VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch.4 Up.6 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[HDussen]

My best guess on the crab thing is that it is a sneaky and clever way of getting around the issue of the player stacking the deck in favour of (and/or against) any particular Carnation.

Up until now, we have had the freedom to decide both winner and loser of each exhibition. Keep that up for a third week, and we could easily have a situation with Felicia winning three in a row and Veronica losing three in a row (to rank them alphabetically). Making it a tad difficult to construct a believable story where we are going into week four with everything still to play for.

But by dedicating week three to pitting two against whoever is in the lead at any moment, uncertainty (in week four) becomes almost certain. Even if Edwin manages to nudge things a bit in one direction or other, 2v1 should be too much of an obstacle to completely overcome.

 

[harsha_26]

Suggestion to players who haven't played this update yet: If you have a weak heart, please hold this update and play the full chapter on next release. I'm not saying you will feel better, but atleast you will feel better than this update.

 

[FRVN]

My best guess on the crab thing is that it is a sneaky and clever way of getting around the issue of the player stacking the deck in favour of (and/or against) any particular Carnation.

Up until now, we have had the freedom to decide both winner and loser of each exhibition. Keep that up for a third week, and we could easily have a situation with Felicia winning three in a row and Veronica losing three in a row (to rank them alphabetically). Making it a tad difficult to construct a believable story where we are going into week four with everything still to play for.

But by dedicating week three to pitting two against whoever is in the lead at any moment, uncertainty (in week four) becomes almost certain. Even if Edwin manages to nudge things a bit in one direction or other, 2v1 should be too much of an obstacle to completely overcome.

Maybe I misunderstood something, but my understanding is that there is no "winner" of the first exhibition, as it was not designed to single out one winner and two losers, but rather to put them through a gauntlet where they had to succeed in order not to lose, and all three succeeded. Therefore, there is no situation where a winner could be determined before the final exhibition in week 4.

 

[Discrepancy]

Maybe I misunderstood something, but my understanding is that there is no "winner" of the first exhibition, as it was not designed to single out one winner and two losers, but rather to put them through a gauntlet where they had to succeed in order not to lose, and all three succeeded. Therefore, there is no situation where a winner could be determined before the final exhibition in week 4.

Yeah, the first exhibition the one that won the first part just didn't had to continue for the day, if she won the full day why would the others had to compete for the rest of the day right?

 

[Draim]

Suggestion to players who haven't played this update yet: If you have a weak heart, please hold this update and play the full chapter on next release. I'm not saying you will feel better, but atleast you will feel better than this update.

SKIP UPDATE UNTIL MC DON'T FUCK HER OWN MOTHER . BE A MEN, BE A HARD IN OWN FAITH AND DECISION.

 

[Turret]

Maybe I misunderstood something, but my understanding is that there is no "winner" of the first exhibition, as it was not designed to single out one winner and two losers, but rather to put them through a gauntlet where they had to succeed in order not to lose, and all three succeeded. Therefore, there is no situation where a winner could be determined before the final exhibition in week 4.

Yeah, the first exhibition the one that won the first part just didn't had to continue for the day, if she won the full day why would the others had to compete for the rest of the day right?

Hi guys!
There is the possibilty of a winner after this exhibition week, at least in theory. The win in week 1 is a full win! If e.g. Felicia won in the first week, she has one point for that win. That the other two had to compete further was simply for the guests and Kath´s sadism in special.
If there is a winner in week 2, she gets a(nother) point. Only if there is a draw in week 2, nobody scores a point for that week. Depending on what you did, it is possible that one Carnation has 2 points already. We can rest assured that in such a case Kath will move heaven and hell to prevent a "premature" win.

 

[Discrepancy]

Hi guys!
There is the possibilty of a winner after this exhibition week, at least in theory. The win in week 1 is a full win! If e.g. Felicia won in the first week, she has one point for that win. That the other two had to compete further was simply for the guests and Kath´s sadism in special.
If there is a winner in week 2, she gets a(nother) point. Only if there is a draw in week 2, nobody scores a point for that week. Depending on what you did, it is possible that one Carnation has 2 points already. We can rest assured that in such a case Kath will move heaven and hell to prevent a "premature" win.

Is that stated in the game or you just assuming? Not saying you're wrong but I replayed the game a few weeks ago and I didn't get that impression.

 

[FRVN]

Hi guys!
There is the possibilty of a winner after this exhibition week, at least in theory. The win in week 1 is a full win! If e.g. Felicia won in the first week, she has one point for that win. That the other two had to compete further was simply for the guests and Kath´s sadism in special.
If there is a winner in week 2, she gets a(nother) point. Only if there is a draw in week 2, nobody scores a point for that week. Depending on what you did, it is possible that one Carnation has 2 points already. We can rest assured that in such a case Kath will move heaven and hell to prevent a "premature" win.

Spoiler: Exhibition 1

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The game certainly seems to point to there being no sole winner for the first exhibition.

 

[Turret]

Is that stated in the game or you just assuming? Not saying you're wrong but I replayed the game a few weeks ago and I didn't get that impression.

Hi!
The winner of the first round is the overall winner of the week.

Kath spells it out: Winner of the first game has ALSO the additional benefit of sitting out the rest of the night. A point and bypassing the rest of the night´s "games".


When making the screenshots, I made this one just for our resident butt lovers

The game certainly seems to point to there being no sole winner for the first exhibition.

The thing is in your example Veronica, can catch up on the money side, if she wins the punishment game. But that hinges on your participation! If you follow Hana, the Carnation in the punishment game will ALWAYS loose, that you can see in the profiles later on.
In my example Felicia wins the first game and the evening overall. Rosi wins the second game and might be awarded a point. Veronica lost, since I always follow Hana in canon playthroughs.

 

[FRVN]

Hi!
The winner of the first round is the overall winner of the week.
View attachment 5428739
Kath spells it out: Winner of the first game has ALSO the additional benefit of sitting out the rest of the night. A point and bypassing the rest of the night´s "games".
View attachment 5428748
View attachment 5428749
When making the screenshots, I made this one just for our resident butt lovers
View attachment 5428758


The thing is in your example Veronica, can catch up on the money side, if she wins the punishment game. But that hinges on your participation! If you follow Hana, the Carnation in the punishment game will ALWAYS loose, that you can see in the profiles later on.
In my example Felicia wins the first game and the evening overall. Rosi wins the second game and might be awarded a point. Veronica lost, since I always follow Hana in canon playthroughs.
View attachment 5428769
View attachment 5428824

Right, but it specifically says the first game of the first exhibition, not the exhibition itself. All three girls won one of the three games of the exhibition, so there is no sole winner. In fact, the way it is set up, there can only be three winners, or two winners and a loser, the latter being impossible because the game always has the last Carnation earning enough money.

 

[Turret]

And here it is for the possible draw in week 2.

 

[Discrepancy]

Hi!
The winner of the first round is the overall winner of the week.
View attachment 5428739
Kath spells it out: Winner of the first game has ALSO the additional benefit of sitting out the rest of the night. A point and bypassing the rest of the night´s "games".
View attachment 5428748
View attachment 5428749
When making the screenshots, I made this one just for our resident butt lovers
View attachment 5428758


The thing is in your example Veronica, can catch up on the money side, if she wins the punishment game. But that hinges on your participation! If you follow Hana, the Carnation in the punishment game will ALWAYS loose, that you can see in the profiles later on.
In my example Felicia wins the first game and the evening overall. Rosi wins the second game and might be awarded a point. Veronica lost, since I always follow Hana in canon playthroughs.
View attachment 5428769
View attachment 5428824

Winner of the first game, not of the first exhibition (was writing this and saw FRVN said the same)

Right, but it specifically says the first game of the first exhibition, not the exhibition itself. All three girls won one of the three games of the exhibition, so there is no sole winner. In fact, the way it is set up, there can only be three winners, or two winners and a loser, the latter being impossible because the game always has the last Carnation earning enough money.

Yeah, I'm reading the scene this way too. Maybe TD1900 can clarify it for us?

 

[Turret]

Right, but it specifically says the first game of the first exhibition, not the exhibition itself. All three girls won one of the three games of the exhibition, so there is no sole winner. In fact, the way it is set up, there can only be three winners, or two winners and a loser, the latter being impossible because the game always has the last Carnation earning enough money.

That is correct, but it is heavily implied with the priviledge to sit out the rest of the evening that the winner of the first game is considered the overall winner of the evening.
In my example only Felicia got updated profile posts, not the others. In addition the possible draw in week 2 shows that not winning puts all into the punishment games. In our example Felicia sat out the punishment games in week 1. I see this as a sign of the overall winner of the first week.
Addendum: The last Carnation in week one does NOT always earn enough money to gain a point, just enough to get into next round. If you follow Hana, the punished Carnation always loose here.

 

[FRVN]

That is correct, but it is heavily implied with the priviledge to sit out the rest of the evening that the winner of the first game is considered the overall winner of the evening.

Where is this implied?

In my example only Felicia got updated profile posts, not the others. In addition the possible draw in week 2 shows that not winning puts all into the punishment games. In our example Felicia sat out the punishment games in week 1. I see this as a sign of the overall winner of the first week.

Actually, only game three is designated the punishment game, but even then, the participant has a chance to win:

Spoiler: Third Game

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Addendum: The last Carnation in week one does NOT always earn enough money to gain a point, just enough to get into next round. If you follow Hana, the punished Carnation always loose here.

Can you provide evidence of this? Because I have never seen it being mentioned that the Carnation failed game three if you went to see Hana.

 

[marcodelamoret]

​

Hello,

I know of course, developers have to make a living.
It's a lot of work for the devs.
At the same time, it also gives the most talented ones a great showcase, like this game, both for their technical achievements and their storytelling.

Any chance to hace the end of pale carnation ?

Thks

 

[GIL3D]

Any chance to hace the end of pale carnation ?

Yes. Unless one of us is awakened from the slumber of this existence, it will happen. It's been planned and designed for a while now.

 

[Turret]

Can you provide evidence of this? Because I have never seen it being mentioned that the Carnation failed game three if you went to see Hana.

That is quite easy to proof: Here is your screenshot from after the punishment game.
https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-car...81/post-18611016#lg=attachment5428824&slide=0
It is telling us that Veronica earned enough money for the next round.

This is a sceenshot from one of my canon playthroughs after the punishment game, also Veronica to show the difference.

The difference here is because I went for Hana! This profile post shows and implies pretty much that Veronica lost! Being on the chopping block is definitly not making enough money to be on equal footing. For me English is a second language and even I can see the difference in meaning.

 

[FRVN]

That is quite easy to proof: Here is your screenshot from after the punishment game.
https://f95zone.to/threads/pale-car...81/post-18611016#lg=attachment5428824&slide=0
It is telling us that Veronica earned enough money for the next round.

This is a sceenshot from one of my canon playthroughs after the punishment game, also Veronica to show the difference.
View attachment 5429159
The difference here is because I went for Hana! This profile post shows and implies pretty much that Veronica lost! Being on the chopping block is definitly not making enough money to be on equal footing. For me English is a second language and even I can see the difference in meaning.

You are misreading that message. It’s saying she narrowly lost the second game (ass-to-ass with either Rose or Felicia), and will be facing the final game (the cum tribute challenge); it does not state whether she won or lost that game. The reason it's different is because Edwin did not witness her during the game, so it just leaves it at his last awareness of her situation.
Maybe I'll have to go back through and see if it is brought up somewhere else, but I do not think it is ever mentioned that a Carnation lost the third game if you went to see Hana.

 

[Simpgor]

Damn "crabs in a bucket" being the "theme" is somehow worse than the kind of crabs you'd expect in a AVN

 

[HDussen]

Maybe I misunderstood something, but my understanding is that there is no "winner" of the first exhibition, as it was not designed to single out one winner and two losers, but rather to put them through a gauntlet where they had to succeed in order not to lose, and all three succeeded. Therefore, there is no situation where a winner could be determined before the final exhibition in week 4.

Sure there is. I cannot recall if a points system has been specifically defined in the game, but let us look at a couple of the most obvious alternatives:

1. Winner gets 1 point, the other two nothing.

Even in a case of no points awarded in week 1, winning both w2&3 ensures a win before w4.

2. Winner gets 2 points, second gets 1, loser 0.

Even in a case of no points awarded in week 1, winning both w2&3 ensures a win before w4, as long as the other two score one each. (Making the scores 4-1-1.)

3. Winner gets 3 points, second gets 1, loser 0.

Even in a case of no points awarded in week 1, winning both w2&3 ensures a win before w4, regardless of how 2nd and 3rd are sorted. (Scores would be either 6-2-0 or 6-1-1.)

The point (hah!) is that if the exhibitions are scored like a sports event, with each week rewarded equally, it is incredibly easy to end up in a situation where week 4 is rendered pointless from a competition perspective.

One way to get around that issue is to increase the point values for the last exhibition. The downside to that is that to raise them enough so that everyone still has a chance of winning on the last day, regardless of how badly they did on the first three, those first three become almost pointless (hah! again), other than as entertainment and exercises in humiliation.

Another way is the crab thing alluded to. Start the second-to-last exhibition with a summary of the lay of the land, and then give the ones not in the lead the chance to team up and bring the leader down to their level. No guarantees, but 2v1 should be pretty solid odds for success.

Because, as was mentioned by Turret above, there is no way in hell that Kath has not rigged this game in such a way that there is still all to play for in w4.

ETA: Even without any sort of point system, or some other way to actually measure the standings, it would be incredibly weird to have one person win 3 exhibitions in a row, narrowly fail to win the fourth, and end up beaten overall. Hence why using the third exhibition to even out the playing field before the final (by whatever means) is needed to keep things open.