Ottoeight

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Mar 13, 2021
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I share the sentiments of those who would like to see Edwin finally take a more active role. Right now, it's fair to say he's more of a passive observer, just going with the flow.
How can he possibly take a more active role, I wonder. Tell me.
His only option would be "I quit", but the story would end.

The story is: what happened in those fucking damn 4 exhibition weeks. Literally.



On the other hand, how can you not go with the flow when you realize the club is two sides of the same coin? Some people come there of their own free will, while others take advantage of it.
Well, that's bullshit. You know it, we know it, the story's characters know it.

Nothing excuses whatever the club is doing to anyone.

And we should always remember that prostitute yourself AND buying sex are crimes in USA except in Nevada and Maine, therefore all the club girls are crime offenders, therefore they're totally at the mercy of the club and of the club's patrons.


so don't expect a sharp plot twist like in many games. I think there will be one, but not as cliched as some players would like.

In this regard, Edwin needs some kind of push that's directly related to him, his future, or his position. Will it be related to Darius, or to Victoria and Chuck's past connection, or perhaps something else entirely? During the week leading up to the final, fourth exhibition, we'll finally learn the answers to these questions, and Edwin will be able to choose his path.

At the moment, Edwin's greatest advantage, as Van Doren mentioned, is that no one takes him seriously; he's "flying under the radar." As Ozymandias037 said, the comparison of the last week to a roller coaster is apt, and I think the last week will be precisely the steep descent that the past three weeks have been building toward.
I agree. I might add that no one takes Ian seriously as well.
 

oceanbobo4

Member
Feb 12, 2021
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The flow of the game and how things connect is one of my primary concerns. It's what I spend the greatest amount of time wrestling over, and while result isn't perfect, it's not arbitrary; it's a reflection of what I think a visual novel should try to be. I'm sorry you find the structure irritating, and thank you for the feed back, but it's not done capriciously like you're suggesting.

Frankly: the function of the scene was presenting Edwin an emotional outlet post-Vicky talk with the seeming "girlfriend" options of the game. If you're loaning Mina out to Veronica or spending time with another girl instead of Mina during the last update, the game sees that an implicit choice about where you want Mina's relationship to go.

As for the list: should Edwin run out and grab some dude off the street corner so they can Eiffel tower her? Should he break out the dog collar after spilling his guts? No, not the time. Mina uses the moment to be tender and make Edwin feel better. Deepening their romantic connection within the remaining week and some change is a more time sensitive matter than exploring her kinky side - of which we'll get to.

Here is what is probably happening.

Mina fans read on f95zone that she is in a lesbian scene, or they look at the in-game scenes for Mina and it shows a Mina scene that they haven't found yet.

So they think, "I want to see Mina, and since Mina says she wants to explore her kinky side, it shouldn't damage my girlfriend relationship with her if I encourage her to experiment."

So they "loan" her to Veronica. Not only to see the scene, but to advance Mina's list of things she wants to try.

They think, "if I'm a controlling boyfriend, I'll lose her, so I'll let her free and decide, and then come back and get her later." And this is a realistic thought that often works in real life with girls. Those who take all a girl's attention, sometimes lose the girl. She thinks him "clingy."

On the other hand, you are correct.

In other situations, and with different girls, you would want to stay with Mina the whole time.

The problem is . . . a game can't offer all the choices there would be in real life.

In real life, the guy who wants to be boyfriend has the option to circle back and show his interest in Mina again, after "loaning" her. And I was expecting something like this in the game . . . because why shouldn't I be able to see ALL the Mina scenes?

------------

The other issue is . . . by having so many different paths, you create different Mina personalities.

In one path, she's the sweet romantic girl.

In another path, she's a bi sexual who doesn't really care about romance much.

Her personality is different for each path.

There's not one Mina personality, but many.

But shouldn't there be only one Mina? Then the players could better predict what to do around her.

The recent romance scene feels compatible with loaning her to a girl at the concert. After all, it was only a "loan," and Mina was curious about it, so how does this forbid a romance path with Mina?

On the other hand, it is the case that people change based on what they do and what happens to them. So, it is realistic to have Mina's personality develop in different ways through different paths.

But those who play multiple playthroughs to see all the Mina scenes get confused about who she is.

"Is Mina like this? Or is Mina like this?"

And then the choices feel arbitrary. Because they don't play your game with one playthrough, but keep replaying for all the scenes. And now they don't really know who Mina is because when you see all the scenes, she's quite inconsistent.

But isn't THAT how girls really are? Inconsistent?

So why not have all the scenes with Mina available for every playthrough? It would make the update feel longer, and it would solve the problem of too many paths.
 
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ffive

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Jun 19, 2022
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The other issue is . . . by having so many different paths, you create different Mina personalities.

In one path, she's the sweet romantic girl.

In another path, she's a bi sexual who doesn't really care about romance much.

Her personality is different for each path.

There's not one Mina personality, but many.

But shouldn't there be only one Mina? Then the players could better predict what to do around her.
That's the classic "nature vs nurture" and i'm firmly in the camp that nurture (or more broadly, what we experience) does play role in shaping the personality. (experiences and memories shape neural path, and those shape our decision-making) So yes, experiencing different things produces "different Minas". The alternative would be Mina's personality magically set in stone and not affected by anything she experiences.

That said, i quite disagree that "bisexual Mina" somehow doesn't care about romance much. That part of her doesn't go away; what changes is that seeing Edwin not act like he's much into her (by pushing her towards others and not showing jealousy etc she implicitly wants him to show) she recognizes it's best to write him off and turns to other potential candidates for said romance.
 
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Discrepancy

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Dec 3, 2020
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The other issue is . . . by having so many different paths, you create different Mina personalities.

In one path, she's the sweet romantic girl.

In another path, she's a bi sexual who doesn't really care about romance much.

Her personality is different for each path.

There's not one Mina personality, but many.

But shouldn't there be only one Mina? Then the players could better predict what to do around her.

The recent romance scene feels compatible with loaning her to a girl at the concert. After all, it was only a "loan," and Mina was curious about it, so how does this forbid a romance path with Mina?
I don't agree with this, there's only one Mina, with different facets sure but it's the same complex human, and for Mina this is really appropriate, IMO her character is very about that, being a sweet bubbly girl that is something like a face she puts on, but at the same time it's her. That sweet bubbly girl has a bucket list of sexual deviancies she wants to explore and you can help her, this is all Mina. A girl that's trying to discover herself "Sometimes I feel I'm not even human".
I Love her and would love to see all her scenes, the same with Hana, but I love that TD make us have choices and then consequences, it's one of the things that makes this game so good.
 

UmbralKnight

Member
Aug 24, 2024
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The one thing I'll push back on here is that as a person with ADHD (I don't know that Edwin has it, necessarily, but I do) I can absolutely 100000% confirm that I will start doomscrolling or replying to Discord messages or launch a stupid phone game even while part of my brain is actively screaming THIS IS STUPID DON'T DO IT YOU HAVE SHIT TO DO and the rest of my dopamine-starved neurospicy brain replies "yeah whatever I'll do my shit later."

So, yeah. That bit didn't stand out to me as weird, especially. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Doesn't even have to be anything ADHD related. Procrastination and burying yourself in some most vapid, pointless shit just so you can avoid tackling head-on something you (sub)consciously dread is a common enough defense mechanism.
fair enough
Here is what is probably happening.

Mina fans read on f95zone that she is in a lesbian scene, or they look at the in-game scenes for Mina and it shows a Mina scene that they haven't found yet.

So they think, "I want to see Mina, and since Mina says she wants to explore her kinky side, it shouldn't damage my girlfriend relationship with her if I encourage her to experiment."

So they "loan" her to Veronica. Not only to see the scene, but to advance Mina's list of things she wants to try.

They think, "if I'm a controlling boyfriend, I'll lose her, so I'll let her free and decide, and then come back and get her later." And this is a realistic thought that often works in real life with girls. Those who take all a girl's attention, sometimes lose the girl. She thinks him "clingy."

On the other hand, you are correct.

In other situations, and with different girls, you would want to stay with Mina the whole time.

The problem is . . . a game can't offer all the choices there would be in real life.

In real life, the guy who wants to be boyfriend has the option to circle back and show his interest in Mina again, after "loaning" her. And I was expecting something like this in the game . . . because why shouldn't I be able to see ALL the Mina scenes?

------------

The other issue is . . . by having so many different paths, you create different Mina personalities.

In one path, she's the sweet romantic girl.

In another path, she's a bi sexual who doesn't really care about romance much.

Her personality is different for each path.

There's not one Mina personality, but many.

But shouldn't there be only one Mina? Then the players could better predict what to do around her.

The recent romance scene feels compatible with loaning her to a girl at the concert. After all, it was only a "loan," and Mina was curious about it, so how does this forbid a romance path with Mina?

On the other hand, it is the case that people change based on what they do and what happens to them. So, it is realistic to have Mina's personality develop in different ways through different paths.

But those who play multiple playthroughs to see all the Mina scenes get confused about who she is.

"Is Mina like this? Or is Mina like this?"

And then the choices feel arbitrary. Because they don't play your game with one playthrough, but keep replaying for all the scenes. And now they don't really know who Mina is because when you see all the scenes, she's quite inconsistent.

But isn't THAT how girls really are? Inconsistent?

So why not have all the scenes with Mina available for every playthrough? It would make the update feel longer, and it would solve the problem of too many paths.
The "Problem" you're describing is something RPG fans especially CRPG fans have been discussing,debating and ruminating for decades now

in RPG circles it's called "player-sexual" paradox
it's more common in newer and mainstream games than older, classic RPGs


In older RPGs romances were specifically "locked" behind certain race/gender/alignment and sometimes even class

but newer RPGs let's you romance characters regardless of gender/race etc etc

so most of the romances end up feeling the same with very little variation
but it does allow game developers to "simplify" the different choices and outcomes and streamline it into a yes/no choices
whether the player is romancing the LI by the end of the game or not

so now instead of worrying about tons of different possible combinations by the end of the game in these newer games made it very streamlined and very accessible to the playerbase all of whom can enjoy a simple and easy to acquire romantic ending without worrying about failstates

for example in a modern game like BG3 every companion is "player sexual" by default so it doesn't matter what gender/race or class you're playing as if you pick the "right" options they would always be romantically available

but if you go back a bit further back even mainstream games like mass effect weren't completely plagued by player sexuality sure some character's like liara could be romanced by anyone but everyone had their own "core" personality and identity so that meant some characters were always going to be straight others bi and some gay and their different story lines and choices often matched their sexuality

but if you go way back say all the way to BG 2
romance options was very few and they were all almost exclusively centred around the core personality of the ROs

first the ROs interest in the player character were divided by gender then race then your alignment
so "romancing" someone in these old RPGs might be sometimes very frustrating since you could easily pick one "wrong" option and ruin it

but it also made it feel very special in a way since each possible path was very unique

for example a good guy MC romancing aerie is drastically different from a bad guy MC romancing Viconia

but let's come back to your questions

Most of the LIs in this game have a very strong central "core" personality or identity so I don't think they are ALL going to be end up the same or without a "default path" of their own because of the various possible choices and its effects

Veronica will always be Veronica
no matter which path you're on or which choices you make she is always going to have a "core", "central" or "default" personality that isn't going to change

it might be slightly different depending on your choices but it will always be there

let me give you an example

Kathleen is always going to be an evil hag who takes sick pleasure in tormenting the carnations
that is her "core" identity
sure she might warm up to player depending on your choices but even then she is still evil and she is still going to torment all the girls

but let's move on to a character that i like

Like i said Veronica is always going to be Veronica
she is very strong willed and determined but not the most brightest or cunning amongst the carnations

no matter what kind of choices you pick or the decisions you make her personality isn't going to change drastically from the established "core"
she isn't suddenly going to become a big brained genius who suddenly figures out a financial loophole to get rid of the debt she owes nor is she going to suddenly become a cunning fox who weaponises her sexuality to manipulate the game in her favour by sleeping with let's say Kathleen

that simply isn't her

but there are exceptions to this of course

for instance Veronica finds the MC not only sexually attractive but there is a genuine emotional connection too
but that doesn't mean
Veronica is going to suddenly fall for Ian just because she as a "bi sexual" woman falls for the MC in one of the many possible choices and outcomes
she is not going to find to fall for Ian even though she calls him "pretty boy" by default

these are expectional cases which is a result of player choices

speaking of ian
characters like ian have their own paragon/renegade type dichotomy as part of their core identity

Ian is either your bro or he isn't
there isn't any other choice
similarly the choices with regards to vickys storyline are also an either or scenario

so far there isn't much scope for these characters to end up as inconsistent even in different playthroughs with different choices

however there is some validity in your argument with say a character like mina or even hana

they're too entangled with so many of the characters that even if you DON'T pick a choice that doesn't affect them directly
there has to be too many variants to account for all possible outcomes of different choices when they are interacting with other characters

for example
during the last update mina reacts differently depending on whether if she has previously interacted other characters like Veronica

so far she her story is very consistent across different play throughs because her character isn't yet affected by feature creep or cluster of domino effects

maybe in a few years when things get too nebulous some of her paths might get entangled in contradictory choices and effects maybe then some of her paths might seem inconsistent to her baseline core personality/identity

for example

ian always cheats on mina and they both always break up so in some of the possible future playthroughs mina might get back at ian by sleeping with the MC and different "ians" could feel completely different about this
a reformed introspective "bro" ian might feel completely disgusted that MC slept with Mina when he is still in love with her
meanwhile unreformed fuckboy ian probably doesn't even care
maybe different ians react differently to mina sleeping with women

this nebulae of possible alternative choices are only going to get bigger and bigger as the game progresses further along and some of these choices are going to be definitely "better" than the other

no two choices are going to be the "same" but then again such is the nature of choice based games

i am more worried about the endings
somehow to tie in all these possible threads into a unified cohesive endstate with years worth of content will be a massive undertaking on just a technical side


but that's years away from now and no use speculating now

to answer your question
so yes i think in end some of the mina play throughs will be VERY different and Vastly superior to some of the other possible choices and combinations

like I said no 2 choices are the same/equal and so it's natural that some of them are definitely going to be better than the rest

as long as the overall narrative remains consistent it doesn't matter if there are minute different and smaller differences across the various possible outcomes
 
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lustforsex

Member
Sep 18, 2023
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How can he possibly take a more active role, I wonder. Tell me.
His only option would be "I quit", but the story would end.

The story is: what happened in those fucking damn 4 exhibition weeks. Literally.
I mean, it's unlikely the players will be interested if Edwin spends the fourth week just like the previous three, only as a lackey and empathetic sponge. Something has to happen, right? That's why I mentioned a push in the last message. And I have serious doubts that Edwin can just up and leave when the summer exhibition is not over yet. That would be as stupid as Veronica's threats to stop performing.

Well, that's bullshit. You know it, we know it, the story's characters know it.

Nothing excuses whatever the club is doing to anyone.

And we should always remember that prostitute yourself AND buying sex are crimes in USA except in Nevada and Maine, therefore all the club girls are crime offenders, therefore they're totally at the mercy of the club and of the club's patrons.
This isn't an attempt to justify what the club does, but rather that I don't see the club employees or the carnations as pure victims of circumstance. They may be victims of causes unrelated to the club, but they themselves chose this place to solve their problems (there are exceptions, like Nicolette). Players probably have different views on this, but this is my take.
 

Anmuxi

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Jul 5, 2021
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Updated Android port. Nothing too fancy but let me know if you have any issues.

Version: Ch.4 Up.5

Appreciate my porting? Leave a Tip! You're supporting my efforts, paying for storage, and encouraging more ports!
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This unofficial port/version is not released by the developer, download at your own risk.

PLEASE don't reply, or @ me, or DM me for updates. I always update my ports, YES I ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THE UPDATE.
If you ping me for updates, I will mark you account as ignored.


IMPORTANT Instructions:
1. Download the APK:

*
* MEGA
Size 1176 MB

2. Install the apk and run it once.

If you are upgrading and you already have the RPA file you can stop here.

3. Download the RPA file:

* PIXELDRAIN
* MEGA
Size 2472 MB

4. Move the RPA file to the game directory on your phone:
Documents/Renpy_Saves/com.estrada777.palecarnations/game
The file MUST be named: archive4.2.rpa

5. Restart the game and enjoy.

Updates are faster on .

Game Developers: Want to talk about an official Android version for your game? Come join my Discord.
Hey, buddy, Pale Carnations has been updated to Ch4Up6 Public. You can update the Android version now. I'm really looking forward to the Android version—please do it! Thank you so much!!! (My English isn't great, so please forgive any unclear expressions.)
 

UmbralKnight

Member
Aug 24, 2024
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I mean, it's unlikely the players will be interested if Edwin spends the fourth week just like the previous three, only as a lackey and empathetic sponge. Something has to happen, right? That's why I mentioned a push in the last message. And I have serious doubts that Edwin can just up and leave when the summer exhibition is not over yet. That would be as stupid as Veronica's threats to stop performing.


This isn't an attempt to justify what the club does, but rather that I don't see the club employees or the carnations as pure victims of circumstance. They may be victims of causes unrelated to the club, but they themselves chose this place to solve their problems (there are exceptions, like Nicolette). Players probably have different views on this, but this is my take.
from a meta narrative perspective we as a player already know that this is just a convincing lie that Kathleen sold to the MC (Edwin) to recruit him

Kathy lies to almost everyone even when she doesn't
it always comes with a twist or some kind of price to pay

seems like darius already paid the "price" to leave the club
don't forget kathy isn't going to let the MC walk away from the club when the week 4 games end
just like with hana she is grooming/poaching talent that would be useful to her in future

do you really think she and rest of the VIPs are going to let someone useful especially someone like MC who is studying to be a doctor no less just walk away ?

no chance

it's already hinted in some ways
many of the side characters like grace , abel are already trying to recruit the MC to work for them
maybeworking for them won't be nearly as bad as working for Kathleen

or the MC could try to find out what happened to darius before week 4 and hopefully don't make the same mistakes as him
Ironically enough the MC has already committed the same mistake as Darius (he has already possibly depending on your choices has fallen in love with one of the carnations something kathy will try to use it against the MC)

don't forget so far the only young "talent" who has managed to survive past the past carnation games are ian and hana both are directly related to one of the main bosses by blood so theyare technically "safer" from her wrath should things get bad when compared to the MC who just like Darius isn't one of them
they are both replaceable outsiders
 
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Anmuxi

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Walkthrough Update


Hey everyone, here's my walkthrough for this great game. I hope you find it useful to navigate the game and get all the hidden gems.


If you want to support my work, you can:


Visit my thread to post suggestions for my next work.

Walkthrough is also available here:


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Cheers,
Mr Bubu
Hey, buddy, Pale Carnations has been updated to Ch4Up6 Public. Could you please update the walkthrough? I'd really appreciate it!!! (My English isn't great, so please forgive any unclear expressions.)
 

Meabe37

Active Member
Mar 9, 2023
552
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Hello all, TD here with the first developer diary of the Ch4Up7 cycle.
This more of a wellness check as there isn't really much yet to report. Image work began a couple days ago, and GIL has been largely toiling away on animations to be used for the future while I narrow down and ink in the specifics of the exhibition games.
All told currently the update sits at 21 static images, 0 animations, and 223 words.
There's technically 7 animations prepped, but we won't count those in the official totals. We tried that last update and keeping track of 'em was a pain.
Anyway as you can see, we're just getting started. Lot and time and energy went into dotting our Is and crossing the Ts. We felt it necessary since we're aiming to get this update out with a quicker turn around. The update's contents shouldn't surprise anyone: it's the exhibition. They'll be twists and turns of course, but you all know what to expect. Coming up with diabolical games has been challenging, but rewarding.
Anyway, keeping it short, but thank you all for your support during our last release period. It was our most successful ever and the feedback was as invigorating as we hoped. Without you guys, I am just a guy spamming onomatopoeias and GIL is playing with dolls. You're the best.
 

Discrepancy

Active Member
Dec 3, 2020
699
2,300
367




Hello all, TD here with the first developer diary of the Ch4Up7 cycle.
This more of a wellness check as there isn't really much yet to report. Image work began a couple days ago, and GIL has been largely toiling away on animations to be used for the future while I narrow down and ink in the specifics of the exhibition games.
All told currently the update sits at 21 static images, 0 animations, and 223 words.
There's technically 7 animations prepped, but we won't count those in the official totals. We tried that last update and keeping track of 'em was a pain.
Anyway as you can see, we're just getting started. Lot and time and energy went into dotting our Is and crossing the Ts. We felt it necessary since we're aiming to get this update out with a quicker turn around. The update's contents shouldn't surprise anyone: it's the exhibition. They'll be twists and turns of course, but you all know what to expect. Coming up with diabolical games has been challenging, but rewarding.
Anyway, keeping it short, but thank you all for your support during our last release period. It was our most successful ever and the feedback was as invigorating as we hoped. Without you guys, I am just a guy spamming onomatopoeias and GIL is playing with dolls. You're the best.
Poor Felish :cry:
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,738
15,514
681




Hello all, TD here with the first developer diary of the Ch4Up7 cycle.
This more of a wellness check as there isn't really much yet to report. Image work began a couple days ago, and GIL has been largely toiling away on animations to be used for the future while I narrow down and ink in the specifics of the exhibition games.
All told currently the update sits at 21 static images, 0 animations, and 223 words.
There's technically 7 animations prepped, but we won't count those in the official totals. We tried that last update and keeping track of 'em was a pain.
Anyway as you can see, we're just getting started. Lot and time and energy went into dotting our Is and crossing the Ts. We felt it necessary since we're aiming to get this update out with a quicker turn around. The update's contents shouldn't surprise anyone: it's the exhibition. They'll be twists and turns of course, but you all know what to expect. Coming up with diabolical games has been challenging, but rewarding.
Anyway, keeping it short, but thank you all for your support during our last release period. It was our most successful ever and the feedback was as invigorating as we hoped. Without you guys, I am just a guy spamming onomatopoeias and GIL is playing with dolls. You're the best.
Whoohoo, we're underway again!

Since the diary doesn't give an official start date it's hard to calculate a rate per week, so we'll just skip straight to the charts for Chapter 4 Update 7.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Not a whole lot to see just yet, of course. But I'm definitely eager to see what the conclusion to the chapter has in store for us.
 

Ozymandias037

Member
Sep 25, 2023
290
904
179
Well, actually my post was intended like a joke about the people, who ask contiously if there are ntr contents in this game: you can say: «Yes! But Hana is the ntred.». Unfortunately I have adopted an extremely poor choice of words, so it seems more a serious statement, than a sarcastic joke.
Fair enough! Your post makes much more sense now. :)






Hello all, TD here with the first developer diary of the Ch4Up7 cycle.
This more of a wellness check as there isn't really much yet to report. Image work began a couple days ago, and GIL has been largely toiling away on animations to be used for the future while I narrow down and ink in the specifics of the exhibition games.
All told currently the update sits at 21 static images, 0 animations, and 223 words.
There's technically 7 animations prepped, but we won't count those in the official totals. We tried that last update and keeping track of 'em was a pain.
Anyway as you can see, we're just getting started. Lot and time and energy went into dotting our Is and crossing the Ts. We felt it necessary since we're aiming to get this update out with a quicker turn around. The update's contents shouldn't surprise anyone: it's the exhibition. They'll be twists and turns of course, but you all know what to expect. Coming up with diabolical games has been challenging, but rewarding.
Anyway, keeping it short, but thank you all for your support during our last release period. It was our most successful ever and the feedback was as invigorating as we hoped. Without you guys, I am just a guy spamming onomatopoeias and GIL is playing with dolls. You're the best.
"A guy spamming onomatopoeias" lmao perfection
 

Ottoeight

Forum Fanatic
Mar 13, 2021
5,847
10,635
812
I mean, it's unlikely the players will be interested if Edwin spends the fourth week just like the previous three, only as a lackey and empathetic sponge. Something has to happen, right? That's why I mentioned a push in the last message. And I have serious doubts that Edwin can just up and leave when the summer exhibition is not over yet. That would be as stupid as Veronica's threats to stop performing.


This isn't an attempt to justify what the club does, but rather that I don't see the club employees or the carnations as pure victims of circumstance. They may be victims of causes unrelated to the club, but they themselves chose this place to solve their problems (there are exceptions, like Nicolette). Players probably have different views on this, but this is my take.
from a meta narrative perspective we as a player already know that this is just a convincing lie that Kathleen sold to the MC (Edwin) to recruit him

Kathy lies to almost everyone even when she doesn't
it always comes with a twist or some kind of price to pay

seems like darius already paid the "price" to leave the club
don't forget kathy isn't going to let the MC walk away from the club when the week 4 games end
just like with hana she is grooming/poaching talent that would be useful to her in future

do you really think she and rest of the VIPs are going to let someone useful especially someone like MC who is studying to be a doctor no less just walk away ?

no chance

it's already hinted in some ways
many of the side characters like grace , abel are already trying to recruit the MC to work for them
maybeworking for them won't be nearly as bad as working for Kathleen

or the MC could try to find out what happened to darius before week 4 and hopefully don't make the same mistakes as him
Ironically enough the MC has already committed the same mistake as Darius (he has already possibly depending on your choices has fallen in love with one of the carnations something kathy will try to use it against the MC)

don't forget so far the only young "talent" who has managed to survive past the past carnation games are ian and hana both are directly related to one of the main bosses by blood so theyare technically "safer" from her wrath should things get bad when compared to the MC who just like Darius isn't one of them
they are both replaceable outsiders
Do you remember the prologue?

Edwin isn't leaving the club after the 4 exhibition weeks. The Exhibition is only a month period in a year: Edwin has been hired by uncle Chuck as a club employee - as long as he works for the club, Chuck is paying Edwin's college tuition too.

Edwin has neither been a lackey nor an empathetic sponge. Not at all.

He pursued Mina and Hana.
He dated Felicia before and after he discovered she was the third carnation.
He decided to help Veronica.
He started investigating about Darius.
He helped Rosalind with the loan shark.
He questioned Uncle Chuck's deeds.
He informed Ian and Hana about everything he found out and his doubts.
He helped Jacob's "girlfriend".

So, what the hell do you want from him? did you expect he beat the shit out of Warren?
 

Leinad_Sevla

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2023
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Hello all, TD here with the first developer diary of the Ch4Up7 cycle.
This more of a wellness check as there isn't really much yet to report. Image work began a couple days ago, and GIL has been largely toiling away on animations to be used for the future while I narrow down and ink in the specifics of the exhibition games.
All told currently the update sits at 21 static images, 0 animations, and 223 words.
There's technically 7 animations prepped, but we won't count those in the official totals. We tried that last update and keeping track of 'em was a pain.
Anyway as you can see, we're just getting started. Lot and time and energy went into dotting our Is and crossing the Ts. We felt it necessary since we're aiming to get this update out with a quicker turn around. The update's contents shouldn't surprise anyone: it's the exhibition. They'll be twists and turns of course, but you all know what to expect. Coming up with diabolical games has been challenging, but rewarding.
Anyway, keeping it short, but thank you all for your support during our last release period. It was our most successful ever and the feedback was as invigorating as we hoped. Without you guys, I am just a guy spamming onomatopoeias and GIL is playing with dolls. You're the best.
I wonder if Felicia being unconscious will be used as being part of the exhibition.
 

Turret

Forum Fanatic
Jun 23, 2017
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I mean, it's unlikely the players will be interested if Edwin spends the fourth week just like the previous three, only as a lackey and empathetic sponge. Something has to happen, right? That's why I mentioned a push in the last message. And I have serious doubts that Edwin can just up and leave when the summer exhibition is not over yet. That would be as stupid as Veronica's threats to stop performing.


This isn't an attempt to justify what the club does, but rather that I don't see the club employees or the carnations as pure victims of circumstance. They may be victims of causes unrelated to the club, but they themselves chose this place to solve their problems (there are exceptions, like Nicolette). Players probably have different views on this, but this is my take.
from a meta narrative perspective we as a player already know that this is just a convincing lie that Kathleen sold to the MC (Edwin) to recruit him

Kathy lies to almost everyone even when she doesn't
it always comes with a twist or some kind of price to pay

seems like darius already paid the "price" to leave the club
don't forget kathy isn't going to let the MC walk away from the club when the week 4 games end
just like with hana she is grooming/poaching talent that would be useful to her in future

do you really think she and rest of the VIPs are going to let someone useful especially someone like MC who is studying to be a doctor no less just walk away ?

no chance

it's already hinted in some ways
many of the side characters like grace , abel are already trying to recruit the MC to work for them
maybeworking for them won't be nearly as bad as working for Kathleen

or the MC could try to find out what happened to darius before week 4 and hopefully don't make the same mistakes as him
Ironically enough the MC has already committed the same mistake as Darius (he has already possibly depending on your choices has fallen in love with one of the carnations something kathy will try to use it against the MC)

don't forget so far the only young "talent" who has managed to survive past the past carnation games are ian and hana both are directly related to one of the main bosses by blood so theyare technically "safer" from her wrath should things get bad when compared to the MC who just like Darius isn't one of them
they are both replaceable outsiders
Hi!
That week 4 will be different has been hinted at by TD quite deftly and often during the game. It seriously hit me when I played a fresh start recently. But I think that Edwin will not become superactive, there will be a rise of activities from him and others around him, but it is not realistic that he becomes an action hero like in the movies.

This is not a "Stirb langsam"(Die hard) recreation, neither Edwin nor Ian or Hana are in a position or have the abilities to take the Club Leadership head-on. Those players opposing Kath and Chuck need to gather support, wherever they can. So Edwin will be active in that week, but different than some players may think.
Ian being your bro will pay off (if you made the effort to repair their friendship), having good relations with Hana and having helped repair her relations with August will also be very helpful. Just look at this scene. Those two are totally on board with what happens(Irony off);)
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When the situation strives towards the climax, maybe the lead starts to fly, you also want further help. Jacob, even Samson, Warren, Elias and Otto might play a part in that, depending on your choices. Maybe even how you treated the house girls will become a topic. And for the big guns Abel and Sophia, if you want to take down Kath and Chuck. We know that they oppose them and want to bring Edwin on their side.
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The same gathering of forces is essential for the dark sadist Edwin licking Kath´s boots. Ian is a boon for this Edwin too, but he should make sure to keep Hana´s anger and selfishness high. Because only then August will stand fast on Chuck and Kath´s side. The reflective August due to his tighter relations with Hana is not something the dark Edwin wants.
Gaining allies among the cast is the same crucial process as for "white knight" or "grey" Edwin, but the faces are partly different. Grace will play a role here too, maybe Allison. Even if she was called in only to destroy the relations of Elias and Edwin with Felicia and others.

They were talking about Kathleen, who is not a side character.
In terms of romance she's a side girl, on par with Sophia. There are 5 main girls
Would be a shame if she is only considered a side girl since I think she offers something completely different story wise to the other main characters
Sophia doesn't have her own gallery page. Kathleen does.
I'm sure she will get it eventually

She has been demoted. She didn't appear on the last
She appears on the
That Kathleen as a LI has been demoted is quite logical. While she is a different type of LI compared to many typical ones, she is an option only for a dark Edwin. And realistically speaking Kath can never be more than an affair for any Edwin. Kath is a hardcore sadist, which limits her emotional range and expression, that is a fact. What little love she can feel and express is given her husband as we could see in the game. Edwin would always be an affair, her gopher and sidekick. Ok, one day her successor at the club, but romatically there is nothing which could go further than a deep affair.

Dr. Sophia Lundgren, possible personality grafts and imprints aside, is also a breath of fresh air on the romance side. As I wrote many times before, an amoral, calculating, eccentric, nerdy genius is extremly rare as a LI, because few writers can bring eccentric across well. I personally know some eccentric persons, they are not psychotic, even if some people might think so, psychosis is different. Eccentricity is running on a different set of values, urges and rules than most persons. To paraphrase George Kelly: We see the (and interact with the) world through our own selfmade constructs and templates. Eccentricity is consistent use of the personal rule and template set, no matter how unusual these templates might be. Even Sophia´s theatralic sorry to Edwin fits this, her current life is abstracted and structured to such a degree that she hardly understands that there are natural urges to have fun, to enjoy. But unlike Kath, Sophia is able to experience and express the full palette of emotions humankind is capable off.

TD1900 delivers when it comes to eccentricity. And that is one reason why I asked so consistently for a romance path Edwin/Sophia. Worming your way into the eccentric heart of Sophia Lundren is a refreshingly different path to take when it comes to LIs. The story also shows that Edwin and Sophia can click well together. So I sincerly hope that we get a route through Pale Carnations where those two become a couple in the end.
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