VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[TD1900]

i am sorry for the confusion
i should have made sure that my words were clear and sharp
sorry for trying to use euphemisms
I think me being an EFL sometimes things get lost in translation
what my intent was to say is that I was looking for some "emotional cantharis" from this update




i think didn't "feel" connected to this update because it's missing that emotional build up/rapport between the characters

I don't know how to explain what I meant by emotional cantharis or what I am looking for when I meant emotional build up
I think it's better if i give a hypothetical example

imagine this you're watching your favourite TV series which you have been watching for years lets assume it's a romantic telenovela or something like that

after several seasons of will they/won't they speculations
both the main characters end up confession their love and their dark secrets too
and that's how the previous season of the show ended
perfect cliff hanger right ?
It gets you hyped up for the next season
you're emotionally invested in this fictional relationship
and then comes the next season and the very first episode is begins with all the right things that you're expecting it to have and within the first 10 the first episode
the lovers are finally united and now that they have poured out all their true feelings
you as a fan are experiencing the peak moment of emotional catharsis that you have been yearning for year but then suddenly a character from season one say a missing father of one of the lovers finally returns to meets his son and his lover

from a content perspective the missing father finally meeting his long lost son is "good" turn of events but you as a fan were already having a great moment and this turn of event kind although a good thing from story perspective ruins the "mood" and the "vibe" even

and now the next 10 minutes of the show is spent show casing a sequence of father and son emotional bonding after years of separation

I mean this is good stuff too emotionally
sure when the show began you were hoping it would be all about the lovers but this is fine too

but you as a fan can't help but notice that while this is a good scene plotline wise you keep wondering why did it cut in and watered down that great emotionally charged romantic scene that kicked off this episode

and now after 25 minutes of run time the show again pivots back to lovers

the man says all the right things to his woman and the woman in turn says all the right things that you as a viewer wanted to hear
but it's doesn't give you the same emotional high it did when the epsiode began even though it's been like only a few minutes
just a few minutes ago you were having a great time

but you continue to watch for a few more minutes there is nothing wrong with the episode everything you always wanted is right there yet the sequence of events kind of toned down the emotional high you were feeling and in the final few minutes of the first episode the father and son have a casual chit chat sharing stories of their adventures , filling in years worth of missing information that was only teased in previous seasons over several years finally the man knows about his past , about his father and his old life
and the father finally says that he is finally taking the man home to meet his other family and then the episode ends

if you as viewer zoom out and read the summary of the first episode that you just watched
objectively it would have all the things that you wanted to see

the young couple getting together?
check
missing father and son finally reuniting?
check
the young couple having few more precious moments together on screen?
check
father finally filling in all details he wanted his son to know about father's past ?
check
the son finally getting know that his father has another family?
check

all of these plotpoints on looks great and sounds great on a summary description but when you finally sitdown after watching the first episode
you feel as if it's missing that emotional "magic" that made you keep watching the show for years eagerly waiting the day when all of the things that's listed in this episode come together in the screen

it's like missing a pinch of salt in your favourite dish
you know it's your favourite food
it has everything you love but as long as it's missing the right amount of salt it's ALWAYS going to be bothering you that it doesn't taste good enough anymore
the size of the bowl, the volume of the soup even the temperature of the soup doesn't matter as long you can feel and taste that missing a pinch of salt
eveneif it's your favourite food the missingpinch of salt felt immediately

and that's what I meant by "cockblock" something that kind of ruins the good mood that you as a player was feeling at that point

Gotcha. You're saying moments like Edwin putting a drunk Vicky to bed and then going on to chat with Sophia/Veronica before it's explicitly resolved is unsatisfying. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Draim]

Yes, it's vanilla game after all. No rape, incest, blackmail.

 

[UmbralKnight]

exactly
i love veronica and liked that fact that they're chatting regularly sharing things about eachother
on it's own it's a good scene nothing to complain about
but the episode began with edwin wondering about his mother
sure a few minutes of early morning self reflection alone is great
but chatting with a girl when he should be with his mother felt underwhelming

one more example is when Ian and Edwin finally discuss what to do about grace

Not sure if the timing was right and if it would have been better to push the scene to the end of the game instead. It's a complex topic, something the game might not be able to resolve properly.

I must admit it's quite funny though how fast both Ian and Edwin forget what roles they play in the club when they talk about a possible way to get back at Ian's mother.

why would you do that in middle of the club ?
but even if we go with the exact flow of conversation
Ian was potentially willing to turn back on his mother ,chuck for the love he had for vicky and edwin
he was determined to go against his own flesh and blood for vicky and edwin but the moment kathy arrived and ian gets verbally put down for talking back to kathy
he just lies down like a dog and accepts it

what happened to the guy who was full of bravery just a few seconds ago ?
you were willing to throw away your relationship with your biological mother just a moment ago and all it took was one word from kathy and now you just give up
you don't even tell kathy to fuck off or tell her that you will be there in a few minutes
instead both edwin and ian just fold like a pack of cards
It deflates you emotionally seeing them just fall in and pretend as if they both didn't make one of the biggest decisions in their lives just before kathy walked in

 

[TD1900]

exactly
i love veronica and liked that fact that they're chatting regularly sharing things about eachother
on it's own it's a good scene nothing to complain about
but the episode began with wondering about his mother
sure few minutes of early morning self reflection alone is great
but chatting with a girl when he should be with his mother felt underwhelming

I was hoping the catharsis was Edwin putting Vicky to bed without it needing to be said. They all hug, cry, and Edwin reassures his mother that no matter what he loves her. Leaving it unsaid there emphasizes that point, and when they pick up where they left off the next morning, it's like the feeling after a good cry. Post-catharsis. Awkward, but more level-headed.

 

[Idontplay]

I was hoping the catharsis was Edwin putting Vicky to bed without it needing to be said. They all hug, cry, and Edwin reassures his mother that no matter what he loves her. Leaving it unsaid there emphasizes that point, and when they pick up where they left off the next morning, it's like the feeling after a good cry. Post-catharsis. Awkward, but more level-headed.

Sometime you need to write on a door: «This is a door.»

 

[Paarl]

doesnt the cheat work anymore?

 

[UmbralKnight]

I was hoping the catharsis was Edwin putting Vicky to bed without it needing to be said. They all hug, cry, and Edwin reassures his mother that no matter what he loves her. Leaving it unsaid there emphasizes that point, and when they pick up where they left off the next morning, it's like the feeling after a good cry. Post-catharsis. Awkward, but more level-headed.

it's a great scene
Ian finally getting the family bonding experience that he always wanted
him crying out loud and being consoled by vicky was PERFECT no qualms over that
from Ians perspective THAT moment is his peak emotional high
just the night before his friend loved and trusted him enough to share his and his mother's most vulnerable secret and the very next day he gets a call from his "brother" ,his best friend asking for Ians help consoling his mother
and from Ians PoV vicky loved him enough that to finally share her secret to him and they all hug it out and cry their hearts out

very emotionally touching scene from Ians perspective
but edwin is anything but level headed at that point
clearly he hasn't reached that level of emotional stability yet he is still going through some stuff internally
he gets so upset at one point that scene where he ends up hurting himself
i would say edwin is definitely not fully level headed yet and he is still feeling raw emotionally about vicky getting blackmailed by grace

sure i get that he thought he put everything to rest last night and when he gets up he is HOPING for something positive

and Ians weak moment comes later during the club
as i said before
he kind of folds when kathy tells him to get back to work immediately


I am not trying to be argumentative or pull down your vision for the game
I am just explaining how i felt during these scenes and how i view these scenes

 

[TD1900]

I am not trying to be argumentative or pull down your vision for the game
I am just explaining how i felt during these scenes and how i view these scenes

Oh, I know. At first I was trying to understand your criticism, but I also just like talking about our work. I genuinely appreciate your perspective and you taking the time to share it.

 

[HDussen]

Just something of a clarification. It's not like Elias denied Felicia "whenever" she asked him of something. It's one specific instance that happened to be very important to her, something he didn't really get. Felicia isn't exactly wanting for things in her marriage. This is the marriage is of convenience for both of them, not just Elias.

Yes, "whenever" is not a good word to use here. However, I would not put much stock in the things Elias does pay for either, as those (that we know about) are just part of the expenses of having a trophy wife. I mean, once you get yourself one of those, you are not going to keep her locked up at home wearing rags. So all of Felicia's extravagant life style; the fancy clothes, the fancy dinners, being seen around town doing fancy things; that is as much, if not more, for Elias' benefit as for Felicia's.

As soon as she asked for something that fell outside the scope of Trophy Wife Maintenance, he shut her down hard.

 

[Turret]

very emotionally touching scene from Ians perspective
but edwin is anything but level headed at that point
clearly he hasn't reached that level of emotional stability yet he is still going through some stuff internally
he gets so upset at one point that scene where he ends up hurting himself
i would say edwin is definitely not fully level headed yet and he is still feeling raw emotionally about vicky getting blackmailed by grace

sure i get that he thought he put everything to rest last night and when he gets up he is HOPING for something positive

and Ians weak moment comes later during the club
as i said before
he kind of folds when kathy tells him to get back to work immediately

Hi!
I think you underestimate the situation under which Edwin "folds", according to you. Kath made it clear early in the evening that she wants no or abides no kind of distraction of the "main event". Coupled with the fact that we learn a lot more about the VIP club behind the facade and what can happen if you cross them, is surely a fence post telling you to put your family troubles on the backburner until the day is over.
Our hero is no dummy.

 

[DarkLords00]

Hi!
I think you underestimate the situation under which Edwin "folds", according to you. Kath made it clear early in the evening that she wants no or abides no kind of distraction of the "main event". Coupled with the fact that we learn a lot more about the VIP club behind the facade and what can happen if you cross them, is surely a fence post telling you to put your family troubles on the backburner until the day is over.
Our hero is no dummy.

Hero is... a word I would not use to describe our protagonist Regardless of how we influnce him with our possible choices.

what happened to the guy who was full of bravery just a few seconds ago ?
you were willing to throw away your relationship with your biological mother just a moment ago and all it took was one word from kathy and now you just give up
you don't even tell kathy to fuck off or tell her that you will be there in a few minutes
instead both edwin and ian just fold like a pack of cards
It deflates you emotionally seeing them just fall in and pretend as if they both didn't make one of the biggest decisions in their lives just before kathy walked in

I could see Ian's reaction feel a bit surprising/contradictory considering that he had already stood up to Kathleen when she wanted to record the fake porn video with Edwin and Rose if you choose to have him refuse initially and that was a much more daring moment since it was in the middle of an exhibition, so it's strange but you could chalk it up to him still dealing with the aftermath of both, finding the lenghts his biological mother would go to control him, and, ALSO finding out that his surrogate and best friend's mother was a porn actress which he sees and has been conditioned to see in a less than favuoringly manner let's just say.

Anyways It has taken me quite a while to catch up with the thread and to play most of the update (I'm still missing 2 scenes) , and although I do not share exactly the same gripes with the update as UmbralKnight , it still left me with conflicted feelings leaning more towards being the first update of the game to leave me unsatisfied for some reason I'm still trying to put into words. It's a damn shame because it's the biggest update yet and the quality I still believe is as good as ever but for some strange resason it was the first time the game didn't leave me with a feeling of wanting more.

It's partly the reason why I didn't bother to write my experience with the update this time because I think most of the things I like where already expressed and the problems I have with it are mostly if not all subjective so I didn't see the point.

Regardless, I still enjoyed it and all the work put into it can be seen by any player so kudos to the devs!

 

[Turret]

Hero is... a word I would not use to describe our protagonist Regardless of how we influnce him with our possible choices.

Hi!
I would and do, since the times of the must be lilywhite heroes is well in the past. For those playing Edwin like a white or grey hat, he is something of a hero. Naturally those playing him like as a... do not have a hero Edwin. Antihero at best.

 

[UmbralKnight]

Hi!
I think you underestimate the situation under which Edwin "folds", according to you. Kath made it clear early in the evening that she wants no or abides no kind of distraction of the "main event". Coupled with the fact that we learn a lot more about the VIP club behind the facade and what can happen if you cross them, is surely a fence post telling you to put your family troubles on the backburner until the day is over.
Our hero is no dummy.

I was referring to "Ian" folding not Edwin
while your point about them standing up to kathy makes sense but even within this dialogue
if you picked the non "revenge" option Ian actually stands up to kathy or atleast tries to

Revenge Option





Non-Revenge Option




what does this mean idk ?
Idk

but Ian in the past has stood upto Kathy in few occasions
so him suddenly folding after talking about getting revenge on his own mother seems weird

 

[Turret]

View attachment 5349085
I was referring to "Ian" folding not Edwin
while your point about them standing up to kathy makes sense but even within this dialogue
if you picked the non "revenge" option Ian actually stands up to kathy or atleast tries to

Revenge Option

View attachment 5349091
View attachment 5349094
View attachment 5349095

Non-Revenge Option
View attachment 5349098
View attachment 5349107
View attachment 5349109

what does this mean idk ?
Idk

but Ian in the past has stood upto Kathy in few occasions
so him suddenly folding after talking about getting revenge on his own mother seems weird

Hi again!
Be it Edwin or Ian, I think we agree that both of them not raising a fuss with Kath and "folding" quickly, is the wiser decision under the circumstances. The problem with Grace´s blackmail attempt will come into focus again after the Carnation weekend is over. Grace, Chuck and Kath have to fall, that cannot be planned between door and hinges.

 

[ruby_rubicon]

... She could be one of the very few carnations who would love to participate again but is also aware that this quest is rather hopeless....

Allison seems bored with Elias, outright disgusted by the other patrons, and is very reluctant to recall her experiences as a carnation... So no?

 

[Darreau91]

Hi!
I would and do, since the times of the must be lilywhite heroes is well in the past. For those playing Edwin like a white or grey hat, he is something of a hero. Naturally those playing him like as a... do not have a hero Edwin. Antihero at best.

Edwin Wolfgang having standing sex with the mad glitchy flesh light genius that is in the process of creating the male date rape perfume is hardly what one would call a heroic act... Even Wolfgang's dick head was in a moral contemplation hide and seek during that scene because its shame was on the verge of bursting.

 

[Turret]

Edwin Wolfgang having standing sex with the mad glitchy flesh light genius that is in the process of creating the male date rape perfume is hardly what one would call a heroic act... Even Wolfgang's dick head was in a moral contemplation hide and seek during that scene because its shame was on the verge of bursting.

Hi!
We definitely need a headshake emoji among the reactions. You will see that our hero and Sophia will save Morehead Hills and the state from the club Kath and Chuck created!

 

[NoobMaster30678]

how to get these three?
The other is Lucy's

 

[FRVN]

how to get these three? View attachment 5349716
The other is Lucy's

For Lucy, you need to have kissed her at Felicia's Art Exhibition date, and then at the end of the free roam, talk to her and sit with her. This will end the free roam.

For the two Kathleen scenes:

You need to seek advice from Kathleen after the second exhibition, and then later on, the "Progress through the story" scene comes up (as long as you choose to give it your all). For the second scene, at the end of the free roam at the end of the new update, you'll see Kathleen in the lobby with the police commissioner. Choose to catch the tiger by the tail. Just keep in mind that you cannot get the scenes with Hana/Lucy/Felicia during the free roam, as they, along with the scene with Kathleen, are exclusive and will end the free roam. Important to note that you need to have the first scene to unlock the second.

 

[Gary Busey Pet Detective]

For Lucy, you need to have kissed her at Felicia's Art Exhibition date, and then at the end of the free roam, talk to her and sit with her. This will end the free roam.

For the two Kathleen scenes:

Is the second scene a proper lewd scene?