VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[Turret]

This is not true, in ALL paths even the ones where Lena is completely simping for him he blacklists her before meeting with her. That means in ALL PATHS he intended to have have blackmail over Lena if she refused him.

Once again, the various paths we can take are different realities. They are not karmically interconnected, but each a reality of their own. There are those realities where Seymour blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not.
You simply cannot call Seymour a blackmailer in a path where he never did blackmail Lena, only based on that one of his alter egos did blackmail an alter ego of Lena in another path. They are different Lenas and Seymours.

As for some of the practices in the business world (and modelling is one of the worst today), I find them repugnant on a decency level, but it is a really unfortunate situation that times in business have changed.
As I mentioned before, around 40 years ago there where still a couple business areas, at least here in Germany, where deals were done and followed up by handshake, because your word was your bond. It is very unfortunate that this times are over.

And going by the typical practises in the modelling world today, Seymour is hardly a bad guy. There are many influential movers and shakers, men and women alike, who are worse than him by a margin.
It is not nice what he does in some paths, but the world is not a nice place in most places. My definition of bad got calibrated around the turn of the century when we sat in the Balkans, trying to keep the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croatians from killing each other more than they already did at the time.

 

[MF_DOOM]

Lena is not comfortable posing without a camera and he doesn't give her a choice in the matter. He tells her that by signing the contract she "agreed" to pose for him, pretending not to know the difference between modeling (implies the manufacture of the artistic product or promotion of the physical product) and performing a strip / sex show (which he tells Lena to do).

Well, it's her problem she signed a legally binding contract without representation. How is that blackmail?

 

[fatpussy123]

Once again, the various paths we can take are different realities. They are not karmically interconnected, but each a reality of their own. There are those realities where Seymour blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not.
You simply cannot call Seymour a blackmailer in a path where he never did blackmail Lena, only based on that one of his alter egos did blackmail an alter ego of Lena in another path. They are different Lenas and Seymours.

As for some of the practices in the business world (and modelling is one of the worst today), I find them repugnant on a decency level, but it is a really unfortunate situation that times in business have changed.
As I mentioned before, around 40 years ago there where still a couple business areas, at least here in Germany, where deals were done and followed up by handshake, because your word was your bond. It is very unfortunate that this times are over.

And going by the typical practises in the modelling world today, Seymour is hardly a bad guy. There are many influential movers and shakers, men and women alike, who are worse than him by a margin.
It is not nice what he does in some paths, but the world is not a nice place in most places. My definition of bad got calibrated around the turn of the century when we sat in the Balkans, trying to keep the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croatians from killing each other more than they already did at the time.

In every reality he blacklists her and goes into the meeting with the intention to blackmail her. He's a bad person in the same way a guy who goes on a date with a girl with the intention to rape if she refuses sex with him is. Yes he doesn't blackmail Lena in some paths, but he always has the intention to. If he always has intention to that makes him a bad person, he might not be criminally liable, but that was never the point. The first few posts were making the case that he is the bad guy in the story, which he is.

 

[BloodyMares]

Once again, the various paths we can take are different realities. They are not karmically interconnected, but each a reality of their own. There are those realities where Seymour blackmails Lena and there are those where he does not.
You simply cannot call Seymour a blackmailer in a path where he never did blackmail Lena, only based on that one of his alter egos did blackmail an alter ego of Lena in another path. They are different Lenas and Seymours.

As for some of the practices in the business world (and modelling is one of the worst today), I find them repugnant on a decency level, but it is a really unfortunate situation that times in business have changed.
As I mentioned before, around 40 years ago there where still a couple business areas, at least here in Germany, where deals were done and followed up by handshake, because your word was your bond. It is very unfortunate that this times are over.

And going by the typical practises in the modelling world today, Seymour is hardly a bad guy. There are many influential movers and shakers, men and women alike, who are worse than him by a margin.
It is not nice what he does in some paths, but the world is not a nice place in most places. My definition of bad got calibrated around the turn of the century when we sat in the Balkans, trying to keep the Serbs, Bosniaks and Croatians from killing each other more than they already did at the time.

He may not always blackmail Lena but he always blacklists Lena, thus Danny shutting her off, the Gallery guy refusing to give her more gigs, and the restaurant firing her. That happens on every path and Seymour is behind it. That may not be blackmail but it's emotional and financial manipulation for one purpose: make the victim the most vulnerable and more likely to accept the new reality. This type of behavior is very common with cults and its leaders preying on those who are most vulnerable, socially isolated, and unlikely to seek help (or get it if they do seek it).

 

[BloodyMares]

Well, it's her problem she signed a legally binding contract without representation. How is that blackmail?

"Modeling" doesn't legally bind her to be treated like an escort. She is legally free not to proceed unless there's a camera and there will be the artistic product in the end. Yet he blackmails her that if she keeps resisting, their contract will be considered broken and she'll lose all of the jobs and won't be compensated for her time, thus blackmailing her. Don't have to be a lawyer to win this case in court, Seymour did use the term "modeling" explicitly, he can't reimagine the term to fit his needs and win the case. He'd lose because of his ignorance. If he was smarter, he'd use the term "performing" which doesn't require a camera, only the audience (even if it's one person).

 

[MF_DOOM]

"Modeling" doesn't legally bind her to be treated like an escort. She is legally free not to proceed unless there's a camera and there will be the artistic product in the end. Yet he blackmails her that if she keeps resisting, their contract will be considered broken and she'll lose all of the jobs and won't be compensated for her time, thus blackmailing her. Don't have to be a lawyer to win this case in court, Seymour did use the term "modeling" explicitly, he can't reimagine the term to fit his needs and win the case. He'd lose because of his ignorance. If he was smarter, he'd use the term "performing" which doesn't require a camera, only the audience (even if it's one person).

Modeling is not exclusive to a camera, what about cat walks? Painting? Sculpting? I bet I could think of some more.

 

[BloodyMares]

Modeling is not exclusive to a camera, what about cat walks? Painting? Sculpting? I bet I could think of some more.

Neither of those elements are present during Lena's posing session with Seymour. If there's no camera, there'd need to be a canvas. If there's no canvas, then materials for sculpting which Seymour does none of.

Cat-walks promote the product (clothing / jewelry / anything else) to a buyer. Seymour is not a party interested in buying anything Lena is wearing. And even if he would be, the legally-binding document should specify the category of the items that would be promoted. If, say, it's the shoes and accessories (that he makes Lena wear), then they would have to be listed in the contract. And there would need to be an interested buyer if it's a private viewing like an auction, or there would need to be a public promotional event where any attendant gets to see the product on the model. Plus there would need to be a contract with a manufacturer / seller of the item (in this case the shoes).

So, Lena doesn't create anything artistic, nor does she promote anything to anybody because there's no contract with any of the company asking Seymour to promote their items (to himself?). Any lawyer would be able to prove it as at least a sexual exploitation / fraud if not an outright abuse.

 

[mommysboiii]

guys guys i think seymour is the antagonist to and obiously not a good guy but he is not real calm down there is nothing to disprove or justify seymour dosent exist !!!

and he gives the story good tension and twist potential and a worthy rival next to axel

 

[fatpussy123]

guys guys i think seymour is the antagonist to and obiously not a good guy but he is not real calm down there is nothing to disprove or justify seymour dosent exist !!!

and he gives the story good tension and twist potential and a worthy rival next to axel

Yep. In the context of the game he is a bad person, but his scenes are also hot in a sub Lena run. Similar in that regard to Axel I guess.

 

[dolfe67]

Debate about if Seymour is a good guy or not is funny, but we can find funnier subjects. Let's talk again about cucking Ian

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Debate about if Seymour is a good guy or not is funny, but we can find funnier subjects. Let's talk again about cucking Ian

 

[MF_DOOM]

If only there's an option to play songs in the café. The game couldn't possibly give us that scenario.

Very common ≠ ethical and good, but someone else has beaten me to the punch.

Your clowning managed to keep this thread from being a cuck for a while, so thank you for your service.

Also, Seymour is a good guy for cucking Ian.

 

[Joshy92]

Debate about if Seymour is a good guy or not is funny, but we can find funnier subjects. Let's talk again about cucking Ian

Don't worry My Ian will be mega cucked
And he will like it by golly

 

[2016er]

Hi, is it not possible for Ian charectar to date Holly romantically and coercing Cindy to cheat on Wade with him?

 

[lipe2410]

Hi, is it not possible for Ian charectar to date Holly romantically and coercing Cindy to cheat on Wade with him?

No. At least, not yet.

 

[MF_DOOM]

Hi, is it not possible for Ian charectar to date Holly romantically and coercing Cindy to cheat on Wade with him?

You have to choose between Wades birthdate and going away with Holly, each of these events trigger the start of a romance so its one or the other.

 

[2016er]

No. At least, not yet.

Thanks, I need a romantic partner for my Ian charectar, but I want to keep the affair with Cindy running.(didn't fuck Alison or Emma at all, friendship is high with holly but not in romantic sense and finally don't want to date Lena whom I turned into a whore
Is there any discussion regarding future prospect of "Nat" charectar?

 

[BloodyMares]

If only there's an option to play songs in the café. The game couldn't possibly give us that scenario.

Unfortunately Lena is railroaded into posing there anyway because Seymour made the Gallery guy stop working with her. However, it happens off-screen either in Ch 10 or Ch 11 prologue, Lena just casually says "I also started posing at the cafe", not really taking into account her attitude towards Ed being pervy. I remember in the early chapters she was very serious about keeping her modeling separate from her day job, but looks like Eva forgot about it and made Lena change her mind after the one time where he visited her at the gallery. Not to mention the plot hole where Lena could keep her modeling a total secret from both Ed and Molly, thus preventing Ed from perving on her Peoplegram. Which makes me wonder: How was Ed able to stalk Lena's Peoplegram and learn about the life drawing if she didn't tell him about being a nude model in the first place? And funnily enough, Lena never acts surprised after he says he just saw the announcement on her Peoplegram and she just shrugs it off and continues with the day instead of calling him out on being a creepy stalker and sending him away (or at least promising to have a follow-up talk at work).

 

[2016er]

You have to choose between Wades birthdate and going away with Holly, each of these events trigger the start of a romance so its one or the other.

Yes, disappointed when that happen.

And with Clark in the field seems like I have to let her go

 

[2016er]

Unfortunately Lena is railroaded into posing there anyway because Seymour made the Gallery guy stop working with her. However, it happens off-screen either in Ch 10 or Ch 11 prologue, Lena just casually says "I also started posing at the cafe", not really taking into account her attitude towards Ed being pervy. I remember in the early chapters she was very serious about keeping her modeling separate from her day job, but looks like Eva forgot about it and made Lena change her mind after the one time where he visited her at the gallery. Not to mention the plot hole where Lena could keep her modeling a total secret from both Ed and Molly, thus preventing Ed from perving on her Peoplegram. Which makes me wonder: How was Ed able to stalk Lena's Peoplegram and learn about the life drawing if she didn't tell him about being a nude model in the first place? And funnily enough, Lena never acts surprised after he says he just saw the announcement on her Peoplegram and she just shrugs it off and continues with the day instead of calling him out on being a creepy stalker and sending him away (or at least promising to have a follow-up talk at work).

Well, Shouldn't Ed could just say that he found her insta by himself? Like we all have curiosities about our coworkers social media profile, isn't? It shouldn't be considered as stalking if Lena's profile is public.