VN Ren'Py Our Red String [Ch. 12 Full] [Eva Kiss]

[MyStupidPornAccount]

It would also make Jeremy more of an obvious hypocrite, given his supposed bro-code while still submitting to Lena if she insists.

I think the idea behind Jeremy's character is that he's trying to be a playa while he doesn't really have the composure to be a very impressive individual.

• His hookup with Alison happens only if Ian shows no interest.
• Ivy doesn't seem that impressed by him either, I get the sense from her that it's more of a game to her. Whatever happens between him and Ivy also only happens because of Ivy's initiative.
• Even his material with Emma in ch. 8 is prompted by Ian.
• Louise, the insecure submissive goth girl, is his only claim to alpha prowess, a person that quite literally throws herself at Lena when the thing between them breaks apart.

He doesn't really have the claim to have game that he tries to project.

I mean his code is that he gives it to girls that want it because they will end up cheating anyways, he backs up ian when he sees him with cindy after all.

I think him not getting with those girls unless prompted by the player is just so that the player can avoid seeing cuck content, the only one he pursues regardless is alison because that one is the only one that makes sense that he would be rejected because she really likes ian.

I mean he would have got some from alison had ian not prevented it, he would have got some from ivy had he not been caught. The only exception is emma but that's just the games way of letting the player choose whether they want to share emma rather than forcing it upon them. I think it's fairly well played off with jeremy not pursuing her because he just chooses not to due to having enough girls and only getting with her if ian says he should because she's a freak, if ian says that line what happens? he immediately gets some from her and ian is shocked at how fast.

So I wouldn't say he's supposed to be a failed playa it's just the games way of letting you choose to not see or hear about this npc fucking all the girls you are trying to get with. I really wouldn't be surprised if jeremy can fuck holly/jess by the time the game is done.

 

[BlandChili]

I mean his code is that he gives it to girls that want it because they will end up cheating anyways, he backs up ian when he sees him with cindy after all.

Well, his code is really the idea that any girl not formally taken is fair game, he gets prissy if Ian insists that he has an interest in being the only one pursuing Alison and he approves if Ian regards her as open for play. Not that there is anything wrong with that itself, but it is a code that he is somewhat bendy with so far. We'll see how he keeps to it going forward. His real sin in my eyes is his disregard towards Louise, but this is obviously something Lena too can exhibit.

I think him not getting with those girls unless prompted by the player is just so that the player can avoid seeing cuck content, the only one he pursues regardless is alison because that one is the only one that makes sense that he would be rejected because she really likes ian.

Could be, Eva wasn't really that afraid of cuck material in GGGB, but I suppose it might be different with Ian being a male main character? I don't really know how cuckolding content is experienced from a male perspective.

I mean he would have got some from alison had ian not prevented it, he would have got some from ivy had he not been caught. The only exception is emma but that's just the games way of letting the player choose whether they want to share emma rather than forcing it upon them.

Eh, if Lena wanted Jeremy to get with Em regardless of the player's wishes I think she'd have done it. Emma rather plays into Ian's voyeur route.

I think it's fairly well played off with jeremy not pursuing her because he just chooses not to due to having enough girls and only getting with her if ian says he should because she's a freak, if ian says that line what happens? he immediately gets some from her and ian is shocked at how fast.

I just got the impression that Emma wasn't his type. Emma has alternative opinions and isn't afraid to speak up, so I can see a guy like Jeremy who wants the vanilla player experience being put off slightly by her.

So I wouldn't say he's supposed to be a failed playa it's just the games way of letting you choose to not see or hear about this npc fucking all the girls you are trying to get with. I really wouldn't be surprised if jeremy can fuck holly/jess by the time the game is done.

Possibly, it seems at least that Eva is sort of having an "open" story with him where he can play into various routes depending on the player's choice. If Cindy breaks up with Wade and Ian doesn't play for keeps, there'll probably be a side-route there too.

 

[dundun]

And again -- if this IS what's actually going on -- that's kind of ridiculous given that it's not stopping any number of potential slutty shenanigans with Mike/Robert/Jeremy/etc. Which is good and exactly how it should be, imo. It just seems weird and inconsistent that it's prohibitive here. And i definitely hope it's not a sign of things to come.

It is. If Lena is dating Ian she won't go for Holly. It makes sense if you look at Lena's reaction to IanxHolly. There she is angry because she now stands between Ian and Holly. Here she would be put Holly at the same spot (who at this point still doesn't know about IanxLena). Holly would feel she was stealing Ian away from Lena.

 

[Tarmogo]

This does seem to be one of the most popular pairings (or groupings) based on what I am reading. Given that it's been mentioned that there are going to be 20+ chapters and we're still in the early stages, one possible entry-point might be similar to Lena x Axel x Cherry in Lena's past? Maybe Ian x Lena have to be fully committed and fully trust each other, yet want to spice things up. On the other hand, Holly has to be "changed" enough to accept being brought into a threesome.

I mainly want this route because I like the IanxLena relationship a lot, but personally don't want to see Holly end up super corrupted or with someone bad.

Lol honestly reading the posts on this forum make me feel like the rare exception who has a strong preference for this pairing. ORS is one of the few games where my preferred route is full commitment instead of playing the field. I find their chemistry electrifying and explains their induced attraction to each other (please pardon this awful dad joke ). I do find the dual protagonist thing being the main driver for this, which helps explain their points of view on each other, especially when you focus on wits. At the same time I can understand because you control both, it can seem like... "onani-ecchi". But hey, I'm a sucker for dual protagonists with an intertwining plotline.

Picking the committed route however, the narrative in my mind comes across more as two people trying to stay true to themselves while struggling against temptation (Ian) or constant attention and attempted manipulation (Lena).

I have a strong preference for the IanxLena relationship as well. The way the story is written obviously pushes their relationship as the "canon" choice, which can understandably make people think its the boring route. However, it being the default path does give it a ton of content and it's really well written imo, so it feels rewarding. I think another reason people find it boring is that a lot of the fetish/kink content is contained to other routes, so they would rather pursue those which makes sense.

 

[BlandChili]

I have a strong preference for the IanxLena relationship as well. The way the story is written obviously pushes their relationship as the "canon" choice, which can understandably make people think its the boring route. However, it being the default path does give it a ton of content and it's really well written imo, so it feels rewarding. I think another reason people find it boring is that a lot of the fetish/kink content is contained to other routes, so they would rather pursue those which makes sense.

My opposition is not so much boredom as much as I dislike the narrative insistence on their pairing, like I mentioned, I actually think they make a fine enough couple. I think the concept of their pairing having such a central integration in the story runs counter to the point of what a visual novel should really be.

Ash/Eric in GGGB had its merits as well but wasn't pushed nearly to the same degree as Ian/Lena, some people found their pairing boring too. Ian and Lena's relationship is practically the only topic anyone talks about for the first 5~ish chapters, except for when Ivy and Louise are at each other's throats. Even in ch. 8 Emma will still go "Yo Lenz, Ian is totally, like, into you omagawd," which isn't necessarily an issue in of itself, but then Lena goes on to emphasise that "nothing will probably happen" which is an infuriating disclaimer which implies this metaphysical state of their pairing being something given, when you try to play a route where it's not even in question.

The later chapters have become better at this so I hope it's an issue Eva is aware of.

 

[Tarmogo]

It is. If Lena is dating Ian she won't go for Holly. It makes sense if you look at Lena's reaction to IanxHolly. There she is angry because she now stands between Ian and Holly. Here she would be put Holly at the same spot (who at this point still doesn't know about IanxLena). Holly would feel she was stealing Ian away from Lena.

Agreed that Lena's reaction to IanxHolly makes sense and thus having the LenaxHolly scene blocked as a result is perfectly in line with that. The sticking point for me is that if IanxHolly never happens, the game still prevents LenaxHolly if IanxLena are dating. I think the explanation that Holly doesn't want to come between them works really well, but that isn't referenced at all in the dialog leading up to that moment and the choice to initiate the scene is just blocked. If the game allowed you to attempt the LenaxHolly scene and Holly stopped it for that reason than I think everything would make a lot more sense.

 

[Tarmogo]

My opposition is not so much boredom as much as I dislike the narrative insistence on their pairing, like I mentioned, I actually think they make a fine enough couple. I think the concept of their pairing having such a central integration in the story runs counter to the point of what a visual novel should really be.

I completely get where you're coming from. The narrative definitely pushes the relationship hard and any route outside of that suffers for it since those routes always feel at odds with what is being pushed. I honestly haven't played many visual novels before this one, so I can't comment on if this one is breaking typical conventions or not.

Ash/Eric in GGGB had its merits as well but wasn't pushed nearly to the same degree as Ian/Lena, some people found their pairing boring too. Ian and Lena's relationship is practically the only topic anyone talks about for the first 5~ish chapters, except for when Ivy and Louise are at each other's throats. Even in ch. 8 Emma will still go "Yo Lenz, Ian is totally, like, into you omagawd," which isn't necessarily an issue in of itself, but then Lena goes on to emphasise that "nothing will probably happen" which is an infuriating disclaimer which implies this metaphysical state of their pairing being something given, when you try to play a route where it's not even in question.

I never played GGGB so I can't compare the two at all personally. Again, there is no doubt that IanxLena is pushed very hard, especially early on, but I am sure as the story progresses it will become less of an issue as the other routes continue to be fleshed out and explored. My only fear is that Eva may be setting herself up for a future where maintaining a coherent game state becomes so insanely difficult with the sheer amount of variables that she is introducing.

 

[Mpkstroff]

...My only fear is that Eva may be setting herself up for a future where maintaining a coherent game state becomes so insanely difficult with the sheer amount of variables that she is introducing.

I think that is one of the reasons why Lena can't have sex with Holly if is dating Ian

 

[BlandChili]

[...] but I am sure as the story progresses it will become less of an issue as the other routes continue to be fleshed out and explored.

I assume that to be the case. I noticed someone else taking it up with Eva on the discord server, in regards to the specific scene with Emma I mentioned, so I am looking forward to seeing if she tweaks it.

My only fear is that Eva may be setting herself up for a future where maintaining a coherent game state becomes so insanely difficult with the sheer amount of variables that she is introducing.

How states changed between the alpha and beta this time might suggest she's at least facing something of a hurdle. You should give GGGB a spin, it's also got many various paths, pairings and end-states, so Eva isn't a complete novice when it comes to branching narratives.
Eva has mentioned a time skip once, if she still is planning that I hope she will reflect on where the different paths are going and try to consolidate some of them before that point.

 

[Tarmogo]

I think that is one of the reasons why Lena can't have sex with Holly if is dating Ian

Yeah I agree. She made the decision to make the change as a result of the discourse specifically surrounding the Lena confronting Ian scene, but that same change has now effected other routes where the LenaxHolly scene "should" be viable.

 

[dundun]

The sticking point for me is that if IanxHolly never happens, the game still prevents LenaxHolly if IanxLena are dating. I think the explanation that Holly doesn't want to come between them works really well, but that isn't referenced at all in the dialog leading up to that moment and the choice to initiate the scene is just blocked. If the game allowed you to attempt the LenaxHolly scene and Holly stopped it for that reason than I think everything would make a lot more sense.

It's not Holly's decision, it's Lena's. She doesn't want to put Holly in the position to break up her 2 friends. Holly would be in the same position like Lena is if IanxHolly happens. I guess she isn't a hypocrite, after all.

 

[Tarmogo]

I assume that to be the case. I noticed someone else taking it up with Eva on the discord server, in regards to the specific scene with Emma I mentioned, so I am looking forward to seeing if she tweaks it.

I definitely appreciate that she is willing to listen to feedback from the players and potentially make changes if she deems them appropriate. On the flipside, I am weary of making too many changes though as they could cause unforseen complications with other routes if they are not thoughtfully implemented. There is also the fact that she is the writer, so she should have complete control to tell the story she wants regardless of the players desires or wishes.

How states changed between the alpha and beta this time might suggest she's at least facing something of a hurdle.

Agreed. I think she may have been a bit to hasty to implement a "fix" for the perceived problems with that scene and inadvertently caused another.

You should give GGGB a spin, it's also got many various paths, pairings and end-states, so Eva isn't a complete novice when it comes to branching narratives.

I plan to at some point. Just haven't devoted the time to it yet.

Eva has mentioned a time skip once, if she still is planning that I hope she will reflect on where the different paths are going and try to consolidate some of them before that point.

A time skip definitely seems plausible at some point in the story. It would certainly be a way to do a soft reset on a lot of the open threads and could help her get things back to a manageable state if that becomes necessary.

 

[Mpkstroff]

It's not Holly's decision, it's Lena's. She doesn't want to put Holly in the position to break up her 2 friends. Holly would be in the same position like Lena is if IanxHolly happens. I guess she isn't a hypocrite, after all.

But... the way I see it, if is Lena's decision, it should be the player decision .
And if she can fuck around with Jeremy and potentially break a friendship, why can't with Holly? (I know why, but this is for the sake of discussion )

 

[rafinator89]

Any new scene in the beta?

 

[Tarmogo]

It's not Holly's decision, it's Lena's. She doesn't want to put Holly in the position to break up her 2 friends. Holly would be in the same position like Lena is if IanxHolly happens. I guess she isn't a hypocrite, after all.

That line of thinking is not expressed by Lena in any of the dialog or inner monologue prior to the potential scene occurring though. You're applying outside context (which I agree is the likely reason) to the situation that the game doesn't express. This new situation is similar to the one that Eva made the change to fix in the first place.

 

[Tarmogo]

Any new scene in the beta?

Nothing new for the beta. Two new scenes will be added for the final.

 

[BlandChili]

I definitely appreciate that she is willing to listen to feedback from the players and potentially make changes if she deems them appropriate. On the flipside, I am weary of making too many changes though as they could cause unforseen complications with other routes if they are not thoughtfully implemented. There is also the fact that she is the writer, so she should have complete control to tell the story she wants regardless of the players desires or wishes.

I do agree with that, you should never rush to fix something in a reactionary way at least. Still, the nature of developing a game through patreon of course means she can change it again, which I almost expect will happen too. I did notice your post on discord too actually, so hopefully she's read it and considering how to make a more optimal scene.

 

[Tarmogo]

I do agree with that, you should never rush to fix something in a reactionary way at least. Still, the nature of developing a game through patreon of course means she can change it again, which I almost expect will happen too. I did notice your post on discord too actually, so hopefully she's read it and considering how to make a more optimal scene.

Exactly. Rushing to implement a change immediately is usually never the best solution. As you said, the development cycle of the game will allow for plenty of time for her to polish things and tweak where needed.

Yeah I dropped that comment in Discord earlier this morning just to see if I was missing anything. Hopefully she'll respond and maybe give some more insight into her thought process on it.

 

[dundun]

That line of thinking is not expressed by Lena in any of the dialog or inner monologue prior to the potential scene occurring though.

Yes, but has the game to explain itself every time something doesn't happen? It's not this way with all the other options in the game. There were other time where Lena couldn't kiss Holly.

You're applying outside context (which I agree is the likely reason) to the situation that the game doesn't express.

It's not really outside context, it's Lena's character, Lena's sensibilities. It's not in your playthrough but it is in the game.

This new situation is similar to the one that Eva made the change to fix in the first place.

Things that happen are more in need of explanation than things that don't. Because there is only one thing that happens but infinite things that don't.

I agree, when Ivy asks you to join, some explanation of why Lena declines would make sense. But before you can't kiss Holly?
Aren't you setting too high a standard for EvaKiss to explain every road not taken?

Rushing to implement a change immediately is usually never the best solution. As you said, the development cycle of the game will allow for plenty of time for her to polish things and tweak where needed.

It wasn't exactly rushed. She went over one spot a lot of people felt needed change and she apparently agreed. But don't expect her to keep fiddling around until it's perfect. She got things to do

 

[TamaMountain]

So if I understand the comments above correctly, if Ian and Lena are a thing, then Lena can't help Holly gain confidence by having sex with her, either alone or with Ivy.

Previously I found out that the only way this was locked out was if Ian fked Holly, now it's this as well? I thought Ian and Lena are not dating, even if they are sleeping together. Shouldn't they be allowed to fool together with other people, Holly included?

Not sure how I feel about this change . This Holly character is really causing Eva Kiss to make weird changes. Unless of course I'm mistaken about all this, since I have not played the Beta yet; still waiting for the final release.