look at it from the other side of the coin:
The consumer.

If a patron donates 10 dollars a month to you every month, within 7 months of development they could have bought a major title game from a triple A developer. If your game takes 2 years or more to develop, that's over 240 dollars of their money they've spent on a SINGLE UNFINISHED GAME.

Because not only are they paying to play your game, they're paying the development costs as well.

So when you say you need to reach a certain "per month" amount before starting work on a project, yes, you are holding it hostage for more money. Money no one is obligated to give you and you are setting a restriction on a project only you and your partner are responsible for creating.

If you want to create it, do it. If you don't, then don't.

Do not put it on the players to bribe you enough to do it. If you want to create it, then you'll do it on your own or not at all. It's not up to us, it's up to you.

well said. or it doesn't hit a certain amount of money within a time period, the game will be cancelled.

the game

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is in danger of becoming that.

 

[PrettyWolfy]

Updated thread with Russian translation for version 0.10

 

[RoadWulf]

well said. or it doesn't hit a certain amount of money within a time period, the game will be cancelled.

the game

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is in danger of becoming that.

Yeah it was surprising to me because the two situations basically happened within days of each other.

 

[Silk_Ari]

This horse will never die. I don't understand why people think putting a goal is such a strange thing. We didnt invent the concept...every freaking patreon page has one. First, go read our goal, we've updated it to clear confusion. Secondly, I don't know why it's so hard to understand that we're working on another game...so what do you want? We can delete our "Goal" and just say we'll get to it some day... God knows when... or we can say, hey guys, listen, if we reach this amount of money, we'll be able to work on 2 games and give you OOL updates on the regular as well as UHA updates on the regular... Why is that so hard to understand? Man alive.

 

[Sergent]

This horse will never die. I don't understand why people think putting a goal is such a strange thing. We didnt invent the concept...every freaking patreon page has one. First, go read our goal, we've updated it to clear confusion. Secondly, I don't know why it's so hard to understand that we're working on another game...so what do you want? We can delete our "Goal" and just say we'll get to it some day... God knows when... or we can say, hey guys, listen, if we reach this amount of money, we'll be able to work on 2 games and give you OOL updates on the regular as well as UHA updates on the regular... Why is that so hard to understand? Man alive.

Because this is a patreon, and not an office where a fixed salary is issued every month. And donates are gratitude from the players to the developers, and not payment for their working time.

 

[Silk_Ari]

Because this is a patreon, and not an office where a fixed salary is issued every month. And donates are gratitude from the players to the developers, and not payment for their working time.

"Their working time" is the issue at hand. More money from support means more working time available. Less money means less working time available and the development has to be done on found time. In simpler terms, the ability to work on a game is directly correlated to the support available. Patreon IS actually the salary for many DEVS who have the support required to actually work full time on their games, so your comment is irrelevant and uninformed.

 

[Sergent]

"Their working time" is the issue at hand. More money from support means more working time available. Less money means less working time available and the development has to be done on found time. In simpler terms, the ability to work on a game is directly correlated to the support available. Patreon IS actually the salary for many DEVS who have the support required to actually work full time on their games, so your comment is irrelevant and uninformed.

And your ultimatum is appropriate, right? Now you have 125 subscribers to whom you offer to pay for waiting for new subscribers who may never come. A month has passed since your ultimatum and I don't see much excitement or a queue of people who are ready to invest money not even in your game, but in waiting for new half-subscribers of your game. On the contrary, on the day of the ultimatum, your monthly income was around five hundred, now you have slipped to four hundred. One of your games is abandoned, the second is frozen indefinitely... Do you really think that with such a reputation there will be a sufficient number of people willing to make the number of their joint monetary investments last up to two thousand? I personally doubt this, and the falling number of your monthly income only confirms this.

 

[quberock]

"Their working time" is the issue at hand. More money from support means more working time available. Less money means less working time available and the development has to be done on found time. In simpler terms, the ability to work on a game is directly correlated to the support available. Patreon IS actually the salary for many DEVS who have the support required to actually work full time on their games, so your comment is irrelevant and uninformed.

Well, as much as I understand your point of view, I think it's a bit ungratefull for the patreons that already pledged, expecting the game to be fully complete someday. It's nice to start another one, but why not finish this one first ?
This is exactly why I am reluctant to be a patreon to game developers who don't complete their games.
There should be an option to give a defined amount once the game is complete, like when you buy an ordinary game, as would a consumer do.
That being said, I hope you'll reach your goal and be able to continue the good work.

 

[whichone]

Silk_Ari Dude, at this point you're just feeding trolls.
Stop replying to the idiots & they'll soon STFU, once they get over being so butt-hurt because the game they do not pay for is not being continued atm.
They'll find another game to pirate, that they can behave like such entitled twats about.

I don't pay for your game, I pirate it. Let me tell you how to run things with it.
No. You have no right to.
Fuck off.

This is exactly why I am reluctant to be a patreon to game developers who don't complete their games.

This is a bit "chicken/egg".
Yes, if devs don't complete games then supporting them is risky.
But, if people don't support them by becoming patrons, then why would/how can they complete a project which is not bringing enough financial recompense?

I think it's a bit ungratefull for the patreons that already pledged, expecting the game to be fully complete someday.

A "patron" is just someone who gives financial support.
They are not shareholders, or employers & are not entitled to a finished product.
If that's what they "expect", then they need to manage their own expectations better.
A "patron" is not held at gunpoint.
It's a choice which they make. If they are not happy with the situation, or the product, they can withdraw their support at any time.

 

[lordfridge9]

Huh, when did this get completed?

 

[Anik840]

Got a few requests for this one and I like the game as well. Enjoy the Walkthrough!

Edit: Updated to Ch. .10

You can find this and all my other content here:

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If [Ruth+1] >4 marcy fuck what is this ruth+1 then greater then 4 are you confused

 

[whichone]

Huh, when did this get completed?

July 16th was OP update.

 

[Silk_Ari]

Silk_Ari Dude, at this point you're just feeding trolls.
Stop replying to the idiots & they'll soon STFU, once they get over being so butt-hurt because the game they do not pay for is not being continued atm.
They'll find another game to pirate, that they can behave like such entitled twats about.

yes, yes I know... somehow I keep getting sucked in thinking maybe they have an argument or some kind of point, and then 15 minutes later, Im like...wtf am I doing?

 

[IdleGuy]

Silk_Ari have you put up Oath on Steam? That might be an additional revenue stream if it gets past the greenlight.

 

[Silk_Ari]

Silk_Ari have you put up Oath on Steam? That might be an additional revenue stream if it gets past the greenlight.

in the works

 

[holybaby02]

Android port please compress what new ?

 

[Smarmint]

Sad news. As soon as I played OOL, I became a subscriber, because I really enjoyed the game. It had, what I think, is an interesting new take on the mafia genre, and I genuinely liked many of the characters. Plus, the writing and story is quite compelling.

I don't think all the bad-mouthing of the dev is fair. If you are here, it is because you enjoyed the game at some point. Nothing requires that HSA continues development of OOL forever. Just like with any job, if it isn't what you had hoped, or you aren't getting the promotion you think you deserve, you can always leave and find another job. Which is basically what HSA is doing.

Plus, devs don't have to hang around here on F95 and shoot the shit with all of us, so really, we should appreciation devs that are active in the community, and appreciate their work to make a game we all enjoy, rather than make ridiculous assertions of holding their game hostage.

To provide another analogy, if you are selling a car, and you think it is worth $12,000, and the dealer wants to pay $8,000. If you leave with your car, are you holding it hostage? Of course not, so this argument makes no logical sense at all.

Game development isn't forced labor. However, I can't help but wish that devs would commit, at some point, to finishing their game, at whatever speed they can manage. But if their heart isn't in it, and they don't enjoy doing it for their own personal reasons, it isn't going to happen.

But, that is life, and I understand Silk Ari, that you rather focus your attentions on your more profitable game, that you have more long term interest in, especially if you aren't getting the level of support you feel you want.

Still, I can't help buy feel quite disappointed that I won't be able to see the story to its conclusion, or spend more time with your characters and your story.

Good luck. I am afraid finding the magic formula for a game that makes thousands a month, is not easy, is not typical among game developers, and doesn't really have any rhyme or reason. Many games inferior to OOL, in my opinion, make 4 or 5 times what this game makes, and many that are of similar quality make even less.

 

[Silk_Ari]

We said we will continue the story, it's just a matter of WHEN. Right now, we prefer to work on UHA for several reasons, mainly because we are trying new concepts and new formats, the goal is to grow our skills and our portfolio of games. The sad truth is we can't do BOTH. game development at the same time, so we're concetrating on getting another IP our there. to generate more interest in ALL our games, eventually. we will get to chapter 2....the whole point is not IF it's WHEN.

5 posts later... dev sucks.. bribe, hostage etc. etc.

 

[Sergent]

We said we will continue the story, it's just a matter of WHEN. Right now, we prefer to work on UHA for several reasons, mainly because we are trying new concepts and new formats, the goal is to grow our skills and our portfolio of games. The sad truth is we can't do BOTH. game development at the same time, so we're concetrating on getting another IP our there. to generate more interest in ALL our games, eventually. we will get to chapter 2....the whole point is not IF it's WHEN.

5 posts later... dev sucks.. bribe, hostage etc. etc.

Did you think that after one ultimatum, you will simply be paid five times more? No, you really hoped for this, right?

 

[ggvplanayagg]

Wish dev better luck in the new project, really enjoyed playing OoL!