VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Ungawa]

But that conveniently ignores the economic tradeoff. Because at the end of the day, it CAN all be put into fungible terms. Marketing has a value. No doubt, people spreading your games gives you free marketing and exposure. That has an economic value.

Similiarly, a portion (certainly not even close to all) of the people who obtain the game without paying for it also has an economic impact, a drain on potential profits.

I'm not here to try and quantify the relative amounts of gain and loss and declare a conclusion, I just hate it when people make this argument that all software piracy is inherently good exposure and there can't possibly be any sound economic justification against it. Growing the pie of potential customers by a factor of 4 doesnt matter if after that growth, only 25% of that customer base actually pay for it.

The argument was not that all piracy was inherently good. The point of the meme was merely saying "IT EEZ WUT IT EEZ" especially in the fact that I have no control what others do, only what I do.

I'll wait. People will talk. Pirates gonna pirate. Value raised on a good game, people trash bad ones. World moves.

Nothing more or less.

 

[hoshidono]

im just gonna be grateful when i get to play it, whether its someone leaking it early or me waiting for the public release.

I've waited a couple of months, I can wait a bit longer no worries.

 

[TM | Twisted Games]

This is a pirate forum?

 

[banqwert]

so when is next update?

 

[ztg1234]

so when is next update?

Anytime between now and the public release, in 2 weeks.

 

[von chaturr]

Come on
Where are ya , don't be shy

 

[Idontplay]

You are the only hero you need!

 

[Biscardone]

Don't think for one instant that if an alternative site with similar exposure and viewership existed, yet with a built in store/checkout process - any of these devs would be communicating here. That may sound crass, but this isn't an amicable two way relationship, it's forced. I agree with the other guy; it all smacks of hypocrisy - the large majority of users here aren't going to pay for these things, and all the forum etiquette in the world won't change the morals or the economics.

While these two comment responses may sound contradictory; it's the charade that I hate. Rip people off fine, but then don't have a 30 minute morality debate. Equivalently - play it straight, great, fund those devs; but then dont have the same debate on a forum whose primary existence is to proliferate these games free of cost.

You know, this is an argument I've already read on another topic - it was a discussion on this same forum about AI images, and someone said "why discussing about dataset ethics on a pirate forum?". However, this kind of argument is a little too black-and-white to me: saying "we're all pirates" is not too far from "men are all pigs", "women are all sluts" and the like. Pirating a game doesn't automatically mean you must pirate them all. That's why I'd like to offer a different perspective.

I've found F95 while searching for adult games. But this is not the first site I found: I'll mention just another one, "FAP Nation", for comparison sake. They both provide with downloads for the same games, so if I were only interested in the download that's where I would stop, but there is a difference: the latter's comment section is an utter cesspool. On the flip side, F95's Pale Carnation's thread provides a lot of interesting discussion material and food for thoughts about the characters and the story, you just have to look for it - of course, there will always be posts on the level of "I slobber for feet", but that comes with the territory, and is part of the discussion anyways (high-brow as it is).

However, and here's the interesting part, on F95 the game's authors are also participating to the discussion, providing some insight on their choices, thought process and future intentions: this is something I'm personally grateful of, and something I won't find anywhere else. This rapport with the authors, and the discussions around the game, is something I'd like to see cultivated as much as possible: that's why, whenever a Pale Carnation release is imminent, I always advocate for waiting two weeks for the public release. The release will happen anyway, so I hope a modicum of courtesy can be applied. As you said, there is an big imbalance between the forum posters and the authors: avoiding to rub salt on their wounds is a way to thank the authors making the best of the situation, and being good sports about it on top of that. Is this hypocritical to all the other game authors we've ever hurt by downloading their games for free? It may as well be - but it's better than the alternative.

Oh, last and least: I've supported multiple games I've discovered on this forum, whenever I could, with one-off donations. But that's just a "me" thing, and it's not part of the discussion.

 

[se20299]

While I fully support piracy, it isn't all black or white. There are many game I bought after completing them because I wanted to support the devs, AAA or indie.

Given that vast majority of games on F95 are incomplete, I feel like we ought to support the true gems like this game, especially since the dev is pretty active in the community and chooses to engage with "pirates". Even if you can't affort to support the dev, at least be respectful and stop asking for freebies, since you'll get it for free anyway in 2 weeks. Many worse devs have decided that their shitty demos are too good to be pirated, so at least don't be a dick to devs that actually engage with us and give us insight into the process.

There are many developers that deserve to get ripped off, but M&J ain't it.

 

[Takkatakka]

If we get a link, we get a link. If we don't, we don't. You have no right to get the game early (or at all, really), if you don't support them.

 

[Vaassaa]

Actually, I disagree. This forum basically creates the western adult VN infrastructure. Perhaps SOME creators would still find success, but even that is unlikely. The noise from this forum is largely what pushed them even into steam. This is a ridiculously active and dedicated community, which also massively helps in overcoming the natural issues of censorship.

People are absolutely are entitled to the piracy of games UNLESS the creator is providing a very high quality product, while also not at all supported. This is not the case in the vast majority of games high quality games, where even when its pirated on alpha release, creators still get support in the tens of thousands.

This is an unbelievable luxury, especially since the entry level to adult VN devs here is ridiculously low as well, you can release a 0.1 beta and essentially get crowdfunded, or release 1/4 of a game and already be making a MONTHLY income that funds the creation of the game. The advantages compared to your regular indie game dev are beyond wild.

So I disagree with every comment being made about any sort of unethical piracy that happens due to this forum. This forum creates far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more than it takes away via the piracy. Not even comparable.

Complaining about piracy here is the equivalent to complaining about watching a youtuber without first donating to him.

 

[TD1900]

We owe (almost) all our exposure to this site, and I myself use this site for its intended purpose.

We're very lucky this conversation seems to pop up with every update, because simply put, we appreciate that it takes as long to leak as it does. We're at this intersection of size and popularity where we know it's inevitable, but it's not instantaneous like some bigger projects.

Now, please don't take this as me giving permission to leak it, of course. What I *am* saying is thank you to all those respectful not to. However, it only takes one person to let the cat out of the bag, and I'd be a hypocrite to get upset about if it does.

And if it does, thanks for liking our project enough to want it.

 

[Vaassaa]

I'm not going to discuss all the intricacies of ethics and access to goods in the digital era. I'll just say: there's a difference between pirating a game, and marching into a thread you know the game's authors are actively participating to, waving a flag and shouting "IMMA PIRATING THE GAME YOU'VE JUST PUBLISHED ON PATREON WOOO". Especially if said authors are engaging positively with the community. Again, it's a matter of good taste.
You can be a pirate all you want, no one can stop you. But you don't have to be an asshole about it.

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Most devs improve their renders over time Icstor is the opposite. this looks shit compared to his older work.

We owe (almost) all our exposure to this site, and I myself use this site for its intended purpose.

We're very lucky this conversation seems to pop up with every update, because simply put, we appreciate that it takes as long to leak as it does. We're at this intersection of size and popularity where we know it's inevitable, but it's not instantaneous like some bigger projects.

Now, please don't take this as me giving permission to leak it, of course. What I *am* saying is thank you to all those respectful not to. However, it only takes one person to let the cat out of the bag, and I'd be a hypocrite to get upset about if it does.

And if it does, thanks for liking our project enough to want it.

I don't think you have to worry about it much, the meme about men turning to absolute gentlemen when it comes to porn is actually extremely true, this forum is the most egalitarian society on earth probably. If a game is good and high quality it will be rewarded no questions asked. And we will all damn those who get in the way of that.

I distinctly remember a game that had average quality but below average sub numbers and people were actively pushing others to subscribe to it and not pirate it, until it reached a number that matched its quality.

 

[Pick_A_Name]

are you guys done?

Doesn't look like it

 

[Xumeey]

I don't think you have to worry about it much, the meme about men turning to absolute gentlemen when it comes to porn is actually extremely true, this forum is the most egalitarian society on earth probably. If a game is good and high quality it will be rewarded no questions asked. And we will all damn those who get in the way of that.

I distinctly remember a game that had average quality but below average sub numbers and people were actively pushing others to subscribe to it and not pirate it, until it reached a number that matched its quality.

I have no idea why you quoted my post from another thread, maybe an accident?
Anyway is the game you're talking about The Visit because I also remember people asking others to subscribe to it or at least popularized it so others can support it.

 

[sauron93]

My theory- No leaks during "priority access"-->more "club owner" patrons-->motivated devs--> fast next update. P.S- Just my own personal theory.. No stats to back this up.

 

[The Chad WEG Enjoyer]

ARRG ME HEARTIES, I've gone sailing the sea, and I'll soon be back with some booty, ARG. Me and my maties give much respect to the Capitan of this project, TD1900, we only plunder because we must, ARG!

 

[Bill Temple]

I distinctly remember a game that had average quality but below average sub numbers and people were actively pushing others to subscribe to it and not pirate it, until it reached a number that matched its quality.

On that note, my opinion is that Pale Carnations still deserves much more support given its quality. These devs are awesome and creating one of the best VNs ever. If y'all like the game and you've never supported them, it's not too late to correct your mistake.
Heck, even if some of the kinks and fetishes weren't really to your taste, maybe donate if you appreciate the quality of the writing and art. A vote with your wallet in this way shows other adult game devs that there's money to be made in making quality games.

 

[Alphaeboy]

1. When I'm working, I am totally paying 7 dollars on patron.
2. I'm not playing it until it's officially out publically on here
3. Which girls are getting screentime in this update?

 

[TD1900]

3. Which girls are getting screentime in this update?

Veronica got the bulk of the animation work, and significant screen time, but there's a lot of Rosalind too. Also some other small scenes, with miscellaneous characters.