Ren'Py Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

4.10 star(s) 387 Votes
Discussion Reviews (387)
dartred

dartred

Forum Fanatic
Game Developer
Aug 30, 2017
4,447
8,428
The Analist said:
OK... But, unless there are two separate entities (that is, a first chapter/part/game that is kinetic and a follow up that is a sandbox game), it shouldn't have the kinetic tag. Kinetic novels are the ones who don't have any choice/branch and so on. They run like a comic/film (or a mix between both; it all depends on how animated they are or not). I know there are many "games" disguised as sandboxes thay you end up feeling it was a (fully or almost) kinetic novel, but that's not the way tags are usually applied here and tags should be applied consistently.
Click to expand...
The what ifs are all Kinetic one shots and this site doesn't really give side stories it's own page. I'm assuming the kinetic novel might be for those. Since those don't have the sandbox part.
 
Johnny Dough

Johnny Dough

Member
Jun 19, 2024
128
164
Zardoz23 said:
I get what you're saying. But unless we want to argue for a new tag (possibly "kinetic-lite"?) this game is more kinetic than sandbox. If you boil it down to its core there is no player agency in this game (minus the NTR "bad endings" that get retconned anyway). That, to me, makes it a kinetic novel. Yeah you can sort of determine the order of the minor scenes but all major plot points are static and unchangeable.
Click to expand...
dartred said:
The what ifs are all Kinetic one shots and this site doesn't really give side stories it's own page. I'm assuming the kinetic novel might be for those. Since those don't have the sandbox part.
Click to expand...
I made a comment on the new tag discussion but, for now, the definition of the "kinetic" tag is "when a a visual novel style game presents the player with no choices." Thus, if there is any choice (and I can't conceive a game having multiple endings without having any choices), it's not kinetic. I'm ok with both tags if, as I said before, there are two entities (I could say two "games", but a kinetic novel is not a game; therefore, I'm using "entities") like a 1.0 that's kinetic and, them, the dev decides to do a follow up that is sandbox (or even a multiple-choice visual novel; it could also be the opposite, but it's rarely the case). Even though, for the sake of the developer, I thing there should be two entries (that is, two threads), because, for example, I usually filter out kinetic novels... So, if the dev applies both in a game, he might limit his audience (or, if the tags are applied by moderators, they'll be limiting it for him).

As I said, I know there are many games that are ambiguous, but it would be unfeasible to use this rule consistently: it would be necessary "judges" for it case. So, it's better to use the "kinetic" only for the strictest sense kinetic novels (and this is even the rule posted in the link above).

Moreover, most games have kinetic parts (cut scenes, interludes, prologues, epilogues, etc.); if we start to add "kinetic" to every game that has something like that, the tag will become redundant, and strict sense kinetic novels will be undetected (for both lovers and haters).
 
Zardoz23

Zardoz23

Member
Jan 28, 2021
270
905
The Analist said:
I made a comment on the new tag discussion but, for now, the definition of the "kinetic" tag is "when a a visual novel style game presents the player with no choices." Thus, if there is any choice (and I can't conceive a game having multiple endings without having any choices), it's not kinetic.
Click to expand...
Ehhh. The thing is this game's "choices" are actually non-choices. Yes, they exist but they don't do anything in terms of effecting the story. The NTR "bad endings" aren't actually endings at all. They're basically the equivalent of short paths that end in "Game Over" screens that allow you to go back and make the correct choice instead.

I know I'm not the only one that sees the "choose the order you play through story parts but are ultimately forced to play through all of them" isn't actually a choice. It's the illusion of choice. You could alter the game and make it 100% kinetic and the end result would be the same between the two versions. All plot points, all lewd scenes revealed, etc... it would be the same game.

So despite the game having "choices" I think it is more kinetic than it is sandbox.

The Analist said:
As I said, I know there are many games that are ambiguous, but it would be unfeasible to use this rule consistently: it would be necessary "judges" for it case. So, it's better to use the "kinetic" only for the strictest sense kinetic novels (and this is even the rule posted in the link above).

Moreover, most games have kinetic parts (cut scenes, interludes, prologues, epilogues, etc.); if we start to add "kinetic" to every game that has something like that, the tag will become redundant, and strict sense kinetic novels will be undetected (for both lovers and haters).
Click to expand...
No arguments here but it won't change the fact that writing a non-kinetic novel with actual game-changing choices available to the player is hard. It's easier for porn devs to hide the kinetic nature of their novel by injecting the illusion of choice. And they do this because there are a lot of gamers that don't view kinetic visual novels as games at all and (like you) filter them from their feeds. To that end I would say if you have a hard line against kinetic novels then you should avoid this one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Semak34, commonkira and Fayn Arawn
Johnny Dough

Johnny Dough

Member
Jun 19, 2024
128
164
Zardoz23 said:
Ehhh. The thing is this game's "choices" are actually non-choices. Yes, they exist but they don't do anything in terms of effecting the story. The NTR "bad endings" aren't actually endings at all. They're basically the equivalent of short paths that end in "Game Over" screens that allow you to go back and make the correct choice instead.

I know I'm not the only one that sees the "choose the order you play through story parts but are ultimately forced to play through all of them" isn't actually a choice. It's the illusion of choice. You could alter the game and make it 100% kinetic and the end result would be the same between the two versions. All plot points, all lewd scenes revealed, etc... it would be the same game.

So despite the game having "choices" I think it is more kinetic than it is sandbox.


No arguments here but it won't change the fact that writing a non-kinetic novel with actual game-changing choices available to the player is hard. It's easier for porn devs to hide the kinetic nature of their novel by injecting the illusion of choice. And they do this because there are a lot of gamers that don't view kinetic visual novels as games at all and (like you) filter them from their feeds. To that end I would say if you have a hard line against kinetic novels then you should avoid this one.
Click to expand...
Oh. I totally agree with you. I once saw a guy call "skipnetic" those "VNs" that are almost kinetic and the only options are "do you wanna see that scene?" "Do you wanna fuck that girl?" "Do you wanna a blowjob?" I totally second that. And there are also those pseudo-sandboxes that are, in fact, kinetic stories (sometimes, not even that/ just a bunch of scenes) hidden behind complex interfaces. My objection is most for practical reasons. If we were to scrutinize every VNs here (in the broadest sense, that is, every "game") to check if they're substantially kinetic or not, we'll need something like a "commitee" to check that, and that's not gonna happen... So, if they're overtly and/or declared as kinetic, tag them as "kinetic", if not, let the players decide and rate them according to their expectations, if they were met or not.
 
M

Maverick369

Well-Known Member
Nov 22, 2021
1,078
474
What got page put into review. I wonder I f subscribestar will start getting boosts of more developers this way
 
HornyyPussy

HornyyPussy

Board Buff
Apr 26, 2020
16,273
38,128
Maverick369 said:
What got page put into review. I wonder I f subscribestar will start getting boosts of more developers this way
Click to expand...
Problem is that SS have more or less the same rules as Patreon, they are just small enough to go under VISA/Mastercard's radar apparently. If they get a big upswing in subscibers they will most likely go the same way as Patreon...
 
  • Like
Reactions: vireker and Snugglepuff
Y

youbet567

Member
Jun 21, 2023
421
1,247
HornyyPussy said:
yes they do, I've paid there with my card.
Click to expand...
Doesnt matter what you pay with its the outgoing transfers that is affected.
you know that Wincest is legal in half of the world right? (Brazil. Russia Germany and a bunch of others)
You must be registered to see the links

If something is LEGAL you are allowed to post it on SS thats it.
 
HornyyPussy

HornyyPussy

Board Buff
Apr 26, 2020
16,273
38,128
youbet567 said:
Doesnt matter what you pay with its the outgoing transfers that is affected.
you know that Wincest is legal in half of the world right? (Brazil. Russia Germany and a bunch of others)
You must be registered to see the links

If something is LEGAL you are allowed to post it on SS thats it.
Click to expand...
Problem is that it means it's illegal in some countries which is the ONLY thing that VISA/Mastercard cares about and when SS gets bigger they will take the same action as they've done with Patreon, no way around it.

So yes, it matters VERY much what you can pay with. Only way around it in the long run would be crypto but thatäs too insecure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EvilLadyKitten
Y

youbet567

Member
Jun 21, 2023
421
1,247
HornyyPussy said:
Problem is that it means it's illegal in some countries which is the ONLY thing that VISA/Mastercard cares about and when SS gets bigger they will take the same action as they've done with Patreon, no way around it.
Click to expand...
wrong Boy
its the outgoing transfers that is affected.
you can pay for what fucking content you want with your mastercard.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
4.10 star(s) 387 Votes