VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[selberdreher]

I'm sure she could, but what I don't get is why? Why would she do this?
(...)

Let me preface my answer. Contrary to the impression one could get when reading the last page, this is not about Kathleen forcing Edwin into any mother-son action. That would be just another vessel carrying the true content, namely hurting Victoria or both. Replace the above with any other degrading stuff like forcing his mother to eat dog shit or a good old, legalporno-style gangbang and confront Edwin with either the footage or even the live action.
It's about getting into Edwins head (and heart), either for revenge and punishment or to test his loyalty towards his new mistress.

I believe the revenge and punishment path is, given Kathleens predisposition, nearly self-explanatory and leads to two possible outcomes: either it breaks Edwin (bad ending, TD1900 stated they try to include some) or it sets the stage for the final showdown, because this would provide him a really strong motivation to fight her. Naturally this would be rather end game content.
If Kathleen can confront Edwin with recent, painful evidence about his mother and he feels ... nothing or even gets excited about her degradation (and not the act she was forced to commit) Kat knows for sure that she has won over Edwins soul. He is from now on her loyal disciple and will follow her path to his true destiny. Probably also rather end game content.

Going after the MCs mother would be a desperate gamble. Kat wouldn't play that card unless she felt she had to.

There is also a third possibility which is worth exploring in another post: Kathleen stays hidden, but gets Victoria into doing porn again, this time revealing some aspects of her which were already hinted at in this thread, but are unknown to Edwin. This could lead him to reevaluate his relationship to his mother, his values and ideals. Since he doesn't know Kathleen is behind that smut this time, he can't focus solely on her and the stage stays open for all actors.
It's also not necessarily end-game content, it could happen rather soon.
I'd love to elaborate on this in future.

Let's adress this part:

To return to a point I made upthread, Kat going after the MC's mother would immediately make the entire story about that.

I have outlined a strategy of which i believe would avoid that Kathleen starts to target Victoria for her shenanigans: try to keep a professional and friendly distance from her, just don't raise her interest in Edwin too much. However, if you throw yourself into the spider's web you have to brace yourself to meet the spider's poisoned fangs. There are different paths you can take ingame and i believe Kathleens is one of them.

The relationships the MC has developed, the slow-burn corruption overarching everything, the competition itself, all that goes out the window. The MC isn't going to be interested in any of the problems that any of the girls have at that point.

Consider this: Mina has no affiliation with the club.
Let's say my favourite is Mina, because Rosie is a fat and used victim, Felicia is a gold-digging trophy wife-slut and Veronica a haughty bi-lesbian on steroids. Hana is a skanky, tatooed wanabee rebell with a whore mother and a pimp father, not really wifey material either. My playthrough therefore is to romance Mina, get through the four weeks of competition and leave the club after that for good.
Happy end of story.
May be a boring, but totally viable alternative playthrough. And has all the issues you mentioned above.

Not if he's going to remain a believable character anyway.

I'd like to dissent on this point also.
My current canon playthrough revolves about dismantling the reign of the old owners eventually. I am actively playing to get the above mentioned (potential) punishment and revenge scenario, which would provide myEdwin with a credible motivation to fight against Kathleen, because he has then a very personal reason to do so and not just because she is a generic bad person. I view the carnations, Hana (plus perhaps her father?) and probably Ian as potential allies to achieve this goal. My game and the competition so far consists of assembling the heroes party needed to face the endbosses, so to speak. All of them are needed, and to form a strong bond between us we need to care for each other. MyEdwin wouldn't throw those relations out of the window, when it's finally time to face his nemesis, on the contrary: he will need to rely on his friends and allies in those crucial situations. He simply can't win alone.

The whole Kathleen-Victoria scenario essentially boils down to this question:
Is Victorias porn-past just a

You must be registered to see the links

or a

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?
As you may by now already have guessed, i believe the latter.
Victorias past, her model and the way she can steer the story into different directions are just too juicy not to utilize fully.

And as always i can be absolutely wrong with my reasoning.

 

[SanaeS]

My game and the competition so far consists of assembling the heroes party needed to face the endbosses, so to speak. All of them are needed, and to form a strong bond between us we need to care for each other. MyEdwin wouldn't throw those relations out of the window, when it's finally time to face his nemesis, on the contrary: he will need to rely on his friends and allies in those crucial situations. He simply can't win alone.

After reading this I now visualize the endgame in a Yakuza 7 style where we build our party (ex Mina Idol/healer, Vero brawler etc...) to beat the "carnations tower" club dungeon in which there are Abel and Sophia experiments as mobs, Warren as a midboss and Kathleen as the final boss.

 

[彡SILENT๛ONE]

Yes, normally and in general that's true.

However

now this does sadly happen. Put someone under extreme mental and psychological stress, make them fear for their lives or their loved ones, or let them experience some other kind of trauma (like accidents or disasters) and we have plenty of cases in which someone changed their personality completely. Recent examples include soldiers returning from the front, who are barely recognized by their partners. With these conditions met, changes are possible very fast.

Relatively fast changes - which are perhaps more likely to happen in the scope of PC - can be achieved by

• gaslighting: presenting a false narrative, thereby leading a person to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed. Can also set the stage for the aforementioned causes.
• Drug abuse: with Abels serum as the prime example, but not exclusively since there are other drugs also available at the club.
• Exposure to unusual or disagreeable behaviour, tends to bend a persons own perception towards the behaviour. Experiments have shown, that a lot of people have a hard time to dissent with a common shared opinion inside a closed group.
  You must be registered to see the links
  and the
  You must be registered to see the links
  should suffice as example.
• 'Brainwashing' as practiced in cults and other groups with special interests which are closed off to the general public and therefore can keep their members isolated inside their space of influence. Several conditions are met by the carnation club, and we can single out the technique of '
  You must be registered to see the links
  ' practiced by Kathleen.
• Sexwork: the methods commonly used by pimps to control their victims "closely resemble the brainwashing techniques of terrorists and paranoid cults."
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  . One ingame example would be Lucy, who is loosing her self-image as a heterosexual, caring mother and married woman really fast at the moment. I could also post some real-life examples who lost their shit incredible fast throughout their 'career'.
• The Taste of Power: the opportunity to exert real power inside the club. I don't think i'll need to cite real-life examples, and we already see the corrupting influence ingame on Edwin. "
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  "
• any combination or combination of parts of the above, there is no need to concentrate on a single technique. It's also very likely that my list is not exhaustive. These were just the ones i came up with.

So as we can see there is a wide array of possibilities available to change Hanas views, perception, self-image and values, which are of course part of her personality. While her initial disposition towards the club may power up her resilience, she is not invulnerable to those factors, should they be implemented by the club and/or our choices.

I am confident in TD1900s capability to write a consistent and believeable downfall of Hana, if they decide to go down this road.

Wtf Man .. why do you have so many options on your mind to change personality ( gaslighting, drug abuse, sex worker, brain washing) such type of corruption..!! Are you researching such things or what (⁠+⁠_⁠+⁠) Nvm

 

[selberdreher]

Wtf Man .. why do you have so many options on your mind to change personality ( gaslighting, drug abuse, sex worker, brain washing) such type of corruption..!! Are you researching such things or what (⁠+⁠_⁠+⁠) Nvm

I guess it's a fair share of life experiences, the fun of engaging with fellow thread members in a discussion about my favourite AVN and yeah, doing at least superficial research to make sure i am not posting totally out-of-my-ass-only crap.
Cheers!

 

[SanaeS]

After reading this I now visualize the endgame in a Yakuza 7 style in which we build our party (ex Mina Idol/healer, Vero brawler etc...) to beat the "carnations tower" club dungeon in which there are Abel and Sophia experiments as mobs, Warren as a midboss and Kathleen as the final boss.

 

[camube]

View attachment 2150723

THIS IS EPIC

 

[Crepusculum]

Let me preface my answer. Contrary to the impression one could get when reading the last page, this is not about Kathleen forcing Edwin into any mother-son action. That would be just another vessel carrying the true content, namely hurting Victoria or both. Replace the above with any other degrading stuff like forcing his mother to eat dog shit or a good old, legalporno-style gangbang and confront Edwin with either the footage or even the live action.
It's about getting into Edwins head (and heart), either for revenge and punishment or to test his loyalty towards his new mistress.

I believe the revenge and punishment path is, given Kathleens predisposition, nearly self-explanatory and leads to two possible outcomes: either it breaks Edwin (bad ending, TD1900 stated they try to include some) or it sets the stage for the final showdown, because this would provide him a really strong motivation to fight her. Naturally this would be rather end game content.
If Kathleen can confront Edwin with recent, painful evidence about his mother and he feels ... nothing or even gets excited about her degradation (and not the act she was forced to commit) Kat knows for sure that she has won over Edwins soul. He is from now on her loyal disciple and will follow her path to his true destiny. Probably also rather end game content.

There is also a third possibility which is worth exploring in another post: Kathleen stays hidden, but gets Victoria into doing porn again, this time revealing some aspects of her which were already hinted at in this thread, but are unknown to Edwin. This could lead him to reevaluate his relationship to his mother, his values and ideals. Since he doesn't know Kathleen is behind that smut this time, he can't focus solely on her and the stage stays open for all actors.
It's also not necessarily end-game content, it could happen rather soon.
I'd love to elaborate on this in future.

Let's adress this part:

I have outlined a strategy of which i believe would avoid that Kathleen starts to target Victoria for her shenanigans: try to keep a professional and friendly distance from her, just don't raise her interest in Edwin too much. However, if you throw yourself into the spider's web you have to brace yourself to meet the spider's poisoned fangs. There are different paths you can take ingame and i believe Kathleens is one of them.

Consider this: Mina has no affiliation with the club.
Let's say my favourite is Mina, because Rosie is a fat and used victim, Felicia is a gold-digging trophy wife-slut and Veronica a haughty bi-lesbian on steroids. Hana is a skanky, tatooed wanabee rebell with a whore mother and a pimp father, not really wifey material either. My playthrough therefore is to romance Mina, get through the four weeks of competition and leave the club after that for good.
Happy end of story.
May be a boring, but totally viable alternative playthrough. And has all the issues you mentioned above.


I'd like to dissent on this point also.
My current canon playthrough revolves about dismantling the reign of the old owners eventually. I am actively playing to get the above mentioned (potential) punishment and revenge scenario, which would provide myEdwin with a credible motivation to fight against Kathleen, because he has then a very personal reason to do so and not just because she is a generic bad person. I view the carnations, Hana (plus perhaps her father?) and probably Ian as potential allies to achieve this goal. My game and the competition so far consists of assembling the heroes party needed to face the endbosses, so to speak. All of them are needed, and to form a strong bond between us we need to care for each other. MyEdwin wouldn't throw those relations out of the window, when it's finally time to face his nemesis, on the contrary: he will need to rely on his friends and allies in those crucial situations. He simply can't win alone.

The whole Kathleen-Victoria scenario essentially boils down to this question:
Is Victorias porn-past just a

You must be registered to see the links

or a

You must be registered to see the links

?
As you may by now already have guessed, i believe the latter.
Victorias past, her model and the way she can steer the story into different directions are just too juicy not to utilize fully.

And as always i can be absolutely wrong with my reasoning.

Dude lol, just start making games.

 

[ahxjosu]

IM CONFUSIE

 

[ename144]

TD kicked off the next series of Dev Diaries today!

Spoiler: Dev Diary 46

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It sounds like our intrepid devs have created 58 statics and 1198 words in the last 4 days or so, an average of ~101 statics, 0 animations, and 2097 words per week. Unsurprisingly, that also gives them an overall average of ~101 statics, 0 animations, and 2097 words since work on Chapter 4 Update 2 began. Here are the charts:

Spoiler: No More Lazy Sunday Charts

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Obviously we've got a long way to go, but it's good to know the process has started. I really liked the Hana update and I'm eager to see more; even if Club business isn't exactly my idea of a good time, it will be interesting to see how things stand on Monday. It's nice to hear we'll have a little time with Mina and Veronica, too. (I wonder if that means another gym visit?)

The future can't come fast enough, but I'll try to be patient nonetheless.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

Here is hoping Mina and Veronica get the same treatment when their next sex scene finally arrive.

 

[camube]

TD kicked off the next series of Dev Diaries today!

Spoiler: Dev Diary 46

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

It sounds like our intrepid devs have created 58 statics and 1198 words in the last 4 days or so, an average of ~101 statics, 0 animations, and 2097 words per week. Unsurprisingly, that also gives them an overall average of ~101 statics, 0 animations, and 2097 words since work on Chapter 4 Update 2 began. Here are the charts:

Spoiler: No More Lazy Sunday Charts

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Obviously we've got a long way to go, but it's good to know the process has started. I really liked the Hana update and I'm eager to see more; even if Club business isn't exactly my idea of a good time, it will be interesting to see how things stand on Monday. It's nice to hear we'll have a little time with Mina and Veronica, too. (I wonder if that means another gym visit?)

The future can't come fast enough, but I'll try to be patient nonetheless.

Do you happen to remember how many months between Chapter 3 Update 2 and Chapter 3 Update 3 was out?

I want to know the rough estimate of how long we'll all be waiting this time, based of historical update release.

Since I think Ch3 Up4 to Ch4 Up1 waiting period is not a good representation because we always know Ch4 Up1 is always meant to be "a short update", so I'm guessing it has shorter development time than the average past updates.

 

[SetsunaFSeisei]

Will it be okay if you choose Mina as lover and Hana as GF at the same time?
I hope we can still get a happy ending by choosing both at once..
I can't leave any of them :/
From the first time I saw Mina I already liked her character..
While for Hana at first I didn't like her but after a while I liked her too because of her personality..

 

[TD1900]

Do you happen to remember how many months between Chapter 3 Update 2 and Chapter 3 Update 3 was out?

I want to know the rough estimate of how long we'll all be waiting this time, based of historical update release.

Since I think Ch3 Up4 to Ch4 Up1 waiting period is not a good representation because we always know Ch4 Up1 is always meant to be "a short update", so I'm guessing it has shorter development time than the average past updates.

I mean, I called it a short update and intended it to be a short update, but it ended up with like 1500 statics and 60 animations. I'm big dumb.

IIRC, C3Up2 -> Ch3Up3 took a little over 4 months.

 

[dolfe67]

Will it be okay if you choose Mina as lover and Hana as GF at the same time?
I hope we can still get a happy ending by choosing both at once..
I can't leave any of them :/
From the first time I saw Mina I already liked her character..
While for Hana at first I didn't like her but after a while I liked her too because of her personality..

I don't think so, but only devs know and they won't spoil it. Though Hana is quite clear on what she wants if you become a couple. You still have the option to stay fuck buddies.

 

[camube]

I mean, I called it a short update and intended it to be a short update, but it ended up with like 1500 statics and 60 animations. I'm big dumb.

IIRC, C3Up2 -> Ch3Up3 took a little over 4 months.

Four months is perfect for my own timeline. I'm aware I'm aware, there might be delay, even 5,5 months are fine for me.

When I read your post about it being Veronica-centric update, I don't think I can contain my excitement later on, around 2 weeks before the next release.

2 weeks pre-Ch4 Up2 release, I can see myself being so excited that I might be euphoric then. There is going to be 1 week during late Q1 2023 or early Q2 2023 where I'd play Pale Carnations next update and I'm really looking forward to that week.

 

[ename144]

Do you happen to remember how many months between Chapter 3 Update 2 and Chapter 3 Update 3 was out?

I want to know the rough estimate of how long we'll all be waiting this time, based of historical update release.

Since I think Ch3 Up4 to Ch4 Up1 waiting period is not a good representation because we always know Ch4 Up1 is always meant to be "a short update", so I'm guessing it has shorter development time than the average past updates.

This is probably the chart you're looking for, then:

Spoiler: Raw Development Time

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That's showing the time between the initial releases of each update. As you can see, TD wasn't entirely wrong to call Ch4Up1 small.

EDIT:

Four months is perfect for my own timeline. I'm aware I'm aware, there might be delay, even 5,5 months are fine for me.

When I read your post about it being Veronica-centric update, I don't think I can contain my excitement later on, around 2 weeks before the next release.

2 weeks pre-Ch4 Up2 release, I can see myself being so excited that I might be euphoric then. There is going to be 1 week during late Q1 2023 or early Q2 2023 where I'd play Pale Carnations next update and I'm really looking forward to that week.

I don't think the diary said it would be a Veronica-centric update, just that she would have a role outside the Club stuff. That could be a large or small role, and the Club stuff seems likely to be rather large as well. So I don't think Update 2 will be for Veronica what Update 1 was for Hana.

I'm still eager to see her content, of course.

 

[ahxjosu]

is it good or worse?

 

[camube]

So I don't think Update 2 will be for Veronica what Update 1 was for Hana.

Oh yeah I got that from the post too, but I'm still excited. Pointing out Mina and Veronica means comparatively, there are contents for them, so that's great.

If it's around 150 days, that would be great though. I don't even need it to be 4 months. I just want something that's less than 3 quarters. lol.

 

[RottenPlum]

Getting error when loading saves from previous version, tried with walkthrough mod and without it as well. I don't know if the issue is because i'm using compressed version.

Could someone be able to help me? There is no way i'm starting new game...

 

[Deleted member 4058859]

I don't think so, but only devs know and they won't spoil it. Though Hana is quite clear on what she wants if you become a couple. You still have the option to stay fuck buddies.

I hope we have the option to be a couple later in the story if we choose to be sex friends. Or at least I hope that being fuckbuddies does not lock us out of hana's ending.

I would have liked it a lot more if we start dating Hana first, make her a bit more open to our perversions and then have the girlfriend conversation. Instead of having the girlfriend conversation I wish the conversation was just about having a second date.