VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[BloodyMares]

That is also what it boils down to for me. We are already limited in the amount of content that can be included in each update, and it is already clear that the complexity of this game will surpass that of GGGB. It is not worth sacrificing variety, content, possibilities and meaningfull interactions in what is already there for the inclusion of something only a select group of people could enjoy.

You see, that is true for ALL optional content that is (or going to be) in the game. It will be enjoyed by only a select group of people. In GGGB I didn't enjoy the Thug or Bimbo routes and probably won't be able to enjoy them, so it means I'm only experiencing 1/3 of the content. I'm sure there are people who were the opposite, and chose to go for Bad Girl Ash only, and trailed off from the Good Ash path pretty early on. The same is true for this game.

Just go back a couple of pages to see lots of arguing whether they prefer Ian or Lena. Most of the people enjoy both, but there are quite a few people who prefer only Ian and aren't interested in Lena's content (or just don't like the fact that she's playable), and those who are only here for Lena and skip most of the Ian's scenes. Someone is going to like Alison/Emma/Holly, others won't. Somebody is going to play as slutty model Lena, others will opt for a caring songwriter. Robert is pretty much universally disliked character, yet there are quite a few scenes with him, because why not. I'm certain not many would complain if we could trade some development time from Robert's route for at least one gay or bi route for Ian.
So, it all comes down to whether Eva herself would like to include this type of content or not. Or, state that Ian is strictly heterosexual and put the end to this subject. I'll be fine either way.

 

[Amnios]

I think the main issue here is far too many people try to min/max everything, as they feel if they dont then you’re somehow missing out.

even if you followed one route in GGGB you still saw the whole experience (for that route).

 

[BloodyMares]

You sacrifice those attributes in other routes. Eva has already mentioned multiple time how she had to cut content and ideas out of GGGB because of its great complexity, and that that was also why some characters essentially disappeared. When you are working with limitied resources, everything comes with an opportunity cost. Do you really have a hard time understanding that, if, for example, Eva didn't develop the thug route in GGGB, that time could have been directly employed in improving some other route?

IIRC, Eva was only pressured to release each update per month, she wasn't pressured to finish the game at a certain date. The solution to all that would be just to keep releasing monthly updates with whatever content there is, even if the update is a bit short. The continuous storytelling that was in GGGB didn't involve timeline, like days/weeks/months, so she could prolong and milk the story as long as she wanted. If she chose to scrap some routes, it's because she was either tired from it all or because the particular content wasn't fun enough to write for her anymore. So, side content is not to blame, it's all about setting up the priorities.

What about those who wants to see beastiality? What about those who want to see scat? You can call me selfish all you want, but the game cannot appeal to every single fetish or sexual preference.

I'm not sure you're realizing that, but you are using homophobic/anti-LGBT arguments. Like, homophobia 101. I have seen too many of these "arguments" in homophobic places. Not saying you are one, but, just letting you know that this type of language is toxic.

 

[Tierra_Azul]

I'm not sure you're realizing that, but you are using homophobic/anti-LGBT arguments. Like, homophobia 101. I have seen too many of these "arguments" in homophobic places. Not saying you are one, but, just letting you know that this type of language is toxic.

Hmm, Iv'e read his argument several times now, I don't see any homophobic ideas here. Can you point out what part of his argument you feel is homophobic?

 

[BloodyMares]

Hmm, Iv'e read his argument several times now, I don't see any homophobic ideas here. Can you point out what part of his argument you feel is homophobic?

Sexuality is not a fetish and cannot be compared to such underground fetishes as bestiality or scat. Bestiality and scat are usually universally considered disgusting. Comparing homosexuality to these fetishes is another way to say that homosexuality is disgusting which is insulting to every queer person out there.

 

[Tierra_Azul]

Sexuality is not a fetish and cannot be compared to such underground fetishes as bestiality or scat. Bestiality and scat are usually universally considered disgusting. Putting homosexuality to the same group of fetishes is another way to say that homosexuality is disgusting which is insulting to every queer person out there.

Agreed but, he clearly differentiate his argument by seperating "fetish" and "sexual preferance" at the end of his argument. He's talking about two different things at the same time. I feel you are trying to give him opinions he has not put forward.

 

[CassieBare]

1 Will, baby. Eva patched the controversial scene. The Will requirement kinda balances it out.

And there's only 1 Will total for Lena so far, which she either uses for Robert in Ch1 or not. No other ways to gain another before Ch5?

 

[BloodyMares]

Agreed but, he clearly differentiate his argument by seperating "fetish" and "sexual preferance" at the end of his argument. He's talking about two different things at the same time. I feel you are trying to give him opinions he has not put forward.

The separation was after the fact. And the comparison has been made, mentioning fetishes as an argument. After seeing that comparison, it's easy to get "triggered" and disregard the second sentence. Either way, fetishes shouldn't be mentioned in an argument against homosexuality or homosexual content. Definitely not in the same sentence. It leads to confusion and unnecessary negativity.

And there's only 1 Will total for Lena so far, which she either uses for Robert in Ch1 or not. No other ways to gain another before Ch5?

You can also write a perfect song (Real, Tragedy, Abyss) for Lena, for which you get 1 Will. You also get another Will for rejecting Axel (either don't call, don't meet with him or destroy his pictures), but then you probably won't have enough Lust. So, sing a perfect song for your friends.

 

[DatBoit]

IIRC, Eva was only pressured to release each update per month, she wasn't pressured to finish the game at a certain date. The solution to all that would be just to keep releasing monthly updates with whatever content there is, even if the update is a bit short. The continuous storytelling that was in GGGB didn't involve timeline, like days/weeks/months, so she could prolong and milk the story as long as she wanted. If she chose to scrap some routes, it's because she was either tired from it all or because the particular content wasn't fun enough to write for her anymore. So, side content is not to blame, it's all about setting up the priorities.


I'm not sure you're realizing that, but you are using homophobic/anti-LGBT arguments. Like, homophobia 101. I have seen too many of these "arguments" in homophobic places. Not saying you are one, but, just letting you know that this type of language is toxic.

The way I remember it, she had to cut content because she was juggling so many different characters and opportunities. Jasmine, for example, didn't get priority because there were too many other routes that she had to focus on. Yes, she could have kept adding more content and releasing new updates, but at some point, you also want to finish the game and be done with it. The same is probably true for ORS.

As for your other point, I realise that I worded it very poorly. Of course, I am not comparing homosexuality to extreme fetishes such as beastiality and scat. Those are two completely different things. As Tierra_Azul wrote, that was why I used both "sexual preference" and "fetish". However, having that come last might not have been sufficient to make it clear that I am separating them. Either way, the point wasn't the actual fetishes themselves, more that there will always be someone out there with a specific request and that you cannot appeal to all of them.

 

[Princess Groundhog]

The m/m content doesn’t even need to be long and extensive, like an entire route. Earlier I posted an idea how it could work, with Ian looking at Jeremy’s photos and videos on his phone. Ian could either focus on Alison or maybe if his lust or will allows it, on Jeremy’s cock. That would set that flag. But he wouldn’t go down a whole another path. Maybe in some threesomes with another guy there could be some options. It would just be a few extra scenes. I think it would be awesome.

 

[DatBoit]

You see, that is true for ALL optional content that is (or going to be) in the game. It will be enjoyed by only a select group of people. In GGGB I didn't enjoy the Thug or Bimbo routes and probably won't be able to enjoy them, so it means I'm only experiencing 1/3 of the content. I'm sure there are people who were the opposite, and chose to go for Bad Girl Ash only, and trailed off from the Good Ash path pretty early on. The same is true for this game.

Just go back a couple of pages to see lots of arguing whether they prefer Ian or Lena. Most of the people enjoy both, but there are quite a few people who prefer only Ian and aren't interested in Lena's content (or just don't like the fact that she's playable), and those who are only here for Lena and skip most of the Ian's scenes. Someone is going to like Alison/Emma/Holly, others won't. Somebody is going to play as slutty model Lena, others will opt for a caring songwriter. Robert is pretty much universally disliked character, yet there are quite a few scenes with him, because why not. I'm certain not many would complain if we could trade some development time from Robert's route for at least one gay or bi route for Ian.
So, it all comes down to whether Eva herself would like to include this type of content or not. Or, state that Ian is strictly heterosexual and put the end to this subject. I'll be fine either way.

You're right, but to me it comes down to how many people enjoy something. If most people enjoy both Ian and Lena, then it's not a problem. If most people enjoyed the bimbo route, then it's not a problem. If most people like all of Alison/Emma/Holly, then it's not a problem. If most people don't enjoy something, though, then it is a problem, because it feels like you've wasted other opportunities. And even if Robert is pretty hated, only 22/224 people voted that the story would be better without him when Eva held a poll on Patreon.

Anyways, we can both agree that it would be Eva's decision in the end.

 

[DatBoit]

The m/m content doesn’t even need to be long and extensive, like an entire route. Earlier I posted an idea how it could work, with Ian looking at Jeremy’s photos and videos on his phone. Ian could either focus on Alison or maybe if his lust or will allows it, on Jeremy’s cock. That would set that flag. But he wouldn’t go down a whole another path. Maybe in some threesomes with another guy there could be some options. It would just be a few extra scenes. I think it would be awesome.

If Eva was to include gay content, I think this would definitely be the best way. It shouldn't be too difficult or time consuming as it would only require to create a couple of extra images for a scene, and writing a bit of extra dialogue. It also avoids any problems with exponential growth in a complete route (M/M relationships, more requests for scenes etc). It would be a pretty solid way of giving the people who are interested in that content an opportunity to enjoy it, while not having to commit to a whole path.

 

[locoaceto]

I fully believe they're gonna have a m/m route. I also think Wen (or the other trainer you meet) is gonna be that guy.

 

[patachoucs]

I fully believe they're gonna have a m/m route. I also think Wen (or the other trainer you meet) is gonna be that guy.

I have been wondering about that too. Wen does seem interested by Ian on more than one account... But it'd kinda be "cliché" to have the BJJ guy being gay. Oh well, we'll see.

BloodyMares I'm glad you adressed the "homophobic rethoric". In many countries passing the "wedding for everyone" law, a couple of arguments were always used : that's somehow it was taking away from heterosexual to have gay people be able to get married (still trying to figure that one out ?!), that next it would be "zoophile's wedding", then "pedophile's wedding" that would be allowed. This is why I adressed that issue, and I'm glad DatBoit clarified and maybe realized what he wrote was clearly on the slippery rope. There's a reason these arguments are still used to this day by extremists, conservatives and the far right medias in general. I won't say that's what you wanted to express, but you have to be careful with the arguments you're using. Just saying

 

[GodovasikTugoserya]

Concerning possible homo route - it will be actually funny, if Jeremy was closet bisexual, with submissive streak for same sex interactions.

 

[itssammyl]

BloodyMares Seems like in .5 Beta there's some new or different trigger. Flirted with Mike, danced with him...Louise is sick and when Mike is bringing us to the cab, there's no option to bring him home, just 'Say Goodbye' and this is with a Lust 6+ Lena. Thoughts?

If I’m not mistaken, you need willpower to take him home.

 

[itssammyl]

1 Will, baby. Eva patched the controversial scene. The Will requirement kinda balances it out.

What was the scene?

 

[BloodyMares]

What was the scene?

The one after the club where Lena invites Mike to her place.

 

[itssammyl]

The one after the club where Lena invites Mike to her place.

What was so controversial though? That Mike had a gf?

 

[Gohan007]

What was so controversial though? That Mike had a gf?

Yes, but more specifically that Lena was okay with going to bed with someone who'd knowingly cheat on his gf.