VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[Gary Busey Pet Detective]

Hopefully one of the devs could give us some clarification
Would be a shame if she is only considered a side girl since I think she offers something completely different story wise to the other main characters

 

[Idontplay]

Hopefully one of the devs could give us some clarification
Would be a shame if she is only considered a side girl

Who Katheleen?
She is a main character in the story and a secondary character, if we consider the sexual or the romantic point of view.

 

[Simpgor]

Why is everyone acting the like victoria/edwin/grace/chuck stuff is already over? Or that "a breakfast" solved everything? Did you guys miss the big emotional choice at the end of the last update when (after seeing his mom crying at the thought of telling him) Edwin decides to "start resolving" this on a personal level? Or was the breakfast so good it changed his behavoir before he ate it? or did you all make edwin sacrafice just so you got a blurry scene

Doesnt the scene of Victoria confessing end with edwin wondering how Grace even knows? Something which will lead him to a similar level of realization that introspective Ian had about Grace? IE Someone who has been a large part of their life (bonus points for neither Victoria nor chuck being a "direct real parent" to Ian/Edwin)?

I dont really get what people wanted? Victoria cant just lore dump her time as a porn actress on Edwin/Ian, not only because literally telling her "two sons" the dirty details she did in porn is a bit hard to admit (and 50% chance Edwin no longer "wants" to hear it) but because if she did there would be no way in hell Edwin (maybe even Ian) would not realize that "someone local with a connection to all of the following: the local porn industry, victora, and grace? that someone has also been in contact with both victoria and grace for the last decade+ or so?"

Ever since it was 100% confirmed that Chuck was directly involved I always assumed it would be playing a bigger role in the "final choice"/"stay or leave the club" than anything before that choice. Like do you really think Edwin would casually go to the exhibition THE SAME NIGHT where chuck who lied to him (and ian), manipulated Victoria (or whatever makes them have a negative realationship), all of which has been going on for literal years? and then continue to be "normal club mode" until we get the choice to stay or go? Im pretty sure its easier to beat an old mans ass than it is to beat him in a game of squash

Edit: I would get the response more if Victoria had made the decsion herself but since Grace forced her (and she then told the boys) I dont really see how she could be fully honest without flipping the entire staus quo on its head, Ian already broke down in tears and asked if there was something wrong with him, imagine that + it wasnt only his cunty mom but also his uncle who has looked up to and likely "loved"/learned from way more? Dude would have been catatonic he cant "just switch it off" like Edwin does

 

[ffive]

For Lucy, you need to have kissed her at Felicia's Art Exhibition date

Just a small clarification, it doesn't strictly need to be kissing. Edwin who chose to molest Lucy can have the scene with her in the latest update, too.

 

[pinuz1]

exactly
i love veronica and liked that fact that they're chatting regularly sharing things about eachother
on it's own it's a good scene nothing to complain about
but the episode began with edwin wondering about his mother
sure a few minutes of early morning self reflection alone is great
but chatting with a girl when he should be with his mother felt underwhelming

Yea I'm sorry but I disagree with this, I feel like in this situation Edwin would take some time to think before acting, he had just woken up, it makes sense he would at least do his morning routine first, also the text chat not only took probably less than 5-15 minutes but it's also better for the pacing of the update imo, it's a lighthearted moment of calm, he chats with Veronica and it also helps him make up his mind on what he has to do.

The Sophia visit is fine too, there would be no other moment in the update to fit this scene, and again, it's not like it was too long either, so I don't see the issue. This is ofc just my opinion.

 

[dexterousgecko]

Just go into this game - have my doubts on the tone of the game, but it's surprisingly wholesome

Mina, Hana are absolute fire. And for side girls Sophia is just ridiculous and the actress Alice..something (can't think of her name now) scene had me like



bonus, no ntr nonsense. Such an incredible game.

 

[UmbralKnight]

Yea I'm sorry but I disagree with this, I feel like in this situation Edwin would take some time to think before acting, he had just woken up, it makes sense he would at least do his morning routine first, also the text chat not only took probably less than 5-15 minutes but it's also better for the pacing of the update imo, it's a lighthearted moment of calm, he chats with Veronica and it also helps him make up his mind on what he has to do.

The Sophia visit is fine too, there would be no other moment in the update to fit this scene, and again, it's not like it was too long either, so I don't see the issue. This is ofc just my opinion.

let's walk through the sequence of events

after going through a LOT the night before the MC (Edwin) wakes up having a nice dream about his father and what does he do after a bit of morning self reflection ?

he checks his phone and he sees that he got a text message from ronnie checking in if he is ok after she saw him leave early the day before
this is great stuff but you will notice something - edwin doesn't immediately text back ronnie
instead he is concerned about his mother and the aftermath of last nights events
he promptly gives his mother a call and she doesn't pick it up

so far so good
the flow of events matches something someone would do in that situation

but then things begin to turn almost immediately
instead of calling Ian next like he did with his mother (the most logical outcome)

he instead starts doom scrolling in his phone and starts reading film reviews

i know that we all react differently in such stressful situations and maybe he needed to spend some time doing something "mundane" to keep his mind off from last nights events

and only then he starts texting ronnie and after that he finally decides to call ian and ask for his help consoling his mother

see now do you get what i mean?

somethings always take a higher priority over other things especially when it's already well established by now much edwin loves his mother

so i found it weird and frustrating that he gives up and starts doom scrolling after Vicky didn't pick up the phone and only to finally realise what he meant to do and then he asks for ians help

I loved that Veronica was the only LI who not only noticed edwin leaving early but also cared enough to check up on him

all of this is great but he spends time unnecessarily doomscrooling film reviews about some D grade film when he has better things to do

i know that sometimes when you're going through a lot even having a mundane conversation with someone you like/love can lift up the mood

again from a plotline PoV there is nothing wrong with the texting scene

plus Ronnie knows about Edwins mother did some sort of sex work (he told her during their date) so it would have been ok even if he had told Ronnie what's happening with him and his mother

so let's go through these events again but let's rearrange the chronological sequence of events a bit different and see which one of them gives you that emotional depth

Edwin wakes up after having a dream about his father, checks his phone sees that he has a message from ronnie
he ignores it (for now) , tries calling his mother first
she doesn't pick the call so he immediately checks up on ian
ians agrees agrees with edwin to meet Vicky says he will be there in a few minutes to pick him up (remember edwin still can't drive) while waiting he texts Ronnie ,maybe even tells her all about and then sophie ends up at his door unannounced says she wants to apologise again edwin here is in a bit of hurry but ian isn't still here so he hears her out then sends her away ASAP and then both Ian and edwin make it to their mother house and rest of the events transpires as it is


see the difference between both versions?

the content in both are the same yet the emotional depth is very different

 

[Simpgor]

the content in both are the same yet the emotional depth is very different

You are aware a good portion of what you typed should be using "if" not "when" right? Because they are player choice? Ian does not even have to be there and you are given 2 choices between this and the last update (not telling him she did porn, not inviting him to the morning discussion iirc) with that in mind does the current structure make sense?

 

[UmbralKnight]

You are aware a good portion of what you typed should be using "if" not "when" right? Because they are player choice? Ian does not even have to be there and you are given 2 choices between this and the last update (not telling him she did porn, not inviting him to the morning discussion iirc) with that in mind does the current structure make sense?

True
Indeed all of this is based on my subjective experience playing this update

i never denied player agency nor did it ever claim that there couldn't be multiple mutually exclusive parallel story lines

i even mentioned what kind of "save" i was playing with for this update and fully disclosed on whose path i was on

all of these are purely my opinions as I have previously stated

 

[Ozymandias037]

let's walk through the sequence of events

after going through a LOT the night before the MC (Edwin) wakes up having a nice dream about his father and what does he do after a bit of morning self reflection ?

he checks his phone and he sees that he got a text message from ronnie checking in if he is ok after she saw him leave early the day before
this is great stuff but you will notice something - edwin doesn't immediately text back ronnie
instead he is concerned about his mother and the aftermath of last nights events
he promptly gives his mother a call and she doesn't pick it up

so far so good
the flow of events matches something someone would do in that situation

but then things begin to turn almost immediately
instead of calling Ian next like he did with his mother (the most logical outcome)

he instead starts doom scrolling in his phone and starts reading film reviews

i know that we all react differently in such stressful situations and maybe he needed to spend some time doing something "mundane" to keep his mind off from last nights events

and only then he starts texting ronnie and after that he finally decides to call ian and ask for his help consoling his mother

see now do you get what i mean?

somethings always take a higher priority over other things especially when it's already well established by now much edwin loves his mother

so i found it weird and frustrating that he gives up and starts doom scrolling after Vicky didn't pick up the phone and only to finally realise what he meant to do and then he asks for ians help

I loved that Veronica was the only LI who not only noticed edwin leaving early but also cared enough to check up on him

all of this is great but he spends time unnecessarily doomscrooling film reviews about some D grade film when he has better things to do

i know that sometimes when you're going through a lot even having a mundane conversation with someone you like/love can lift up the mood

again from a plotline PoV there is nothing wrong with the texting scene

plus Ronnie knows about Edwins mother did some sort of sex work (he told her during their date) so it would have been ok even if he had told Ronnie what's happening with him and his mother

so let's go through these events again but let's rearrange the chronological sequence of events a bit different and see which one of them gives you that emotional depth

Edwin wakes up after having a dream about his father, checks his phone sees that he has a message from ronnie
he ignores it (for now) , tries calling his mother first
she doesn't pick the call so he immediately checks up on ian
ians agrees agrees with edwin to meet Vicky says he will be there in a few minutes to pick him up (remember edwin still can't drive) while waiting he texts Ronnie ,maybe even tells her all about and then sophie ends up at his door unannounced says she wants to apologise again edwin here is in a bit of hurry but ian isn't still here so he hears her out then sends her away ASAP and then both Ian and edwin make it to their mother house and rest of the events transpires as it is


see the difference between both versions?

the content in both are the same yet the emotional depth is very different

The one thing I'll push back on here is that as a person with ADHD (I don't know that Edwin has it, necessarily, but I do) I can absolutely 100000% confirm that I will start doomscrolling or replying to Discord messages or launch a stupid phone game even while part of my brain is actively screaming THIS IS STUPID DON'T DO IT YOU HAVE SHIT TO DO and the rest of my dopamine-starved neurospicy brain replies "yeah whatever I'll do my shit later."

So, yeah. That bit didn't stand out to me as weird, especially.

 

[ename144]

I dont really get what people wanted? Victoria cant just lore dump her time as a porn actress on Edwin/Ian, not only because literally telling her "two sons" the dirty details she did in porn is a bit hard to admit (and 50% chance Edwin no longer "wants" to hear it) but because if she did there would be no way in hell Edwin (maybe even Ian) would not realize that "someone local with a connection to all of the following: the local porn industry, victora, and grace? that someone has also been in contact with both victoria and grace for the last decade+ or so?"

I suspect people wanted the conversation to continue far enough to reveal the next twist, not tease us with it then leave us mulling over the mysteries we already had despite knowing they were about to expire.

And to an extent I agree with them; dragging out the same reveal wears out its welcome rapidly, and IMHO the MC desperately needed some opportunities to be critical of the Club in Update 6. Obviously we won't know how disruptive Victoria's full backstory will be until we see it, but I can think of a lot of things she could have added to the narrative that would have made the MC question the Club without requiring him to make a final decision this instant.

The more we know as we approach that final decision, the more our actions can inform and foreshadow the eventual result. If we only learn the truth in the moments before we have to make the call, not only will the decision risk feeling too easy, but we'll miss out on a lot of valuable feedback (to say nothing of drama) as other characters try to dissuade or encourage the MC's current line of thought.

But that's just my opinion, and as you say, we haven't even made it to the end of the day yet. I'm willing to wait for the other shoe - as long as we don't have to wait too long.

Also, TD1900, a belated (presumed) bug report:

Spoiler: Sophia Chuck Conversation Flag

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Simpgor]

but I can think of a lot of things she could have added to the narrative that would have made the MC question the Club without requiring him to make a final decision this instant.

The more we know as we approach that final decision, the more our actions can inform and foreshadow the eventual result. If we only learn the truth in the moments before we have to make the call, not only will the decision risk feeling too easy, but we'll miss out on a lot of valuable feedback (to say nothing of drama) as other characters try to dissuade or encourage the MC's current line of thought.

But that's just my opinion, and as you say, we haven't even made it to the end of the day yet. I'm willing to wait for the other shoe - as long as we don't have to wait too long.

Could you share what she could have added? Genuinely interested because IMO even without her confession Edwin is still only a single step removed from "knowing" that Chuck has been involved since Victora started thanks to Andrea introducing him to the producer. I agree that the more time we have to stew on "the decision" the better but realistically due to the nature of the game (VN) I didnt think it would be a week out. Doubly so when the exhibitions are already so deep and complex and naturally a "game ending decision" type choice should have more than just simple dialog changes.

All of this is off the assumption that the shake up when the full backstory is revealed is going to be pretty intense. I mean edwin doesnt even really like grace (beyond her being hot) and he still punched a wall, I just dont see a more intense version of that playing well with all the stresses of the exhibition...but him going off on Kathleen as soon as she talks any shit would be funny

Edit: Doesnt Edwin already heavily question the Club? Or do you mean specifically in relation to Victoria?

 

[ffive]

The one thing I'll push back on here is that as a person with ADHD (I don't know that Edwin has it, necessarily, but I do) I can absolutely 100000% confirm that I will start doomscrolling or replying to Discord messages or launch a stupid phone game even while part of my brain is actively screaming THIS IS STUPID DON'T DO IT YOU HAVE SHIT TO DO and the rest of my dopamine-starved neurospicy brain replies "yeah whatever I'll do my shit later."

So, yeah. That bit didn't stand out to me as weird, especially.

Doesn't even have to be anything ADHD related. Procrastination and burying yourself in some most vapid, pointless shit just so you can avoid tackling head-on something you (sub)consciously dread is a common enough defense mechanism.

 

[Kameri]

Oh it's locked for non-patrons, sorry XD

Main Female Cast Popularity Poll (Ch4.Up5)
View attachment 5351113

Supporting Female Cast Popularity Poll
View attachment 5351114

So... Who's the winner?

 

[sunaboz]

I suspect people wanted the conversation to continue far enough to reveal the next twist, not tease us with it then leave us mulling over the mysteries we already had despite knowing they were about to expire. (...)

If anything previous update was much more frustrating because Edwin instead of staying with his mother at the time of the crisis just went back to his apartment. Some son he is.

In this update though I find everything very reasonable and plausible, especially if Ian is with us. After all, Victoria knows what Chuck means to Ian so her dropping that shoe in this instance would be stupid. And even if only Edwin was present I imagine that the only thought Victoria had was "how the fuck do I tell my son I did porn?". There is also the fact that she knows her son likes Chuck too and that her son is now working for him. Considering she saw how Edwin reacted when he learned about Grace's blackmail she might have been afraid how he would react about Chuck.

Everything might change when Victoria will learn that her son works in the brothel but for now that was enough sharing for one day.

Unless you've had a different twist in mind.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

BTW, I wonder how will TD explain Victoria not warning us about Chuck more strongly once we will learn why they've had these awkward chit-chats during Thanksgiving and how has Victoria "insulted" him. If she knew how horrible he is I would imagine she would be much less subtle than "Wasn't he a bit... off?".

 

[Darreau91]

So... Who's the winner?

Hana

 

[Simpgor]

BTW, I wonder how will TD explain Victoria not warning us about Chuck more strongly once we will learn why they've had these awkward chit-chats during Thanksgiving and how has Victoria "insulted" him. If she knew how horrible he is I would imagine she would be much less subtle than "Wasn't he a bit... off?".

I assume along the same lines as not wanting to upset/change Edwins life since that (life staying the same) was one of the big reasons she started doing porn in the first place, another thing is it would be kind of weird for her to tell Edwin back in high school to stop attending a club because his best friends uncle is the teacher but to not elaborate. Then by the time the club stuff comes around Edwin is an adult, and until a decent portion into the game Edwin doesnt even "resemble chuck" in the a way (perverse) that would warrant a strong respeonse.

 

[Kameri]

Hana

The support girl winner?

 

[sunaboz]

Simpgor
Depending on Chuck's involvement (I assume she met him at Donny's studio while someone was balls deep in her, although who knows) she might have thought that her son was also doing porn, considering how evasive he was when talking about the job. That would also explain why Edwin was so understanding :].

BTW, I wonder whether Victoria is still in contact with Donny. That wouldn't surprise me to be honest. And yeah, I found it very irresponsible that she would have a porn conversation with her employer when her son might have heard it. As I've said earlier, Grace is a better mother than Victoria, period.

Edwin: "Does it matter? I put two and two together after remembering a conversation I heard you had with a, uh... Donny(?) when I was a kid."

So... Who's the winner?

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[pinuz1]

let's walk through the sequence of events

after going through a LOT the night before the MC (Edwin) wakes up having a nice dream about his father and what does he do after a bit of morning self reflection ?

he checks his phone and he sees that he got a text message from ronnie checking in if he is ok after she saw him leave early the day before
this is great stuff but you will notice something - edwin doesn't immediately text back ronnie
instead he is concerned about his mother and the aftermath of last nights events
he promptly gives his mother a call and she doesn't pick it up

so far so good
the flow of events matches something someone would do in that situation

but then things begin to turn almost immediately
instead of calling Ian next like he did with his mother (the most logical outcome)

he instead starts doom scrolling in his phone and starts reading film reviews

i know that we all react differently in such stressful situations and maybe he needed to spend some time doing something "mundane" to keep his mind off from last nights events

and only then he starts texting ronnie and after that he finally decides to call ian and ask for his help consoling his mother

see now do you get what i mean?

somethings always take a higher priority over other things especially when it's already well established by now much edwin loves his mother

so i found it weird and frustrating that he gives up and starts doom scrolling after Vicky didn't pick up the phone and only to finally realise what he meant to do and then he asks for ians help

I loved that Veronica was the only LI who not only noticed edwin leaving early but also cared enough to check up on him

all of this is great but he spends time unnecessarily doomscrooling film reviews about some D grade film when he has better things to do

i know that sometimes when you're going through a lot even having a mundane conversation with someone you like/love can lift up the mood

again from a plotline PoV there is nothing wrong with the texting scene

plus Ronnie knows about Edwins mother did some sort of sex work (he told her during their date) so it would have been ok even if he had told Ronnie what's happening with him and his mother

so let's go through these events again but let's rearrange the chronological sequence of events a bit different and see which one of them gives you that emotional depth

Edwin wakes up after having a dream about his father, checks his phone sees that he has a message from ronnie
he ignores it (for now) , tries calling his mother first
she doesn't pick the call so he immediately checks up on ian
ians agrees agrees with edwin to meet Vicky says he will be there in a few minutes to pick him up (remember edwin still can't drive) while waiting he texts Ronnie ,maybe even tells her all about and then sophie ends up at his door unannounced says she wants to apologise again edwin here is in a bit of hurry but ian isn't still here so he hears her out then sends her away ASAP and then both Ian and edwin make it to their mother house and rest of the events transpires as it is


see the difference between both versions?

the content in both are the same yet the emotional depth is very different

I'm sorry but I don't see this being an issue as big as you make it out to be but hey we can agree to disagree, not saying your opinion is wrong, but I simply don't see any problems with the sequencing.