VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Ottoeight]

Good news everyone! We got a new dev diary today!

Spoiler: Dev Diary 71

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As noted, TD and GIL have talked themselves into creating an impressive 148 statics, 17 animations and 4582 words in the thirteen days since their last reporting date - an average of ~80 statics, 9.2 animations and 2470 words per week. Overall, that brings their average to roughly 96 statics, 3.2 animations and 2200 words per week since work on Chapter 4 Update 4 began. Here are the charts for Week 26:

Spoiler: Charting Those Skybound Animations

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I said last time that GIL would need to hit an average rate of 7 animations per week to complete the estimated animation totals needed for Felicia's date by the start of March. Well, he turned on the jets and cranked it well past that mark, only to find the target number had jumped up at nearly the same rate. I think we've all been there at some point.

On the plus side, this a very much a first world problem. Spending time on high quality content that clearly has the devs excited is a very good thing for the game as a whole. I'm sure we'll have lots of cool stuff to explore in the new update. The downside, of course, is that we have to wait a little longer for our present to arrive. If the new animation target finally sticks and GIL's supply of stimulants holds out, they could polish off the content a week late and still have a solid shot at releasing the update in March. If their enthusiasm for the scene continues unabated and the target continues to climb, I think it's far more likely we'll see an April release. Not only will it take longer to start the polish/testing phase, but the rapid pace of development makes it more likely there will be glitches that need fixing.

In my (admittedly subjective) experience, it's far safer to bet on the target number climbing than holding steady, so I suspect we're a little further away from the finish line than we were hoping. But it is at least in sight, and I'd much rather the devs make the best product they can rather than cut corners to meet an arbitrary deadline. Felicia and Mina aren't my preferred cups of tea, but they're both fun characters with a lot of interactions that could be explored, so I'm happy to wait and maximize that exploration potential.

Realistically, with the final chapter still ahead this shouldn't be the last time the devs get excited about a big scene, so we might as well get used to waiting a bit extra. We can judge whether the wait was worth it once we've seen the results, but so far TD and GIL have given us no cause for concern on that front.

That said, please don't work GIL to death, TD. We still need him for Hana and Veronica's future content.

So April it is.

Bro, will ch4 up4 be the biggest update ever (words, renders and animations)?

 

[YuNobi1]

A week and a half is more than enough in-game time, *if* the characters are willing to go there. The MC clearly would be if we make the right choices. Grace is harder to read, but given how detached she seems to be I could see it happening if she thought it would be done with absolute discretion (and gave her what she wanted).

The real question is what effect it would have on the larger story: we shouldn't spend time on it just to see the MC fuck a new girl, it should have some lasting effect on the MC and/or Killian. There are plenty of ways that could play out, so I do think there are decent odds it will happen.

Now there's no question it will take time to create Grace's scenes if they do happen, and plenty of us (myself included) would prefer to spend that time elsewhere. But as long as it has a bigger impact on the story, I'm perfectly willing to wait and then largely ignore Grace's content when I play. Some branches will appeal to us more than others, which is why it's good to have the choice.

Of course the flip side to that is the devs need to create more content for the same 'length' of game. That's why we should expect development time to get longer as we get closer to the climax of the story. Such is the nature of choices in a game.

The timing issue isn't about the characters, it's about the storytellers, and the pacing of their game. In the last update, they confessed to struggling with how much content they could allow in an in-game day, and it still be "realistic". Their main concern was making too much happen in a single day, so they are cognizant of pacing content across believable time periods, and therefore how long to wait before returning to plot threads (e.g., Rose's loan shark arc pauses for 5-ish days before progressing).

 

[Ottoeight]

The timing issue isn't about the characters, it's about the storytellers, and the pacing of their game. In the last update, they confessed to struggling with how much content they could allow in an in-game day, and it still be "realistic". Their main concern was making too much happen in a single day, so they are cognizant pacing content across believable time periods, and therefore how long to wait before returning to plot threads (e.g., Rose's loan shark arc pauses for 5 days-ish before progressing).

You got the point. A day has 24 hrs only, after all. And Edwin needs to sleep, eat, and, most of all, work for the club, too.

But I guess that some players must see our Edwin pal nailing just another totally side character who appeared in 2 scenes only at any cost in spite of the main story and the main characters. They just need it.

 

[bo77om]

That said, please don't work GIL to death, TD. We still need him for Hana and Veronica's future content.

Amen brother

after the period of inspiration and extensive creative process, usually there could be a creative block/stupor, which will lead to more waiting time between the episodes and/or burnout of the creators.

anyway, just reiterating the qm - GIL, TD, don't work to exhaustion, the AVN world needs y'all

 

[ename144]

So April it is.

Bro, will ch4 up4 be the biggest update ever (words, renders and animations)?

No, you can kind of see it in the historical charts, but Chapter 4 Update 4 is currently second to Chapter 3 Update 4 in statics and words, and third to Chapter 3 Update 2 (followed by Ch3 Up4) in animations. That's still noteworthy, though, since Ch3 Up4 was an Exhibition update, and Ch3 Up2 was when TD was sidetracked by the real world and GIL spent the time retroactively adding then-new animation technology to the earlier chapters. This is much bigger than normal for a mid-week update.

Spoiler: Raw Numbers

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Will it be able to leapfrog those older updates? Possibly for animations, but I would be surprised if it passed Ch3 Up4 in the other metrics.

The timing issue isn't about the characters, it's about the storytellers, and the pacing of their game. In the last update, they confessed to struggling with how much content they could allow in an in-game day, and it still be "realistic". Their main concern was making too much happen in a single day, so they are cognizant pacing content across believable time periods, and therefore how long to wait before returning to plot threads (e.g., Rose's loan shark arc pauses for 5-ish days before progressing).

I don't disagree with the concern, but as I said, I can see the characters being sufficiently predisposed to the idea that a week is more than enough time to get it done. Grace is still largely a blank slate, and most of what we know is that she's not a great person. We don't need to waste time with a long 'corruption' montage, we just need to reveal that she'd be down for such a thing if the circumstances were right, then instigate those circumstances.

My point is that time isn't a limiting factor here, *if* such a scene fits where the story is going. (If it doesn't, well, it wouldn't matter how long we have left.)

 

[Takkatakka]

It might be heresy, but since a certain other game also is aiming for an update at the end of March and I don't have much time then anyway, I wouldn't be too miffed if the release might move into early April, to be honest.

 

[TD1900]

It might be heresy, but since a certain other game also is aiming for an update at the end of March and I don't have much time then anyway, I wouldn't be too miffed if the release might move into early April, to be honest.

In the case we don't make it, I will direct all hate mail to your inbox.

EDIT: On the subject of Grace, don't take this as a confirmation one way or another, but the magic of making things up in your head is that you can twist things in any direction you want in service of both plot and "plot." Take for example the Alice scene in the last update, wholly unnecessary in the grand scheme of things, but it can be excused as supporting both past and future elements of Ian's development, as well as my boner. That last one being what life is really about.

 

[Nick198]

In the case we don't make it, I will direct all hate mail to your inbox.

EDIT: On the subject of Grace, don't take this as a confirmation one way or another, but the magic of making things up in your head is that you can twist things in any direction you want in service of both plot and "plot." Take for example the Alice scene in the last update, wholly unnecessary in the grand scheme of things, but it can be excused as supporting both past and future elements of Ian's development, as well as my boner. That last one being what life is really about.

Bold, it's still reasonable not to update for so long, right? I want a whip to whip behind you, update me quickly

 

[se20299]

To all the NTR haters, if you even have to ask, this game isn't for you. Although this game has no NTR at all, the NTR complainers always have a 10x wider definition that it actually is. Three of the LIs are literal PROSTITUTES. They will do sexual things with other people. Please stop clogging up the thread.

As for the update, we'll just have to make peace with longer waiting times. The jump in scope and quality has been too big for it to stay in the 2-4 month range, and we can safely assume the next update will be 6+ months too. TD and GIL haven't given me cause to doubt them so far, and I'm confident that this update will be a smash hit too. I just hope the game finishes before it reaches Being a DIK level of bloat, because that thing won't be done by 2030.

As for myself, I can only pray for more Vicky content in the upcoming update. Please don't let me and my pickle down, TD.

 

[YuNobi1]

To all the NTR haters, if you even have to ask, this game isn't for you. Although this game has no NTR at all, the NTR complainers always have a 10x wider definition that it actually is. Three of the LIs are literal PROSTITUTES. They will do sexual things with other people. Please stop clogging up the thread.

As for the update, we'll just have to make peace with longer waiting times. The jump in scope and quality has been too big for it to stay in the 2-4 month range, and we can safely assume the next update will be 6+ months too. TD and GIL haven't given me cause to doubt them so far, and I'm confident that this update will be a smash hit too. I just hope the game finishes before it reaches Being a DIK level of bloat, because that thing won't be done by 2030.

As for myself, I can only pray for more Vicky content in the upcoming update. Please don't let me and my pickle down, TD.

I hate NTR, but my classification pretty much lines up with cuckold, so I don’t consider PC NTR. The only man really any of the women CHOOSE to fuck/get fucked by IS the MC: Rose initiates the flirt, deal, and "you haven't really been using me like I offered." Veronica demands "satisfaction" if you get her all hot and bothered, and Felicia has a whole non-Club relationship with you, and offers to become your sugar momma. Kathleen can offer "services" that she has clearly not offered to Ian or Darius (or Jacob and Warren, or August and Chuck). Harper volunteered/offered to help with your birthday present (or volunteers a later present), and Dahlia's offer, is more than just "a cover".

 

[bluewolfzer]

eyo, pale carnations just beat eternum in weighted ratings

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

To all the NTR haters, if you even have to ask, this game isn't for you. Although this game has no NTR at all, the NTR complainers always have a 10x wider definition that it actually is. Three of the LIs are literal PROSTITUTES. They will do sexual things with other people. Please stop clogging up the thread.

As for the update, we'll just have to make peace with longer waiting times. The jump in scope and quality has been too big for it to stay in the 2-4 month range, and we can safely assume the next update will be 6+ months too. TD and GIL haven't given me cause to doubt them so far, and I'm confident that this update will be a smash hit too. I just hope the game finishes before it reaches Being a DIK level of bloat, because that thing won't be done by 2030.

As for myself, I can only pray for more Vicky content in the upcoming update. Please don't let me and my pickle down, TD.

While i mostly agree with the post i don't think we are in any danger of Pale Carnations going that other game route of one update per year.

 

[MAGO-DAG]

To all the NTR haters, if you even have to ask, this game isn't for you. Although this game has no NTR at all, the NTR complainers always have a 10x wider definition that it actually is. Three of the LIs are literal PROSTITUTES. They will do sexual things with other people. Please stop clogging up the thread.

I have nothing against NTR, but I’m not a fan of them either. My problem is different, it's cuckolding, it's not my style, I usually play some NTR when it's really well implemented, I like Netori the most, I can play NTR when they have an intriguing plot, jealousy, betrayal, cheating. It’s more interesting to play when there is no compulsion or when there are choices. everyone plays what they like, NTR or vanilla and harem...

such disputes cannot be avoided on the f95 site...

 

[DougsLeftNut]

While i mostly agree with the post i don't think we are in any danger of Pale Carnations going that other game route of one update per year.

Let's be fair here... there's dozens of games currently going that route.

 

[Pagoramix]

Well, to be fair, makin a playable version of a game every now and then sure slow things up on the long term. Of course you have probably heard of agile development and how it's all about short release windows. Well, thats pretty much shit, of course the deadline is a weight and drastically change how you're doing things.
On the other hand, the peculiar niche we are in ain't much trustworthy, on any side. Regular release shows that the project is alive and going well all the while gathering people around it.
But once trust is there and people are on payroll, there is not much reason to keep on short release windows. For all i know, even messing up a release won't be that bad at this point.
And you know what? It's actually true for the whole game industry

 

[TD1900]

Well, to be fair, makin a playable version of a game every now and then sure slow things up on the long term. Of course you have probably heard of agile development and how it's all about short release windows. Well, thats pretty much shit, of course the deadline is a weight and drastically change how you're doing things.
On the other hand, the peculiar niche we are in ain't much trustworthy, on any side. Regular release shows that the project is alive and going well all the while gathering people around it.
But once trust is there and people are on payroll, there is not much reason to keep on short release windows. For all i know, even messing up a release won't be that bad at this point.
And you know what? It's actually true for the whole game industry

This is true. We kill 1-2 weeks after the creative stuff is wrapped up on polishing, administrative things, and just chilling. That's the downside of a serialized format, but obviously this kind of job wouldn't exist without the iterative nature of the job. I believe 3-6 month window is the sweet spot, depending on the scope and context of the story.

Personally, we'd like to be closer to the 3-4 month range. I've said this in the thread before, but it's not about the optics of how long it takes, not that there isn't some of that spurring that desire. It's more about what we personally get out of finishing an update.

Releases, simply put, helps us renew our creative spirit. By the end of most updates, GIL is fucking dead and I'm full of self-doubt about the story's trajectory. So, people finally playing what we've been toiling away on is not only gratifying but helps reaffirm the project's direction.

The trick is balancing your creative zeal, managing growing standards, ignoring the nagging pull of perfectionism, all with finishing the damn thing. That is a work in progress, and one we are still aiming for even though we've failed this time around.

 

[MalkavianVamp]

Is this single girl path or harem?

 

[MAGO-DAG]

Is this single girl path or harem?

It's too early to talk about anything. but for now you can have fun with whoever you want. but I wouldn't say that the game is like a harem.

it's mostly brothel style and perverted.

 

[Ottoeight]

It's too early to talk about anything. but for now you can have fun with whoever you want. but I wouldn't say that the game is like a harem.

it's mostly brothel style and perverted.

You don't need to answer these dudes: the game has no harem tag.

Same with these ntr dudes: the game has no ntr tag. So why in the damn world they ask whether the game has ntr content and why you keep answering them.

 

[MAGO-DAG]

You don't need to answer these dudes: the game has no harem tag.

Same with these ntr dudes: the game has no ntr tag. So why in the damn world they ask whether the game has ntr content and why you keep answering them.

If I don't answer, they continue will fuck our brains...