ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,368
13,971
Sure, it CAN be helped theoretically...like if TD wants to write it that way, he could without breaking the plausibility of the story.

The question is rather if that is the story he wants to tell. A story where everybody end up reasonable happy, with all three carnations being able to succeed or getting rid of their problem. And so far I don't think that is the path the story will go, even if the player makes optimal decisions.
'Reasonably' being the key word. Is the option to, say, help Veronica come to terms with losing her gym and getting her in the right headspace to start over a reasonably happy ending if she doesn't win the contest? I think it could be, especially if it can be contrasted with a different ending where a beaten down Veronica becomes Samson's favorite house girl. It will depend both on what TD wants to happen and how he (and GIL, of course!) presents it.


Well, the more endings and variations the less fleshed out they'll likely be and/or the longer the development time will be.

The game already has the problem (and I'm not sure how it could be remedied in the way the updates are done at the moment), that depending on your choices some updates have very little content for you. So if you didn't follow the Veronica path, the last update had very little actual content for you. Now imagine the game have a lot of very different endings with very different scenes and you would have a situation in which you might not get any content from the last couple of update because "your" ending either was already implemented or is yet to come.

We'll simply have to see, what TD will come up with, but so far the game doesn't give me the vibe of a game that will have "perfect" ending if you just made the right choices.
Alternate endings are certainly labor intensive, but I don't think there's a worse place to skimp on dev time than the ending of a choice-based game. It's not only the final impression many players will have, it's the culmination of everything the game was building towards. You gotta stick the landing.

Mass Effect 3 did a lot of things wrong, but there's a reason it's the ending that became a meme.
 

Gab1

Member
Jul 9, 2018
122
193
Well, the more endings and variations the less fleshed out they'll likely be and/or the longer the development time will be.

The game already has the problem (and I'm not sure how it could be remedied in the way the updates are done at the moment), that depending on your choices some updates have very little content for you. So if you didn't follow the Veronica path, the last update had very little actual content for you. Now imagine the game have a lot of very different endings with very different scenes and you would have a situation in which you might not get any content from the last couple of update because "your" ending either was already implemented or is yet to come.

We'll simply have to see, what TD will come up with, but so far the game doesn't give me the vibe of a game that will have "perfect" ending if you just made the right choices.
True, and i hope we get a realistic ending for everybody, but an real ending doesnt has to be a sad, pessimistic or unhappy.
I think you could go for and ending kind of "life goes on" as true ending, Verónica losing the Gym but moving on, Rosalind working in the club but still her daughter is safe and her husband is fucked up, Felicia getting divorce but winning a place in the club, all three Girls leaving the MC behind but he end up with Killian, Mina and Hana, it is a nice ending for me.
What i hope is that one Day Victoria discover that Edwin knows about her job, and then they can speak freely.
 
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Biscardone

Member
May 2, 2020
104
515
Seems like you don't know how to read....
I know you're just trolling, but for the sake of clarity, and to dispel any notion that in fact there may be incest in the game, I'll quote a post by one of the authors themselves. It's a very interesting read, but TL;DR:

TD doesn't like harem or incest in stories.

They certainly can be in **a** game, just not this one. And it's not about not inviting people's bitching, because the absence of those traits will also cause people to whine. In fact, no matter what you do, someone will be dissatisfied with it. So, the best thing developers can do is tailor the game to both their personal tastes and what's appropriate for the story they want to tell.

And speaking to my taste, I just don't like harems or incest in stories.

Generally speaking, the MC convincing five women to love and be monogamous solely to him stretches my personal suspension of disbelief a tad too thin in most cases, outside of more shlocky scenarios. It CAN work, but it doesn't suit the tone I want for Pale Carnations.

As for incest, it's usually cheaply done in my opinion, without any sense of weight to the taboo. To do it in a way that I'd be satisfied with, the scenario would have to support it and go in a direction I have no desire for it to go. Plus, I just don't find incest hot, even when done up like a steamy angst-ridden French movie. I did like Dreaming of Dana's approach to it, with the game's ultimate goal being to find a beard to conceal your relationship with your sister. For me, that sold the "society won't accept this" bit that most stories nominally bring up a couple of times but don't ever actually factor into the plot, but I'm also just a sucker for procedural elements.

Anyway, point is, a VN should be more than the sum of its tags, so nevermind what the player wants. Convince them of what you want.
 

Takkatakka

Engaged Member
Nov 11, 2022
2,934
9,239
Seems like you don't know how to read....
Is that so? All I told you was that they never planned for incest scenes with the mom, because the developers don't care for that and don't want it in their game as far as we know. So that wasn't their "original" idea for the game either.
 

MidnightKing

Member
Jun 27, 2017
484
2,791
I know you're just trolling, but for the sake of clarity, and to dispel any notion that in fact there may be incest in the game, I'll quote a post by one of the authors themselves. It's a very interesting read, but TL;DR:

TD doesn't like harem or incest in stories.
It makes me laugh a little because a lot of what the dev is saying there should just be common sense really, but reasonable takes are for maniacs after all. I'm a very avid harem game enjoyer who generally likes the incest tag and I whole-heartedly agree with their points.

There's definitely a lot of harem games that say "hey I want there to be a harem but idk how to make it make sense" so they say fuck it, provide an extremely uninspired explanation/setup, and move on to the rest of the game. Similarly, incest IS very cheaply done most of the time. I'm convinced most incest games throw it in there for attention, because it really is night and day when you play a game that actually planned for it and plays up that taboo feeling. I've almost flipped on the tag mostly because devs generally can't write a good incest plotline for shit it seems (but I digress).

Do I want to fuck our hot mom? Hell yeah. Would I want a harem with all the girls? Absolutely. But that isn't what the game is about, and I wouldn't want it to sacrifice its exceptional writing to make it happen.
 

Biscardone

Member
May 2, 2020
104
515
It makes me laugh a little because a lot of what the dev is saying there should just be common sense really, but reasonable takes are for maniacs after all. I'm a very avid harem game enjoyer who generally likes the incest tag and I whole-heartedly agree with their points.

There's definitely a lot of harem games that say "hey I want there to be a harem but idk how to make it make sense" so they say fuck it, provide an extremely uninspired explanation/setup, and move on to the rest of the game. Similarly, incest IS very cheaply done most of the time. I'm convinced most incest games throw it in there for attention, because it really is night and day when you play a game that actually planned for it and plays up that taboo feeling. I've almost flipped on the tag mostly because devs generally can't write a good incest plotline for shit it seems (but I digress).

Do I want to fuck our hot mom? Hell yeah. Would I want a harem with all the girls? Absolutely. But that isn't what the game is about, and I wouldn't want it to sacrifice its exceptional writing to make it happen.
Very much agreed! There's absolutely a space available for meaningful games exploring themes, maybe even expressing an opinion on them. Unfortunately, that's not what most games are trying to do. They are chasing trends, or attempting to maximize profit with popular fetishes - which is fine, but not particularly interesting to me. Incest in particular has seen a lot of popularity in recent years - see the truckload of clips marked as "sex with my sister / stepsister etc" on Pornhub and the like - and that's an interesting fact in itself, but not a fact explored in any meaningful way.

I'd very much like to play a game offering an interesting or unique view on those themes. Just spitballing, a story handling the complexity of the relationships inside a polycule, or the mires of maintaining a healthy open relationship. I don't mean dramas for drama's sake - just stories told by someone who likes to share their thoughts, ideas and perspectives. Just as TD and GIL are doing, playing on their strengths.
 

cichol

Newbie
Jul 31, 2021
25
181
It makes me laugh a little because a lot of what the dev is saying there should just be common sense really, but reasonable takes are for maniacs after all. I'm a very avid harem game enjoyer who generally likes the incest tag and I whole-heartedly agree with their points.

There's definitely a lot of harem games that say "hey I want there to be a harem but idk how to make it make sense" so they say fuck it, provide an extremely uninspired explanation/setup, and move on to the rest of the game. Similarly, incest IS very cheaply done most of the time. I'm convinced most incest games throw it in there for attention, because it really is night and day when you play a game that actually planned for it and plays up that taboo feeling. I've almost flipped on the tag mostly because devs generally can't write a good incest plotline for shit it seems (but I digress).

Do I want to fuck our hot mom? Hell yeah. Would I want a harem with all the girls? Absolutely. But that isn't what the game is about, and I wouldn't want it to sacrifice its exceptional writing to make it happen.
100% agree. I've seen people ask for pregnancy when it would mess up the pace of the story. My favorite is when people bitch about being unable to rename the MC or demand a sex scene with a character that wouldn't make sense yet.
 

aaachris

Member
Oct 26, 2019
231
772
Do I want to fuck our hot mom? Hell yeah. Would I want a harem with all the girls? Absolutely. But that isn't what the game is about, and I wouldn't want it to sacrifice its exceptional writing to make it happen.
Am I the rare one skipping all the wall of texts for the sex scene lol. Go read a f'ing book for exceptional writing tbh.
 
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Takkatakka

Engaged Member
Nov 11, 2022
2,934
9,239
Well that last review from Kryapa is rather peculiar, innit?
After reading it I immediately thought of this
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Yeah, stuff like that always baffles me. It's like buying FIFA...or FC 24 and whining about the fact that you have to play football/soccer in it to win the game. :KEK:

Apart from the fact, that there is no rape in it, especially not any rape by the MC...so it is even factually wrong. :FacePalm:
 

dolfe67

Forum Fanatic
Apr 25, 2020
5,004
13,901
Reviews are subjectives, as long as he explains what he didn't like for the same minded people. It's just one bad review out of hundreds good.

The sex competition is not avoidable since it's the core of the game. But it's not rape, it's prostitution. And the MC does most of the work in the different trials. He's not the only one though
 
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