Ren'Py Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

[Grey Wolf 73]

Okay, let me chime in for a second. First of all, let me get a water sprayer and say "No! Bad Panzermaster!", not because your idea is bad, but because it's too much. What ifs aren't full games, they're not even games technically. It's just a couple of scenes. What you're describing (twice) is an entire new game, with new goals and new stories.

Now we have that out of the way, let me put down the water sprayer and tell you why your idea is bad. What ifs come from a simple premise, how far fetched it may seem. It has a simple explanation. It can be summarized in a single sentence. It's simply "what if I went left instead of right". What you're describing is something entirely new, just with the same characters. It's not a what if, it's a re-imagining, a complete ret-con of the established story. What you're describing isn't "what if there suddenly was a zombie apocalypse" but "what if the setting was a zombie apocalypse". One happens during the story, the other is already happening as the story starts. See the difference?

So, basically, while your ideas aren't bad, it's just not for this concept. As a game, I could see it work. As a stand alone, it's just too much and too jarring from the original premise.

I was in the middle of trying to explain, using world-building and other mechanics, the exact same thing you just did.
And your version was far better(and easier to read) than mine. Thank you.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

This is clearly science fiction

There was an attempt to explain it with CRISPR and whatnot, so it was a bit more plausible than say, a magical curse or something, but you make a fair point that it was very much sci-fi.

 

[panzermaster]

Okay, let me chime in for a second. First of all, let me get a water sprayer and say "No! Bad Panzermaster!", not because your idea is bad, but because it's too much. What ifs aren't full games, they're not even games technically. It's just a couple of scenes. What you're describing (twice) is an entire new game, with new goals and new stories.

Now we have that out of the way, let me put down the water sprayer and tell you why your idea is bad. What ifs come from a simple premise, how far fetched it may seem. It has a simple explanation. It can be summarized in a single sentence. It's simply "what if I went left instead of right". What you're describing is something entirely new, just with the same characters. It's not a what if, it's a re-imagining, a complete ret-con of the established story. What you're describing isn't "what if there suddenly was a zombie apocalypse" but "what if the setting was a zombie apocalypse". One happens during the story, the other is already happening as the story starts. See the difference?

So, basically, while your ideas aren't bad, it's just not for this concept. As a game, I could see it work. As a stand alone, it's just too much and too jarring from the original premise.

And my explanation are too Long? you know I only gave details to make it more appealing but in truth I can summarise them much more shortly if you prefer :

1. What if Sterling wake up and realise that him having a harem was all a dream. And when waking up he realise he not only does not have a huge dong, but also the government mandates that him and his family to participate in an efforts against racism (Interacial + Netorare).

(You can remove the dream part and have him lose his manly hood in other ways if you prefer. You know what let's make it shorter now and it would no longer be a retcon)

1. What if Sterling loses his manhood and just afterward, the goverment mandates that his family socially participates in an efforts against racism? (Interracial + netorare)

2. What if Sterling after establishing his Harem in his house and becoming rich decided to expands by infiltrating a college with his girls and keeping all the beautifull women only for himself? (Harem + Netori).

Are the description short enough for you? None of these 2 scenario needs to be overly long, you can easily estalbish that Stelring became the king of the college very quickly with his ressources and charisma. Same thing for the government agents NTR Sterling's harem,

Just like it was easy for Sterling friends in chapter 7 to "establish" himself as the dominant man inside the house and NTR all the women there.

So no there is no requirement for them to be full game. You are inventing that it would need this when it doesn't.

The second suggestion is NOT a retcon, it is a continuation of the story after the end. The idea of Sterling expanding his harem elsewhere was one of his very intention in what if? 3.

Now it's true that my initial version of the first what if? is a retcon... So if you prefer, you have my second suggestions for that what if? that is no longer a retcon. It would also explore a new fetish in that game which was discussed in earlier chapters without Retconning everything.

 

[SuddenReal]

1. What if Sterling loses his manhood and just afterward, the goverment mandates that his family socially participates in an efforts against racism? (Interracial + netorare)

As I said in my post, a what if is simply "what if I went left instead of right"? What you're suggesting is not a simple "what if I took another route" but a specific "what if I went left, took two rights and then left again". It's no longer a simple premise. By adding specific details to the shift, you're shifting away from a what if to a different setting. And by having Sterling lose his manhood, you are changing the established story and thus retconning it.

2. What if Sterling after establishing his Harem in his house and becoming rich decided to expands by infiltrating a college with his girls and keeping all the beautifull women only for himself? (Harem + Netori).

For this one, the question is simply "why?". This goes completely against Sterling's established character, so you need a reason for that. Like I said, a what if has a simple explanation. This doesn't. And no, "to have sex with a bunch of girls" doesn't count.

The idea of Sterling expanding his harem elsewhere was one of his very intention in what if? 3.

Yes, you're right. But that came from the simple explanation: what if Sterling followed in Hunter's footsteps. While you might argue that he does in the game, his first intention is still to keep his family safe, and everyone of his "conquests" aren't because of what he wants, but what Hunter's shenanigans force him to do. And since we can safely assume Hunter will be out of the picture at the end of the game, he'd no longer have the desire to increase his harem, since his priority will still be his family and friends. So, why would he want to expand his harem with girls he doesn't care about?

 

[Caim777]

Apologies for my ignorance, still pretty new here.
I'm playing this game on android and I saw the tags incest but in the main game the girls address the boy as roommate rather than brother. Wondering if I'm doing something wrong. I know there's the patcher but assumed that would be for windows specifically given android folders doesn't have a file to replace.

 

[panzermaster]

As I said in my post, a what if is simply "what if I went left instead of right"? What you're suggesting is not a simple "what if I took another route" but a specific "what if I went left, took two rights and then left again". It's no longer a simple premise. By adding specific details to the shift, you're shifting away from a what if to a different setting. And by having Sterling lose his manhood, you are changing the established story and thus retconning it.

NOPE it is not too far fetched that he loses it, The NTR teaser that we have for the next chapter are pretty much revealing that Stelring might get a hammer with a nail in his penis or a terrible accident like that in one of the bad ends.

AND In one of the bad NTR ending of earlier chapter, Sterling went blind and handicapped so losing his manhood is not that different.

But if you insist, we can have Sterling not lose his manhood but still be forced to participate in the social activity of "fighting racism" by the government. And he will be cuckolded without necessarly losing anything physically, there are ways to do it differently. So no it is not a retcon.

It's not a complicated premise, YOU declare that it is so then you can claim that it shouldn't be done, but the truth is that itsn't.


For this one, the question is simply "why?". This goes completely against Sterling's established character, so you need a reason for that. Like I said, a what if has a simple explanation. This doesn't. And no, "to have sex with a bunch of girls" doesn't count.


Yes it absolutely does, it is what we can call character development and it does not necessarly means for the better in terms of morality. The human nature is to go for something more. Just like many rich people always consider they are not rich enough it can easily happen to anyone and Sterling his not a bastion of morality.

If you wish I can reformulates differently :

2. What if Sterling after establishing his Harem in his house and becoming rich decided to expands to satisfy a newfound lust for power by infiltrating a college with his girls and keeping all the beautifull women only for himself? (Harem + Netori).

You see Sterling had a different personality in What if 3, how about him having a change of heart after the game has been completed and now he wants more?



Yes, you're right. But that came from the simple explanation: what if Sterling followed in Hunter's footsteps. While you might argue that he does in the game, his first intention is still to keep his family safe, and everyone of his "conquests" aren't because of what he wants, but what Hunter's shenanigans force him to do. And since we can safely assume Hunter will be out of the picture at the end of the game, he'd no longer have the desire to increase his harem, since his priority will still be his family and friends. So, why would he want to expand his harem with girls he doesn't care about?


Well in the case of What if 3, he didn't care about protecting the family, it was for himself and only himself. That is precisely why the what if exists, but if you prefer let's try something else even shorter if you prefer :

2. What if Stelring decided to follow in hunter's footsteps after the ending by taking over a college with his harem? (Harem + Netori)

 

[Thegoblinlayer]

I mean to play devil's advocate in this discussion. There was a bad ending where Sterling became a girl and what if's where they went on vacation and met a tribe of people looking like hunter, where sterling takes up Hunter's offer, and where Sterling makes a friend who fuck's his family. None of panzer's ideas seem too far beyond that. It just seems like you guys are so vehemently against his ideas that you don't even want to believe it's plausible for side content that's entire premise is things that would never happen in the main game. I get not liking someone's ideas but no need to try so hard to shut someone down instead of say it is not for you and move on.

 

[panzermaster]

I mean to play devil's advocate in this discussion. There was a bad ending where Sterling became a girl and what if's where they went on vacation and met a tribe of people looking like hunter, where sterling takes up Hunter's offer, and where Sterling makes a friend who fuck's his family. None of panzer's ideas seem too far beyond that. It just seems like you guys are so vehemently against his ideas that you don't even want to believe it's plausible for side content that's entire premise is things that would never happen in the main game. I get not liking someone's ideas but no need to try so hard to shut someone down instead of say it is not for you and move on.

Thank you.

I mean I don't think my suggestion would even make it in a poll on Patreon and it has even less chance it would be voted and accepted by WWG supporter. It was just an idea that was put there randomly.

But thanks to this discussion I was able to refine my suggestions into making it shorter versions and made them simpler. Every criticism of those is an opportunity to make them better. So ironically, it's technically helping me making more convincing suggestions.

It kinda reminds me of a japanese play where a guy in charge of censorship hates comedy and force the writer of a comedy to constantly change his script because he thinks it's not patriotic enough to the japanese emperor and he wants it to be less funny. But every time the writers rewrites the play listening to the criticism of the censor, it becomes funnier and funnier.

 

[jamiehmcw91]

Lots of theories regarding Catherine and Brenna going to college

 

[Fayn Arawn]

But thanks to this discussion I was able to refine my suggestions into making it shorter versions and made them simpler. Every criticism of those is an opportunity to make them better. So ironically, it's technically helping me making more convincing suggestions.

Unironically even, this is all I was hoping to do in the first place, kick ideas back and forth to refine them and sharpen their focus, like revising an early draft. It's a common practice and doesn't need to devolve into argument.

Let me say this, WWG has taken ideas that sounded much worse (to me) than yours and still made great What Ifs out of them, I bet he could do the same with yours.

 

[jamiehmcw91]

i am hoping for atleast 6 or 8 more what if's.
One where Drew is fucking all the girls.
2 where both Brenna and Catherine are in college and Hunter fucks and breeds the whole class.
Maybe one where it shows how Drew and Hunter started

 

[panzermaster]

See, you're making things complicated by setting two conditions. You have to KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid. These two examples you give are the sole reason for the What If, not something that also happens.

It is, because you don't have one starting point, you have two. First is Sterling losing all power and second is your specific scenario. You can only have one starting point that tells the story.

Be it as it may, but given how his character currently is established, it doesn't fit his profile.

Now we're cooking with fire! KISS! Just say "What if Sterling decides Hunter was right all along?" We don't need more than that. We know Catherine and Brenna go to college and that Ophelia goes to a gym. And there we have our breeding ground (pun intended). You can say it's the same thing as your original suggestion, but really it's not, because now it gives a believable "why" instead of "oh, he gets rich and wants to expand his harem". You made things too complicated while you need to dumb things down. The shorter the thing, the stupider the premise. If you have too many things set up, it will make things longer and for one shots, people don't want to read through half an hour of exposition to get to a ten minute sex scene.

Remember, KISS.

And who are you to make these rule that a what if? can only have one starting points and it can never have two? No it has never been a rule that was established, it's YOU who made it up and then declares that a what if? needs to follow those specific rules that you created for the game.

And in no way Stelring losing his genital (or having him impotent permanently) would make it too complicated, you can have a few pannels explaining how Sterling lost his manhood and then WWG can go on the rest of the story.

But if apparently this suggestion is pushing you to such an extreme that you need to insist that much , all right :

1. What if the american government mandates every family to participate in a social activity to fight racism and Sterling harem get taken away from him? (Interracial + NTR)

Are you ok now? Is this simple enough for you?

And nice strawmen pretending that Sterling becoming rich and wanting to expand his harem would require half an hour of exposition, right now it's like you need to pretend that my suggestion requires more work than they really do when it can be established very easily in not even a minute. Just in order to say that it makes things too "complicated", when in the end you are the only one who makes things more complex than they really are.

 

[jamiehmcw91]

And who are you to make these rule that a what if? can only have one starting points? and it can never have two. No it has never been a rule that was established, it's YOU who made it up and then declares that a what if? needs to follow those specific rules that you created for the game. And in no way this would make it too complicated, you can have a few pannels explaining how Sterling lost his manhood and then WWG can go on the rest of the story.

But if apparently this suggestion is pushing you to such an extreme that you need to insist that much , all right :

1. What if the american government mandates every family to participate in a social activity to fight racism and Sterling harem get taken away from him? (Interracial + NTR)

Are you ok now?

And nice strawmen pretending that Sterling becoming rich and wanting to expand his harem would require half an hour of exposition, right now it's like you need to pretend that my suggestion requires more work than they really do when it can be established very easily in not even a minute. Just in order to say that it makes things too "complicated", when in the end you are the only one who makes things more complex than they really are.

I am confused what this about?

 

[panzermaster]

Unironically even, this is all I was hoping to do in the first place, kick ideas back and forth to refine them and sharpen their focus, like revising an early draft. It's a common practice and doesn't need to devolve into argument.

Let me say this, WWG has taken ideas that sounded much worse (to me) than yours and still made great What Ifs out of them, I bet he could do the same with yours.

That is why he is such a great developper, taking a bad idea and making it into good content is the proof that he is talented.

And thank you for trying to make the suggestions better, even if they are not your subjective tastes. constructive criticism is always a good thing for improving medias.

 

[Wayne1324]

Is the dream scenes going to be posted on here?

 

[SuddenReal]

And thank you for trying to make the suggestions better, even if they are not your subjective tastes. constructive criticism is always a good thing for improving medias.

Don't mistake my criticism for negative criticism. I'm simply direct and blunt. I only say it's a bad idea because I think there's something in it that can improve. Otherwise I'd just say it's a stupid idea. You can fix bad, you can't fix stupid. I only suggest you simplify the whole idea so there's leeway to work with. If too many things are set in stone, they need to be established beforehand and that takes away from the actual project (and let's face it, people have a short attention span). If the whole premise is simpler, you can get faster into the action.

Also, my post was deleted for Insulting/namecalling, but if you go over my post that you were so kindly to quote in it's entirety (which wasn't deleted) there's nothing insulting towards you in it. Maybe whoever flagged my post thought that the "stupid" in the KISS was directed at you? I'll have to remember for next time to explain it as "KISS stands for Keep It Stupid, Simple".

 

[SuddenReal]

Is the dream scenes going to be posted on here?

Somewhere halfway page 2017 I believe. It's hidden in a spoiler tag.

 

[yourmomma]

Is the dream scenes going to be posted on here?

I think it's on page 1015 or around there.

 

[jamiehmcw91]

Top 10 sex scenes in the game?
Including bad endings?

 

[DarkKatarn]

Panzermaster: What if Sterling after establishing his Harem in his house and becoming rich decided to expands by infiltrating a college with his girls and keeping all the beautiful women only for himself? (Harem + Netori).

I personally like the idea of Sterling being a harem master in a college setting. But I would make it so it is in an alternate universe, where Ophelia is the principal, Mallory is the school nurse, Brenna is a fellow student, Catherine is a student, and Aliza is the librarian. And have it so the characters either are seduced into the harem, or are helping to seduce other girls into the harem.