VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Ir0n Ma1den]

This game is fucking excellent. I'm blown away by the pacing of the story and basically all the characters. It's just really well made.

That said, Hana and Mina are VERY CLEARLY the best girls. And it's not close . They're 10/10 characters. I mean, it even feels like the game is giving them extra attention. Or am I just imagining that? Maybe it has something to do with patreon polls and whatnot, maybe the devs do a little bit extra for favourites...

Veronica&Hana. I am a bro so its I won't still my friends girl.

 

[Turret]

This is one game where I legitimately play it as though I'm living through the character rather than just watching some abstract character in a movie do his thing. So just like in real life, I consider all possibilities:

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Hi!
Great that your first post is about this game. Interesting thoughts by you about some of the possible LIs in the game. Some answer comments from me:

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[Babalui]

I hope Cynthia shows up again.

Spoiler: Prediction

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[DirtyMario]

This is one game where I legitimately play it as though I'm living through the character rather than just watching some abstract character in a movie do his thing. So just like in real life, I consider all possibilities:

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Mostly agree with you, but you can't forget that Hana is quite clearly best girl, no doubt about that.
It's great to have someone to talk to about work without sugar coating the things that are happening there. We'll just have to be careful about word getting out to Kat because she'll surely take advantage of it and strain the relationship to the breaking point.

I feel a bit bad for basically encouraging Mina to break up with Ian but I believe she's better off without him, no matter if Edwin is in the picture or not.

Also I made a promise to Hana. And I don't do things like that without thought, so I won't have any other choice but to break off every romantic connection outside of the club, and I will. I sincerely hope she'll accept that I'm friends with Vero because she's freakin' adorable under all that muscle and I really want to help her. It's not like we're fucking or anything (outside of the "work environment").

Speaking of work, does anyone have "Trusted" status with August?
Because I don't. And I'm really confused about why that is, because I can't recall any event that would call my loyalty into question.

 

[TD1900]

Speaking of work, does anyone have "Trusted" status with August?
Because I don't. And I'm really confused about why that is, because I can't recall any event that would call my loyalty into question.

That is August's default state.
The idea is, over the course of the game, you (potentially) have Chuck's trust to lose and August's trust to gain.

 

[Turret]

Mostly agree with you, but you can't forget that Hana is quite clearly best girl, no doubt about that.
It's great to have someone to talk to about work without sugar coating the things that are happening there. We'll just have to be careful about word getting out to Kat because she'll surely take advantage of it and strain the relationship to the breaking point.

I feel a bit bad for basically encouraging Mina to break up with Ian but I believe she's better off without him, no matter if Edwin is in the picture or not.

Also I made a promise to Hana. And I don't do things like that without thought, so I won't have any other choice but to break off every romantic connection outside of the club, and I will. I sincerely hope she'll accept that I'm friends with Vero because she's freakin' adorable under all that muscle and I really want to help her. It's not like we're fucking or anything (outside of the "work environment").

Speaking of work, does anyone have "Trusted" status with August?
Because I don't. And I'm really confused about why that is, because I can't recall any event that would call my loyalty into question.

Hi!
Concerning August: I remmeber that long ago TD answered me about gaining August´s trust that it is won in etappen. In several events where we gain RPs with August you also gain (hidden) trust ponts. Once you reach a certain threshold, his stats will change to "trusted". I think no player currently has reached that many trust points. I am near or at max current RP with August and I too still do not have his full trust.

About friendships: Like you, I hope that even with GF status Hana will accept a friendship with Felicia in my case. You cannot not like our eccentric resident gold-digger. Since in my "canon" playthrough I go to the art exhibition freely, without any expectations or taking money, I think this should be fine.
As I mentioned in a post above, hopefully this way we can get Hana and Felicia closer, both being artists, if in different fields.

 

[DirtyMario]

That is August's default state.
The idea is, over the course of the game, you (potentially) have Chuck's trust to lose and August's trust to gain.

Ah, that explains a lot. I'll go for that in a heartbeat because I'm quite positive that Chuck is a high functioning sociopath and as friendly as he seems currently, I wouldn't leave him alone with my drink. At least August is honest about being a scumbag. And also I fancy his daughter *a lot* and having the parents on your side is always a good thing.

Hi!
Concerning August: I remmeber that long ago TD answered me about gaining August´s trust that it is won in etappen.

I love the way you weave in the german when you speak english.

 

[Turret]

I love the way you weave in the german when you speak english.

Thank you, even if that is mostly my native tongue jumping in on her own. But we German speakers can go all Shakespearian on the English natives, since German has retained features English lost over the centuries, we just have to let run our SOV+V2 sytax free.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Been replaying the game from the beginning after the last update, when I was reminded about this gem.



For those somehow unaware, Samurai Cop is (no joke) a real movie that actually exists. It is top-tier B-Movie schlock, but it is real.




You can also find commentary and interviews with the movie's star Matt Hannon with Red Letter Media on YouTube (they were my introduction to the movie), and they are linked in Matt McMuscle's video description. He just gives a more concise history of the movie and the weirdness of its production.

 

[BestFapper1337]

Always a beatiful game, but in this update "the story" is only a couple of vanilla fucking. Ok, so important for main story, but a weak episode.

Agree with this.The game is top-top and a lot of work on all the render stuff.

But the updates take longer and longer since the start of the game when 3 months would feel late and they would say something about that.
Imo with this weak episode seems like this game development gets in the "box" of what other games are doing , with at least 1 foot. Hope we dont get slowly closer to 1 year per update and 1 scene.

Also just personal pov but using the big numbers of image/clips and tons of words seems such a weird way to say how much content you have.
In reality without using those numbers and instead described in way so everyone can understand: this update barely has 2 scenes(you can cut 1 full in multiple ones, it wont make it more btw, is still 1 long scene) and while a lot of work went into it and is great looking and all that good stuff.............. this just felt barely anything for how long it took.

Hope next time we go back to the great updates with really intense scenes we had before and have some better release time as well.

 

[TD1900]

But the updates take longer and longer since the start of the game when 3 months would feel late and they would say something about that.

Not every update is created equal, in terms of scope or creative challenge involved. Our standards and quality have evolved over time, especially in regards to the visual aspect. Not only have we become more animation heavy (our first few updates weren't animated), but scenes have become more complex with more moving parts and actors.

Producing something creative isn't a linear process , and we've been transparent about the scope of this update for the entire cycle. If the story line progress feels unsatisfactory, well... I'm at least happy you're invested enough to be eager for more.

However, this a passion project. We operate openly with the philosophy it takes as long as it takes and we make no qualms about it.

Also just personal pov but using the big numbers of image/clips and tons of words seems such a weird way to say how much content you have.
In reality without using those numbers and instead described in way so everyone can understand: this update barely has 2 scenes(you can cut 1 full in multiple ones, it wont make it more btw, is still 1 long scene) and while a lot of work went into it and is great looking and all that good stuff.............. this just felt barely anything for how long it took.

I mean... numbers are numbers. We completed so many statics and animations, compared against previous updates. How that splits up into number of scenes is irrelevant, in terms of the work involved.

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

Agree with this.The game is top-top and a lot of work on all the render stuff.

But the updates take longer and longer since the start of the game when 3 months would feel late and they would say something about that.
Imo with this weak episode seems like this game development gets in the "box" of what other games are doing , with at least 1 foot. Hope we dont get slowly closer to 1 year per update and 1 scene.

Also just personal pov but using the big numbers of image/clips and tons of words seems such a weird way to say how much content you have.
In reality without using those numbers and instead described in way so everyone can understand: this update barely has 2 scenes(you can cut 1 full in multiple ones, it wont make it more btw, is still 1 long scene) and while a lot of work went into it and is great looking and all that good stuff.............. this just felt barely anything for how long it took.

Hope next time we go back to the great updates with really intense scenes we had before and have some better release time as well.

While I can certainly understand why you might have felt the update seemed a bit short...and indeed, in terms of pushing plot forward, it was relatively brief...I disagree that numbers of scenes vs. renders/words written is a more accurate way to judge the work done by the development team. This game, like others where player choice can really matter, has to have scenes to accomodate said choice.

You may have seen 2 scenes in your playthrough, but to arrive at that place the developers had to create five scenes. Four unique ones dependant on how the MC decides to spend their night. That is real work going into the dev process, and just because we as players might not get to glimpse it (unless we play all paths) doesn't mean it shouldn't be counted as such.

My two cents.

 

[Kinky Bully]

I would take a single long Hana scene over 1000 random girl scenes any day.

 

[ename144]

This is one game where I legitimately play it as though I'm living through the character rather than just watching some abstract character in a movie do his thing. So just like in real life, I consider all possibilities:

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I too find myself torn on how to proceed, though for a rather different set of reasons.

Spoiler: Hana

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Hi!
Concerning August: I remmeber that long ago TD answered me about gaining August´s trust that it is won in etappen. In several events where we gain RPs with August you also gain (hidden) trust ponts. Once you reach a certain threshold, his stats will change to "trusted". I think no player currently has reached that many trust points. I am near or at max current RP with August and I too still do not have his full trust.

About friendships: Like you, I hope that even with GF status Hana will accept a friendship with Felicia in my case. You cannot not like our eccentric resident gold-digger. Since in my "canon" playthrough I go to the art exhibition freely, without any expectations or taking money, I think this should be fine.
As I mentioned in a post above, hopefully this way we can get Hana and Felicia closer, both being artists, if in different fields.

I think Felicia is going to be one of the hardest to befriend if you commit to Hana. The problem is that Felicia really, really likes sex. Her path not only requires physically intimate with her, but also a level of *mental* intimacy about sex: the thrill of performing for an audience, the satisfaction of indulging in dark fantasies, reveling in the sheer wantonness of it all, that sort of thing. Hana could potentially get past the sex itself (within the context of the Club), but I think the mental aspect that Felicia craves is pretty much exactly what Hana doesn't want the MC to share with someone else. Her taste is just too different from Felicia's to permit any consistent overlap. My guess is we'll have to either stay casual with Hana and embrace the bond with Felicia, or keep things platonic with Felicia and thus stunt her friendship.


EDIT:

Agree with this.The game is top-top and a lot of work on all the render stuff.

But the updates take longer and longer since the start of the game when 3 months would feel late and they would say something about that.
Imo with this weak episode seems like this game development gets in the "box" of what other games are doing , with at least 1 foot. Hope we dont get slowly closer to 1 year per update and 1 scene.

Also just personal pov but using the big numbers of image/clips and tons of words seems such a weird way to say how much content you have.
In reality without using those numbers and instead described in way so everyone can understand: this update barely has 2 scenes(you can cut 1 full in multiple ones, it wont make it more btw, is still 1 long scene) and while a lot of work went into it and is great looking and all that good stuff.............. this just felt barely anything for how long it took.

Hope next time we go back to the great updates with really intense scenes we had before and have some better release time as well.

Errr, no. Even by the most conservative standard imaginable, the update has at least 7 scenes:
Waking up with Mina; waking up with Veronica; waking up at Victoria's house; waking up at home and getting a call from Kathleen; hanging out with Ian; the date with Hana; the coda with Ian.
Even if the first four are mutually exclusive in a single playthrough, they're all completely different. If that collection of scenes is not to your taste I get it, but they clearly exist.

As far as the numbers go, I don't see the problem. The numbers suggested this would be on the smaller side of releases, which it was. The devs also made it clear it would be highly Hana-centric, which it was. I see nothing deceptive about any of that; on the contrary, it seems extremely transparent.

 

[RoadWulf]

So, this is how I see this story ending in a way that everybody wins. (Except Kathleen, Chuck, August and all the other old fucks).

Veronica wins.
Why is that important? Because she's the only one whose situation can't be improved with just money. Samson's dumbass motives have to be exposed. He can't pull the Carnation shit twice if she wins.

Hana takes over for August.
Taking full ownership over his part of the Club. Kathleen believes she can manipulate Hana into selling her the stake. This leads to point #3

Hana sells the stake in the club to Felicia.
Now, not being just a member but an owner, Felicia has her next rung in the ladder. Hana now has the money to treat her mom and can separate herself from the club.

Felicia pays off Rosie's debt.
Using the power and money from the club Felicia makes Rosalind's debt go away.

Now for outside the club:

Killian goes to college, tries to figure himself out.

MC gets both Hana and Mina as his girlfriends after Hana helps out with some of Mina's list.

 

[OsirianObsidian]

Hi!
Great that your first post is about this game. Interesting thoughts by you about some of the possible LIs in the game. Some answer comments from me:

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Cheers - this game is so well written and the characters can be empathized with.

Onto your post - yeah, I just have a funny feeling about Hana. Not about her per se, but about…I’ll explain:

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[Turret]

I think Felicia is going to be one of the hardest to befriend if you commit to Hana. The problem is that Felicia really, really likes sex. Her path not only requires physically intimate with her, but also a level of *mental* intimacy about sex: the thrill of performing for an audience, the satisfaction of indulging in dark fantasies, reveling in the sheer wantonness of it all, that sort of thing. Hana could potentially get past the sex itself (within the context of the Club), but I think the mental aspect that Felicia craves is pretty much exactly what Hana doesn't want the MC to share with someone else. Her taste is just too different from Felicia's to permit any consistent overlap. My guess is we'll have to either stay casual with Hana and embrace the bond with Felicia, or keep things platonic with Felicia and thus stunt her friendship.

Your post shows a likely scenario, I agree with you on that. But I think on the other hand Felicia and her friendship is us players best chance to get a at least partially corrupted Hana on the good and nice paths!
It is correct that Feli has strong exhibitionistic urges, an equally strong sexual appetite and she made an impression at the Club. Just think back when Hana starts to suck off Edwin, she says "I´m not Felicia". Hana has seen Feli with our MC and I think she knows that there might be a connection that goes beyond just sex.

If we commit to Hana and can bring about a friendship with Feli, no matter how platonic, there is actually a good chance these two so different girls can "click" together, since they share a lot of traits too. Leaving the sex complex aside for a moment, Hana and Felicia are both talented artists. Feli already even won several prices. Both are normally straightforward and have their set of convictions, which they do not compromise easily. Both girls share a "I´ll show them" motivation.
While between Hana and August there seems to be starting a bit of thawing (esp. if our Edwin is in the mix), since Hana herself says she could cut ties with August if she truly wanted, Feli´s motive is gaining own influence and saving the school of her homecity. For Felicia being able to act out fantasies in the Club is a bonus, not the aim as most others think.
I theorise that once Hana learns about Felicia´s real motives for coming into the Club, these two could become friends. And once Hana and Feli are friends, we can either let their friendship just be or as mentioned above, if we want a partially "corrupted" Hana on a good path, Feli could become a sexual "mentor" for Hana. Not completely, but in the way Feli helping Hana becoming good in the bed with Edwin. (Or for those who want a more corrupted Hana even a bit more experimentation)
More tomorrow or the coming days, I need to go to bed, it is late here.
P.S. OsirianObsidian , this goes for your post too.

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

I believe Hana is already aware of Felicia's motivations for joining the competition. She was there for the show where it was discussed.

 

[Gavin Ray]

As someone who has romantically cold-shouldered Mina since the beginning (because of the bro-code), and has not developed Hana's path beyond "just friends", this was indeed a brief update. With my primary focus being on the Carnations, I didn't feel like the MC needed personal attachment distractions (he's there to do a singular job, and then bail, after all). No complaints though.

Given the fact that some players, like myself, didn't have any Hana content this update (because we didn't choose her path), I am very curious to see how the MC's involvement with Hana will develop (arc) beyond this update. Will we always just be friends? Will we get the opportunity to take advantage of her position? Since the MC's job heavily depends upon on how the club is managed, I don't see a scenario in which we could avoid certain Hana interactions in the future.

Overall, excited to see what comes next...hoping for another 4 month (or less ) turnaround on Ch4Up2.

Cheers TD and Gil!

 

[RoadWulf]

As someone who has romantically cold-shouldered Mina since the beginning (because of the bro-code), and has not developed Hana's path beyond "just friends", this was indeed a brief update. With my primary focus being on the Carnations, I didn't feel like the MC needed personal attachment distractions (he's there to do a singular job, and then bail, after all). No complaints though.

Given the fact that some players, like myself, didn't have any Hana content this update (because we didn't choose her path), I am very curious to see how the MC's involvement with Hana will develop (arc) beyond this update. Will we always just be friends? Will we get the opportunity to take advantage of her position? Since the MC's job heavily depends upon on how the club is managed, I don't see a scenario in which we could avoid certain Hana interactions in the future.

Overall, excited to see what comes next...hoping for another 4 month (or less ) turnaround on Ch4Up2.

Cheers TD and Gil!

Outside of Hana or Mina, I also think it's also rather naïve of anyone to think that the MC would have any kind of lasting relationship with the Carnations after the Exhibition. As you said, he's there to do a job and eventually bail. Depending on how you play, as much as he may like and give a crap about the House Girls, the job there is just a stepping stone for him. In the same view, you could say that he's the Fourth Carnation (a theory I've held for a while).

Felicia's sugar mommy deal not withstanding, she's married and has no plans to stop being married so long as the guy she's with is loaded. She's a self proclaimed Gold Digger, and has no intention of that changing. Even as a successful doctor in the future, the MC would have no chance of becoming as rich as Elias Ford.

Veronica has stated (if you went this path) that she has absolutely no intention of staying friends or otherwise with the MC after the next 2 weeks. I think, especially for her, seeing him all the time would just bring up all the dark memories of what she endured and no matter how thankful she might end up becoming to him it would just destroy her mentally to have to constantly be reminded of the Club, knowing he still works there, seeing his face. She definitely wouldn't form a romantic relationship with him, and on the off chance she would, it would never happen if he still worked there.

Rose's relationship with him has been sexual, friendly and even affectionate. But that didn't stop her from making absolutely damn sure her daughter never met the MC. If she even had some inkling of the idea that she wanted to have some kind of long lasting relationship with him outside of the Club, that wouldn't be a problem. She sent the daughter away to camp, to keep her away from the Loan Shark and the Club business, but she even expressly tells the other Carnations during the second lunch meeting that she did it so the daughter wouldn't see the MC coming and going and have to explain who he was.