VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Takkatakka]

Yeah, if someone views women with derision to begin with then getting cheated on is only going to serve as a "proof" that they're right to think so badly of them all along, instead of a reason for some self-reflection.

Could be, but I'm not even sure that is fully the case with him. It mighty simply be that he hasn't been together with woman he actually has feelings for.

I think the most telling of his scenes is pretty early in the game when Edwin goes out with him, Mina and Felicia and he deliberately pisses Mina off, because that means she will put more effort into the sex with him later. He so doesn't care about making her feel bad, he just thinks about himself. So...might be the case that he just sees women as a tool and the Club really won't help him getting rid off that mentality.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

The most telling thing that shows how Ian feels about Mina is that when they finally break up, he basically shrugs. Mina is a diamond in the rough and ole dude treats her like shit for no reason other than because he can

 

[Takkatakka]

The most telling thing that shows how edwin Ian feels about Mina is that when they finally break up, he basically shrugs. Mina is a diamond in the rough and ole dude treats her like shit for no reason other than because he can

/fify



But yeah, the rest is correct.

 

[Ragnar]

Do you want to destroy Ian? Show him the porn of Edwin's mom

 

[Takkatakka]

Do you want to destroy Ian? Show him the porn of Edwin's mom

Are we sure he doesn't know that porn already? Edwin found it on his own, right?

 

[Ragnar]

Are we sure he doesn't know that porn already? Edwin found it on his own, right?

Ian treats women like bitches but not Edwin's mother. On the other hand Edwin is his brother from another mother. Wouldn't he has said something about the videos? Like bro, there are videos of your mom out there, let's try to take it down or smth.

 

[Takkatakka]

Ian treats women like bitches but not Edwin's mother. On the other hand Edwin is his brother from another mother. Wouldn't he has said something about the videos? Like bro, there are videos of your mom out there, let's try to take it down or smth.

I don't know...would he really be the guy for a talk like that?

As far as I remember we simply don't know if he...well...knows of the videos. So my posting is speculation, that much is true.

 

[ename144]

The most telling thing that shows how Ian feels about Mina is that when they finally break up, he basically shrugs. Mina is a diamond in the rough and ole dude treats her like shit for no reason other than because he can

I disagree. I mean, Ian shrugs, sure, but the shrug is performative; it's him acting the way he thinks he's supposed to act. We see clearly in Chapter 4 Update 1 that Mina's break-up *does* bother him, even if he's far too self-absorbed to understand why.

Spoiler: Killian Drops The Act For a Minute

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Of course, none of this excuses the way he treats Mina; Ian was a real asshole to her. But it does affect the way I treat Ian, because it points to the fact that his horrible behavior is something he LEARNED to do. If he learned to do it he can learn to undo it, and the MC is one of the few people who could help make Ian a better person.

So I try not to reinforce Ian's cynical attitude - and from that angle helping Mina cheat on him is a step in the wrong direction. YMMV, of course.

 

[Leinad_Sevla]

View attachment 4250008

The simple fact is he never really cared for her to begin with. For him she was somewhat of a trophy girlfriend to satisfy his needs and to show her off, but he never seemed to have any problems with hurting her feelings or cheating on her. I can understand the "bros before hoes" mentality and I would normally agree, but Ian really had it coming. If anything it would actually do him good to be cheated on and to understand how that feels, but I doubt he would learn from that anyway.

Could be, but I'm not even sure that is fully the case with him. It mighty simply be that he hasn't been together with woman he actually has feelings for.

I think the most telling of his scenes is pretty early in the game when Edwin goes out with him, Mina and Felicia and he deliberately pisses Mina off, because that means she will put more effort into the sex with him later. He so doesn't care about making her feel bad, he just thinks about himself. So...might be the case that he just sees women as a tool and the Club really won't help him getting rid off that mentality.

Being around the club and surrounded by the type of people that frequent the club has definitely fucked up the way he views women. Mina seems to be more of a pet than a person to him. It´s like he think women don´t have feelings or personalities, they´re just meat with holes for him to use. He also has problems at home. I´m not remembering the details, but I know his mom definitely messed him up in the head with the way she raised him. I´m with you, I doubt he will learn anything.

 

[ffive]

So I try not to reinforce Ian's cynical attitude - and from that angle helping Mina cheat on him is a step in the wrong direction.

I could see it as possible argument if Mina actually told Ian that she has cheated on him. But she doesn't. Unless Edwin for some reason decides to break that news to Ian himself, his potential decision to get involved with Mina has no impact on Ian's takeaway and subsequent behavior/conclusions.

(plus, if the only thing Ian would supposedly take from the fact that the girl he's been cheating on for months has returned the favor once she learned about it is "reinforcing his cynical attitude" then honestly, fuck that self-absorbed manchild. I have zero interest in coddling him and spoiling him even more than he already was by everyone around. If that's his learned behavior, then it's not like shielding him from consequences of his own actions is going to make him see any reason to change his ways, if he can continue to be a dipshit and just get away with it with nothing but pat on the head)

 

[ename144]

I could see it as possible argument if Mina actually told Ian that she has cheated on him. But she doesn't. Unless Edwin for some reason decides to break that news to Ian himself, his potential decision to get involved with Mina has no impact on Ian's takeaway and subsequent behavior/conclusions.

Eh, just because Mina and the MC won't tell him directly doesn't mean Ian won't learn about it. These secrets have a way of coming out, especially since the MC and Mina continue to see each other afterwards and Ian drops by unannounced all the time. Plus, the MC's so caught up in debating his own morality that I think it's a good habit to act in ways that reinforce the side I favor.

Of course, it helps that I'm a lot more interested in Veronica than I am in Mina.

 

[ffive]

Eh, just because Mina and the MC won't tell him directly doesn't mean Ian won't learn about it. These secrets have a way of coming out, especially since the MC and Mina continue to see each other afterwards and Ian drops by unannounced all the time.

Well, Edwin and Mina seeing each other afterwards is a development that can also happen even if Edwin didn't go along with Mina's request. And i really don't see either of them going out of their way to tell Ian that "by the way, we started hooking up few days before Mina told you it's over, instead of few days after". Even if they did, by that point it's going to be old news and it's not like Ian did any soul-searching that such news could somehow undo. So... eh.

 

[NukaCola]

Can anyone share next update previews from patreon. How many % are done? Can we expected a update this year or its going to be 2025.

 

[Jday]

Well, Edwin and Mina seeing each other afterwards is a development that can also happen even if Edwin didn't go along with Mina's request. And i really don't see either of them going out of their way to tell Ian that "by the way, we started hooking up few days before Mina told you it's over, instead of few days after". Even if they did, by that point it's going to be old news and it's not like Ian did any soul-searching that such news could somehow undo. So... eh.

That's still a low blow. Imagine learning that your best friend hooked up with your ex RIGHT AFTER you broke up. It would certainly leave a bad aftertaste in my mouth. I could still imagine Ian reacting somewhat positively since he's so attached to MC, but it could also be beginning of unnecessary drama.

 

[Takkatakka]

We see clearly in Chapter 4 Update 1 that Mina's break-up *does* bother him, even if he's far too self-absorbed to understand why.

The question would be: Why does it "bother" him?

Is he actually kinda heartbroken without even realizing it? Is it more annoyance that she found out? In the end he didn't even really tried to hide it anymore, so he basically sabotaged that relationship himself in more ways than one, almost like he wanted her to find out.

Might be just my bias to get all the Mina scenes, but Ian really has no ground to stand on to blame anyone else. Hell, if he wouldn't be so self-absorbed, that he didn't even care to support Mina to get the role, she and Edwin would've never gotten close to begin with.

 

[Elduriel]

The question would be: Why does it "bother" him?

Is he actually kinda heartbroken without even realizing it? Is it more annoyance that she found out? In the end he didn't even really tried to hide it anymore, so he basically sabotaged that relationship himself in more ways than one, almost like he wanted her to find out.

Might be just my bias to get all the Mina scenes, but Ian really has no ground to stand on to blame anyone else. Hell, if he wouldn't be so self-absorbed, that he didn't even care to support Mina to get the role, she and Edwin would've never gotten close to begin with.

oh he doesn't blame anyone else, that's obvious from his conversations. I think what bothers him is after some self-reflection he realizes what kind of person he is. Probably not enough to change himself for the better, but who knows.

 

[Ottoeight]

The question would be: Why does it "bother" him?

Is he actually kinda heartbroken without even realizing it? Is it more annoyance that she found out? In the end he didn't even really tried to hide it anymore, so he basically sabotaged that relationship himself in more ways than one, almost like he wanted her to find out.

Might be just my bias to get all the Mina scenes, but Ian really has no ground to stand on to blame anyone else. Hell, if he wouldn't be so self-absorbed, that he didn't even care to support Mina to get the role, she and Edwin would've never gotten close to begin with.

Because he has always been the one who leaves. Now he is the one who has been left.

Simple as that.

 

[Takkatakka]

oh he doesn't blame anyone else, that's obvious from his conversations. I think what bothers him is after some self-reflection he realizes what kind of person he is. Probably not enough to change himself for the better, but who knows.

Right now he doesn't...which would be a first step, I guess. But if he would find out what's going on between Edwin and Mina?

Because he has always been the one who leaves. Now he is the one who has been left.

Simple as that.

Yeah, might be as well...

 

[Ozymandias037]

oh he doesn't blame anyone else, that's obvious from his conversations. I think what bothers him is after some self-reflection he realizes what kind of person he is. Probably not enough to change himself for the better, but who knows.

I agree with this. It's pretty clear IMO that Ian realizes that he treated Mina terribly and feels kind of bad about it, and at some level he understands that their relationship was never going to last because he was treating her bad.

I think there's also a certain amount of self-hate and/or self-sabotage going on, whether or not Ian is aware of it. His dialog reads to me like he feels, somewhere deep inside, that Mina deserves better than him, so he lies and cheats and pushes her away. But he also recognizes how good she is, and somewhere inside him he's mourning not only their relationship, but the fact that he is the one who destroyed it because Mina was too good for him. Hence Edwin's mention of self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Ottoeight]

oh he doesn't blame anyone else, that's obvious from his conversations. I think what bothers him is after some self-reflection he realizes what kind of person he is. Probably not enough to change himself for the better, but who knows.

This, too.

The Ian storyline has two variants:

- your "best buddies" score is really high, therefore you can trigger the option and tell him that he needs to self-reflect: he will sleep with his maid, this way;
- you won't/can't tell him that he needs to self-reflect: he will sleep with the hairdresser, this way.