VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ename144]

I dont really get what people wanted? Victoria cant just lore dump her time as a porn actress on Edwin/Ian, not only because literally telling her "two sons" the dirty details she did in porn is a bit hard to admit (and 50% chance Edwin no longer "wants" to hear it) but because if she did there would be no way in hell Edwin (maybe even Ian) would not realize that "someone local with a connection to all of the following: the local porn industry, victora, and grace? that someone has also been in contact with both victoria and grace for the last decade+ or so?"

I suspect people wanted the conversation to continue far enough to reveal the next twist, not tease us with it then leave us mulling over the mysteries we already had despite knowing they were about to expire.

And to an extent I agree with them; dragging out the same reveal wears out its welcome rapidly, and IMHO the MC desperately needed some opportunities to be critical of the Club in Update 6. Obviously we won't know how disruptive Victoria's full backstory will be until we see it, but I can think of a lot of things she could have added to the narrative that would have made the MC question the Club without requiring him to make a final decision this instant.

The more we know as we approach that final decision, the more our actions can inform and foreshadow the eventual result. If we only learn the truth in the moments before we have to make the call, not only will the decision risk feeling too easy, but we'll miss out on a lot of valuable feedback (to say nothing of drama) as other characters try to dissuade or encourage the MC's current line of thought.

But that's just my opinion, and as you say, we haven't even made it to the end of the day yet. I'm willing to wait for the other shoe - as long as we don't have to wait too long.

Also, TD1900, a belated (presumed) bug report:

Spoiler: Sophia Chuck Conversation Flag

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[Simpgor]

but I can think of a lot of things she could have added to the narrative that would have made the MC question the Club without requiring him to make a final decision this instant.

The more we know as we approach that final decision, the more our actions can inform and foreshadow the eventual result. If we only learn the truth in the moments before we have to make the call, not only will the decision risk feeling too easy, but we'll miss out on a lot of valuable feedback (to say nothing of drama) as other characters try to dissuade or encourage the MC's current line of thought.

But that's just my opinion, and as you say, we haven't even made it to the end of the day yet. I'm willing to wait for the other shoe - as long as we don't have to wait too long.

Could you share what she could have added? Genuinely interested because IMO even without her confession Edwin is still only a single step removed from "knowing" that Chuck has been involved since Victora started thanks to Andrea introducing him to the producer. I agree that the more time we have to stew on "the decision" the better but realistically due to the nature of the game (VN) I didnt think it would be a week out. Doubly so when the exhibitions are already so deep and complex and naturally a "game ending decision" type choice should have more than just simple dialog changes.

All of this is off the assumption that the shake up when the full backstory is revealed is going to be pretty intense. I mean edwin doesnt even really like grace (beyond her being hot) and he still punched a wall, I just dont see a more intense version of that playing well with all the stresses of the exhibition...but him going off on Kathleen as soon as she talks any shit would be funny

Edit: Doesnt Edwin already heavily question the Club? Or do you mean specifically in relation to Victoria?

 

[ffive]

The one thing I'll push back on here is that as a person with ADHD (I don't know that Edwin has it, necessarily, but I do) I can absolutely 100000% confirm that I will start doomscrolling or replying to Discord messages or launch a stupid phone game even while part of my brain is actively screaming THIS IS STUPID DON'T DO IT YOU HAVE SHIT TO DO and the rest of my dopamine-starved neurospicy brain replies "yeah whatever I'll do my shit later."

So, yeah. That bit didn't stand out to me as weird, especially.

Doesn't even have to be anything ADHD related. Procrastination and burying yourself in some most vapid, pointless shit just so you can avoid tackling head-on something you (sub)consciously dread is a common enough defense mechanism.

 

[Khan merry]

Oh it's locked for non-patrons, sorry XD

Main Female Cast Popularity Poll (Ch4.Up5)
View attachment 5351113

Supporting Female Cast Popularity Poll
View attachment 5351114

So... Who's the winner?

 

[sunaboz]

I suspect people wanted the conversation to continue far enough to reveal the next twist, not tease us with it then leave us mulling over the mysteries we already had despite knowing they were about to expire. (...)

If anything previous update was much more frustrating because Edwin instead of staying with his mother at the time of the crisis just went back to his apartment. Some son he is.

In this update though I find everything very reasonable and plausible, especially if Ian is with us. After all, Victoria knows what Chuck means to Ian so her dropping that shoe in this instance would be stupid. And even if only Edwin was present I imagine that the only thought Victoria had was "how the fuck do I tell my son I did porn?". There is also the fact that she knows her son likes Chuck too and that her son is now working for him. Considering she saw how Edwin reacted when he learned about Grace's blackmail she might have been afraid how he would react about Chuck.

Everything might change when Victoria will learn that her son works in the brothel but for now that was enough sharing for one day.

Unless you've had a different twist in mind.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

BTW, I wonder how will TD explain Victoria not warning us about Chuck more strongly once we will learn why they've had these awkward chit-chats during Thanksgiving and how has Victoria "insulted" him. If she knew how horrible he is I would imagine she would be much less subtle than "Wasn't he a bit... off?".

 

[Darreau91]

So... Who's the winner?

Hana

 

[Simpgor]

BTW, I wonder how will TD explain Victoria not warning us about Chuck more strongly once we will learn why they've had these awkward chit-chats during Thanksgiving and how has Victoria "insulted" him. If she knew how horrible he is I would imagine she would be much less subtle than "Wasn't he a bit... off?".

I assume along the same lines as not wanting to upset/change Edwins life since that (life staying the same) was one of the big reasons she started doing porn in the first place, another thing is it would be kind of weird for her to tell Edwin back in high school to stop attending a club because his best friends uncle is the teacher but to not elaborate. Then by the time the club stuff comes around Edwin is an adult, and until a decent portion into the game Edwin doesnt even "resemble chuck" in the a way (perverse) that would warrant a strong respeonse.

 

[Khan merry]

Hana

The support girl winner?

 

[sunaboz]

Simpgor
Depending on Chuck's involvement (I assume she met him at Donny's studio while someone was balls deep in her, although who knows) she might have thought that her son was also doing porn, considering how evasive he was when talking about the job. That would also explain why Edwin was so understanding :].

BTW, I wonder whether Victoria is still in contact with Donny. That wouldn't surprise me to be honest. And yeah, I found it very irresponsible that she would have a porn conversation with her employer when her son might have heard it. As I've said earlier, Grace is a better mother than Victoria, period.

Edwin: "Does it matter? I put two and two together after remembering a conversation I heard you had with a, uh... Donny(?) when I was a kid."

So... Who's the winner?

Spoiler

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[pinuz1]

let's walk through the sequence of events

after going through a LOT the night before the MC (Edwin) wakes up having a nice dream about his father and what does he do after a bit of morning self reflection ?

he checks his phone and he sees that he got a text message from ronnie checking in if he is ok after she saw him leave early the day before
this is great stuff but you will notice something - edwin doesn't immediately text back ronnie
instead he is concerned about his mother and the aftermath of last nights events
he promptly gives his mother a call and she doesn't pick it up

so far so good
the flow of events matches something someone would do in that situation

but then things begin to turn almost immediately
instead of calling Ian next like he did with his mother (the most logical outcome)

he instead starts doom scrolling in his phone and starts reading film reviews

i know that we all react differently in such stressful situations and maybe he needed to spend some time doing something "mundane" to keep his mind off from last nights events

and only then he starts texting ronnie and after that he finally decides to call ian and ask for his help consoling his mother

see now do you get what i mean?

somethings always take a higher priority over other things especially when it's already well established by now much edwin loves his mother

so i found it weird and frustrating that he gives up and starts doom scrolling after Vicky didn't pick up the phone and only to finally realise what he meant to do and then he asks for ians help

I loved that Veronica was the only LI who not only noticed edwin leaving early but also cared enough to check up on him

all of this is great but he spends time unnecessarily doomscrooling film reviews about some D grade film when he has better things to do

i know that sometimes when you're going through a lot even having a mundane conversation with someone you like/love can lift up the mood

again from a plotline PoV there is nothing wrong with the texting scene

plus Ronnie knows about Edwins mother did some sort of sex work (he told her during their date) so it would have been ok even if he had told Ronnie what's happening with him and his mother

so let's go through these events again but let's rearrange the chronological sequence of events a bit different and see which one of them gives you that emotional depth

Edwin wakes up after having a dream about his father, checks his phone sees that he has a message from ronnie
he ignores it (for now) , tries calling his mother first
she doesn't pick the call so he immediately checks up on ian
ians agrees agrees with edwin to meet Vicky says he will be there in a few minutes to pick him up (remember edwin still can't drive) while waiting he texts Ronnie ,maybe even tells her all about and then sophie ends up at his door unannounced says she wants to apologise again edwin here is in a bit of hurry but ian isn't still here so he hears her out then sends her away ASAP and then both Ian and edwin make it to their mother house and rest of the events transpires as it is


see the difference between both versions?

the content in both are the same yet the emotional depth is very different

I'm sorry but I don't see this being an issue as big as you make it out to be but hey we can agree to disagree, not saying your opinion is wrong, but I simply don't see any problems with the sequencing.

 

[Khan merry]

Simpgor
Depending on Chuck's involvement (I assume she met him at Donny's studio while someone was balls deep in her, although who knows) she might have thought that her son was also doing porn, considering how evasive he was when talking about the job. That would also explain why Edwin was so understanding :].

BTW, I wonder whether Victoria is still in contact with Donny. That wouldn't surprise me to be honest. And yeah, I found it very irresponsible that she would have a porn conversation with her employer when her son might have heard it. As I've said earlier, Grace is a better mother than Victoria, period.

Edwin: "Does it matter? I put two and two together after remembering a conversation I heard you had with a, uh... Donny(?) when I was a kid."

Spoiler

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If possible, we should also run a poll like this here.

 

[Ottoeight]

Hana

"Hana. What else?"

 

[Turret]

So... Who's the winner?

Without even looking at spoilers I would say Hana among the main girls, Sophia among the other girls. I doubt much changed since TD mentioned this quite some time ago.

 

[Idontplay]

Just go into this game - have my doubts on the tone of the game, but it's surprisingly wholesome

Mina, Hana are absolute fire. And for side girls Sophia is just ridiculous and the actress Alice..something (can't think of her name now) scene had me like

View attachment 5352013

bonus, no ntr nonsense. Such an incredible game.

Well if you follow the Hana's boyfriend path, you are in a ntr path (or is it nts?), but it seems it doesn't count.

 

[HH-Games]

Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public]
Translation patch for 19 languages


Language:
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Please make sure to back up your game and save files.Downloading the "patch.zip", After extracting,You can simply copy the extracted "game" folder into your "game" folder.Since the translation files are quite large, loading may take a bit longer at first time.Inside the tl folder, you can keep your preferred language.
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ANDROID Download and install the APK file:

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If you like it, please give me a like, thank you.

 

[dolfe67]

Well if you follow the Hana's boyfriend path, you are in a ntr path (or is it nts?), but it seems it doesn't count.

What? Hana doesn't fuck anybody else, how is it ntr? If the MC fucks other girls outside the club, it's just cheating. She's ok with him fucking the carnations during the exhibitions though.

 

[Simpgor]

What? Hana doesn't fuck anybody else, how is it ntr? If the MC fucks other girls outside the club, it's just cheating. She's ok with him fucking the carnations during the exhibitions though.

Maybe Kathleen touching her?
Hana getting looked at by other guys?
Hana in a room with guys not named Edwin?

 

[Idontplay]

Exactly! There is the "conventional ntr (or simply ntr)", in which the woman fucks other men and there is the "rerverse ntr", in which the man is the one who fucks other women. If you follow the Hana's boyfriend path, you are de facto in a reverse ntr path.
Or it is nts? I'm not sure if in this contest it is more appropriate say "reverse netorare" or "reverse netorase", but this isn't the point.

 

[Meiri]

Exactly! There is the "conventional ntr (or simply ntr)", in which the woman fucks other men and there is the "rerverse ntr", in which the man is the one who fucks other women. If you follow the Hana's boyfriend path, you are de facto in a reverse ntr path.
Or it is nts? I'm not sure if in this contest it is more appropriate say "reverse netorare" or "reverse netorase", but this isn't the point.

Netorare is usually explored from the perspective of the person being cheated on, In Netori the perspective is on you "stealing" another guy's wife or gf, I think that's important because it's usually what people assume when they see those tags.
Here so far I would describe it as just plain cheating because the focus hasn't been on Hana discovering it or dealing with it, so not the usual Netorare or Netori focus.

 

[ename144]

Could you share what she could have added? Genuinely interested because IMO even without her confession Edwin is still only a single step removed from "knowing" that Chuck has been involved since Victora started thanks to Andrea introducing him to the producer. I agree that the more time we have to stew on "the decision" the better but realistically due to the nature of the game (VN) I didnt think it would be a week out. Doubly so when the exhibitions are already so deep and complex and naturally a "game ending decision" type choice should have more than just simple dialog changes.

IMHO the MC learning that, say, Chuck knew about Victoria's career and made it a point to watch some of her films or even sponsored her to make a few to his specifications would have added a much needed tension to the Club scenes later in the Update. As is, it feels like the MC is making a concerted effort not to dwell on any of the (many!) unsavory things he sees as the night unfolds.

To a certain extent I get it; the MC isn't willing to openly defy Kathleen about Felicia, and he wants a break from worrying about Darius and his mom. But it's a stark contrast from his normal, almost crippling introspection. The end result is a sense that the MC has fully bought into his new life - even if his actions to that point demonstrate that he has not. If the MC had to juggle his rational need for the job with his emotional revulsion at the darker side of Chuck finally coming into view, I think it would have allowed events to play out with a lot more nuance and still fit into the larger picture.

But that's just my take. It's entirely possible this wouldn't have worked with whatever TD has planned for us.

All of this is off the assumption that the shake up when the full backstory is revealed is going to be pretty intense. I mean edwin doesnt even really like grace (beyond her being hot) and he still punched a wall, I just dont see a more intense version of that playing well with all the stresses of the exhibition...but him going off on Kathleen as soon as she talks any shit would be funny

I have to assume the shake up is going to be at least somewhat intense, as otherwise why not put all the cards on the table now?

But there are degrees of intensity here. Obviously learning that, say, Chuck raped Vicky or anything like that would provoke a game terminating response immediately, but I think there are dramatic reveals that could still leave the MC capable of playing nice with his employers even if he was inwardly pissed at them. The MC only flipped out when he learned that Grace tried to blackmail his mom into controlling his friend (and Grace's on son!), and even then he got himself back under control pretty quickly. That's a high bar to match, much less exceed.

Edit: Doesnt Edwin already heavily question the Club? Or do you mean specifically in relation to Victoria?

I mean in general, not specifically about Vicky. The MC has questioned the Club in the past, though he generally does so obliquely, even in his own mind. There are only a handful of times when he's expressed genuine doubt about whether he wants to keep working there, and most of those are framed as it not being a long-term career.

As we get closer to the end of the game, I feel like it's time for the MC to start contemplating his feelings on the Club a little more vigorously (assuming we encourage that angle, obviously). Instead, it felt to me like the MC toned down his oblique criticism instead, which was very frustrating to me. YMMV.