- Sep 26, 2019
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Ok maybe if this was pretty woman or some other rom com I could see your point.
No redemption needed in this vn.
- Thread starter GIL3D
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No redemption needed in this vn.
- Jun 9, 2017
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fair enough but at the same time: is really that bad to love your job? You get extra day-offs and big paychecks, he gets sex with awesome women and he likes it.
- Jun 22, 2018
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Well,yes if your job implies humiliating desperate women(that are often tricked to become carnations by assholes *coff* Samson) in tons of different ways and you have at least a tiny bit of empathy
- Sep 26, 2019
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Everyone is different. I come to this vn for fantasy, not morality. I don't want it to end up like an after school special where everyone learns a lesson. Just my opinion
No need for redemptions 
So many game with good guys, time for being asshole
Mina, Hana, Felicia the top girls I can be kinda cool with them, but the others are for sex use only.
So many game with good guys, time for being asshole Mina, Hana, Felicia the top girls I can be kinda cool with them, but the others are for sex use only.
- Jun 9, 2017
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I think Kathleen hit the jackpot when she discovered that MC is a good caring guy...probably Ian cares about those desperate women but only as far as his job goes...while MC went the extra length and even invited them to have lunch together.
So yeah I still believe that Kathleen is maybe grooming MC to be the perfect director(or the best "assistant"), sadistic but caring, which FYI is what a decent BDSM-master should be, in the media we only see the whips, the ropes and the painful stuff...but the truth is, that a good BDSM-master is more like a dog-trainer, you praise them when they do good, you scold them when they do bad, so that they can learn the proper behaviour.
- Jun 22, 2018
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Just saying that an optional Killian development into being a better human being would be an interesting concept.
- Jun 9, 2017
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I think it's pretty clear that Ian represents the devil on the player's shoulder, with Hana (etc.) playing the angel. I think people telling themselves Ian is a good person are fooling themselves - he reveals early on that he chases other women in order to deliberately torment Mina, which makes her a more enthusiastic lay.
But the point, narratively, is that this game is attempting to serve two audiences: those who want to unleash their inner devil when they play, and those (with respect) who have moral qualms about playing a male dom game and want to tell themselves that they're not bad people for partaking in what is objectively a horribly immoral exercise (making money from and assisting with the degradation of vulnerable women).
Ian serves a useful role by giving the player someone to emulate and become close to, if you're indulging the devil on your shoulder, and someone to resist and become adversarial to if you're indulging the angel on your shoulder (which is why in the latter route you steal his girlfriend).
P.S. Most games serve two audiences. See for a close analogy Estate: Dominate, where you can be a decent person who does his best to ensure that the other victims of the Sterns are protected and treated well, or you can be someone who's morally indistinguishable from your adversaries, playing the same games with both them and with their other victims whenever your available leverage gives you the opportunity. Neither is wrong, it's just about where your head is at in terms of what you enjoy.
P.P.S. When I was younger I was more conflicted about what I enjoy, but now that I've realized that as long as I treat real people with love, I can approach fictional situations with maximum heartlessness and savagery, I eschew the "I'm just a nice guy who's basically forced, forced, I tell you, to participate in this thing that secretly thrills me" paths that these games offer.
But the point, narratively, is that this game is attempting to serve two audiences: those who want to unleash their inner devil when they play, and those (with respect) who have moral qualms about playing a male dom game and want to tell themselves that they're not bad people for partaking in what is objectively a horribly immoral exercise (making money from and assisting with the degradation of vulnerable women).
Ian serves a useful role by giving the player someone to emulate and become close to, if you're indulging the devil on your shoulder, and someone to resist and become adversarial to if you're indulging the angel on your shoulder (which is why in the latter route you steal his girlfriend).
P.S. Most games serve two audiences. See for a close analogy Estate: Dominate, where you can be a decent person who does his best to ensure that the other victims of the Sterns are protected and treated well, or you can be someone who's morally indistinguishable from your adversaries, playing the same games with both them and with their other victims whenever your available leverage gives you the opportunity. Neither is wrong, it's just about where your head is at in terms of what you enjoy.
P.P.S. When I was younger I was more conflicted about what I enjoy, but now that I've realized that as long as I treat real people with love, I can approach fictional situations with maximum heartlessness and savagery, I eschew the "I'm just a nice guy who's basically forced, forced, I tell you, to participate in this thing that secretly thrills me" paths that these games offer.
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- Jun 22, 2018
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I actually like him the way he is and my MC is even a worse asshole than him,I was just headcanoning another possible path in his development
It's weird reading this thread and seeing people say things like "MC is a better person than Ian" when in fact my MC has been an absolutely ruthless bastard to basically every woman he's come across.
- Jun 9, 2017
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i think MC can choose to be that ruthless bastard (thanks to who plays the game)
- Sep 8, 2020
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While Ian comes across as a likeable enough childhood friend of the mc, his penchant for bedding almost every woman he comes across with no regard to Mina’s feelings makes me have zero motivation for me as the mc to reform him or make him a better man. The game is focused on my mc, his motivations, his morality and ultimately finding a balance of all his desires (good and bad).
Just like Ian had no conscience about seducing and corrupting his childhood caretaker, I have no interest in turning him into the kind of man Mina deserves. As far as I’m concerned my mc will continue being a friend and possibly a shoulder to lean on with regards to both Mina and Hana and just let the chips fall where they may.
This game is really well done, the story, the characters, the environment, the soundtrack, everything is well built. The girls are all beautiful and intriguing it is impossible to choose between them. Congratulations to the creators. I will soon become your supporter in patreon.
- Sep 8, 2020
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I agree. I’m approaching this game as someone still a little traumatized by what mc’s mother allowed to happen for the sake of her son, for a better life, and is someone who is still sees himself as a good person who’s made bad decisions in the past but has his future planned out and is seeing his job at the club as nothing more than a means to an end.
That said, he’s still very much sympathetic to the ladies participating in the carnation event, and unlike Kathleen (who sadly I was attracted to until her sadistic nature revealed itself) he actually still has a soul and is still trying to be himself without letting all temptation completely corrupt him.
- Jan 14, 2021
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I never knew this about myself but I think I'm slightly attracted to sadistic women lmao. I wasn't interested in Kathleen at all until she started showing her psycho bitch side oops
Right, but what I'm saying is that simply by stating "Ian should reform and become a better man", you're putting yourself squarely in the "role-playing a nice person" half of this game's intended audience. For those of us in the "role-playing a bad person" half, Ian doesn't need to be reformed - he's closer to a role model.
So, the devs have created two ways to handle the "Ian situation". If you want to be evil, then Ian is a friend and partner-in-crime. If you want be virtuous, then Ian is an enemy, which is why the "good path" is the one that gives you the opportunity to seduce Mina away from him.
Francesca Le taught me that I go nuts for women who are dominant/sadistic toward other women but submissive/respectful toward men. Kathleen's kind of that. I fell for her in the scene where she absolutely verbally destroys the bodybuilder and the ambitious mother in her office, more or less for your benefit.
- Jan 14, 2021
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mmm I don't think it's that black and white. Even if you want to play as the "virtuous" MC, you can still empathize with Ian and see that you could easily fall down the path that he took and, instead of abandoning your childhood friend, you could work on helping him become a little less "evil."
That being said, I'm not fully sold on Ian even being that evil; he's just a young douchebag who views most women as sexual objects. While that isn't how you should view them, and he definitely does some morally bad things, he isn't evil. He's just young and stupid.