Beduin123

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Since the very beginning of the game she shows very little inhibition (since she literally fucks the MC while nearly knowing them).
Fucking a stranger or being humiliated in front of a group of strangers is a bit different. Don't you think?

I had a girlfriend who brought me home and bedded me within two hours after we first met. And she was very sexually liberated up to the point of wanting to have sex in parks and other public places. But she would never publicly degrade herself. If she would, I'd lose interest in her the very moment.
But I can believe some people may find it hot when their GF does it. Just never met one IRL.

I don't think she is looking for another husband, lol
I don't suggest that but I also don't understand what kind of "influence" she can find.

Also, you can see many rich men marrying promiscuous women.
True, but there is still a difference between a gold digger and a total slut. Marrying a slut can be harmful for your reputation and that's what these folks value above all.
 
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ffive

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What makes you be so sure that Chuck won't discipline (reprimand or punish) Grace for what she did?
He's already explained it -- Chuck doesn't give two shits about Victoria, so why would he care that Grace has been rude to her, or think that's something that warrants a punishment?

And no, "but Ian likes Victoria" doesn't necessarily make Victoria valuable to Chuck, or for Chuck to fret that Grace has been rude to her. If anything, it may be quite the opposite, since Victoria is potentially an opposing influence that holds Ian back from fully embracing the attitude Chuck wants Ian to have, i.e. full-on hedonism where other people are just toys for personal amusement.

To add further, no way will Chuck risk antagonizing his nephew that he loves.
Why is it? You have just been telling us how unconditional spoiling is bad, and that a parent won't refrain from disciplining their children and that Chuck will for sure punish his beloved Grace. That is very much antagonizing said children, and yet you believe Chuck has it in him just fine. But suddenly not when it comes to Ian, even though he's also like a parent to him?

I'm pretty sure Chuck would be perfectly willing to antagonize Ian if it meant he can get Ian to become what Chuck wants him to become in the end.
 
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crastock

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Fucking a stranger or being humiliated in front of a group of strangers is a bit different. Don't you think?

I had a girlfriend who brought me home and bedded me within two hours after we first met. And she was very sexually liberated up to the point of wanting to have sex in parks and other public places. But she would never publicly degrade herself. If she would, I'd lose interest in her the very moment.
But I can believe some people may find it hot when their GF does it. Just never met one IRL.
difference between a gold digger and a total slut. Marrying a slut can be harmful for your reputation and that's what these folks value above all.
Duh!
I guess my point is that Felicia enjoys that on her own term, she doesn't mind exposing herself, and she gets off on showing her body and having sex on stage. I mean yeah, those are pretty wierd predilections, and I agree most men could find it off putting, but it doesn't make her insane. Also she doesn't enjoy all kind of degradation or masochism, I wouldn't even say she is a masochist.

As for gaining influence... her ultimate goals are kinda unattainable given the chauvinistic attitudes of the patrons, but who knows... I think this is also part of her having low inhibitions, even if her plan fails and joining the club leads her nowhere she kinda feels untouchable, which will come to bit her in the ass later. But even all this wouldn't make her insane, just much less clever than she thinks she is.
 

ffive

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That's the most lame part of that. I know some people from business world and they always regard sluts (no matter how smart or stylish they are) as sluts. Not as prospective partners if that is what Felicia wants. You cannot expect to exercise influence over somebody whom you are totally submitted to.
In my view influence contains a hefty part of respect. Especially in the business world.
Felicia isn't looking for business partners. She's looking to blackmail people from safety granted by being in position of power.

As for exercising influence over someone you've submitted to -- you are conflating business transaction and consensual sexual act with social life outside of it. Again. To bring up pretty obvious example: certain president to-be may be thinking of literal prostitute as a "slut" that he's fucked, but he's still paid her plenty of hush money just the same. His lack of respect didn't matter squat. And i doubt the woman was particularly heart-broken how he talks about her, while she was laughing all the way to the bank.
 
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Turret

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That's the most lame part of that. I know some people from business world and they always regard sluts (no matter how smart or stylish they are) as sluts. Not as prospective partners if that is what Felicia wants. You cannot expect to exercise influence over somebody whom you are totally submitted to.
In my view influence contains a hefty part of respect. Especially in the business world.
Once again, Felicia is not into finding a new husband in the Club. It is all about gaining the means to save the art school. Respect and all that is secondary. Also you overlook one big thing I and several other members already told you. Felicia is very uninhibited, but even she has red lines. For instance you can see at her reactions that her sub/humiliation kink is mostly about roleplaying it.
Real humiliation and pain is NOT something she likes, quite the contrary. It is actually a big surprise for Feli that Kath is so much into sadism, humiliation and pain and shapes the competition to suit these whims.

As for respect, influence and the business world it seems you have quite a rosetinted view. Or maybe you mix up business deals with social life outside it? You know that the number of functional psychopaths in the business world (some other sectors as well) is above average? And when it comes to the calculus of business, respect is nice, but secondary! For example, the firm I work in has a business partner whom our boss cannot stand at all and would like to replace sooner than later. But that is not happening and will not happen since in raw numbers it is a good deal trading with them.
A century ago, you might have had the option to exchange this business partner without all too much trouble. Unfortunately today the business world is a tank of sharks more than in earlier times and you have to do what is good for your business.
 

crastock

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I agree. But the way she is paraded by Elias isn't as a slut, the public person she presents is clearly different to her true self.
But maybe she thinks she doesn't need respect (?), she does have the patrons intrigued by her mentality, her shamelessness or whatever... Again I don't really know what Felicia is trying to cook up, nor would I defend it, I think it's not the point for her to have an impeccable plan in mind just that she has a motivation outside exploring some wierd exhibitionist fantasies.
 
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crastock

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Felicia isn't looking for business partners. She's looking to blackmail people from safety granted by being in position of power.

As for exercising influence over someone you've submitted to -- you are conflating business transaction and consensual sexual act with social life outside of it. Again. To bring up pretty obvious example: certain president to-be may be thinking of literal prostitute as a "slut" that he's fucked, but he's still paid her plenty of hush money just the same. His lack of respect didn't matter squat. And i doubt the woman was particularly heart-broken how he talks about her, while she was laughing all the way to the bank.
OK Wait, serious questions, when does she say she wants to blackmail people?
 

ffive

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OK Wait, serious questions, when does she say she wants to blackmail people?
I sadly can't remember the exact location. It's during one of the private talk with Edwin, either during their latest date, or earlier meeting. It's also not really spelt out or anything, more like alluded.
 
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ymy42

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I really don't understand what the problem is with Bedevi123...
Do you think the character is not consistent?

Okay...

Felicia's character can be ignored in a porn game, but you say it seems ridiculous that such a woman exists in real life...
Okay...

The person who created the character himself said that the character he drew for Felicia was quite real and logical...
He is happy with the character he drew for her so far and will probably continue like this...
So as you said, the porn game version will continue whether it makes sense to you or not...
The planet is so crowded that it contains all kinds of people...
And even if you don't witness it, there are many women like Felicia that you don't find "Realistic"...
Moreover, none of them care what you or anyone else thinks about them...
Also, can you stop acting like you are the smartest person here? So many people are wrong and you are the right one???
 

crastock

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I sadly can't remember the exact location. It's during one of the private talk with Edwin, either during their latest date, or earlier meeting. It's also not really spelt out or anything, more like alluded.
After the photoshoots in the 2nd Week Felicia takes you up to a rooftop, she discusses her motivation for joining the club for the first time. She says some bullshit about the club being an "oportunity" or "life being a ladder" and trying to get on the patrons good side, no mention of black mail. Maybe she clarifies this on a later scene that I missed, idk
 

Idontplay

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I sadly can't remember the exact location. It's during one of the private talk with Edwin, either during their latest date, or earlier meeting. It's also not really spelt out or anything, more like alluded.
It seems to me she want have her own connections, in order to be able to achieve her goals, even if her husband doesn't care about them, but I don't remember she said anything about blackmailing. Instead she said something about "be able to pull some strings".

I really don't understand what the problem is with Bedevi123...
I suppose you're talking about Beduin123. Anyway the answer is pretty simple: he sees in Felicia what he wants see, not what Felicia actually is and so he has a lot of problems to cope with the differences between expectation and reality.
 
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TD1900

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That's the assumption. But is she really?
She's peeping on them through her Ring camera. :devilish:

It's just one of those times where the drama supersedes what is maybe an infinitesimal lapse in judgement for the characters. The boys talking in the car would've been too restrictive choreography wise (I wanted Edwin to get in Ian's face when things got heated), plus the imagery of them sitting on the steps of their (shared) childhood home served the moment best.
 

Ungawa

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Apr 16, 2017
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But how many rich people you know personally who like to degrade themselves, who like to be submissive? How many rich people you know at all?

I am just gonna deal with this one issue...

I mean, I know I'm a slow caveman and all but come on. Have you never heard of Las Vegas? What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas?

Escorts, Bunny Ranch, VIP, speak easy, casinos, mafia, giant casinos, cabaret, and all sorts of crazy fun for the rich, the powerful, the affluent, and almost entirely the template for the story with maybe a side dish of Chicago in it?

It's just me? Okay, going back to my cave...
 

Beduin123

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I guess my point is that Felicia enjoys that on her own term, she doesn't mind exposing herself, and she gets off on showing her body and having sex on stage. I mean yeah, those are pretty wierd predilections, and I agree most men could find it off putting, but it doesn't make her insane. Also she doesn't enjoy all kind of degradation or masochism, I wouldn't even say she is a masochist.
Oh, I see. So we have two different Felicias in fact. One is a mindless sex-crazed masochist animal and another one is a smart calculating manipulative gold digger. Pretty much like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. May be she is even a schizophrenic? :unsure:

As for gaining influence... her ultimate goals are kinda unattainable given the chauvinistic attitudes of the patrons, but who knows...
But that's my main point here. Still, after all these discussions nobody explained to me what is her genius "plan" to get "influence". What kind of influence? Most of the club patrons would refer her as "that girl from the club (wife of unfortunate Elias Ford) that can fuck everything that moves". OK, fine!

How can she monetize this sort of influence?

She's looking to blackmail people from safety granted by being in position of power.
Just read above. What position of power it gives her? And if she blackmails the club members why cannot she disappear like Darius, for example?

It is all about gaining the means to save the art school.
Ah, that's what it is all about? The main purpose of her life that she is ready to risk everything for? :ROFLMAO:

I really don't understand what the problem is with Bedevi123...
As I said people cannot read. I think I told that here many times over and over and over and over. My problem is that I think her plan of joining the club is extremely stupid. And that is in strong disagreement with my initial image of Felicia which is that of a very clever, calculating and manipulative woman, let alone very beautiful.

The person who created the character himself said that the character he drew for Felicia was quite real and logical...
He is happy with the character he drew for her so far and will probably continue like this...
Oh, if that's the case, OK. Than every game on this site is five stars because their Devs are happy with their own games :LOL:

escorts, Bunny Ranch, VIP, speak easy, casinos, mafia, giant casinos, cabaret
Isn't that what young Felicia did at the start of her gold digging career? Those are a kindergarten in comparison to Carnations Club.
 

sunaboz

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BTW, Chuck knowing that Victoria is a whore shouldn't be a surprise if you recall Edwin's conversation with Abel:

Abel: "By the way, have you ever wondered if he knew your mother?" (...) "How many videos did she shoot? How big do you think the porn industry of Morehead Hills is?"

Which again paints Victoria as a selfish woman.
(...)
And I think you're doing the same regarding how much Chuck is doting on Grace & willing to forgive her regardless even if she messes something up or even crosses the line. (...)
The thing is Grace didn't "cross the line" or "messed up" as far as Chuck is concerned. So far the only "bad" thing she did was threatening Victoria that she would tell the truth about her (so it wouldn't even be slander/defamation but a simple truth), the question remains whether she would have gone through with this and tell everyone that Vicky did porn or if she was bluffing hoping that Vicky would be persuaded. This question can only be answered by TD but until proven otherwise Grace did (almost) nothing wrong.

More importantly though, the reason why I say that Chuck favours Grace over Ian is this bit that you've mentioned yourself:

"When it comes to small favors, I always listen to my little sister's requests. You should pick up the phone when she calls, lad."

and this one:

"That's your mother and my sister, lad. Be more respectful."

I'm pretty certain that if Chuck thought that Ian working with his father was Grace's wish and not her husband's he would have tried to persuade Ian himself, although it's clear we see this scene differently (you see it as some gentle request, I see it as a strong suggestion).

(...)
What makes you be so sure that Chuck won't discipline (reprimand or punish) Grace for what she did? (...)
What makes me think that? It's really simple, Chuck is a sick fuck and he considers whores human trash (but not only whores, anyone mundane is human trash for him) and in general has no scruples. Some examples that show that:

1) Using a whore as a piece of furniture (when he was playing go - "Fine memories on the back of others' hardships").

2) Letting patrons beat whores bloody or worse (that was the case with Grenier who raped one of the house girls with a beer bottle which injured her significantly).

3) He doesn't even know whores' names (they're just whores to him).

4) He wasn't too happy when Edwin asked him to give Emma a night off. He also called her a bitch and later stopped himself from calling her a whore ("why do you give a damn about one of the wh--") even though he knew what Warren did to her.

5) He didn't give a shit about Rose and the only reason he decided to help her was because Olivier roughed him and Ian up.

6) "Charles Kohler made a fortune on war profiteering, bribery, falsification of documents, state-sanctioned smuggling."

7) His "disgusting dealings" (as said by a nazi, so it must be pretty bad) with golf instructor, bowling teacher or shuffleboard coach also suggest that Dr. Charles doesn't have any empathy towards people (other than those closest to him). He broke them permanently (we can only imagine what that might mean).

Chuck might also be a war criminal and at the very least he has no problems associating and joking with war criminals (that COO of Hoarfrost Risk Managment) so excuse me if I find it hard to believe he would even consider what Grace did as "crossing the line" when that line for Chuck is a light year further.

(...) Besides, you really think someone like Chuck wouldn't be aware that Victoria was more of a mother figure to Ian, much much moreso than his own sister ever was? (...)
Why would he think that, what's your reasoning for that? Chuck creeps Victoria out and the only interactions he had with Victoria (that we know of) were of the awkward kind. And knowing that Chuck knows what Victoria did, no way in hell does he think that she was a better mother figure to Ian than his beloved sister. Chuck literally said: "you know she truly loves you right? I wish you two could get along" to which Ian replies "Maybe we could, if it wasn't for Dad." which suggests that Ian also loves her but it annoys him that she doesn't let him do what he wants (like Chuck does or Vicky).

(...) Sure, it started off as nepotism due to Ian, but the interactions the two of them have become more like a family. (...)
That is somewhat true and I'll get into that but let me recall this line first:

"Honestly, it's my nephew. Having no children of my own, I have a soft spot for Ian and he asked me to hire you."

The phone call in the prologue suggested they haven't spoken in quite a while and that formal "Sir" spoken towards Chuck also suggested that they weren't that close. Chuck liked Edwin and was his "mentor" but the fact that they haven't been in touch the moment Edwin lost contact with Ian suggests that (there's also "It's so good to see you, lad. It's been quite some time.").

So until 3 weeks ago they haven't spoken in a long, long time. Now they're starting to bond and Chuck sees how much more happy Ian became. That still doesn't mean much because they've barely started interacting with each other. Until their squash game they haven't been much closer than in high school. Also, imagine Ian asking Chuck to let Emma go earlier or to help Rose - do you think he would answer the same way as he answered Edwin?

Regardless, him liking Edwin is one thing, Grace blackmailing Vicky is another. Considering the above (points 1-7) wouldn't you agree that Chuck doesn't give a damn about her? And wouldn't you agree that he considers Grace as someone much more precious to him than Edwin? Personally I don't see how a person like this would even consider reprimanding her sister for what she did.

(...) "Uncle" Chuck was Edwin's favorite teacher, and Edwin was one of Chuck's favorite students. (...)
Nowhere in the game has been stated that Chuck was Edwin's favourite teacher (the word "mentor" was used) and there was definitely no mention that Edwin was Chuck's favourite student. What was stated however is that Chuck always liked Edwin and that he was the only one of Ian's family who spoke to him warmly but the fact is they weren't that close (see my response above).
 

crastock

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Oh, I see. So we have two different Felicias in fact. One is a mindless sex-crazed masochist animal and another one is a smart calculating manipulative gold digger. Pretty much like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. May be she is even a schizophrenic? :unsure:

But that's my main point here. Still, after all these discussions nobody explained to me what is her genius "plan" to get "influence". What kind of influence? Most of the club patrons would refer her as "that girl from the club (wife of unfortunate Elias Ford) that can fuck everything that moves". OK, fine!
I agree with the part that her plan is stupid, at least from what we know so far. I don't know if it's a problem of the narrative, if they want to depict her plan as stupid, or there is something that I'm missing or will later get revealed. Whatever it may be, having a flawed plan doesn't completely ruin her for me.

As for her being a "sex-crazed masochist", that's clearly not the case as I said already and someone else already mentioned Felicia is very sexually uninhibited compared to the other two Carnations, but her fantasies are really tame. She doesn't enjoy actually physical pain and humiliation, she doesn't even enjoy being insulted

Once again, Felicia is not into finding a new husband in the Club. It is all about gaining the means to save the art school. Respect and all that is secondary. Also you overlook one big thing I and several other members already told you. Felicia is very uninhibited, but even she has red lines. For instance you can see at her reactions that her sub/humiliation kink is mostly about roleplaying it.
Real humiliation and pain is NOT something she likes, quite the contrary. It is actually a big surprise for Feli that Kath is so much into sadism, humiliation and pain and shapes the competition to suit these whims.
He made the same point as me.

My point is that Felicia is still a clever and attractive woman that has some wierd sexual predilections but nothing too extreme. I don't see how these two aspects can't coexist in one personality. There is no dissonance, she remains pretty much the most level-headed character in the game.
 
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Beduin123

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I agree with the part that her plan is stupid, at least from what we know so far. I don't know if it's a problem of the narrative, if they want to depict her plan as stupid, or there is something that I'm missing or will later get revealed. Whatever it may be, having a flawed plan doesn't completely ruin her for me.
My point is that Felicia is still a clever and attractive woman that has some wierd sexual predilections but nothing too extreme. I don't see how these two aspects can't coexist in one personality. There is no dissonance, she remains pretty much the most level-headed character in the game.
That's where we diverge. I still see two different Felicias. One completely loses herself during extreme sex and has stupid hot headed "plans" that can completely ruin her life, and the other one is the successful manipulative gold digger, a succubus that has everything and everybody in her pocket.

Also it is not only her plan is stupid in its goals. She gets extremely humiliated during that and, mind you, it wasn't me who called her a masochist but another participant of this discussion. I have no my own opinion on that.

So, either she enjoys being extremely humiliated (lets forget about physical pain) or her plan has backfired from the Day 1 when she allowed Kat to put her foot on Felicia's head.
 

MilesEdgeworth

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Im guessing these old perverts will be patrons of her desired school. Plus I tend to believe that part of this is a fuck you to her husband.
 

Idontplay

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I agree with the part that her plan is stupid, at least from what we know so far. I don't know if it's a problem of the narrative, if they want to depict her plan as stupid, or there is something that I'm missing or will later get revealed. Whatever it may be, having a flawed plan doesn't completely ruin her for me.
Like I have already said, in psychology there is a condition which explain pretty well Felicia's behaviour. It is called , which involves the processing of highly critical task-relevant information, with limited or no processing of secondary information that may also be important to the task. Felicia is in a state of stress since she was not able to save the only thing she really cared about (the art school in which she studied) and she was not able to do so just because she has no power on the world around her. She always relied on her husband's power, but in that circumstance her husband did not care to help her, so now she is trying to have her power, but to do that she needs connections with powerful people so she is trying to use the only weapon she has, her sexuality, in order to gain that power; in fact she asked for become member of the club. Is it a dumb and very risky plan? Yes, but a person in a condition of cognitive tunneling can't se how much dumb and risky is that plan.
 
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