VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[ffive]

i just want to impregnate my goth lolita gf hana and have a wholesome family

As long as the father of the bride is a literal, unrepentant pimp, the wholesomeness seems a bit of wishful thinking.

 

[Khan merry]

it's a bit early to talk about endings is it not?

 

[Ottoeight]

it's a bit early to talk about endings is it not?

Definitely. A few years, I guess.

 

[Discrepancy]

Hi!
I think we all agree that a 100% happy end path is very unlikely to exist in PC. And I theorise that such a path would be very convoluted to walk without a walkthrough, hitting it blind with your choices.
Like you and as I mentioned in an earlier post, I think the various happy end paths will either have a bittersweet "extra" or be of the two third or three quarters good, rest bad (there is always a price to be paid) type of ending.

I see the strategy to follow through the game similar to 4-kun : Set your main goals early (e.g. it is very clear that unless you play as..., sadist Edwin, the Club needs severe changes if we want to keep it existing), look who you like best and try to get them through. I also try to do as much good as I can, as long as it does not negatively impact my main directives.
As an example, in my 3 "head canon" playthroughs our hero sometimes chooses the hard options despite not wanting to, but knowing he cannot e.g. have too low trust from the PC leadership.

As for penzor s ending wish, I would add that I would like to impregnate Hana, Felicia and Sophia and have wholesome families with them in their respective playthroughs.

If Sophia turns out to be "evil" and convince Edwin to use all the girls to do her experiments pretty sure your Edwin would become the darth vader of pimps easily

 

[Turret]

If Sophia turns out to be "evil" and convince Edwin to use all the girls to do her experiments pretty sure your Edwin would become the darth vader of pimps easily

Well, going by what we currently know, this is highly improbable! Esp. after the orgy. Her conscience is not Alpina- white,Sophia is opportunistic, eccentric and ends justify the means person, but clearly not evil. e.g. Kath would be incapable of this point of view and neither would she be able to empathize.

Spoiler

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It would be a fun situation if Viktoria visits our hero in the coming week in his flat when the Doktor is also there. That is a possibility since if you are on Sophia´s path or at least are open to support Abel and her then someday soon there must be a warplanning council. Even if that is most probably somewhere on the two doctors turf. New location is waiting.


By the way, even with a new start in the public version, a bug is still there. You can get this dialog. Unless I missinterpret some English construction, it should be Oliver instead of Jacob here.

 

[JJJ84]

Just finished the replay of the game in order to get a better result with Ian.

Pretty much ctrl fast skipped the scenes which I remember well (for most part), but ngl.
I was surprised to see bunch of scenes which I remember seeing when I played the game years ago.

A lot of them seem to be Ian scenes; and by selecting the "self-reflect" option, I was able to get the outcome I wanted.
And in the 'talk with Ian alone' scene just before Felicia reveal to Elias, I chose "wanted to set Ian straight" option rather than "vengeance on Grace (Ian's mom)" path.

LI like Hana is probably the biggest factor of why I enjoy this game, but MC's & Ian's bromance I think is another reason why I enjoy this VN a lot.

Two things that came to my mind after finishing replay;

1) While I steered Ian away from the path of vengeance and advised him to take the morally high road, I do still wish Grace gets some sort of comeuppance of sorts; which none of it's Edwin's or Ian's doing.
Otherwise if she just gets off scot free, I'd feel incredibly dissatisfied.

2) This one, I'd imagine may be divisive among this game's fans - is it just me, or does anyone think Ian & Mina should get back together? Some may disagree; especially players having Edwin romancing Mina.
But I honestly think that assuming the player has Edwin steer Ian towards path of redemption (him genuinely trying to apologize to Mina is a start), Ian and Mina getting back together would be good for Ian.

There is already the chemistry there, with the whole "Never have I ever" game that Edwin, Hana, Ian & Mina played in early game.
Plus, Ian being an asshole to Mina in early game (and conversely me having Edwin be the nice guy) whittled Mina's "Killian romance" points down to zero at this stage.
It would be nice to stack that stat back up, with Edwin & Hana playing wingman & wingwoman, given Hana is now a good friend to Mina to (with Ian, it goes without saying; my Edwin's Bromance stat with Ian is maxed lol).

One serious obstacle there would be is Ian's affiliation of the club, and how Mina reacts to it if cat ever gets out of the bag on that one. But that's actually something Mina will have to overcome not just with Ian, but with every single one of her friends (Edwin, Felicia, Hana).

Just some random thoughts on it, though I'm sure TD1900 will have fitting arcs planned for Grace and Ian (and by extension Mina).

 

[Chakas]

I'd feel incredibly dissatisfied

Welcome to the morally high road, forgive and forget otherwise deal with it at the same level.

 

[ffive]

2) This one, I'd imagine may be divisive among this game's fans - is it just me, or does anyone think Ian & Mina should get back together? Some may disagree; especially players having Edwin romancing Mina.
But I honestly think that assuming the player has Edwin steer Ian towards path of redemption (him genuinely trying to apologize to Mina is a start), Ian and Mina getting back together would be good for Ian.

If the entire premise for their renewed relationship is supposed to be "it would be good for Ian" then no, thank you. Mina really doesn't deserve to be treated as nothing but a device for the fuckboi to have some sort of redemption arc after the shit he's put her through.

There are literal billions of other women out there Ian can hook up with, and he's working hard towards that goal already (and always has been)

 

[JJJ84]

If the entire premise for their renewed relationship is supposed to be "it would be good for Ian" then no, thank you. Mina really doesn't deserve to be treated as nothing but a device for the fuckboi to have some sort of redemption arc after the shit he's put her through.

There are literal billions of other women out there Ian can hook up with, and he's working hard towards that goal already (and always has been)

I mean, I'm not discounting at all what Ian has done.
What he has done (intentionally trying to push Mina's buttons to see how far it takes till she breaks up with him) was him being a literal asshole and absolute deplorable thing to do.
Difference between then and now is that before, Ian wasn't aware (and didn't care about his actions), and now he does, given Edwin set him on the "self-reflect"/redemption path - assuming player chose this path for Ian.

Besides, let's set aside the "who Mina deserves" aspect, & looks at it down in terms of overall story aspect.
Can Ian hook up with billions of other women out there?
Sure. But establishing any as his potential girlfriend (as Edwin suggest just as Hell Week starts assuming player took "self-reflect" path with him) to enter the storyline?

Well, I don't see any.
Literally 99% of the women we saw Ian with have all been flings and never been in an actual relationship, so to establish someone new suddenly to establish as Ian's girlfriend in the future I just don't see working this far deep into the game (especially given I think this game is slowly heading closer towards its finishline).
Even character like Amber (girl who works at the hair salon, who did Edwin's new hair), was just given barely any characterization.

In contrast to that, following is what Mina has;

- was in a relationship with Ian previously (though not a good experience)
- already has much established characterization (hence no need to go into all the backstory of who she is and bla bla like with a new LI character for Ian)
- good friends with Edwin & Hana already (and decent relationship with the Carnations too, if her meet with them at Hana's concert is anything to go by)


additionally;
- with Mina, her story has always had a bit of an issue that it felt disjointed from the main storyline compared to other characters like Hana, Rose, Felicia, Veronica since she doesn't work at the club.

So having her forgive Ian, but they start off friends but gradually rekindle their romance I dunno about you but I can see working (compared to introducing a "nobody" LI for Ian whom I won't care about about at all at this stage).

By re-establishing the Mina-Ian romance, it solves a lot of issues in terms of introducing a new girlfriend for Ian (literally hitting 2 or even 3 birds with one stone lol).
Only thing which it comes down to is whether Mina decides to forgive Ian or not and start afresh for both of them.

Welcome to the morally high road, forgive and forget otherwise deal with it at the same level.

Uh, not really.
There doesn't just need to be the 2 extremes, but also the middle ground.

For instance, with taking the high road; sure.
Ian will likely give up on his vengeance plan (with Edwin's persuasion), but that doesn't mean he and MC can't go about ways in which they can make Grace feel really ...... defeated (for the lack of better term).

For instance, Ian's hobby is photography. Even Victoria states to Grace to possibly build that up as a job.
But Grace shows disdain/digust at even the mention of it. So what if Ian, becomes an actual photographer (as a legit job he takes seriously) and with help of MC gets some kind of leverage (like stated in this update) which stops Grace from cutting Ian off financially?

Grace failing in her scheme to send Ian to college and him getting the job she looks down upon (while unable to cut him off), I'd say is a good enough comeuppance for her (let's add Ian actually acting cold around her or even cutting off contact with her for good measure ).

Just because it's the high road route, it doesn't necessarily mean forgive and forget (and yes, I did use forgiveness for Ian and Mina example above, but difference between Ian and Grace is that Ian is completely different from Grace. Not to mention Grace's action not just impacted Ian, but also Victoria and Edwin, and Ian's actions towards Mina, despite being deplorable didn't affect other people causing them distress, tears & fury).
Doing so would just absolutely diminish the impact of Grace's Victoria blackmail & emotional effect it had on both Edwin & Ian.

 

[ename144]

If the entire premise for their renewed relationship is supposed to be "it would be good for Ian" then no, thank you. Mina really doesn't deserve to be treated as nothing but a device for the fuckboi to have some sort of redemption arc after the shit he's put her through.

There are literal billions of other women out there Ian can hook up with, and he's working hard towards that goal already (and always has been)

I agree that Mina shouldn't be reduced to a mere reward for Ian, but I do think there are some valid reasons why the two might try to reconcile if Ian is on the path to becoming a better person, and there is some potential chemistry between them. That said, I'm now all in on shooting the moon and trying for the Ian/Mina/MC throuple instead.

Plus, Ian being an asshole to Mina in early game (and conversely me having Edwin be the nice guy) whittled Mina's "Killian romance" points down to zero at this stage.
It would be nice to stack that stat back up, with Edwin & Hana playing wingman & wingwoman, given Hana is now a good friend to Mina to (with Ian, it goes without saying; my Edwin's Bromance stat with Ian is maxed lol).

Amusingly, my new Mina-centric run wound up with a staggering 5 Killian Romance points by the time the MC was hanging out with her before the Exhibition.

Apparently waiting those extra few days to make a move on her shields the Romance value from that crippling -3 hit. She's still officially just an Acting Partners, too. I'm not sure if that's intentional or an extremely obscure bug, but if it helps get that throuple I won't complain.

 

[JJJ84]

I agree that Mina shouldn't be reduced to a mere reward for Ian, but I do think there are some valid reasons why the two might try to reconcile if Ian is on the path to becoming a better person, and there is some potential chemistry between them.

Yup, this.

And as I stated in my original post, it would be far too much (and rushed/sloppy work) to establish a brand new LI for Ian who he genuinely gets in a real relationship with, and not just just a fling.
The whole "billions of other women out there" would work if it was early game where Ian self-reflected.

But it's not, and any "new" girlfriend character who comes into light will need to start the relationship building literally right from the scratch (with Mina, no need).

Plus, given Mina's bubbly/wholesome personality, I honestly can't see Mina having a grudge against Ian for long if she sees that his apology is genuine & he's changed.
I can see her reply to his apology "let's just be friends again and take it from there." starting their relationship building slowly.

Otherwise, if Mina continues to hold grudge, all that's gonna result is Ian just top-toeing around avoiding Mina just making it a very awkward environment for Mina, Edwin & Hana (like with the concert situation when they were smoking pot).

 

[Discrepancy]

I agree that Mina shouldn't be reduced to a mere reward for Ian, but I do think there are some valid reasons why the two might try to reconcile if Ian is on the path to becoming a better person, and there is some potential chemistry between them. That said, I'm now all in on shooting the moon and trying for the Ian/Mina/MC throuple instead.

I'm not interested in a throuple relationship there, Edwin and Ian had that before and did not went well, but Mina and Ian becoming cordial or even friends would be cool and if it lead to threesomes or foursomes with Hana or Felish would be great
By the way I wonder if the girl of that throuple relationship will ever appear again (sorry can't remember her name)

 

[ename144]

I'm not interested in a throuple relationship there, Edwin and Ian had that before and did not went well, but Mina and Ian becoming cordial or even friends would be cool and if it lead to threesomes or foursomes with Hana or Felish would be great
By the way I wonder if the girl of that throuple relationship will ever appear again (sorry can't remember her name)

Her name was Marlow. And sure, that went terribly, but I prefer to think of it as practice for the real throuple now that Mina is here.

As for whether Marlow will show up again, I doubt it. She plays a role in the MC's backstory, but it's a small one and I don't see a lot she can add to the mix at this point. The game has more than enough balls to juggle just with the characters already involved in the current day. But we'll see what happens.

Fair warning, though: if we do get the return of Marlow in a special interlude titled "Crossroads," I am out!!

 

[Discrepancy]

Fair warning, though: if we do get the return of Marlow in a special interlude titled "Crossroads," I am out!!

Will she dye her hair blue and go surf to California though?

 

[hitman2511]

The only throuple for me is MC/Hana/Mina and a throuple with a man is GAY.

 

[Turret]

I agree that Mina shouldn't be reduced to a mere reward for Ian, but I do think there are some valid reasons why the two might try to reconcile if Ian is on the path to becoming a better person, and there is some potential chemistry between them. That said, I'm now all in on shooting the moon and trying for the Ian/Mina/MC throuple instead.

Amusingly, my new Mina-centric run wound up with a staggering 5 Killian Romance points by the time the MC was hanging out with her before the Exhibition.
View attachment 5364776
Apparently waiting those extra few days to make a move on her shields the Romance value from that crippling -3 hit. She's still officially just an Acting Partners, too. I'm not sure if that's intentional or an extremely obscure bug, but if it helps get that throuple I won't complain.

And as I stated in my original post, it would be far too much (and rushed/sloppy work) to establish a brand new LI for Ian who he genuinely gets in a real relationship with, and not just just a fling.
The whole "billions of other women out there" would work if it was early game where Ian self-reflected.

But it's not, and any "new" girlfriend character who comes into light will need to start the relationship building literally right from the scratch (with Mina, no need).

Hi!
I agree with you both that a reconciliation between Ian and Mina should be a possibility. I tried to help them stay together like a good friend should. Going into the "Elias Evening", they still have a 6 Romance rating.
A Killian who is reflective of his deeds should have the chance to regain a relationship with Mina.

Also agree that a brand new LI for Ian would be extremly problematic to establish at this point in the game. She would need to be introduced quite broadly, taking away space from the current cast. We see this to a certain degree with Allison, who most probably is not meant as a real LI option and she is crossing paths with Edwin, not Ian.
For Edwin as LI we have our 5 main girls plus Sophia and Kath as the only female characters fleshed out properly enough for a game with intense characterisation to be real options. Even Andrea and Dalia as already established characters hypothetically pushed in during the next week would be reaching. Doable if needed, but reaching. No, for our hero the love options are Hana, Felicia, Sophia, Mina, Rosi, Veronika and Kath.

For Ian, who is an important character, but still a side character, the possible list of established LIs is smaller: Mina, Viktoria, Alice and Hana(the relations between the two steadily getting less frosty) in runs where Edwin goes for another girl. Those 4 are the only female characters in Ian´s orbit to be valid options.

 

[ename144]

For the record, I don't think Killian "needs" a fleshed-out girlfriend to wrap up his story, not even if the MC does help straighten his life out. We've already met Amber, and she would be more than sufficient to show that Ian is taking things more seriously this time; the exact details aren't as important as the broad strokes, and Ian can deliver those on his own. (Amber would also be more than sufficient to show if Ian isn't taking her more seriously than Mina, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.)

Obviously if it *is* possible for him to get back together with Mina, that would require a lot more detail, but that's because Mina is a main character in her own right. Ian is not reliant on her for a satisfying finale, at least not in my book.

 

[JJJ84]

For Ian, who is an important character, but still a side character, the possible list of established LIs is smaller: Mina, Viktoria, Alice and Hana(the relations between the two steadily getting less frosty) in runs where Edwin goes for another girl. Those 4 are the only female characters in Ian´s orbit to be valid options.

My run's Mina & Killiance romance stat is zero.
But regardless, I hope that doesn't make it impossible for them to reconcile & possibly build their relationship up (and regain stats) again.

As for Ian's possible LIs, I wouldn't count Victoria or Hana as his LIs tbh.
With the former, well Victoria raised Ian along with Edwin (I know, I know. he fucked Alice, but this is Edwin's mom we're referring to. I really don't think he's gonna mess up his relationship with his best friend, especially given my Edwin's Bromance with Ian stat is maxed).

With Hana, I haven't had Edwin romance anyone other than Hana, but I'm skeptical she would go for him even in non-Hana routes (though can't say it with certainty I suppose).

As for Alice?
Uh, well he fucked her, but honestly I don't think there's any genuine love love there from Ian.
There's affection in which he feels given she raised him, as well as good trust, but love (as in romance) might be reaching it.

 

[Turret]

For the record, I don't think Killian "needs" a fleshed-out girlfriend to wrap up his story, not even if the MC does help straighten his life out. We've already met Amber, and she would be more than sufficient to show that Ian is taking things more seriously this time; the exact details aren't as important as the broad strokes, and Ian can deliver those on his own. (Amber would also be more than sufficient to show if Ian isn't taking her more seriously than Mina, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.)

Obviously if it *is* possible for him to get back together with Mina, that would require a lot more detail, but that's because Mina is a main character in her own right. Ian is not reliant on her for a satisfying finale, at least not in my book.

While you are right that Ian does not "need" a fully fleshed out LI to round out his path, it would run contrary to what we witnessed in the game so far. All possible love options have been and still are fleshed out with care for Edwin. Ian is important enough in the game that it is less conceivable his LIs being less introduced than e.g. Jerrica, a complete side character, is.

 

[Simpgor]

Like more willing participants like Felicia and less like Rose and Veronica (still I think those last two are starting to enjoy parts of the debauchery there )

If the club was more consensual Veronica would 100% want to be a patron