Ren'Py Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

[Spatenklopper]

It's relatively simple. if you've been on patreon long enough, you'll eventually pique their interest.
However, the problem could be seen coming for quite some time....
Suddenly being completely unprepared for this "problem" is pretty embarrassing for the dev.

Could make a branch out of it...

"What if..." I had been paying attention to what was happening to other devs on patreon for more than a year...

Sorry but with the consequences of stupidity and ignorance my sympathy is limited.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

Sorry but with the consequences of stupidity and ignorance my sympathy is limited.

If you think the dev wasn't fully aware he was violating some of Patreon's rules, you might be the ignorant one. The dev has a story he wants to tell, and there's an audience for that story. He was just trying to fly under the radar, which isn't too hard. Could Patreon have discovered the offending material on their own? Sure, but it's a drop in the ocean so they understandably rely on reports.

Imagine going into a speakeasy and ordering water, and then judging everyone else when the place gets raided. Or worse yet, being the one who called the cops. Why do you think we're here? Why are you here?

It's getting rather tiresome reading all of this moral grandstanding on a pirated porn site.

 

[Spatenklopper]

He was just trying to fly under the radar, which isn't too hard. Could Patreon have discovered the offending material on their own? Sure, but it's a drop in the ocean so they understandably rely on reports.

If you actually believe that, you are unfortunately quite naive.
It's pretty easy for Patreon to find content like this, and no one is even sitting at any computer looking for it.

And if the DEV was sooo aware of this as you say, how come that an update has to be postponed because of something he known for a long time?
How come he didn't make any preparations?
How come he still hasn't switched to a platform that doesn't care about credit card company restrictions like hundreds of other devs?

Sorry but all the Patreon shit is nothing but a stupid excuse for his own months of omissions, which are now falling on his toes.

Why are you here?

To play games.
To learn new games.
To meet devs who I think deserve my support.

But definitely not to smear honey around someone's ass they don't deserve.

It's getting rather tiresome reading all of this moral grandstanding on a pirated porn site.

I'm tired of reading apologies and justifications for mistakes and omissions that one runs straight into with wide open eyes and which have long been known.

 

[dartred]

If you actually believe that, you are unfortunately quite naive.
It's pretty easy for Patreon to find content like this, and no one is even sitting at any computer looking for it.

there are over 210k creators on patreon. There is no way they are being thorough and can search every creator. While also handling customer support, dev support and anything else that takes time away from finding content that violates their ToS. If we had to be realistic, it's more likely that they CAN'T find everything. So they rely on reports. That way they just take a look at what is being reported, rather then blind checks

edit: just checked and Patreon has 400 workers, that is overall. How many are in the department that handles ToS rule breakers? I'm guessing a handful. There is no fucking way that those few workers can "easily find content like that".

And if the DEV was sooo aware of this as you say, how come that an update has to be postponed because of something he known for a long time?
How come he didn't make any preparations?
How come he still hasn't switched to a platform that doesn't care about credit card company restrictions like hundreds of other devs?

He did take measures to prevent this. That's why incest has to be patched in and isn't part of the base game. It's also why he removed what ifs 1-4, because he thought that was what the offending content was about.
He said he hasn't switched because he could lose half or more of his income going from patreon to SS. When his next game is going to be vanilla, he would rather tough it out and stick with patreon where his followers are already.

To play games.
To learn new games.
To meet devs who I think deserve my support.

But definitely not to smear honey around someone's ass they don't deserve.

mhm mhm *checks profile* ...and you're not supporting any devs yet why? There isn't a single dev or game here you like? You really haven't found some one to support yet?

I'm tired of reading apologies and justifications for mistakes and omissions that one runs straight into with wide open eyes and which have long been known.

And i'm tired of correcting people who spread misinformation and don't know what they are talking about, yet here we are.

I posted with facts and proof. I'd like to see your response on how I'm wrong and don't use assumptions, use facts please.

 

[Spatenklopper]

There is no way they are being thorough and can search every creator. While also handling customer support, dev support and anything else that takes time away from finding content that violates their ToS.

Do you actually want to hear a lecture about artificial intelligence algorithms now?

mhm mhm *checks profile* ...and you're not supporting any devs yet why?

Mhm mhm, I found several, guess you need to take a closer look.

I posted with facts and proof

So your facts and evidence are that you believe patreon doesn't have the staff to personally vet all 210k devs.
You're right about that, but forget that a first "pre-sorting" only requires a bot and nothing more.
also that parts of the content were removed and then nothing was heard from patreon for 4 months.

Of course you can do it that way and think everything would be fine if you didn't hear anything for a while, but the real world doesn't work like that.
But explaining that to you would end up in another lecture on business law and laws, which i don't think any of us want to do.

It's just my opinion, you don't have to share it, you don't have to understand it, but i won't change it.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

And if the DEV was sooo aware of this as you say, how come that an update has to be postponed because of something he known for a long time?
How come he didn't make any preparations?

You know what? You're right about some things.

Even though Patreon originally cited the What Ifs for violations, and the dev tried to placate Patreon by removing the offending What Ifs back in January, and only then did Patreon start to review the game itself, and it took them 4 months to get back to him with their issues with the main game, some of which suggest their reviewer lacked basic reading comprehension... yes, the dev could have been more proactive and combed through the game starting back in January. (This timeline of events is clear from the dev's Discord.)

Edit: I'll say that I find the idea Patreon is using AI to screen game content pretty implausible. This game has been going for over 2 years, surely it wouldn't take that long for AI to flag dialogue from the opening chapters?

This Monday-morning quarterbacking is probably moot, because overhauling the existing game instead of working on a new chapter would still have been a delay. In attempt to avoid a delay, and after extended radio silence from Patreon, the dev took a risk and it didn't work out. I probably would've made the same decision: no delay now vs maybe delay later. Oh well, Murphy's Law I suppose.

 

[dartred]

So you started off with an assumption. An assumption that they have a bot made to find these things. If that were true, there would be NO game that gets past them. Yet, there are many games that still have incest AND bestiality in the game without needing to be modded. So how does that work? It doesn't, because it's humans that are combing through the content, not bots.

Your profile doesn't show you're supporting anyone, unless you have it set to not broadcast. Why not turn it on and show us how many you are supporting?

If you got an explanation but don't want to share it because you think i won't sit here and listen, think again. I'm all ears, so post it.

 

[What? Why? Games]

You know what? You're right about some things.

Even though Patreon originally cited the What Ifs for violations, and the dev tried to placate Patreon by removing the offending What Ifs back in January, and only then did Patreon start to review the game itself, and it took them 4 months to get back to him with their issues with the main game, some of which suggest their reviewer lacked basic reading comprehension... yes, the dev could have been more proactive and combed through the game starting back in January. (This timeline of events is clear from the dev's Discord.)

No, I couldn't have. Patreon broadened their guidelines to include implications of offending content. If I did it in January, I'd still be doing this now.

 

[dartred]

^To add to that, even things that have the word family, even if it helps to DISPROVE incest, is a violation in their world view.

From Patreon themselves. "You are like family to me", is against their rules. It only helps to prove you can't be family, if you have to be TOLD you're like family. Yet, they said it's incest and against the rules. That's why it's so hard to appease them, their definitions aren't the same as the general publics.

 

[Maestro91]

That's why it's so hard to appease them, their definitions aren't the same as the general publics.

Sounds like the userbase from a certain site I know of

 

[BeingADikDik]

If we're all so frustrated with Patreon's rules, why don't we create our own Patreon? With blackjack? And hookers?

 

[Spatenklopper]

So how does that work? It doesn't, because it's humans that are combing through the content, not bots.

I wrote that you are right about the lack of staff, I also wrote that bots make a pre-selection.
ok the mistake on my side was probably that i didn't write that this pre-selection will then be checked by real people.
By the way, that explains both the 4 months that the dev hasn't heard from patreon and the fact that a number of devs haven't heard from patreon yet.

Your profile doesn't show you're supporting anyone, unless you have it set to not broadcast. Why not turn it on and show us how many you are supporting?

Probably because I'm too stupid to put that in my profile, but they are in my signature.

 

[Spatenklopper]

That's why it's so hard to appease them, their definitions aren't the same as the general publics.

The problem is that Patreon lets payment service providers or credit card companies dictate "their own rules".
The perversity of this is that it doesn't matter at all on other platforms and the same companies handle the payments.

 

[KovskyAnker]

No. Patreon raised some issues so the dev have to remake some parts of the dialogue.

Was it Sterling with his Mother?

 

[KovskyAnker]

The problem is that Patreon lets payment service providers or credit card companies dictate "their own rules".

Without payment processors patreon is dead. So they have to

 

[PRINCE2126]

So let me get this straight the what ifs are dreams or fantasy's that never happen ?

 

[Fayn Arawn]

So let me get this straight the what ifs are dreams or fantasy's that never happen ?

I can't tell if you're asking sarcastically or honestly, but yes, they "never happen" in the sense that they're outside the "real story." Even calling them "What Ifs" is most likely a reference to Marvel Comics' classic What If stories, which also "never happened."

 

[PRINCE2126]

I can't tell if you're asking sarcastically or honestly, but yes, they "never happen" in the sense that they're outside the "real story." Even calling them "What Ifs" is most likely a reference to Marvel Comics' classic What If stories, which also "never happened."

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No I wasn't being sarcastic. This game was recommended to me and the user didnt till me there was NTR and yes I read the dev notes and such I just wanted to make sure before I play. Some games have Optional but reality is they arnt optional but just skippable meaning it happens but you skip the scene or they make it Optional for some parts and unavoidable in other parts which has made me paranoid with the optional NTR games so I have to ask to be reassured. Anyways thank you for the response have a good day

 

[SuddenReal]

Some games have Optional but reality is they arnt optional but just skippable meaning it happens but you skip the scene or they make it Optional for some parts and unavoidable in other parts which has made me paranoid with the optional NTR games so I have to ask to be reassured.

The What Ifs aren't part of the main game. If you play the main game (and you don't have NTR switched off), you'll be presented by a choice at some point. If you make the right choice, the story continues, but if you pick the wrong choice, there's an NTR scene and you'll be brought back to the choice, so you can continue the story. With NTR switched off, you don't even get a choice, the story just continues. So, basically, there's no NTR in the storyline (just in the wrong choices that brings a temporary "game over").

 

[PRINCE2126]

The What Ifs aren't part of the main game. If you play the main game (and you don't have NTR switched off), you'll be presented by a choice at some point. If you make the right choice, the story continues, but if you pick the wrong choice, there's an NTR scene and you'll be brought back to the choice, so you can continue the story. With NTR switched off, you don't even get a choice, the story just continues. So, basically, there's no NTR in the storyline (just in the wrong choices that brings a temporary "game over").

Ok thats reasonable. Some games ive played before added the switch mechanism and had the choice options as well then after some time the only way to avoid NTR was by turning on the Switch which just skipped the Scene or manipulated the same scene to display the MC I consider that being a bad developer and its also the reason why so many people are paranoid with some games but I can get behind this game if it is as you guys have described to me. thank you