Thor875

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Jan 8, 2019
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Both are very beautiful and intelligent. Both are equally immoral. Both are ready to go to all lengths (or depths) to get what they want. But still so different...
OK, then there are three. Or is it more moral to make porn (lead a double life), where she is ready to go to all lengths (or depths) to get what she want.
 

DarkLords00

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Nov 23, 2022
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I would like to suggest that Vicky is the opposite of Felicia
Both women use their looks/body to get money.
Both women lead a life in the public eye.
Both women have no education.
We gradually get information about both women that greatly changes the original picture of them.
For me, both go in the opposite direction of my initial perception.
Felicia's actions are becoming more and more understandable to me. On the other hand, my image of Victoria is becoming more and more shaky the more I deal with the Donovan interview.
The question remains whether Vicky didn't have other options. That will probably never be answered. (For example, Mina's path. As Donovan notes, she isn't interested in showing her beauty, otherwise she wouldn't need to continue,implies that) But if that point were to be dropped, how would we have to see her in comparison to the Li's.
In my humble opinion say that Vicky is the opposite of Felicia, is like say that a battle tank is the opposite of a battleship. They are different weapons, with different purupose for different scenarios; even if both of them have cannons, diesel engines and are made by steel. At the same way Felicia and Victoria share some (very superficial) similarities, but they are different characters, with different mindset, different purpose and different role.
Does this mean they are opposite to each other? No, simply they are different or (if you prefer) yes, they are opposite to each other like they are opposite to Rosalind or to Veronica.
So, one is a nyphomaniac maybe a tad masochistic whore and the other one is just a hedonistic whore. So both are whores, so what's the issue? :KEK:

We don't know when Edwin found that out (or how) but i don't think it was in mid school. And evidently none of his classmates in mid school, high school and university found out, or if any of them did they didn't think it's something that's worth making a public matter and something to bully Edwin over. Which makes the whole handwringing how horrible prospect it is and how irresponsible of Victoria... rather toothless and overblown.
That's a facile argument in my opinion. The thought of her work being found out somewhere down the line by people close to her or her son circle HAS to have crossed her mind at some point; And if it didn't when she first decided to do porn, it MUST have when she started having those "akward" remarks from Chuck during thanksgiving that we have learned about by now.
After all of this, she still decided not to reveal any of those details to his kid even after she found out she was now working for said individual. She only fessed up when it was either that or being coerced to manipulate someone she cared about.
I respect her for having enough integrity to be willing to sacrifice her image to the 2 people we know are only close to her rather than be willing to manipulate 1 of them, but I'm not going to feel pity for her when she is just being confronted by the long term consequences of her own actions.
 

Beduin123

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Mar 29, 2023
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OK, then there are three. Or is it more moral to make porn (lead a double life), where she is ready to go to all lengths (or depths) to get what she want.
Not exactly. I agree with those who say that Victoria is mostly motherly figure in this game and she is an older copy of Rosie in many ways. All she has done was out of necessity, rather than ambition as in case of Sophia and Felicia.
 

Thor875

Newbie
Jan 8, 2019
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Not exactly. I agree with those who say that Victoria is mostly motherly figure in this game and she is an older copy of Rosie in many ways. All she has done was out of necessity, rather than ambition as in case of Sophia and Felicia.
Yes, I saw it that way too. But isn't the necessity questioned by Donovan? "Well, there´s more to this than looking good, we wouldn´t need to go any further than this today. Doesn't that imply she could have gone Mina's way, as a model or actress?
 
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ffive

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Jun 19, 2022
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Yes, I saw it that way too. But isn't the necessity questioned by Donovan? "Well, there´s more to this than looking good, we wouldn´t need to go any further than this today. Doesn't that imply she could have gone Mina's way, as a model or actress?
The keyword in that quote is "today". It's never going to be "just model or actress", the only question is whether it'd take a little more time to get to the porn.
 

ffive

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Jun 19, 2022
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That's a facile argument in my opinion. The thought of her work being found out somewhere down the line by people close to her or her son circle HAS to have crossed her mind at some point; And if it didn't when she first decided to do porn, it MUST have when she started having those "akward" remarks from Chuck during thanksgiving that we have learned about by now.
I'm absolutely not claiming Victoria didn't consider that factor, quite the opposite. I'm just saying that she likely estimated it as low enough it's worth a risk, and the game essentially proved her right.

I believe any possible mentions from Chuck are long-after-the-fact development. Even then, and even if it happened earlier, neither Chuck nor Grace made their knowledge public, which again validates Victoria's possible estimation that the word of her actions wasn't very likely to get out to general public.
 

DarkLords00

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Nov 23, 2022
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I believe any possible mentions from Chuck are long-after-the-fact development. Even then, and even if it happened earlier, neither Chuck nor Grace made their knowledge public, which again validates Victoria's possible estimation that the word of her actions wasn't very likely to get out to general public.
I mean, that was just her being lucky that the people that found out wouldn't (or in Grace's case couldn't) expose her. She still was found out anyways, in fact she got as lucky as she got almost the best scenario possible since due to Edwin finding out on his own she didn't blindsided him(and determinantly, Killian) with the news. The problem is that now she doesn't have much of a moral pillar to grandstand with her "children" since if even if she wanted to try for Edwin or Killian to quit their assiciation/job for Chuck and to not only just think about the money, she has pretty much no room to talk considering what she herself choose in the past.
 

Thor875

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Jan 8, 2019
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The keyword in that quote is "today". It's never going to be "just model or actress", the only question is whether it'd take a little more time to get to the porn.
I absolutely agree with you if you look at this statement alone. But here it is a reaction from Donovan to her statement that she hated beauty pageants.
 

Thor875

Newbie
Jan 8, 2019
51
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I mean, that was just her being lucky that the people that found out wouldn't (or in Grace's case couldn't) expose her. She still was found out anyways, in fact she got as lucky as she got almost the best scenario possible since due to Edwin finding out on his own she didn't blindsided him(and determinantly, Killian) with the news. The problem is that now she doesn't have much of a moral pillar to grandstand with her "children" since if even if she wanted to try for Edwin or Killian to quit their assiciation/job for Chuck and to not only just think about the money, she has pretty much no room to talk considering what she herself choose in the past.
You've summed up well what I was aiming for with all my questions. And as for Ian, his reaction remains to be seen. Once it sinks in and he's seen the interview?
 
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ffive

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I mean, that was just her being lucky that the people that found out wouldn't (or in Grace's case couldn't) expose her.
Sure, in the same way people with 99% chance to succeed are "lucky" they didn't trip over that 1% chance to fail. Same way you are "lucky" every day not to get hit by a car when it's something entirely possible to occur and, following the logic in this thread, the mere existence of such possibility should totally prevent you from leaving your home, ever.
 

DarkLords00

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Nov 23, 2022
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Sure, in the same way people with 99% chance to succeed are "lucky" they didn't trip over that 1% chance to fail. Same way you are "lucky" every day not to get hit by a car when it's something entirely possible to occur and, following the logic in this thread, the mere existence of such possibility should totally prevent you from leaving your home, ever.
Funny you mentioned the car stuff, I almost got ran over by a car once because I was not paying attention to my surroundings and it was close enough that the poor driver almost crushed my dumbass foot xD I got REALLY lucky that the poor driver braked when he did or else I might've gotten my foot crushed. (It was just outside of my house too for a even greater layer of irony :KEK: )

Also how does your comparasion work for Victoria? She choose a certain (unknown) amount of times to work for the porn industry so much so she graduated from less regulated stuff to working for a company. It wasn't a one and done deal, and every time she chose to do so she incremented her chances of her past coming to light, wether it really was out of necessity or because she ended with a strange fixiation for doing the stuff we don't fully know but from everything we got so far we can concur it was definetely a mixture of both at least.
 

Fapparition

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Dec 25, 2022
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I would say, for me Sophia is the polar opposite of Felicia. The later is driven mostly by passion, the former is driven by cold calculation. Both are very beautiful and intelligent. Both are equally immoral. Both are ready to go to all lengths (or depths) to get what they want. But still so different...
It's kind of funny that you call them "polar opposite" and the next sentences bring a bunch of traits that they share. I would say Felicia and Sophia are quite similar as they both agreed to be a 'trophy', willing to use their bodies, both are blond, etc. It what they get on their side of the bargain differentiates them. Felicia wants money so she can satisfy her hedonistic nature while Sophia needs a lever to get higher in the medical world, to have more access. It's actually Sophia who is driven by passion here.
 
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ffive

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Jun 19, 2022
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Also how does your comparasion work for Victoria?
Victoria likely estimated the chance of bad outcome for her actions is low enough that it's worth the risk. This is the same thing people do when they choose to engage in activities which have potential, but low enough (for them) risk of things going awry.

People are complaining how Victoria wasn't thinking how her actions would potentially affect Edwin's life, but you could also say that Edwin isn't exactly thinking how his entanglement with hardcore criminals could affect Victoria, should he and his business pals have a fallout, or if some federal force instead of local police got involved. Of course, Edwin is the MC and the player's avatar so his shit can't possibly stink, but, you know.
 
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Darreau91

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Dec 31, 2022
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It's kind of funny that you call them "polar opposite" and the next sentences bring a bunch of traits that they share. I would say Felicia and Sophia are quite similar as they both agreed to be a 'trophy', willing to use their bodies, both are blond, etc. It what they get on their side of the bargain differentiates them. Felicia wants money so she can satisfy her hedonistic nature while Sophia needs a lever to get higher in the medical world, to have more access. It's actually Sophia who is driven by passion here.
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Sophia belongs no where in the same sentence let alone same universe as Felicia or any of the other cast outside of Warren and her puppet master. Feel sick even typing that.

Felicia has redeeming qualities, an ass, empathy, painting, real blonde hair, a lambo, tan lines, and some big ole titties. Sophia has none of those. If an edgy high school chemistry book was a humanoid, it would be Sophia. Mixed in with a little bit of Bill Cosby.

All you Sophia sympathizers are just typing turrets of gaslighting bullets into sane peoples screens and it’s disgusting.
 
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ffive

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Jun 19, 2022
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Felicia has redeeming qualities, an ass, empathy, painting, real blonde hair, a lambo, tan lines, and some big ole titties. Sophia has none of those.
Now now, that's just baiting for posts with that image of Sophia with her tits (and everything else) out--

... on second thought, carry on. :whistle:
 

DarkLords00

Newbie
Nov 23, 2022
81
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Victoria likely estimated the chance of bad outcome for her actions is low enough that it's worth the risk. This is the same thing people do when they choose to engage in activities which have potential, but low enough (for them) risk of things going awry.

People are complaining how Victoria wasn't thinking how her actions would potentially affect Edwin's life, but you could also say that Edwin isn't exactly thinking how his entanglement with hardcore criminals could affect Victoria, should he and his business pals have a fallout, or if some federal force instead of local police got involved. Of course, Edwin is the MC and the player's avatar so his shit can't possibly stink, but, you know.
Why do you assume that just because I think Victoria's not considering the consenquences of her actions stupid I wouldn't think that Edwin's choice of working at the Club without considering future consequences is stupid as well? My answer to both is yes, btw.

But let's be fair and play a bit of devil's advocate for both of them:

In Edwin's case, he only got the offer and managed to get the job due to 2 major reasons. The first one was due to nepotism since both an owner and another worker there personally knew him. The second one was because the club was in dire necessity of a last minute addition due to the "disapperance" of one of their workers so they needed an extra pair of hands (or extra dick in this case xD). It also helped that like a shark smelling blood in the water as soon as Kathy found out about Edwin's mum past she wanted him in no matter what despite her initial brief dissaproval of him after he met with her and August for the first time.
Edwin also was pretty much in the dark about the people he was working with due to again nepotism and was blindsided by that. He might have thought:" Well, my former physics mentor and my only friend work there so it can't be that shady of place right? ".

In Vicky's case, she got dealt a very bad hand in life (be it by chance, fate, god or wathever) when her husband died prematurely and having to raise a kid alone that was maybe more than a bit out there. But, she had options, as people said she could've sold the house and started over someplace else. She herself has been considering selling the house now as she told Edwin this update, in the past she convinced herself she couldn't have done that because it would've damaged him more but I believe it was more mere pride than her thinking about the ramificiations that starting over could do to her son after all he was still very young.

In the end it comes down to every players worldview and life experiences that will dictate how they feel about certain actions of each character. To you, Victorias choices where not stupid and she considered the possible risks enough, that's fair.
To me however, she didn't consider the risk/consequences that much if at all and she acted more on impulse and is now paying the price for that, that's also fair.

Anyways, this will be my final comment on the topic since I don't want to swamp the thread over a discussion in which probably neither of us is gonna change their mind on the subject. So have a good one!
 
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