VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ReservoirCreature]

Spoiler: it literally doesn't matter. The game doesn't record your choice, and the only difference is that Tell her it's not pathetic. option reduces Edwin's asshole score by one point.

So what you're sayin' is, that it does matter?

 

[Beduin123]

So what you're sayin' is, that it does matter?

There are many choices that differ only by some renders and dialogue. On the other hand there are choices that change everything but they are normally felt.
The easiest way if you want to save your time and see the best choices is to play with the official WT pdf from the OP.

 

[ffive]

So what you're sayin' is, that it does matter?

Not really, since Edwin's asshole score can be fully adjusted one way or the other outside of this one instance.

 

[ReservoirCreature]

Not really, since Edwin's asshole score can be fully adjusted one way or the other outside of this one instance.

I get that any of the choices that affect those score values only matter in aggregate, and no single choice changes the story very much. But I don't think a score choice is meaningless just because you have ample opportunity to change course later on. It's like saying an opportunity to get $1 doesn't matter because you'll have a lot of opportunities to make $1 in the future. $1 is not a lot of money, but if you don't take each opportunity to earn $1, you'll end up with significantly less money than you could have had.

 

[ffive]

It's like saying an opportunity to get $1 doesn't matter because you'll have a lot of opportunities to make $1 in the future. $1 is not a lot of money, but if you don't take each opportunity to earn $1, you'll end up with significantly less money than you could have had.

On the other hand, if you do take every other opportunity to earn $1 then this particular single choice worth value of $1 will be only a minute fraction of your total funds, and as such of no practical importance. But yes, if you absolutely have to argue this point then technically this choice is not literally meaningless.

It is "only" meaningless in the context of what impact it has on Victoria's decision to date people online. Which is: none.

 

[Ozymandias037]

It doesn't address my question at all. As earlier discussion proved, nobody here has a slightest idea about what that "knowledge" could be and how it could bring her the desired financial independence. Let's wait and see what the Devs have in their sleeve.

And regarding the art school, as somebody wrote here recently, forget about it. It is dead by now anyway.

That's your take on it. I wouldn't mind. Victoria is hot and Edwin is very kinky But I realize that it's unlikely with this game being on Patreon or wherever it is. Though on the more serious not that may not fit the story.

Networking with rich people is incredibly easy to monetize. Networking in general is easy to monetize. People don't directly make money from networking and influence the way you seem to want an explanation for. That's not how it works.

People don't go to Ivy League schools for the education, they go for the reputation boost and alumni networks. The club would work the same way. By spending social time with the clientele of the club, Felicia gains:

• Potential investors for any business venture
• Opportunities to invest in other members' business ventures
• Inside information about a host of subjects, from a range of different people
• A certain amount of intangible bonding based on shared....experiences, let's call it
• Potential favors from club members. Just some examples off the top of my head:
  • "Hey, come mingle at this event I'm hosting to add a little sparkle and cachet and put it on the radar."
  • The Chief of Police is a member. Never get a speeding ticket again!
  • "Hey Samson, my cousin's brother's kid's friend's mother-in-law is an enormous fan. Mind signing this poster?"
• Worst case scenario, blackmail material that she can use either:
  • Offensively (give me what I want or I tell the world what you do on weekends)
  • Defensively (keep fucking with me and I tell the world what you do on weekends)
• And, of course, the art thing. The school she wanted to save is gone, yeah, but the money and influence she'd have access to as a member would smooth the way for creating a new one. Or a gallery. Or boost a specific artist she loves and get others to buy their shit.

And plenty of other things besides. The idea that someone as smart and motivated as Felicia would struggle to make money (or, crucially, make not-necessarily-monetary progress towards her goals) from the connections and influence she would gain from club membership is ludicrous.

The club is a nexus for money and power in the city. The two things breed one another. Get one, and you have leverage to gain the other.

 

[luthien17]

I think Victoria (MCs mom) was a carnation

 

[pinuz1]

I think Victoria (MCs mom) was a carnation

You either have the reading comprehension of a third grader, or you read the whole game while pressing the Ctrl key.

 

[Beduin123]

Networking with rich people is incredibly easy to monetize.

Networking normally happen between people roughly equal in power and influence. I hope you remember the attitude of Eric towards Felicia during the art exhibition? Yes, he is a special kind of asshole but nevertheless this sums them all. Also the attitude of Grace towards Victoria.

For rich and influential people they always be just sluts. How Felicia in this sense is different from the house girls?

Potential investors for any business venture

And why would they invest into a business of a failed cheating housewife with no previous business experience?

Opportunities to invest in other members' business ventures

What does she have to invest? Her cheated husband's wealth? She wouldn't get any even if he wouldn't find about the Club and wouldn't divorce her leaving her penniless.

Inside information about a host of subjects, from a range of different people

Dalia or Harper know a lot of that. So what? Did it help them to become something more than just VIP-whores?

Potential favors from club members. Just some examples off the top of my head:

OK, they can even invite her to a party or two, still calling her a slut behind her back. How can it monetize?

Worst case scenario, blackmail material that she can use either

Aha, going the same direction as Darius

And, of course, the art thing. The school she wanted to save is gone, yeah, but the money and influence she'd have access to as a member would smooth the way for creating a new one. Or a gallery. Or boost a specific artist she loves and get others to buy their shit.

I still don't understand where the money is coming from.

The idea that someone as smart and motivated as Felicia would struggle to make money (or, crucially, make not-necessarily-monetary progress towards her goals) from the connections and influence she would gain from club membership is ludicrous.

Don't forget, Felicia is not some enclosed home dwelling housewife. She already has a lot of social connections. She has a busy social life. She is a professional gold digger, remember? She has snatched Elias somehow after all. How did all her social skills help her with building her independent capital or business so far?

She will somehow become a business woman? I think for her it is even worse than marrying Elias. She is an art type of person, not a business shark.

The club is a nexus for money and power in the city. The two things breed one another. Get one, and you have leverage to gain the other.

Somehow it didn't help the house girls who know a lot of the client's secrets and other important information. Why the club patrons shall treat Felicia differently seeing how she humiliates herself on the stage? For them she is just another of the Club whores with the only difference that she is a failed wife of one of their peers. Which IMO would make them look down and despise her even more than if she would be just an ordinary house girl.

 

[Deleted member 8510700]

This game would have been perfect if there was sharing options

 

[Phase_01]

This game would have been perfect if there was sharing options

There technically is, you get the option to have a threesome with Rose, Killian, and Edwin
We were teased with a Felicia Killian Edwin threesome but I think we got cockblocked there

Don't think there'll ever be a Mina/Hana/non carnation mmf threesome but who knows

 

[Ottoeight]

This game would have been perfect if there was sharing options

Well, I guess you didn't play it.

Man, such an impressive first post

(ignore list on the spot)

 

[Deleted member 8510700]

Well, I guess you didn't play it.

Man, such an impressive first post

(ignore list on the spot)

I played it, there is none for the main girls....

 

[Deleted member 8510700]

There technically is, you get the option to have a threesome with Rose, Killian, and Edwin
We were teased with a Felicia Killian Edwin threesome but I think we got cockblocked there

Don't think there'll ever be a Mina/Hana/non carnation mmf threesome but who knows

I liked it still gave us option to do it very early but after that, there wasn't any development on it... Not a fan of Rose

 

[Ozymandias037]

Networking normally happen between people roughly equal in power and influence. I hope you remember the attitude of Eric towards Felicia during the art exhibition? Yes, he is a special kind of asshole but nevertheless this sums them all. Also the attitude of Grace towards Victoria.

For rich and influential people they always be just sluts. How Felicia in this sense is different from the house girls?

Members are vastly different from house girls. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

And why would they invest into a business of a failed cheating housewife with no previous business experience?

The same reason anyone invests in anything ever: to make money. The potential ROI for a business opportunity doesn't necessarily depend on the person running the business. And as far as the rest of the world outside the club knows, Felicia is an upstanding citizen and connected socialite. Why wouldn't it be a good investment, assuming the business fundamentals are sound?

What does she have to invest? Her cheated husband's wealth? She wouldn't get any even if he wouldn't find about the Club and wouldn't divorce her leaving her penniless.

She's not penniless. None of us know this answer, obviously, but she clearly has some resources of her own, or she wouldn't have been in a position to offer Edwin a... retainer, let's call it.

Dalia or Harper know a lot of that. So what? Did it help them to become something more than just VIP-whores?

Again, members are very different from house girls. And for all we know, yes, maybe their knowledge will help them out once their contracts with the club are up. There's no way to tell.

OK, they can even invite her to a party or two, still calling her a slut behind her back. How can it monetize?

Donations for charity. Fundraising events. Charging admission and having people pay it because big names are there. This is another easy one.

For them she is just another of the Club whores with the only difference that she is a failed wife of one of their peers. Which IMO would make them look down and despise her even more than if she would be just an ordinary house girl.

This is really the crux of the issue, still. To you, Felicia is tainted, failed, disgusting, unworthy of respect, debased, nothing but a whore. To summarize in meme:

You can't get past your own opinion of Felicia and imagine anyone perceiving her differently. That's fine, but it's making you discount perfectly valid answers just because you don't see a difference between Felicia and the house girls. And if she loses, you're probably right! In fact, she'd be in an even worse position than the house girls. But if she wins, it's a completely different story.

I can't tell if you're arguing in bad faith, but I don't think you are, or at least not on purpose. I think you just legitimately can't see past your own reactions to imagine how anyone could view things in a different light. From where I sit (and maybe I'm wrong), it seems like you don't even really want to try. And that's perfectly fine too, but it makes it impossible to have a discussion.

 

[Beduin123]

Members are vastly different from house girls. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

What do you think make a member in this case? Power and influence, not just a member card. Does Felicia have them to be treated as a peer by the other members? Mind you, they sometimes don't respect each other. Like Samson, for example. He is a member, fine, but does he have much influence over other members?

Felicia is an upstanding citizen and connected socialite. Why wouldn't it be a good investment, assuming the business fundamentals are sound?

Sorry but you have very strange understanding of the business, it seems to me. To be a successful businessman you need to have a knack for it and have some original ideas. Otherwise you end up like Veronica. There are lots of "upstanding citizens and connected socialites" around. It doesn't mean that all the rich people are in a great hurry to bring their money to them. These people wouldn't be rich if they behaved like that.

She's not penniless. None of us know this answer, obviously, but she clearly has some resources of her own, or she wouldn't have been in a position to offer Edwin a... retainer, let's call it.

Well, as someone argued here (not me) that apparently Elias has concluded such a contract with her, that she doesn't get much wealth from him even if they divorce. Otherwise she wouldn't go through all this shit as a Carnation. And she would be able to save the art school first of all.

Again, members are very different from house girls. And for all we know, yes, maybe their knowledge will help them out once their contracts with the club are up. There's no way to tell.

Again, what is worth a member without power and money, especially the one who has publicly degraded and humiliated themselves. They may accept her in the Club, doesn't mean they will respect her.

Donations for charity. Fundraising events. Charging admission and having people pay it because big names are there. This is another easy one.

I thought her name is Felicia Ford, not Hillary Clinton Seriously, who is she that the rich people would donate money to her? Charity is often a cover for money laundering or some other hidden agendas.

This is really the crux of the issue, still. To you, Felicia is tainted, failed, disgusting, unworthy of respect, debased, nothing but a whore.

No, I know that she is talented, smart , beautiful and knows her ways with the men. But after the exhibition and betrayal of Elias the Club members will see her as a whore.

You can't get past your own opinion of Felicia and imagine anyone perceiving her differently.

My opinion of Felicia is how she is written in the game according to her actions. Let's imagine, you meet an ex wife of your colleague who, as you know, has cheated on him, destroyed his reputation and his career and went to perform as a strip dancer and a hooker. Would you, for some weird reason "invest" in her, make her a center of your social circle, get her acquainted with all your friends?

I said a few times that Felicia is one of my favorite girls in the game (after Hana and Mina). But I know the people and the world a bit and I know how they work. If I would be a rich powerful person, I wouldn't trust Felicia a little bit, knowing her past and present.

I mean, one thing for a young guy like Edwin to fuck this hot beautiful prize wife. I myself had a couple of affairs like that when I was young. Another thing, for the people of power to accept her as equal. Even Samson has no respect for her and he himself is at the bottom of this pyramid.

As I said before, I hope the Devs in the new updates will come with yet another interesting and feasible plot twist regarding Felicia which explains everything. What for your attempt to explain it, sorry, I don't buy it. It doesn't work this way.

 

[Beduin123]

PS I see that many people jump in a hurry to defend the present version of Felicia's plan while forgetting that the Devs themselves implied many times that it is very risky and unreliable. Especially now when Elias is invited in the Club. On the other hand, it is Version 2.0 of her plan. I have to remind you that Version 1.0 was simply "to have fun". Than later in the game came the Version 2.0 "to get connections". Are you all so sure that there is no Vesion 3.0 and that Felicia has already put all her cards on the table?

 

[dolfe67]

That discussion about Felicia is worse than a political debate between left wing and right wing, the initial poster camping on his positions. I thought he said he wouldn't talk more about it though

 

[Beduin123]

I thought he said he wouldn't talk more about it though

Some people still continue to argue with me on this topic. I said a few times I would be content with any good solution that the Devs would bring up in the future. For some reason these people believe that the plan that she voiced so far is the real and final one (though not many details were unveiled by Felicia) and because these people like the game very much (I do as well) they blindly defend everything about it, even if it is just another facade put up by the clever, calculating and manipulative gold digger.
I don't want to continue on that until the exhibition is finished and the results a clear, but when directly addressed I feel obliged to reply.

 

[ffive]

What do you think make a member in this case? Power and influence, not just a member card.

Technically it is just a member card. The game notes that members' power and influence cover pretty wide range, and a number of them is so insignificant in that regard we don't even get to see them. They just make use of the house girls and don't even show up at the exhibition. They still get to brush shoulders with the more influential members, though.

My opinion of Felicia is how she is written in the game according to her actions.

No, your opinion is just that, your own opinion. The game doesn't have any sort of objective narrator who'd describe Felicia in a way you perceive and keep talking about her. It is literally your own narrowminded take combined with similarly inflexible idea of "what rich people are like", and nothing else.

Let's imagine, you meet an ex wife of your colleague who, as you know, has cheated on him, destroyed his reputation and his career and went to perform as a strip dancer and a hooker. Would you, for some weird reason "invest" in her, make her a center of your social circle, get her acquainted with all your friends?

Maybe. It depends how interesting she was and what she'd have to offer. I know, inconceivable. "But she was a stripper! And a hooker!" and let me ask you, "And so fucking what?"