Ren'Py Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

[Vectoro]

I'm not sure I understand why everyone loses their mind, you don't want to watch someone else getting the girls then don't play those parts (like me) it seems pretty simple. And let's all remember at the end of the day it's just a game (a very good game but still just a game), civil discourse is all well & good & should be encouraged but it's nothing to work ourselves into a frenzy that stresses out the dev & each other.

 

[ScareKing]

Lucia is an exception to the rule, and that exactly proves my point while fixing my statement.
as of ch.10 no LI except Lucia has the capacity to outright reject Hunter pursuit or to suspect that something is completely off in the house since Hunter moved in.

if sterling wasnt aware of the schemes than nobody would (even Lucia) and everyone will get mad of pleasure without having any second thoughts just shut their brains off and run with it when it comes to the antagonist.

I understand it fits the bad ends and the What If. but I refuse to believe that you dont see how it makes your perfectly built characters' personalities fall flat in the end.
I would love to know what I missed, and discuss examples from the narrative that contradicts my points but both of us dont have any time for that.

Do you complain like that in fiction movies? Its a fiction game and sounds like you are mad because there's a couple of stuff that make no sense, its kinda like you complain about Super Man flying in movies, either you believe what they say and try to enjoy or just drop it and move on.

 

[Only1P]

Lucia can't be the exception that proves the rule when she's 25% of your sample size. You can't say a coin always lands heads but when it lands tails it's the exception that proves the rule.

And all of the characters have been suspicious that something is completely off in the house since Hunter has moved in. Ophelia, Brenna, and Catherine have all questioned their reality. Some big examples:

-Ophelia's theories on what is controlling everyone's behavior, even going as far as positing that the house may be haunted.
-Brenna thought she was losing her mind after she thought she knocked Sterling's tooth out and still doesn't trust him completely.
-Catherine almost had a mental breakdown when she thought she knocked Sterling's eye out.

Ok ill try to clarify my main point, is that you have to compromise a big part of the personality of the characters for the bad ends to work, examples:

- A big part of Brenna's personality is that shes very alert and concerned of Sterling trying to take advantage of her or her family. Where does it all disappear in the interactions with Hunter? when she even slightly suspects that Sterling may be tryin to take advantage of her she gets furious, where is that anger in the interaction with Hunter? she just becomes a confused little girl while the fury and boldness is such a big part of her personality.

- Catherine is always blabbering about the uninhibited uncontested true love for her big brother, but when he gets into a temporary coma because she pushed the substance drink into his mouth she doesnt care one bit, theres no one line that implies that Catherine is concerned about what happened to her beloved big brother

- Ophelia gets batshit insane whenever she feels that the situation gets out of control, especially with sterling, but theres no glimpse of that when shes completely out of control when Hunter pushes himself onto her.

Am i incorrect to point out that theres a compromise in the personality of the main LIs in order to provide the bad ends which makes them come out as completely hypocritical?

 

[acewinz]

No, I didn't. Just because Hunter did something he did before, you made the mental gymnastics that all the NTR that's PREVENTABLE actually does happen but in another timeline! It doesn't matter that you fucked the girl! In three other timelines, she fucked three other guys! (in one of them at the same time!) That's just plain dumb, dude.

It's been said several times by WWG that they're done in spare time when he's not developing PV. I don't know what else to say.

Yeah, you did miss the point. I started by expressing my view on how the NTR has changed in the game (this is not intended as an attack on anyone or even the game). It isn't about whether the NTR happens or not, or even that it is preventable. It is that it is done in such a way the characters, who are in character in all timelines, eventually react above and beyond the initial push that eventually makes them nothing but corrupt NTR holes. No further drugs, blackmail, or conditioning required, and this, by my mental gymnastics, degrades their characters no matter if it is main game or otherwise.

To put it in perspective... Say you have a girlfriend/wife/LI and that you somehow acquired the ability to jump across an assumed muti-verse or even just time in general and wound up in a timeline that you knew was exactly the same as your own, except that in this one, your LI was targeted by a creepy old family member, was drugged once, and ended up being taken advantage of by him in that state. This is terrible, but in itself not damaging to her actual character, who is the same in both timelines aside from this particular happening where she was a victim (optionally).

This is sort of how the game started and dealt with NTR, a random bad end with no real impact/reflection on the primary timeline and was optional. I thought then it was pretty innovative as far as the genre goes, even with a zombie antagonist. I am not so uptight about NTR I couldn't watch them and enjoy the humor. But as should have been expected it didn't stop there. Now not only are the LI's taken advantage of, but they come to enjoy it for the typical reasons, and prefer to be treated that way than otherwise, and in ways that would belittle the MC. It reduces their characters to the base level of virtually all NTR, no matter if it is optional or not, which is the primary thing that alienates the vanilla crowd from the NTR and mixes like oil and water.

Now you can scream that this is all optional, which yes it is, so we have the option to close our eyes, but it is a far cry from the "Wily Coyote" random comedy bad ends that were the initial level of NTR. Then combine that with the constant What-if bombardment of same, but longer and more elaborate, and longer time frames between regular releases that somehow are not supposed to be impacted by this... and it makes it difficult to market to the vanilla crowd, who feel like they were subsidizing content they didn't want to begin with. So excuse me if I point out that it seems to me that this has become more of an NTR game, with a sizeable and appreciated vanilla path, but one that is suffering in several ways from what seemed to be a change in direction that came for valid reasons (money/patreons). But it isn't the same game to me that we started out with, which is what my points were all making, along with saying it shouldn't still be marketed as such imho.

 

[What? Why? Games]

Ok ill try to clarify my main point, is that you have to compromise a big part of the personality of the characters for the bad ends to work, examples:

- A big part of Brennas personality is that shes very alert and concerned of Sterling trying to take advantage of her or her family. Where does it all disappear in the interactions with Hunter? when she even slightly suspects that Sterling may be tryin to take advantage of her she gets furious, where is that anger in the interaction with Hunter? she just becomes a confused little girl while the fury and boldness is such a big part of her personality.

- Catherine is always blabbering about the uninhibited uncontested true love for her big brother, but when he gets into a temporary coma because she pushed the substance drink into his mouth she doesnt care one bit, theres no one line that implies that Catherine is concerned about what happened to her beloved big brother

- Ophelia gets batshit insane whenever she feels that the situation gets out of control, especially with sterling, but theres no glimpse of that when shes completely out of control when Hunter pushes himself onto her.

Am i incorrect to point out that theres a compromise in the personality of the main LIs in order to provide the bad ends which makes them come out as completely hypocritical?

Did you miss the part where Hunter uses reality warping drugs? The characters aren't behaving like themselves because they aren't.

 

[Rabbit6605]

I'm not sure I understand why everyone loses their mind, you don't want to watch someone else getting the girls then don't play those parts (like me) it seems pretty simple. And let's all remember at the end of the day it's just a game (a very good game but still just a game), civil discourse is all well & good & should be encouraged but it's nothing to work ourselves into a frenzy that stresses out the dev & each other.

THANK YOU.....

 

[What? Why? Games]

Now not only are the LI's taken advantage of, but they come to enjoy it for the typical reasons, and prefer to be treated that way than otherwise, and in ways that would belittle the MC. It reduces their characters to the base level of virtually all NTR, no matter if it is optional or not, which is the primary thing that alienates the vanilla crowd from the NTR and mixes like oil and water.

This is due to limited time and succinct storytelling. I shouldn't have to explain all of the things Hunter is doing in the background every single time. Expect that in a bad ending that Hunter is doing a mixture of drugging/libido enhancement/blackmail/mind games(and let's not forget the fact that Hunter is supposed to be a god of sex). Even with Sean's storyline, I expect the audience to be aware that the women are under the effects of Hunter's drugs in their food and drink when he leaves for a week.

And every part of the game has been expanded. NTR scenes are bigger because all of the scenes are. NTR still only makes up 10% of an update. You can say "NTR used to be a comedic footnote" but Hunter's chapter 2 scene with Eva was the biggest sex scene in the game for a long time. People complained about it then saying "Why does Hunter get all of the good scenes?". Saying it isn't the same game because NTR has been expanded with everything else feels disingenuous.

 

[Only1P]

Did you miss the part where Hunter uses reality warping drugs? The characters aren't behaving like themselves because they aren't.

Again if we are talking about chapters 1-7 I completely agree the inconsistency starts in the latest chapters.

In ch 9 the only substance thats present in the bad end with Cath and Amber is the substance from the vents.
but these are the same vents in the main route, but still the slow and rocky penetration with Amber implies that shes 100% sober and alert to whats happening thats certainly doesnt feel like someone whos experiencing reality warping drugs.

In ch 10 Ophelia and Aliza drink from the same bottle of wine in the bad end and in the main route.
but still Ophelia seems to be completely in control of the situation and aware and have complete agency about what shes doing in the main route with Sterling.

So based on that i conclude that the girls are on the same doses of drugs when with Sterling but still acting more like their natural selves

 

[What? Why? Games]

Again if we are talking about chapters 1-7 I completely agree the problem starts on the latest chapters.

In ch 9 the only substance thats present in the bad end with Cath and Amber is the substance from the vents.
but these are the same vents in the main route, but still the slow and rocky penetration with Amber implies that shes 100% sober and alert to whats happening thats certainly doesnt feel like someone whos experiencing reality warping drugs.

In ch 10 Ophelia and Alize drink from the same bottle of wine in the bad end and in the main route.
but still Ophelia seems to be completely in control of the situation and aware in the main route with Sterling.

So based on that i conclude that the girls are on the same doses of drugs when with Sterling but still acting more like their natural selves

In chapter 9, the slow and rocky penetration was due to Amber's anxiety. Hunter also had to overcome the same obstacle by distracting her with spitting in her mouth. Mental problems can persist while on reality warping drugs. You can take LSD and still experience problems with bruxism.

In chapter 10, Ophelia was in control of the scene. Sterling was hesitant the entire time and trying to feel out what was happening. If Sterling was in control, he could have easily fucked Ophelia's pussy the same way Hunter did.

 

[james6868]

CAN SOMEONE PLEASEEEE UPLOAD THE CH 9-10 SAVE FILE FOR MAC OS, PLEASEEEE IM BEGGING YOU

 

[Only1P]

In chapter 9, the slow and rocky penetration was due to Amber's anxiety. Hunter also had to overcome the same obstacle by distracting her with spitting in her mouth.

In chapter 10, Ophelia was in control of the scene. Sterling was hesitant the entire time and trying to feel out what was happening. If Sterling was in control, he could have easily fucked Ophelia's pussy the same way Hunter did.

Thank you for giving some insight to the confusion.
Hey after all you are building a good story, and I like your work.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

No further drugs, blackmail, or conditioning required, and this, by my mental gymnastics, degrades their characters no matter if it is main game or otherwise.

Another way to look at it could be that these methods all serve to brainwash (i.e. mind-break), and once brainwashed, further tricks are not needed. In fact they would probably need a fair amount of therapy to deprogram them from what they've been through. This is why I'm very curious about Keira and her mother; they were seduced by Hunter and Drew, and after they were found out, they refused to even talk about what went on.

Now not only are the LI's taken advantage of, but they come to enjoy it for the typical reasons, and prefer to be treated that way than otherwise, and in ways that would belittle the MC.

While (most of) the girls clearly enjoy themselves during the NTR scenes, it might be a stretch to say that they prefer it. Again, there's only one indirect comparison between Hunter and Sterling during the Cath/Amber/Hunter bad-end in chapter 9.

Then combine that with the constant What-if bombardment of same, but longer and more elaborate, and longer time frames between regular releases that somehow are not supposed to be impacted by this... and it makes it difficult to market to the vanilla crowd, who feel like they were subsidizing content they didn't want to begin with. So excuse me if I point out that it seems to me that this has become more of an NTR game, with a sizeable and appreciated vanilla path, but one that is suffering in several ways from what seemed to be a change in direction that came for valid reasons (money/patreons). But it isn't the same game to me that we started out with, which is what my points were all making, along with saying it shouldn't still be marketed as such imho.

Some of that is subjective and some is just hyperbole, but yes the game is changing as the story advances and the sex escalates. However, the NTR aspect was always there. It's like a seed that grew slowly into a tree and is now bearing fruit, we all saw it get planted, so it shouldn't be surprising what it grew into.

 

[acewinz]

This is due to limited time and succinct storytelling. I shouldn't have to explain all of the things Hunter is doing in the background every single time. Expect that in a bad ending that Hunter is doing a mixture of drugging/libido enhancement/blackmail/mind games(and let's not forget the fact that Hunter is supposed to be a god of sex). Even with Sean's storyline, I expect the audience to be aware that the women are under the effects of Hunter's drugs in their food and drink when he leaves for a week.

And every part of the game has been expanded. NTR scenes are bigger because all of the scenes are. NTR still only makes up 10% of an update. You can say "NTR used to be a comedic footnote" but Hunter's chapter 2 scene with Eva was the biggest sex scene in the game for a long time. People complained about it then saying "Why does Hunter get all of the good scenes?". Saying it isn't the same game because NTR has been expanded with everything else feels disingenuous.

Thanks for the reply, and I can appreciate the need for succinctness and that not everything can be explained in the side content to that degree. But when the characters themselves appear unchanged in demeanor besides their willingness within the NTR scenario's, you can see why I bring it up. And I don't think it is disingenuous to say that the NTR content has seen more expansion, both in quantity and direction in comparison, especially with the what-if's.

 

[What? Why? Games]

I meant it appears disingenuous to say the game has changed when you're making the same complaint about NTR being the center of attention that has plagued this thread since Chapter 2.

And if you bring the what ifs into it, obviously NTR has seen an expansion. 80% of the money brought in is telling me what they want to see in the side content. Who am I to argue and what do you expect to see when you point that out? The only argument boils down to how I spend my time. Saying I'm milking because updates take longer, when each chapter has seen a massive increase in content, makes me lump you into the group of people who take issue with the type of side content being made.

 

[acewinz]

This is why I'm very curious about Keira and her mother; they were seduced by Hunter and Drew, and after they were found out, they refused to even talk about what went on.


Some of that is subjective and some is just hyperbole, but yes the game is changing as the story advances and the sex escalates. However, the NTR aspect was always there. It's like a seed that grew slowly into a tree and is now bearing fruit, we all saw it get planted, so it shouldn't be surprising what it grew into.

I thought the same thing about the What-if where Lucia's mom showed up, but her current character wasn't given much chance to be explored. I suppose we could see her show up later or that it just was left as is to minimize the size of that what-if.

The evolution of the side content was surprising to me actually, and I generally have a pretty good feel for plot and character evolution. I wracked it up to the financial drive of the people that wanted it on his patreon and also explained to me the additional expansion via the what-if's and their direction.

 

[MangoMeta]

I meant it appears disingenuous to say the game has changed when you're making the same complaint about NTR being the center of attention that has plagued this thread since Chapter 2.

And if you bring the what ifs into it, obviously NTR has seen an expansion. 80% of the money brought in is telling me what they want to see in the side content. Who am I to argue and what do you expect to see when you point that out? The only argument boils down to how I spend my time. Saying I'm milking because updates take longer, when each chapter has seen a massive increase in content, makes me lump you into the group of people who take issue with the type of side content being made.

how are you going to call it disingenuous when you admit that when you take into account the what ifs its obviously seen a huge expansion. the what if are non cannon just like the ntr thats in the game, using the same characters. people not seperating them is perfectly valid when they are both the exact same content. so yes it has seen a expansion. just own it

 

[jmcronshaw]

Why... because when you attract a certain audience, in this case harem fans, and then add something like ntr, the direct antithesis, along the line, you have gone against what your core audience wants. Either you do both courses from the beginning or you don't do it at all. Look at what happened to Foot of the Mountains. Dev added a route into the game, and people were understandably pissed off. You can't cultivate a harem audience, then shoot the old switcheroo and expect it to go well.

Foot of the Mountains flamed out because it sucked, comparing it to this game is an insult. Power Vaccum is better in every conceivable way.
And this isn't some switcheroo, the NTR stuff has been in the game since the beginning as bad ends, not as some route that got added in 3/4 of the way through development to try to save a sinking ship. It's not even a route, it's 1 or 2 scenes per chapter that can be turned off. The formula has not changed one bit.
The dev has no control over his audience, if someone came into this game thinking it was going to be MILFY City or My New Family or something, they have only themselves to blame, because the dev has been crystal clear from the beginning what his vision is

 

[TheSmoothCriminal]

This is why I can't fathom why there is still vanilla fans supporting this game. It's clear they aren't nearly as active in polls so they are getting less and less content with each update.

Also why bother with having to grind out relationships with the LI when the way the NTR scenes go it's obvious they are far more into being cum dumps for any dick thats doesn't belong to the MC, while when vanilla players finally make all the right choices and go through the cliche stepping stones the LI don't even show the same the willingness to make the grind worth it. Since they just love getting drugged and banged by as many dudes as possible just give us the option to corrupt the LI and give them what they "really" want.

 

[What? Why? Games]

how are you going to call it disingenuous when you admit that when you take into account the what ifs its obviously seen a huge expansion. the what if are non cannon just like the ntr thats in the game, using the same characters. people not seperating them is perfectly valid when they are both the exact same content. so yes it has seen a expansion. just own it

Because I said "disingenuous to say the game has changed". Side content has nothing to do with his criticism of the main game which was

Now you can scream that this is all optional, which yes it is, so we have the option to close our eyes, but it is a far cry from the "Wily Coyote" random comedy bad ends that were the initial level of NTR.

 

[Fayn Arawn]

how are you going to call it disingenuous when you admit that when you take into account the what ifs its obviously seen a huge expansion. the what if are non cannon just like the ntr thats in the game, using the same characters. people not seperating them is perfectly valid when they are both the exact same content. so yes it has seen a expansion. just own it

Did the non-NTR content expand also? Do you not understand relativity? Or ingredient ratios in recipes?