VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ffive]

What do you think make a member in this case? Power and influence, not just a member card.

Technically it is just a member card. The game notes that members' power and influence cover pretty wide range, and a number of them is so insignificant in that regard we don't even get to see them. They just make use of the house girls and don't even show up at the exhibition. They still get to brush shoulders with the more influential members, though.

My opinion of Felicia is how she is written in the game according to her actions.

No, your opinion is just that, your own opinion. The game doesn't have any sort of objective narrator who'd describe Felicia in a way you perceive and keep talking about her. It is literally your own narrowminded take combined with similarly inflexible idea of "what rich people are like", and nothing else.

Let's imagine, you meet an ex wife of your colleague who, as you know, has cheated on him, destroyed his reputation and his career and went to perform as a strip dancer and a hooker. Would you, for some weird reason "invest" in her, make her a center of your social circle, get her acquainted with all your friends?

Maybe. It depends how interesting she was and what she'd have to offer. I know, inconceivable. "But she was a stripper! And a hooker!" and let me ask you, "And so fucking what?"

 

[Beduin123]

It is literally your own narrowminded take combined with similarly inflexible idea of "what rich people are like", and nothing else.

The rich people are people. They just have more resources and have more freedom in their actions but they are not monsters or aliens from another planet. Also, they are mostly not too stupid (I believe ) .

Maybe. It depends how interesting she was and what she'd have to offer. I know, inconceivable. "But she was a stripper! And a hooker!" and let me ask you, "And so fucking what?"

Well, I don't know. Would you marry a prostitute, for example, especially if you have large choice. You can argue that she might have a brain of Einstein but why she has become a prostitute in this case And anyway, do you want to sleep with Einstein?

 

[Krytax123]

Technically it is just a member card. The game notes that members' power and influence cover pretty wide range, and a number of them is so insignificant in that regard we don't even get to see them. They just make use of the house girls and don't even show up at the exhibition. They still get to brush shoulders with the more influential members, though.


No, your opinion is just that, your own opinion. The game doesn't have any sort of objective narrator who'd describe Felicia in a way you perceive and keep talking about her. It is literally your own narrowminded take combined with similarly inflexible idea of "what rich people are like", and nothing else.

Weeeeeell, to be fair to get fucked on a stage (or even weirder stuff) is not something which creates respect and a good foundation for a future buisness perspective.

Its more like the opposite that you (usually) dont want to have your money and name connected to this stuff in public.

And i at least agree with the poster that felicia's plan is not really the most cunning and smartest move possible in her playbook lol. There are a lot of possible reasons which arent completly rational (like thrill-seeking) a part of it.

I would argue barely any of the members are there for smart rationale reasons either lol (only the doc and his assistant).

But i mean, thats kinda the thing, everyone in this story is a bit fucked up and lets not pretend that the setup of the club is overly realistic with all this investment/roi talk here lol

 

[ffive]

The rich people are people. They just have more resources and have more freedom in their actions but they are not monsters or aliens from another planet. Also, they are mostly not too stupid (I believe ) .

The whole point of people being people is that they are all different rather than nothing but your clones, thinking like you do and having no opinions other than your own. Some won't give a flying fuck about things that apparently raise your hackles. Some may even appreciate them instead of being disgusted, finding it entertaining or whatever.

I mean, you have people disagreeing with your take in this very thread. You think rich people will be different in this regard and will all universally agree with you instead, because they're rich?

 

[CorprealFale]

Well, I don't know. Would you marry a prostitute, for example, especially if you have large choice. You can argue that she might have a brain of Einstein but why she has become a prostitute in this case And anyway, do you want to sleep with Einstein?

Depends, an active escort? Probably not, very much a "depends" question.

Former one? Yeah, it's a job. No shame in it.
If it was because she was trafficed into it? Yeah, 100% no issue with it.

 

[Beduin123]

Some may even appreciate them instead of being disgusted, finding it entertaining or whatever.

Yeah, that's what's the Club is for. But you still don't have to marry or become a business partner of its girls.

 

[Beduin123]

Depends, an active escort? Probably not, very much a "depends" question.

Former one? Yeah, it's a job. No shame in it.
If it was because she was trafficed into it? Yeah, 100% no issue with it.

So, you are a rich powerful person who can have almost any girl. You know for sure that she is a gold digger who cheated on her husband, almost certainly ruined his political career and social reputation, voluntarily degraded and humiliated herself to the lowest level. Would you marry her or have business with her? Honestly?

 

[ffive]

Yeah, that's what's the Club is for. But you still don't have to marry or become a business partner of its girls.

You don't have to but you can if you want to. And some of them might want to, because they won't think of Felicia the same way you do and believe to be universal way of thinking.

 

[Ottoeight]

That discussion about Felicia is worse than a political debate between left wing and right wing, the initial poster camping on his positions. I thought he said he wouldn't talk more about it though

The real question is: why do they keep answering him?

He won't stop. He won't budge an inch. He will always answer because he decided that he MUST have the final say - always.

Jeeezuz - I've said my piece, you've said your piece: fine, now stop busting my balls and move on, damn!

 

[Beduin123]

You don't have to but you can if you want to. And some of them might want to, because they won't think of Felicia the same way you do and believe to be universal way of thinking.

And why they would see anything else in Felicia after she completely degraded herself in front of them. Oh, I know the answer, all the rich people are freaks who want to have business relations with a hooker from the club

 

[Beduin123]

He won't stop. He won't budge an inch. He will always answer because he decided that he MUST have the final say - always.

And why shouldn't I answer? Just give me one reason not to answer if I am directly addressed. Just not to "bust you balls"? Simple.
DO NOT READ

 

[ffive]

So, you are a rich powerful person who can have almost any girl. You know for sure that she is a gold digger who cheated on her husband, almost certainly ruined his political career and social reputation, voluntarily degraded and humiliated herself to the lowest level. Would you marry her a have business with her? Honestly?

Now imagine if someone answers you with "I don't really give a damn about any of that." Especially in the context of the husband being a douchebag who had it all coming for him? Some people might even applaud.

Being able "to have almost any girl" includes the ability to have exactly the girl one wants. As opposed to what a narrowminded part of society will see as appropriate. And to not reduce a smart, funny, talented and beautiful person to "but she debased herself in a sex club!" as if it decides all her worth.

And why they would see anything else in Felicia after she completely degraded herself in front of them. Oh, I know the answer, all the rich people are freaks who want to have business relations with a hooker from the club

All of them? No. But the ones at the club are quite literally sick fucks who visit a secret sex club. If that's not a hint you're severely overestimating their moral code and who they're willing to deal with for personal benefit, i don't know what is.

 

[CorprealFale]

So, you are a rich powerful person who can have almost any girl. You know for sure that she is a gold digger who cheated on her husband, almost certainly ruined his political career and social reputation, voluntarily degraded and humiliated herself to the lowest level. Would you marry her or have business with her? Honestly?

As you said. I can have whatever girl I want.

If I'd want one that had been a prostitute? So the fuck what.
We also know that she's a trophy wife, not a gold digger. Those are very different.

 

[Beduin123]

Now imagine if someone answers you with "I don't really give a damn about any of that."

Well, the problem is that the people who do big business do care. One thing is to fuck nameless girls in a sex club. Another is to connect your whole future life and business with someone like that.

Especially in the context of the husband being a douchebag who had it all coming for him?

That's exactly what they do not care. They are all like him. At least in the game.

a smart, funny, intelligent, talented and beautiful person to "but she debased herself in a sex club!" as if it decides all her worth.

I told me a few times about my (wrong) prospective. But now you speak completely out of your prospective. In the world where money, power and reputation matter so much, who cares about "smart, funny, intelligent, talented and beautiful person". Well, beautiful may be. Like the car you have shown. She is an item for them, like Sofia is an item for Abel. They don't care how talented and funny she is. They can buy a whole circus or theater to perform for them all day

If that's not a hint you're severely overestimating their moral code and who they're willing to deal with for personal benefit, i don't know what is.

What is in the Club stays in the Club. Why shall they mix it with their business or personal lives? Give me one reason they may want Felicia as a business partner. They may snatch her as a prize wife, if they are not very fastidious. But is that what she want? I highly doubt.

 

[Beduin123]

We also know that she's a trophy wife, not a gold digger. Those are very different.

She is called a gold digger many times in the game. Well, I guess you know better than the Devs

As you said. I can have whatever girl I want.
If I'd want one that had been a prostitute? So the fuck what.

Well, your choice, though that's may be why you are not a rich and powerful person. But even so, would you want to have business with her?

 

[Idontplay]

And why shouldn't I answer? Just give me one reason not to answer if I am directly addressed. Just not to "bust you balls"? Simple.
DO NOT READ

Good piece of advice; I will follow it.

 

[Ottoeight]

And why shouldn't I answer? Just give me one reason not to answer if I am directly addressed. Just not to "bust you balls"? Simple.
DO NOT READ

I wasn't answering you.

I guess you do not understand why one of this forum's - any forum's - general rules tells:

" Please move any disruptive/prolonged arguments to PM "

 

[ffive]

Well, the problem is that the people who do big business do care.

Some do and some don't. How many times are we going to go in circle with this exchange, where you'll keep ignoring what's repeatedly being pointed out to you, that not all people are the same and think and act in the same way?

I told me a few times about my (wrong) prospective. But now you speak completely out of your prospective.

Absolutely, and that's the very point. I have different opinion on this matter than you do. The rich people will also, similarly, have different opinions of Felicia. There will be people who are going to be willing to make deals with her, no matter how impossible to accept such possibility seems to be for you.

What is in the Club stays in the Club. Why shall they mix it with their business or personal lives?

It's funny you should say that, when at the same time you're using "what Felicia did in the club" as argument why people wouldn't want to do business with Felicia or have her in their social circle outside of the club. What just happened to that supposed separation? Why would they mix events from the club (which "stay in the club") with their business or personal lives? Outside of the club Felicia is a respected socialite and as such an excellent candidate for business and social gatherings.

If you are posing that yes, what Felicia did in the club affects how people will deal with her when it comes to business and personal lives, well, then you'll have to accept apparently there isn't a hard rule about never mixing these two things. Your own argument is based on this. You can't have it in opposite ways in two different claims you're making at the same time.

 

[Beduin123]

If I'd want one that had been a prostitute? So the fuck what.

Being able "to have almost any girl" includes the ability to have exactly the girl one wants. As opposed to what a narrowminded part of society will see as appropriate.

Just to sum this kind of arguments up. I know Caligula made his horse a Roman senator. Fuck, because he could.
Now tell me: was that a cunning plan of the horse to become a Roman senator?
I hope you can see the similarity with your line of argument.

Outside of the club Felicia is a respected socialite and as such an excellent candidate for business and social gatherings.

Did she show any prowess for business before? I thought her skill was to become a trophy wife. And part of the trophy wife appeal is the behavior and reputation. Have you seen how well Felicia behaves around Elias?

PS Damn, and those people call me stubborn.

 

[stormhawk]

can anyone tell me the entire story of this game so far