Ren'Py Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

[Hermit76]

We don't condemn Hunter. We characterise him with the given hints.

 

[GeppettoPossum]

What i'm saying is, the characters shown in bad ends are still what a character would do if given the chance. While Brenna will never fuck a dog in canon, she is shown that if she ever does experience it, she will fall in love with it in canon. Brenna would enjoy fucking dogs, if given the chance because that feeling is inside of her character. only coming out in a bad end.

Can't say that I agree with you there. I feel like that's a risky road to go down with the bad ends. Brenna would be into getting gangbanged by dogs, Hunter would have no problem headshotting his own daughter and grandaughter, Keira would enjoy watching Drew fuck Lucia, Ophelia would like Kevin's dick (which happens to be bigger than Sterling's somehow). Basically all of the girls would enjoy getting railed by their decrepit/deformed grandfather (even against their will). And those are just the bad ends I know about.

Not sure I like the conclusions that would lead to about the girls' inner desires/characters.
Unless you have a source from WWG saying that's what he intends with the bad ends, I'm gonna choose to disagree with your assertion.

 

[Devilrebel]

Wish there was a playable Android version, i tried loading patche in and open with Joiplay but no dice. Oh well.

 

[snakeplisskin]

Wish there was a playable Android version, i tried loading patche in and open with Joiplay but no dice. Oh well.

Collections of 18 has a working port on their site.

 

[dartred]

Can't say that I agree with you there. I feel like that's a risky road to go down with the bad ends. Brenna would be into getting gangbanged by dogs, Hunter would have no problem headshotting his own daughter and grandaughter, Keira would enjoy watching Drew fuck Lucia, Ophelia would like Kevin's dick (which happens to be bigger than Sterling's somehow). Basically all of the girls would enjoy getting railed by their decrepit/deformed grandfather (even against their will). And those are just the bad ends I know about.

Not sure I like the conclusions that would lead to about the girls' inner desires/characters.
Unless you have a source from WWG saying that's what he intends with the bad ends, I'm gonna choose to disagree with your assertion.

Then with your logic, Hunter would have no problem fucking his family, but probably won't in canon? Though we never seen him do it, we KNOW that he would if given the chance. You not want to believe he wouldn't do it because it doesn't sit well with you personally is not a good reason to believe the characters wouldn't do what they are shown to do if given the chance.

As it stands, there's more evidence to show the characters would do their actions then wouldn't. Your only argument that they wouldn't is that you don't like the conclusions it would lead too. My evidence is their behaviors in bad ends. It's material evidence vs feelings in this case.

 

[GeppettoPossum]

Then with your logic, Hunter would have no problem fucking his family, but probably won't in canon? Though we never seen him do it, we KNOW that he would if given the chance. You not want to believe he wouldn't do it because it doesn't sit well with you personally is not a good reason to believe the characters wouldn't do what they are shown to do if given the chance.

As it stands, there's more evidence to show the characters would do their actions then wouldn't. Your only argument that they wouldn't is that you don't like the conclusions it would lead too. My evidence is their behaviors in bad ends. It's material evidence vs feelings in this case.

I can definitely see your side of the argument.

The trouble is- has WWG ever addressed what we're talking about here? That the characters' behaviors in the bad ends is how they would actually act if given the opportunity?

You are correct that my assertion is based more on feelings, but here's my rationale:

I want to believe that Sterling isn't the only thing separating these girls from throwing themselves at every dick that comes their way. Are we supposed to believe he's the only one preventing them from becoming cum dumpsters to whoever wants it (even dogs?)?

In the canon story, there is evidence that suggests Hunter would act a certain way if given the chance. The drugs, the webcams, his escapades with Drew, etc. However, in the canon story there isn't much evidence that the girls would act as I mentioned above (except for maybe Nora and Keira, but that's a different conversation). They all seem to be pretty satisfied with Sterling (and perhaps some occasional girl-on-girl action), and equally repulsed by Hunter & Kevin.

If WWG truly is telling us that all these women are helpless dick fiends, unable to control themselves at the sight of any penis, and Sterling is the only one preventing them from doing so, then perhaps my issue is more with WWG's writing, as that would reduce these women to stereotypical bimbos.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

I can definitely see your side of the argument.

The trouble is- has WWG ever addressed what we're talking about here? That the characters' behaviors in the bad ends is how they would actually act if given the opportunity?

You are correct that my assertion is based more on feelings, but here's my rationale:

I want to believe that Sterling isn't the only thing separating these girls from throwing themselves at every dick that comes their way. Are we supposed to believe he's the only one preventing them from becoming cum dumpsters to whoever wants it (even dogs?)?

In the canon story, there is evidence that suggests Hunter would act a certain way if given the chance. The drugs, the webcams, his escapades with Drew, etc. However, in the canon story there isn't much evidence that the girls would act as I mentioned above (except for maybe Nora and Keira, but that's a different conversation). They all seem to be pretty satisfied with Sterling (and perhaps some occasional girl-on-girl action), and equally repulsed by Hunter & Kevin.

If WWG truly is telling us that all these women are helpless dick fiends, unable to control themselves at the sight of any penis, and Sterling is the only one preventing them from doing so, then perhaps my issue is more with WWG's writing, as that would reduce these women to stereotypical bimbos.

I'm not aware of WWG addressing this directly, and I doubt he will. Sometimes leaving certain things up to the audience to interpret for themselves is much more artistic and powerful. In other words, there's no right or wrong answer. That said, I do have my own opinions...

There are several recurring themes in the story, including the importance of being in the right place at the right time, and people being slaves to their own wants and needs. These concepts are fully understood by Hunter and he tries to use that knowledge to his advantage. He explains as much to Sterling during their conversation on the very first night, and it's hinted at by the very title of the game ("Power Vacuum").

It's a cynical and unromantic perspective, but there's some truth to the idea that people will eventually fall for each other if they have no better options. So the best strategy is to position yourself to be the one to fulfill someone's needs, financially, emotionally, and sexually, until they convince themselves that they love you. But it's not like the women don't love Sterling, and if given the choice they'd obviously pick him over the alternatives, but at the end of the day they're women with needs. If Sterling is not available to fulfill those needs, they will find someone else who can, it's just human nature.

I'm not quite sure how to reconcile the above with the scenarios where the women have already fallen for Sterling, and then they fall for his rivals while he's still around...

In the Kevin ending, I think we can "blame" the first sexual encounter on the wine and the gas, but the second encounter is more difficult to "excuse": Ophelia was in right mind but was overcome with lust after seeing Kevin's buff body and remembering the pleasure of their first encounter. Afterward, I think her intentions were to continue fucking both Kevin and Sterling, and I can't help but wonder how Sterling would've reacted to this.

In the Brenna/Drew/Hunter ending, and the Brenna/dogs ending, my impression is that Brenna would likely keep fucking Sterling while also continuing these other escapades in secret, unless she got to a point where she was no longer satisfied by Sterling.

But I may be reading too deep into things. It's also perfectly likely that the "canon" women would not do the things we see in the alternative endings, and that these endings exist for "shock value" (as mentioned earlier). It's all open to interpretation, and honestly I think I prefer it remain that way, rather than having WWG explain it too much.

 

[traveladaptor69]

Thanks Dev for continuing this awesome game, glad I started supporting you early last year.

The anims are great. No zoom in - zoom out, side moving focus to simulate movement, those are crap. Just great.
The ladies are gorgeous, awesome.

So, due to borked save i had to replay ch 9 and 10 again, no probs, but helps refresh the story line.

So after Ch 10 finished, interesting questions rose up for me. Lets use the IC patch for easy ID.
So the MC's mom has confessed that her hubby preferred anal to V sex. Turns out he is Drew's bottom, so gay (not that that is a bad thing).
So, is it possible that neither of the mom's 3 children are from the father.
Also, the mom stoutly refuses V sex with the son, preferring anal. So is she a V?
Where the children adopted?

So interesting times ahead. And plse do not use spoilers.

Cheers all.

 

[GeppettoPossum]

I'm not aware of WWG addressing this directly, and I doubt he will. Sometimes leaving certain things up to the audience to interpret for themselves is much more artistic and powerful. In other words, there's no right or wrong answer. That said, I do have my own opinions...

There are several recurring themes in the story, including the importance of being in the right place at the right time, and people being slaves to their own wants and needs. These concepts are fully understood by Hunter and he tries to use that knowledge to his advantage. He explains as much to Sterling during their conversation on the very first night, and it's hinted at by the very title of the game ("Power Vacuum").

It's a cynical and unromantic perspective, but there's some truth to the idea that people will eventually fall for each other if they have no better options. So the best strategy is to position yourself to be the one to fulfill someone's needs, financially, emotionally, and sexually, until they convince themselves that they love you. But it's not like the women don't love Sterling, and if given the choice they'd obviously pick him over the alternatives, but at the end of the day they're women with needs. If Sterling is not available to fulfill those needs, they will find someone else who can, it's just human nature.

I'm not quite sure how to reconcile the above with the scenarios where the women have already fallen for Sterling, and then they fall for his rivals while he's still around...

In the Kevin ending, I think we can "blame" the first sexual encounter on the wine and the gas, but the second encounter is more difficult to "excuse": Ophelia was in right mind but was overcome with lust after seeing Kevin's buff body and remembering the pleasure of their first encounter. Afterward, I think her intentions were to continue fucking both Kevin and Sterling, and I can't help but wonder how Sterling would've reacted to this.

In the Brenna/Drew/Hunter ending, and the Brenna/dogs ending, my impression is that Brenna would likely keep fucking Sterling while also continuing these other escapades in secret, unless she got to a point where she was no longer satisfied by Sterling.

But I may be reading too deep into things. It's also perfectly likely that the "canon" women would not do the things we see in the alternative endings, and that these endings exist for "shock value" (as mentioned earlier). It's all open to interpretation, and honestly I think I prefer it remain that way, rather than having WWG explain it too much.

Fair points. I still say that this view of things paints the girls as untrustworthy whores. If all it takes is Sterling missing one opportunity for them to drop him and fuck the next guy in line, then how could they ever be trusted to remain loyal?

Believing that character actions in non-canon ends are accurate representations of what the canon characters would do is essentially saying this:
At over a dozen points since Sterling started sexual relationships with all the women, they would have cheated on him with the first guy they came across had he not intervened.

Personally I think the most coherent view is that, while yes we may be able to glean some scant info (particularly regarding Hunter and past events), for the most part the "bad ends" are for shock value and don't necessarily represent the girls' personalities/desires. After all, they DO NOT happen. Why would they need to represent reality? If anything their personalities/desires are probably more skewed to appeal to the NTR lovers in those endings. "Not only is your girl cheating on you with another man, she LOVES it." That sort of thing. (FWIW, I know that some of that "loving it" came from the changes WWG had to make to please the Patreon overlords).

 

[Fayn Arawn]

Thanks Dev for continuing this awesome game, glad I started supporting you early last year.

The anims are great. No zoom in - zoom out, side moving focus to simulate movement, those are crap. Just great.
The ladies are gorgeous, awesome.

So, due to borked save i had to replay ch 9 and 10 again, no probs, but helps refresh the story line.

So after Ch 10 finished, interesting questions rose up for me. Lets use the IC patch for easy ID.
So the MC's mom has confessed that her hubby preferred anal to V sex. Turns out he is Drew's bottom, so gay (not that that is a bad thing).
So, is it possible that neither of the mom's 3 children are from the father.
Also, the mom stoutly refuses V sex with the son, preferring anal. So is she a V?
Where the children adopted?

So interesting times ahead. And plse do not use spoilers.

Cheers all.

I'm pretty sure David was the biological father of all 3 of Ophelia's children. There are even comments from multiple characters about Sterling's resemblance to David. And at no point in the game was it ever suggested that Ophelia was unfaithful to David in the time they were together.

It now seems likely that David was gay/bi/whatever, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have fathered Ophelia's children.

 

[OhGodNotAgain]

Fair points. I still say that this view of things paints the girls as untrustworthy whores. If all it takes is Sterling missing one opportunity for them to drop him and fuck the next guy in line, then how could they ever be trusted to remain loyal?

Believing that character actions in non-canon ends are accurate representations of what the canon characters would do is essentially saying this:
At over a dozen points since Sterling started sexual relationships with all the women, they would have cheated on him with the first guy they came across had he not intervened.

Personally I think the most coherent view is that, while yes we may be able to glean some scant info (particularly regarding Hunter and past events), for the most part the "bad ends" are for shock value and don't necessarily represent the girls' personalities/desires. After all, they DO NOT happen. Why would they need to represent reality? If anything their personalities/desires are probably more skewed to appeal to the NTR lovers in those endings. "Not only is your girl cheating on you with another man, she LOVES it." That sort of thing. (FWIW, I know that some of that "loving it" came from the changes WWG had to make to please the Patreon overlords).

Because that's what the people who love ntr desperately want to believe. They abhor the idea of them being loyal and devoted to Sterling.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

Because that's what the people who love ntr desperately want to believe. They abhor the idea of them being loyal and devoted to Sterling.

Even if that's true, so what? Whether someone wants to believe the girls are mindless sluts or totally loyal, this game can be interpreted either way. Choose the option you prefer and don't worry about someone else's opinion or preference.

 

[dartred]

Because that's what the people who love ntr desperately want to believe. They abhor the idea of them being loyal and devoted to Sterling.

I love NTR and I love Vanilla. i've been say that since the day this thread opened. It has nothing to do with my beliefs and everything to do with what i'm observing. Why is it so hard to believe that how they act in a bad end is their real characters too?

I love the idea of them being loyal and devoted to Sterling. I love me a good love story and vanilla game just as much as an NTR game (so long as it has incest =p).

 

[Dudeorama]

This game is great! New player notes who hasn't seen much of the NTR stuff. It just doesn't interest me:

• The humor is great. It's usually funny and when it's not there's so many jokes that the few that don't land happen then get drowned out by 5 more.
• The animation isn't really the best(not even close) but it does enough to remain hot and that's enough.

In terms of story because there's so much the last chapter is the only one to really stand out right now. In that vein:

• I didn't like how Eileen was done. It felt rushed. It also ruined the "big dumb bimbo" archetype that the game doesn't really have now. Another Catherine was fun honestly.
• Also Brenna went too far with the receptionist. She got no real pushback for that psycho behavior. Not to say psycho behavior would be a bad thing but you gotta build up to that. Instead it just feels cruel.
• Natsuko is FUCKING HOT!!!! Seriously it's like the rest of her family is in 720p(still good but can be improved) while she's modeled in 8k. It's fucking ridiculous. More her please!!
• I really like Chapter 12 taking most of the women and giving them stuff outside of Sterling. He's still the dude but Catherine's friend group feels like friends(and is why I liked Eileen), Mallory and Aliza hitting it off, Lucia really interacting with the rest of the family. It's great.
• The gas things feel kinda weak as a plot device but honestly what else could you do?

Looking forward to more!!

 

[Mr. Chatty]

What i'm saying is, the characters shown in bad ends are still what a character would do if given the chance. While Brenna will never fuck a dog in canon, she is shown that if she ever does experience it, she will fall in love with it in canon. Brenna would enjoy fucking dogs, if given the chance because that feeling is inside of her character. only coming out in a bad end.

Can't agree less.

 

[GeppettoPossum]

It has nothing to do with my beliefs and everything to do with what i'm observing. Why is it so hard to believe that how they act in a bad end is their real characters too?

Feels like I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but it's because what you are observing happens in a non-canonical bad end. An ending that literally doesn't happen.

Even if that's true, so what? Whether someone wants to believe the girls are mindless sluts or totally loyal, this game can be interpreted either way. Choose the option you prefer and don't worry about someone else's opinion or preference.

I suppose that's a good end to the discussion right there. WWG would be between a rock and a hard place if he did decide to clarify the question.
Girls are loyal and devoted = NTR-lovers mad.
Girls are mindless, disloyal sluts = NTR-haters mad.

Given that both sides are prone to being quite rabid, I don't blame him for leaving it up to interpretation.

I'll close by saying I think it's hasty to make definitive statements in either direction. Personally, I stand by what I said about the bad-ends being more for shock-value (thus pleasing the NTR fans), and that we should be careful to not judge a character by what they do in a non-canonical ending. There may be a sliver of truth in them, but I doubt they are fully representative of the canon characters.

 

[Hermit76]

Somehow I am slightly disappointed, that Lucia and the MC don't have the same father. She being his cousin-sister would be even hotter.
Her mother had sex with her grandmother and her grandmother had sex with her uncle (all from Lucia's perspective), so it had not been far fetched, if her mother also had sex with her uncle.
But only slightly disappointed...

 

[dartred]

Well, Non-Canon-Hunter did those things. Canon-Hunter may want to do those things, but we don't know if he would.

Feels like I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but it's because what you are observing happens in a non-canonical bad end. An ending that literally doesn't happen.

Girls are loyal and devoted = NTR-lovers mad.
Girls are mindless, disloyal sluts = NTR-haters mad.

But I love when girls are loyal and I love when they get taken. So that last statement is untrue.

Anyways, I asked for an official position about the matter and the only straight answer I got was this


As for everything else, he will leave it up to interpretation. So characters WOULD and at the same time, WOULDN'T do all the things in bad ends. WWG is just going to leave it to the readers to believe what they want to believe.

He does have an official side to it, but he won't tell us.

 

[Nosferatu00]

Damn, that chapter 12 bad ending was REALLY bad. I was expecting some normal NTR, not... that. But I guess after the MC being turned into a women, he was out of options for bad endings.

 

[dartred]

Yeah, i wonder how crazy CH13 is going to be for bad ends. Considering Hunter is not a cornered rat too.