No real sandbox elements. Should probably loose the sandbox tag and get the point and click tag instead for the phone and laptop sequences.
- Thread starter baconsmoke
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-CookieMonster666-
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Those aren't really point-and-click either, though. P&Cs are where you hunt around for clues, hidden items, etc. There's none of that in this game, either. Clicking a few times to simulate getting something set up on an in-game computer doesn't constitute point-and-click gameplay. This isn't like Broken Sword or Primordia or Adam Wolfe or whatever.
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What -CookieMonster666- said. A
That being said, I'm mighty fine with this being tagged
point&clickishly 'free-roam' area doesn't make a sandbox. There is no nonlinear gameplay, no picking nor skipping events at several locations. Content will be missed by binary choice only. And all of those choices are menu based, like in most VNs done in Ren'Py. The game simply requires one to click on a small number of easily understood hotspots to reach some of the content.That being said, I'm mighty fine with this being tagged
sandbox. Less people getting their knickers in a twist about allegedly having been tricked into a mechanic that's not even there to begin with…baconsmoke
Another small thing I noticed. When MC is talking with Elizabeth's colleagues, Isobel says: "Magic is like physics. Every reaction has an opposite reaction". I suppose it's accidental mistype, every action has an opposite reaction after all.
Another small thing I noticed. When MC is talking with Elizabeth's colleagues, Isobel says: "Magic is like physics. Every reaction has an opposite reaction". I suppose it's accidental mistype, every action has an opposite reaction after all.
-CookieMonster666-
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Unless, of course, the "action" is a reaction itself. Then the reaction could also have a reaction.
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Gave you a reaction for your reaction to their reaction to the 'every reaction has a[…] reaction' line.Unless, of course, the "action" is a reaction itself. Then the reaction could also have a reaction.
HogRocket
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Unless, of course, the "action" is a reaction itself. Then the reaction could also have a reaction.
Gave you a reaction for your reaction to their reaction to the 'every reaction has a[…] reaction' line.
-CookieMonster666-
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This game is hella long lol. The dev must be a mad man to output this much content in what, 7 months?
I think I'm like 75% through the game. I just have one complaint. The sex scenes are underwhelming. As soon as you get to the animation, the scene is over because there is no more sex dialogue after that. You cycle through a few animations and then he cums immediately after. This is so frustrating because the dev does an amazing job setting up the scenes. I don't know about everyone else, but I sure as hell will not sit there and fap to a textless animation loop. The strength of the VN medium (in regards to actual sex scenes) is that you can mix sex dialogues with the visuals to create a strong mental stimulus. It's a mistake to just play some animation and expect that to carry the scene. It's super anticlimactic, imo. There should be dialogues to go along with the animation. There could be dialogues in between animations and positions. There should be more positions and angles.
The writing hooked me immediately, and I think I am just getting to the good parts where you can actually pick your route. That's kinda exciting and this type of story is right up my alley. I just wish the scenes were fappable because we spent SOOO long setting things up with all the characters and it seems like it's about to get steamy for a corruption fan like me.
One detail that I want to make note of. If the sealing of the monster by the maiden and 2 witches is the turning point where MC's inner desires could start winning out, this could be stated more explicitly during the choice on Elizabeth right after that incident. The one where you can test your glamour on her and then walk away. It might be good to write a few lines of internal monologue about the MC struggling to keep his demons in check after the monster sealing thing. It kinda makes no sense to be an asshole to Elizabeth all of a sudden, and the MC must have realized this too. It would ease the transition from forced good boy MC into someone a little more indulgent if the MC had a bit of an internal struggle during this particular choice.
I think I'm like 75% through the game. I just have one complaint. The sex scenes are underwhelming. As soon as you get to the animation, the scene is over because there is no more sex dialogue after that. You cycle through a few animations and then he cums immediately after. This is so frustrating because the dev does an amazing job setting up the scenes. I don't know about everyone else, but I sure as hell will not sit there and fap to a textless animation loop. The strength of the VN medium (in regards to actual sex scenes) is that you can mix sex dialogues with the visuals to create a strong mental stimulus. It's a mistake to just play some animation and expect that to carry the scene. It's super anticlimactic, imo. There should be dialogues to go along with the animation. There could be dialogues in between animations and positions. There should be more positions and angles.
The writing hooked me immediately, and I think I am just getting to the good parts where you can actually pick your route. That's kinda exciting and this type of story is right up my alley. I just wish the scenes were fappable because we spent SOOO long setting things up with all the characters and it seems like it's about to get steamy for a corruption fan like me.
One detail that I want to make note of. If the sealing of the monster by the maiden and 2 witches is the turning point where MC's inner desires could start winning out, this could be stated more explicitly during the choice on Elizabeth right after that incident. The one where you can test your glamour on her and then walk away. It might be good to write a few lines of internal monologue about the MC struggling to keep his demons in check after the monster sealing thing. It kinda makes no sense to be an asshole to Elizabeth all of a sudden, and the MC must have realized this too. It would ease the transition from forced good boy MC into someone a little more indulgent if the MC had a bit of an internal struggle during this particular choice.
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Bug report. There is d19_renee and day19_renee variables that are being used interchangeably and this causes problems in the script.
Plus, even if you use the console to get past the errors regarding this variable, the dev forgot about the route where you don't talk to Renee and the MC acts like he did talk to her. This is retconned in a kinda amusing way later in the story. It probably would make sense to go back and fix it properly at some point, unless it was really part of the plot and not a retcon bandaid fix.
Also, when you reject lily, I believe the game is suppsoed to set her relationship to -99, but it didn't do this. You need to use console to enter "Lily_Relationship = -99" after you reject her the first time.
Also, the laptop pictures are bugged on the 2nd and 3rd pic you get. The latest picture is invisible. You can click on the space where it would be and see the pic, but you cannot see the title of the picture that you received last.
"hide d21_sophia_23a" is needed if you reject Sophia a second time. Otherwise, her picture will come up every time there is a transition to black screen.
Not really a bug, but I think if you reject Lily the second time... Brieanne should make some comment on it during the boat trip? She should have felt her anguish.
If you reject Fina the first time and then accept her during the 2nd chance, she still talks about "Wives and mistresses" during day 25 text msg. The wives and mistresses talk only happens if you accept her the first time, if I am remembering things right.
*I think this and some other issues I feel is present in the routing decisions stems from an unfortunate decision in coding. I feel like it's a mistake to base the routes on some set values of relationships (>= 1 vs 0 vs -99 vs -100). It would be much better to use flags for this so that you can reference past decisions in the script.
Plus, even if you use the console to get past the errors regarding this variable, the dev forgot about the route where you don't talk to Renee and the MC acts like he did talk to her. This is retconned in a kinda amusing way later in the story. It probably would make sense to go back and fix it properly at some point, unless it was really part of the plot and not a retcon bandaid fix.
Also, when you reject lily, I believe the game is suppsoed to set her relationship to -99, but it didn't do this. You need to use console to enter "Lily_Relationship = -99" after you reject her the first time.
Also, the laptop pictures are bugged on the 2nd and 3rd pic you get. The latest picture is invisible. You can click on the space where it would be and see the pic, but you cannot see the title of the picture that you received last.
"hide d21_sophia_23a" is needed if you reject Sophia a second time. Otherwise, her picture will come up every time there is a transition to black screen.
Not really a bug, but I think if you reject Lily the second time... Brieanne should make some comment on it during the boat trip? She should have felt her anguish.
If you reject Fina the first time and then accept her during the 2nd chance, she still talks about "Wives and mistresses" during day 25 text msg. The wives and mistresses talk only happens if you accept her the first time, if I am remembering things right.
*I think this and some other issues I feel is present in the routing decisions stems from an unfortunate decision in coding. I feel like it's a mistake to base the routes on some set values of relationships (>= 1 vs 0 vs -99 vs -100). It would be much better to use flags for this so that you can reference past decisions in the script.
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And just a PSA for others who are interested in understanding the routes for some of the girls (as far as I can tell). This is kind of a scatter brained post that I wrote while playing and diving the script, so you should read the whole thing before reaching your conclusions. Beware of spoilers though.
Also, there seems to be 2 sets of girls that are mutually exclusive (Kinda. Maybe the game will let you get the other girl at a later time). Going to the park = Helen route vs going for ice scream = Deena route. Going up to the overpass = Meili route vs going through the tunnel = Violet route.
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Hmmm, ok getting more technical, I'm a bit uncertain if you can maintain a fallen follower or something. Basically, when you reject a girl for the first time the relationship variable for that girl is set at -99. This is when they get desperate and try to appeal to you however they can. You get a second choice later that basically lets you take them back (set rel to 1), keep them in your life but as a friend (rel set to 0), or reject them fully again (rel = -100). At least in the case of Fina, if you go for -100, it leads to a bad end. Other girls, I'm not sure what will happen.
I've played up to day 21 right now, and was looking around the scripts to see what's going on with the variables. But just from a cursory glance at how the variables are utilized, I don't expect any difference between accepting a girl the first time, or accepting them during the second chance to set their relationship back to +1. If the routes just converge like this, it is kind of a bummer for me, but it obviously helps the dev cut down on work load. I will play some more to see if doing -100 relationship with some of the girls lead to anything interesting or if they are just mostly cut from the story. I could look at rel = 0 as well.
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OK did some more diving in the script. Here is what "Fallen" really means. They disappear from the mortal realm, likely getting cut out of the story unless there is some alternate thing the dev is planning. That is the case for Sophia at least. I thought fallen would be like a corrupted girl that will do anything for you, but it's kinda like a bad end to her route, if not the game, by the way things are progressing. So maybe going for that -100 relationship is not the greatest idea even if you want some dark stuff. Rel = 0 seems like just a crappier version of Rel ≥ 1, so I'm not too sure about that one either.
Anyways, I was making the post as I was playing and diving through the script, so sorry for the confusion. The take away is that rejecting them the first time leads to some interesting changes, but rejecting them again the second time probably just makes them suffer and not in the sexy way. Accept them the second time, and it will converge back into the normal route, as far as I can tell.
And it is increasingly being apparent to me that the MC is going to be railroaded into the good guy for quite some time. Maybe only the final ending choice would really make a difference, if it will even then. That said, there is nuance to this MC, even when he is trying to be a good guy, so I am able to enjoy it. You just can't make him indulge in his darkness which can be quite frustrating if you are into that.
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Also, there seems to be 2 sets of girls that are mutually exclusive (Kinda. Maybe the game will let you get the other girl at a later time). Going to the park = Helen route vs going for ice scream = Deena route. Going up to the overpass = Meili route vs going through the tunnel = Violet route.
edit:
Hmmm, ok getting more technical, I'm a bit uncertain if you can maintain a fallen follower or something. Basically, when you reject a girl for the first time the relationship variable for that girl is set at -99. This is when they get desperate and try to appeal to you however they can. You get a second choice later that basically lets you take them back (set rel to 1), keep them in your life but as a friend (rel set to 0), or reject them fully again (rel = -100). At least in the case of Fina, if you go for -100, it leads to a bad end. Other girls, I'm not sure what will happen.
I've played up to day 21 right now, and was looking around the scripts to see what's going on with the variables. But just from a cursory glance at how the variables are utilized, I don't expect any difference between accepting a girl the first time, or accepting them during the second chance to set their relationship back to +1. If the routes just converge like this, it is kind of a bummer for me, but it obviously helps the dev cut down on work load. I will play some more to see if doing -100 relationship with some of the girls lead to anything interesting or if they are just mostly cut from the story. I could look at rel = 0 as well.
edit:
OK did some more diving in the script. Here is what "Fallen" really means. They disappear from the mortal realm, likely getting cut out of the story unless there is some alternate thing the dev is planning. That is the case for Sophia at least. I thought fallen would be like a corrupted girl that will do anything for you, but it's kinda like a bad end to her route, if not the game, by the way things are progressing. So maybe going for that -100 relationship is not the greatest idea even if you want some dark stuff. Rel = 0 seems like just a crappier version of Rel ≥ 1, so I'm not too sure about that one either.
Anyways, I was making the post as I was playing and diving through the script, so sorry for the confusion. The take away is that rejecting them the first time leads to some interesting changes, but rejecting them again the second time probably just makes them suffer and not in the sexy way. Accept them the second time, and it will converge back into the normal route, as far as I can tell.
And it is increasingly being apparent to me that the MC is going to be railroaded into the good guy for quite some time. Maybe only the final ending choice would really make a difference, if it will even then. That said, there is nuance to this MC, even when he is trying to be a good guy, so I am able to enjoy it. You just can't make him indulge in his darkness which can be quite frustrating if you are into that.
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Alright, sorry for the quadruple post, but I feel like it's better than one long ass post about different topics.
I am almost done with the current release, and I believe I got a pretty good grasp on the game design at this point. I just want to point out that I feel like it was a huge mistake to use a single variable per girl to determine her route status. For example, Sophia_Relationship >= 1 means it's a love/romance/sexual relationship. = 0 means you friendzone her. -99 means you rejected her once and made her desperate. -100 means you rejected her twice and she is fallen (very bad outcome). Now let's say you reject her once and then accept her the second time. The game has no way of knowing if you rejected her the first time at this point because the relationship is just set to 1. This is particularly frustrating because the flavor dialogue during the 2nd chance encounter (after you reject her once) is one where they want to be your whore, slave, or whatever you need just to have your affection. This nuance will be lost entirely because there is no way to track it. It also leads to narrative inconsistencies like the case with Fina's text msg on D25 and MC thinking he kissed Sophia even if you didn't.
The routes being converged back into one is a decision I can understand, but the fact that the game can't remember the sequence of events is unfortunate, even if you don't make use of it. Even if you don't make a true separate branch, you could make flavor text references and such if you could track their past status. It would have been much better to determine routes based on flags imo.
edit: I do think we will just have to roll with it though. Changing the code right now would basically break saves and require a new playthrough and the game is quite lengthy already.
I am almost done with the current release, and I believe I got a pretty good grasp on the game design at this point. I just want to point out that I feel like it was a huge mistake to use a single variable per girl to determine her route status. For example, Sophia_Relationship >= 1 means it's a love/romance/sexual relationship. = 0 means you friendzone her. -99 means you rejected her once and made her desperate. -100 means you rejected her twice and she is fallen (very bad outcome). Now let's say you reject her once and then accept her the second time. The game has no way of knowing if you rejected her the first time at this point because the relationship is just set to 1. This is particularly frustrating because the flavor dialogue during the 2nd chance encounter (after you reject her once) is one where they want to be your whore, slave, or whatever you need just to have your affection. This nuance will be lost entirely because there is no way to track it. It also leads to narrative inconsistencies like the case with Fina's text msg on D25 and MC thinking he kissed Sophia even if you didn't.
The routes being converged back into one is a decision I can understand, but the fact that the game can't remember the sequence of events is unfortunate, even if you don't make use of it. Even if you don't make a true separate branch, you could make flavor text references and such if you could track their past status. It would have been much better to determine routes based on flags imo.
edit: I do think we will just have to roll with it though. Changing the code right now would basically break saves and require a new playthrough and the game is quite lengthy already.
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GentlemanCorpse
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Uff... I am at day 18 and would just stop with everything, if I would be the MC.
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-CookieMonster666-
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Yeah, it's kind of the point of the MC.
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GentlemanCorpse
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Sure, everybody would be happy in this situation, but only if you can take advantage without doubts. And thinking "at least he is happy" but are the girls? would they be happier without being "forced" to be with him? You can really get lost in those thoughts...
-CookieMonster666-
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But that's actually kind of covered in the game. They are heavily influenced (which you could also definitely argue is wrong), but they are not actually forced. They are extremely drawn to the MC but ultimately they have the choice whether to give in to their impulses, just as the MC has the choice whether to let them. The other "comfort" is that this is beyond the MC's control and he's not evil because of what's happening. He never chose to have the power, and he doesn't have control over its influence. So unless he specifically decides to abuse it and become a heartless bastard, I think he should feel better about it. I'm not saying he should be OK with it happening, just that he shouldn't beat himself up over something he can't control.Sure, everybody would be happy in this situation, but only if you can take advantage without doubts. And thinking "at least he is happy" but are the girls? would they be happier without being "forced" to be with him? You can really get lost in those thoughts...
GentlemanCorpse
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They have a choice? Ah.. okay.. at day 18, where I am, it sounded different with Elizabeth, she sounded like she cannot fight against this feeling.. But, true, he didn't chose this "power" and he cannot change it really. That's actually a really good
conscience comfort... Thanks.