Takkatakka

Engaged Member
Nov 11, 2022
2,545
7,070
IMO all of their problems can be helped, just not exclusively through the exhibition. 1st is a money problem, you can technically get someone else or your own cash to pay her out, or atleast buy her time. Veronica mostly needs to change her model, and shut down unused facilities to save cost. Felicia problem is a whole different level, mostly psychological one. Probably best to get her to stay away from the club tbh, atleast until MC and Hana took over
Sure, it CAN be helped theoretically...like if TD wants to write it that way, he could without breaking the plausibility of the story.

The question is rather if that is the story he wants to tell. A story where everybody end up reasonable happy, with all three carnations being able to succeed or getting rid of their problem. And so far I don't think that is the path the story will go, even if the player makes optimal decisions.
 
Nov 17, 2018
159
181
Sure, it CAN be helped theoretically...like if TD wants to write it that way, he could without breaking the plausibility of the story.

The question is rather if that is the story he wants to tell. A story where everybody end up reasonable happy, with all three carnations being able to succeed or getting rid of their problem. And so far I don't think that is the path the story will go, even if the player makes optimal decisions.
Yeah, ofc i don't think everything is gonna be smooth sailing. Im just writing stuff on top of my mind. We still don't know for sure what happen to darius or what is happening behind the curtains of the club(only a glimpse so far)
 

strangelandQQ

Newbie
Oct 21, 2023
52
112
Is more variety of endings a bad thing? Of course it's harder on the developer side.
But it seems to me, the more options the better? Of course there is an argument that for a game like PC the ending in the spirit of "happily ever after" will look weak and naive, but anyways

If ppl want Edwin being big-cock-satan, who's gonna make all the girls suffer - let them
If ppl want opposite situation - let them
 

Takkatakka

Engaged Member
Nov 11, 2022
2,545
7,070
Is more variety of endings a bad thing? Of course it's harder on the developer side.
But it seems to me, the more options the better? Of course there is an argument that for a game like PC the ending in the spirit of "happily ever after" will look weak and naive, but anyways

If ppl want Edwin being big-cock-satan, who's gonna make all the girls suffer - let them
If ppl want opposite situation - let them
Well, the more endings and variations the less fleshed out they'll likely be and/or the longer the development time will be.

The game already has the problem (and I'm not sure how it could be remedied in the way the updates are done at the moment), that depending on your choices some updates have very little content for you. So if you didn't follow the Veronica path, the last update had very little actual content for you. Now imagine the game have a lot of very different endings with very different scenes and you would have a situation in which you might not get any content from the last couple of update because "your" ending either was already implemented or is yet to come.

We'll simply have to see, what TD will come up with, but so far the game doesn't give me the vibe of a game that will have "perfect" ending if you just made the right choices.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,194
13,319
Sure, it CAN be helped theoretically...like if TD wants to write it that way, he could without breaking the plausibility of the story.

The question is rather if that is the story he wants to tell. A story where everybody end up reasonable happy, with all three carnations being able to succeed or getting rid of their problem. And so far I don't think that is the path the story will go, even if the player makes optimal decisions.
'Reasonably' being the key word. Is the option to, say, help Veronica come to terms with losing her gym and getting her in the right headspace to start over a reasonably happy ending if she doesn't win the contest? I think it could be, especially if it can be contrasted with a different ending where a beaten down Veronica becomes Samson's favorite house girl. It will depend both on what TD wants to happen and how he (and GIL, of course!) presents it.


Well, the more endings and variations the less fleshed out they'll likely be and/or the longer the development time will be.

The game already has the problem (and I'm not sure how it could be remedied in the way the updates are done at the moment), that depending on your choices some updates have very little content for you. So if you didn't follow the Veronica path, the last update had very little actual content for you. Now imagine the game have a lot of very different endings with very different scenes and you would have a situation in which you might not get any content from the last couple of update because "your" ending either was already implemented or is yet to come.

We'll simply have to see, what TD will come up with, but so far the game doesn't give me the vibe of a game that will have "perfect" ending if you just made the right choices.
Alternate endings are certainly labor intensive, but I don't think there's a worse place to skimp on dev time than the ending of a choice-based game. It's not only the final impression many players will have, it's the culmination of everything the game was building towards. You gotta stick the landing.

Mass Effect 3 did a lot of things wrong, but there's a reason it's the ending that became a meme.
 

Gab1

Member
Jul 9, 2018
106
167
Well, the more endings and variations the less fleshed out they'll likely be and/or the longer the development time will be.

The game already has the problem (and I'm not sure how it could be remedied in the way the updates are done at the moment), that depending on your choices some updates have very little content for you. So if you didn't follow the Veronica path, the last update had very little actual content for you. Now imagine the game have a lot of very different endings with very different scenes and you would have a situation in which you might not get any content from the last couple of update because "your" ending either was already implemented or is yet to come.

We'll simply have to see, what TD will come up with, but so far the game doesn't give me the vibe of a game that will have "perfect" ending if you just made the right choices.
True, and i hope we get a realistic ending for everybody, but an real ending doesnt has to be a sad, pessimistic or unhappy.
I think you could go for and ending kind of "life goes on" as true ending, Verónica losing the Gym but moving on, Rosalind working in the club but still her daughter is safe and her husband is fucked up, Felicia getting divorce but winning a place in the club, all three Girls leaving the MC behind but he end up with Killian, Mina and Hana, it is a nice ending for me.
What i hope is that one Day Victoria discover that Edwin knows about her job, and then they can speak freely.
 
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Biscardone

Newbie
May 2, 2020
96
475
Seems like you don't know how to read....
I know you're just trolling, but for the sake of clarity, and to dispel any notion that in fact there may be incest in the game, I'll quote a post by one of the authors themselves. It's a very interesting read, but TL;DR:

TD doesn't like harem or incest in stories.

They certainly can be in **a** game, just not this one. And it's not about not inviting people's bitching, because the absence of those traits will also cause people to whine. In fact, no matter what you do, someone will be dissatisfied with it. So, the best thing developers can do is tailor the game to both their personal tastes and what's appropriate for the story they want to tell.

And speaking to my taste, I just don't like harems or incest in stories.

Generally speaking, the MC convincing five women to love and be monogamous solely to him stretches my personal suspension of disbelief a tad too thin in most cases, outside of more shlocky scenarios. It CAN work, but it doesn't suit the tone I want for Pale Carnations.

As for incest, it's usually cheaply done in my opinion, without any sense of weight to the taboo. To do it in a way that I'd be satisfied with, the scenario would have to support it and go in a direction I have no desire for it to go. Plus, I just don't find incest hot, even when done up like a steamy angst-ridden French movie. I did like Dreaming of Dana's approach to it, with the game's ultimate goal being to find a beard to conceal your relationship with your sister. For me, that sold the "society won't accept this" bit that most stories nominally bring up a couple of times but don't ever actually factor into the plot, but I'm also just a sucker for procedural elements.

Anyway, point is, a VN should be more than the sum of its tags, so nevermind what the player wants. Convince them of what you want.
 

Takkatakka

Engaged Member
Nov 11, 2022
2,545
7,070
Seems like you don't know how to read....
Is that so? All I told you was that they never planned for incest scenes with the mom, because the developers don't care for that and don't want it in their game as far as we know. So that wasn't their "original" idea for the game either.
 

MidnightKing

Member
Jun 27, 2017
457
2,470
I know you're just trolling, but for the sake of clarity, and to dispel any notion that in fact there may be incest in the game, I'll quote a post by one of the authors themselves. It's a very interesting read, but TL;DR:

TD doesn't like harem or incest in stories.
It makes me laugh a little because a lot of what the dev is saying there should just be common sense really, but reasonable takes are for maniacs after all. I'm a very avid harem game enjoyer who generally likes the incest tag and I whole-heartedly agree with their points.

There's definitely a lot of harem games that say "hey I want there to be a harem but idk how to make it make sense" so they say fuck it, provide an extremely uninspired explanation/setup, and move on to the rest of the game. Similarly, incest IS very cheaply done most of the time. I'm convinced most incest games throw it in there for attention, because it really is night and day when you play a game that actually planned for it and plays up that taboo feeling. I've almost flipped on the tag mostly because devs generally can't write a good incest plotline for shit it seems (but I digress).

Do I want to fuck our hot mom? Hell yeah. Would I want a harem with all the girls? Absolutely. But that isn't what the game is about, and I wouldn't want it to sacrifice its exceptional writing to make it happen.
 

Biscardone

Newbie
May 2, 2020
96
475
It makes me laugh a little because a lot of what the dev is saying there should just be common sense really, but reasonable takes are for maniacs after all. I'm a very avid harem game enjoyer who generally likes the incest tag and I whole-heartedly agree with their points.

There's definitely a lot of harem games that say "hey I want there to be a harem but idk how to make it make sense" so they say fuck it, provide an extremely uninspired explanation/setup, and move on to the rest of the game. Similarly, incest IS very cheaply done most of the time. I'm convinced most incest games throw it in there for attention, because it really is night and day when you play a game that actually planned for it and plays up that taboo feeling. I've almost flipped on the tag mostly because devs generally can't write a good incest plotline for shit it seems (but I digress).

Do I want to fuck our hot mom? Hell yeah. Would I want a harem with all the girls? Absolutely. But that isn't what the game is about, and I wouldn't want it to sacrifice its exceptional writing to make it happen.
Very much agreed! There's absolutely a space available for meaningful games exploring themes, maybe even expressing an opinion on them. Unfortunately, that's not what most games are trying to do. They are chasing trends, or attempting to maximize profit with popular fetishes - which is fine, but not particularly interesting to me. Incest in particular has seen a lot of popularity in recent years - see the truckload of clips marked as "sex with my sister / stepsister etc" on Pornhub and the like - and that's an interesting fact in itself, but not a fact explored in any meaningful way.

I'd very much like to play a game offering an interesting or unique view on those themes. Just spitballing, a story handling the complexity of the relationships inside a polycule, or the mires of maintaining a healthy open relationship. I don't mean dramas for drama's sake - just stories told by someone who likes to share their thoughts, ideas and perspectives. Just as TD and GIL are doing, playing on their strengths.
 
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