VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.5 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Beduin123]

Members are vastly different from house girls. If you can't see that, I can't help you.

What do you think make a member in this case? Power and influence, not just a member card. Does Felicia have them to be treated as a peer by the other members? Mind you, they sometimes don't respect each other. Like Samson, for example. He is a member, fine, but does he have much influence over other members?

Felicia is an upstanding citizen and connected socialite. Why wouldn't it be a good investment, assuming the business fundamentals are sound?

Sorry but you have very strange understanding of the business, it seems to me. To be a successful businessman you need to have a knack for it and have some original ideas. Otherwise you end up like Veronica. There are lots of "upstanding citizens and connected socialites" around. It doesn't mean that all the rich people are in a great hurry to bring their money to them. These people wouldn't be rich if they behaved like that.

She's not penniless. None of us know this answer, obviously, but she clearly has some resources of her own, or she wouldn't have been in a position to offer Edwin a... retainer, let's call it.

Well, as someone argued here (not me) that apparently Elias has concluded such a contract with her, that she doesn't get much wealth from him even if they divorce. Otherwise she wouldn't go through all this shit as a Carnation. And she would be able to save the art school first of all.

Again, members are very different from house girls. And for all we know, yes, maybe their knowledge will help them out once their contracts with the club are up. There's no way to tell.

Again, what is worth a member without power and money, especially the one who has publicly degraded and humiliated themselves. They may accept her in the Club, doesn't mean they will respect her.

Donations for charity. Fundraising events. Charging admission and having people pay it because big names are there. This is another easy one.

I thought her name is Felicia Ford, not Hillary Clinton Seriously, who is she that the rich people would donate money to her? Charity is often a cover for money laundering or some other hidden agendas.

This is really the crux of the issue, still. To you, Felicia is tainted, failed, disgusting, unworthy of respect, debased, nothing but a whore.

No, I know that she is talented, smart , beautiful and knows her ways with the men. But after the exhibition and betrayal of Elias the Club members will see her as a whore.

You can't get past your own opinion of Felicia and imagine anyone perceiving her differently.

My opinion of Felicia is how she is written in the game according to her actions. Let's imagine, you meet an ex wife of your colleague who, as you know, has cheated on him, destroyed his reputation and his career and went to perform as a strip dancer and a hooker. Would you, for some weird reason "invest" in her, make her a center of your social circle, get her acquainted with all your friends?

I said a few times that Felicia is one of my favorite girls in the game (after Hana and Mina). But I know the people and the world a bit and I know how they work. If I would be a rich powerful person, I wouldn't trust Felicia a little bit, knowing her past and present.

I mean, one thing for a young guy like Edwin to fuck this hot beautiful prize wife. I myself had a couple of affairs like that when I was young. Another thing, for the people of power to accept her as equal. Even Samson has no respect for her and he himself is at the bottom of this pyramid.

As I said before, I hope the Devs in the new updates will come with yet another interesting and feasible plot twist regarding Felicia which explains everything. What for your attempt to explain it, sorry, I don't buy it. It doesn't work this way.

 

[Beduin123]

PS I see that many people jump in a hurry to defend the present version of Felicia's plan while forgetting that the Devs themselves implied many times that it is very risky and unreliable. Especially now when Elias is invited in the Club. On the other hand, it is Version 2.0 of her plan. I have to remind you that Version 1.0 was simply "to have fun". Than later in the game came the Version 2.0 "to get connections". Are you all so sure that there is no Vesion 3.0 and that Felicia has already put all her cards on the table?

 

[dolfe67]

That discussion about Felicia is worse than a political debate between left wing and right wing, the initial poster camping on his positions. I thought he said he wouldn't talk more about it though

 

[Beduin123]

I thought he said he wouldn't talk more about it though

Some people still continue to argue with me on this topic. I said a few times I would be content with any good solution that the Devs would bring up in the future. For some reason these people believe that the plan that she voiced so far is the real and final one (though not many details were unveiled by Felicia) and because these people like the game very much (I do as well) they blindly defend everything about it, even if it is just another facade put up by the clever, calculating and manipulative gold digger.
I don't want to continue on that until the exhibition is finished and the results a clear, but when directly addressed I feel obliged to reply.

 

[ffive]

What do you think make a member in this case? Power and influence, not just a member card.

Technically it is just a member card. The game notes that members' power and influence cover pretty wide range, and a number of them is so insignificant in that regard we don't even get to see them. They just make use of the house girls and don't even show up at the exhibition. They still get to brush shoulders with the more influential members, though.

My opinion of Felicia is how she is written in the game according to her actions.

No, your opinion is just that, your own opinion. The game doesn't have any sort of objective narrator who'd describe Felicia in a way you perceive and keep talking about her. It is literally your own narrowminded take combined with similarly inflexible idea of "what rich people are like", and nothing else.

Let's imagine, you meet an ex wife of your colleague who, as you know, has cheated on him, destroyed his reputation and his career and went to perform as a strip dancer and a hooker. Would you, for some weird reason "invest" in her, make her a center of your social circle, get her acquainted with all your friends?

Maybe. It depends how interesting she was and what she'd have to offer. I know, inconceivable. "But she was a stripper! And a hooker!" and let me ask you, "And so fucking what?"

 

[Beduin123]

It is literally your own narrowminded take combined with similarly inflexible idea of "what rich people are like", and nothing else.

The rich people are people. They just have more resources and have more freedom in their actions but they are not monsters or aliens from another planet. Also, they are mostly not too stupid (I believe ) .

Maybe. It depends how interesting she was and what she'd have to offer. I know, inconceivable. "But she was a stripper! And a hooker!" and let me ask you, "And so fucking what?"

Well, I don't know. Would you marry a prostitute, for example, especially if you have large choice. You can argue that she might have a brain of Einstein but why she has become a prostitute in this case And anyway, do you want to sleep with Einstein?

 

[Krytax123]

Technically it is just a member card. The game notes that members' power and influence cover pretty wide range, and a number of them is so insignificant in that regard we don't even get to see them. They just make use of the house girls and don't even show up at the exhibition. They still get to brush shoulders with the more influential members, though.


No, your opinion is just that, your own opinion. The game doesn't have any sort of objective narrator who'd describe Felicia in a way you perceive and keep talking about her. It is literally your own narrowminded take combined with similarly inflexible idea of "what rich people are like", and nothing else.

Weeeeeell, to be fair to get fucked on a stage (or even weirder stuff) is not something which creates respect and a good foundation for a future buisness perspective.

Its more like the opposite that you (usually) dont want to have your money and name connected to this stuff in public.

And i at least agree with the poster that felicia's plan is not really the most cunning and smartest move possible in her playbook lol. There are a lot of possible reasons which arent completly rational (like thrill-seeking) a part of it.

I would argue barely any of the members are there for smart rationale reasons either lol (only the doc and his assistant).

But i mean, thats kinda the thing, everyone in this story is a bit fucked up and lets not pretend that the setup of the club is overly realistic with all this investment/roi talk here lol

 

[ffive]

The rich people are people. They just have more resources and have more freedom in their actions but they are not monsters or aliens from another planet. Also, they are mostly not too stupid (I believe ) .

The whole point of people being people is that they are all different rather than nothing but your clones, thinking like you do and having no opinions other than your own. Some won't give a flying fuck about things that apparently raise your hackles. Some may even appreciate them instead of being disgusted, finding it entertaining or whatever.

I mean, you have people disagreeing with your take in this very thread. You think rich people will be different in this regard and will all universally agree with you instead, because they're rich?

 

[CorprealFale]

Well, I don't know. Would you marry a prostitute, for example, especially if you have large choice. You can argue that she might have a brain of Einstein but why she has become a prostitute in this case And anyway, do you want to sleep with Einstein?

Depends, an active escort? Probably not, very much a "depends" question.

Former one? Yeah, it's a job. No shame in it.
If it was because she was trafficed into it? Yeah, 100% no issue with it.

 

[Beduin123]

Some may even appreciate them instead of being disgusted, finding it entertaining or whatever.

Yeah, that's what's the Club is for. But you still don't have to marry or become a business partner of its girls.

 

[Beduin123]

Depends, an active escort? Probably not, very much a "depends" question.

Former one? Yeah, it's a job. No shame in it.
If it was because she was trafficed into it? Yeah, 100% no issue with it.

So, you are a rich powerful person who can have almost any girl. You know for sure that she is a gold digger who cheated on her husband, almost certainly ruined his political career and social reputation, voluntarily degraded and humiliated herself to the lowest level. Would you marry her or have business with her? Honestly?

 

[ffive]

Yeah, that's what's the Club is for. But you still don't have to marry or become a business partner of its girls.

You don't have to but you can if you want to. And some of them might want to, because they won't think of Felicia the same way you do and believe to be universal way of thinking.

 

[Ottoeight]

That discussion about Felicia is worse than a political debate between left wing and right wing, the initial poster camping on his positions. I thought he said he wouldn't talk more about it though

The real question is: why do they keep answering him?

He won't stop. He won't budge an inch. He will always answer because he decided that he MUST have the final say - always.

Jeeezuz - I've said my piece, you've said your piece: fine, now stop busting my balls and move on, damn!

 

[Beduin123]

You don't have to but you can if you want to. And some of them might want to, because they won't think of Felicia the same way you do and believe to be universal way of thinking.

And why they would see anything else in Felicia after she completely degraded herself in front of them. Oh, I know the answer, all the rich people are freaks who want to have business relations with a hooker from the club

 

[Beduin123]

He won't stop. He won't budge an inch. He will always answer because he decided that he MUST have the final say - always.

And why shouldn't I answer? Just give me one reason not to answer if I am directly addressed. Just not to "bust you balls"? Simple.
DO NOT READ

 

[ffive]

So, you are a rich powerful person who can have almost any girl. You know for sure that she is a gold digger who cheated on her husband, almost certainly ruined his political career and social reputation, voluntarily degraded and humiliated herself to the lowest level. Would you marry her a have business with her? Honestly?

Now imagine if someone answers you with "I don't really give a damn about any of that." Especially in the context of the husband being a douchebag who had it all coming for him? Some people might even applaud.

Being able "to have almost any girl" includes the ability to have exactly the girl one wants. As opposed to what a narrowminded part of society will see as appropriate. And to not reduce a smart, funny, talented and beautiful person to "but she debased herself in a sex club!" as if it decides all her worth.

And why they would see anything else in Felicia after she completely degraded herself in front of them. Oh, I know the answer, all the rich people are freaks who want to have business relations with a hooker from the club

All of them? No. But the ones at the club are quite literally sick fucks who visit a secret sex club. If that's not a hint you're severely overestimating their moral code and who they're willing to deal with for personal benefit, i don't know what is.

 

[CorprealFale]

So, you are a rich powerful person who can have almost any girl. You know for sure that she is a gold digger who cheated on her husband, almost certainly ruined his political career and social reputation, voluntarily degraded and humiliated herself to the lowest level. Would you marry her or have business with her? Honestly?

As you said. I can have whatever girl I want.

If I'd want one that had been a prostitute? So the fuck what.
We also know that she's a trophy wife, not a gold digger. Those are very different.

 

[Beduin123]

Now imagine if someone answers you with "I don't really give a damn about any of that."

Well, the problem is that the people who do big business do care. One thing is to fuck nameless girls in a sex club. Another is to connect your whole future life and business with someone like that.

Especially in the context of the husband being a douchebag who had it all coming for him?

That's exactly what they do not care. They are all like him. At least in the game.

a smart, funny, intelligent, talented and beautiful person to "but she debased herself in a sex club!" as if it decides all her worth.

I told me a few times about my (wrong) prospective. But now you speak completely out of your prospective. In the world where money, power and reputation matter so much, who cares about "smart, funny, intelligent, talented and beautiful person". Well, beautiful may be. Like the car you have shown. She is an item for them, like Sofia is an item for Abel. They don't care how talented and funny she is. They can buy a whole circus or theater to perform for them all day

If that's not a hint you're severely overestimating their moral code and who they're willing to deal with for personal benefit, i don't know what is.

What is in the Club stays in the Club. Why shall they mix it with their business or personal lives? Give me one reason they may want Felicia as a business partner. They may snatch her as a prize wife, if they are not very fastidious. But is that what she want? I highly doubt.