Ren'Py Abandoned Power Vacuum [Ch. 12 Official] [What? Why? Games]

[Fayn Arawn]

I don't think it was messed up at all or do I think that it's connected to Brenna's behavior when the problem is very clearly Elieen.

You're right that Eileen was a direct cause for Brenna's extreme behavior, but consider how the ladies of the house, including Brenna, have been distressed about losing control of their minds and bodies. It's plausible that Brenna was already in a bad mental state (from Hunter's machinations) and that Eileen was a catalyst.

...It's not like the events with Eileen occurred in a (power) vacuum!

I do not think sterling was ever in the wrong for this and I think you are reading way to much into it by trying to connect these events. Sterling established a reason why he doesn't come forward. And even if you don't believe Sterling's reasoning the important thing is that he believes in that reasoning. Sterling believes that telling Brenna the truth will do more harm than good so he decides to wait until later.

It's important to note that someone believing they are right does not absolve them of moral responsibility, but I get what you're saying. I think we (the audience) are meant to take Sterling's rationale at face value, and personally I am on Sterling's side, but at the same time, his actions are not above reproach.

Lucia already knows Hunter is drugging everyone. Lucia is already established to be smarter than Sterling, Sterling is also getting drugged. This is not Sterling taking advantage of Lucia.

We know that on top of whatever drugs and aphrodisiacs the girls have been subjected to, Sterling has been strongly affected by a recently added drug that targets males. We see his increasing sexual boldness, even fucking married women whom he barely knows, so I suppose that in the heat of passion, Sterling has little control over his actions. I do think he has more free will at other times though.

It's one thing to say that Sterling arriving at the conclusion that he has to lie is not very reasonable. It another thing to argue that he was morally wrong for doing so when he very clearly things telling the truth will cause her harm.

Whether he's right or wrong is subjective, getting into classic ethical debates about "lesser evils" or "ends justifying means". And despite what Sterling thinks, it's hard to know how things would've played out if he made different decisions. Heck, there might be a good idea for a "What If?" in there somewhere.

 

[NachoAndCheez]

Yeah, maybe it will all become clearer in 13, the author seems pretty sharp and is really focusing on the drugs. I just can't make sense why you would point out that seducing drugged women is awful and then make the whole story revolve around seducing known-to-be-drugged women.

I think it would have been great if Hunter was just like "Look one of us has to be the Dio del Sesso. So if you don't learn how to seduce them, I will." Sterling would be completely justified. It's only the drugs that actually makes it villainous. If no drugs are involved and they really just know how to drop panties... to me that's even better. Who can't win with drugs? It takes the power out of the game, imo. Either way, can't wait for the wrap up.

Good lord, you've been a treat, the arguments in this page about the story usually boiled down to two options:
The 'not even engaging with the story'= Why doesn't he just kill hunter? (cuz then there is no story)

And the 'why is this taking so long?'= Why is Sterling such a passive wimp? Why isn't he taking all the oportunities he's gotten to get with the girls/make oportunities himself?. Believe it or not the actual author answered this one... because that would be too rapey, the dev appears to have made a concious effort to try and make his MC a moral actor in this, or at least in comparison to other main characters in this kind of game, e.g. someone that would rape someone in their sleep or sneaking in drugs, so congrats on being the first to actually have moral questions over Sterling (there've been others but it was more, them trying to make the MC look bad cuz they were chomping at the bit for a Drew redemption arc).

Now, I kinda agree that Sterling has been getting worse as of late, it's been a while since I played chapter 12 properly (like a year and a half ) but I remember not liking how Sterling acted on this one in particular, he's been degrading yes, he's been getting WAY more agressive and quite the ego too (yeah dude, the reazon the paranoid squitzo that told you to your face that making out with you is akin to eating feces because you've rimmed women actually enjoyed making out with you... is because she actually has feelings for you that she hasn't recognice it yet, that has to be it).

But his behavior only got uncomfortable for me AFTER the scene of the drug that only affects males, and again, I can excuse it because of that but it is still uncomfortable.

Also, you've said that the MC suffers no repercutions but all the girls in the house have clocked him at least once, Brenna got in a mean hook to his chin, Ophelia got a clean slap across the face, I don't remember any Cath retaliation but I mean she's the one that's been the closest to killing him (crushed by thighs...cool way to go tbh), even Lucia pushed him out of the bath to the floor... and in each of those ocations he said 'yeah, I deserve that', except on Ophelia's case and I was also pissed because of that one.

Also, Sorry dude but Brenna is a violent paranoid, yeah she does a lot of sweet things but those are inbetween thretening people and actually throwing hands, she literally trust no one and she makes it everyone's business.

 

[storm1051787]

It's important to note that someone believing they are right does not absolve them of moral responsibility, but I get what you're saying. I think we (the audience) are meant to take Sterling's rationale at face value, and personally I am on Sterling's side, but at the same time, his actions are not above reproach.

I mean that's the thing though even if we're saying that we can still judge Sterling for his actions despite Sterling believing he has a good reason for it. I still don't believe there was ever anything wrong with lying to Brenna in that scene in the first place. We're given a reason for why telling the truth is not a good idea, and Brenna's issues are a combination of multiple things and even if the scene with the tooth added to that there is no reason to believe at the moment that lying would have ever caused any real harm.

Just like I personally don't see any moral failing in Sterling acting a certain why with Lucia when both are under the influence of Hunter's drugs, and both of them are aware they're being drugged. As I said earlier it really feels like a double standard and Lucia's behavior under the drug's is far worse than Sterling and literally involves her assaulting and raping people.

even fucking married women whom he barely knows,

He didn't know she was married. None of them did. He literally just meets her and she says she's married only halfway through sex. He also had no way of knowing she was drugged given that she had literally never stepped foot in the house before and Sterling didn't know about the vents. In this case especially I think Sterling is completely blameless because all he knows is that some nurse decided she wants to fuck him. The only other married woman Sterling sleeps with is Kumiko and that's already after she decided she was going to get a divorce.



I also don't really agree that Sterling has been rougher lately other than scenes where Lucia tells him to be. For everything else he seems like the same character as before if maybe just a bit more impulsive. But he's not berating anyone and acting all macho.

 

[Gwimmly]

That doesn't clear him from guilt and Brenna already has trust issues.

I'm literally sitting with the game open and replaying every scene so I don't say something incorrect. That's why it's taken me over an hour to reply even though I saw this comment when it was first only a few mins old. The problem is not me misremebering events. Like I said I'm lierally replaying the game while typing. Its that I don't believe in A your reasoning for a lot of things. Or B tht a lot of the events are connected. The Clerk thing is very clearly mre about Elieen and doesn't have anything to do with the two incident. Same with her depression. This is clearly mostly about Elieen and not about Brenna thinking she's crazy. Which is what's also actually feeding into her paranoia. She has pre existing trust issues that Elieen is bringng back up while also being wierded out by the thing with Ophelia.


Cathrine literally iniated both of those with her lack of boundaries. Not sterling. Cathrine repeatedly pushes her boundaries and even in the first chapter decided she was going to kiss sterling, then later decides she was just going to give sterling a blow job






Because like I said the event with the tooth is not brought up again and Brenna's main issue is established to be her trust issues which is what feed into her paranoia



Brenna saying how would they check is not proof that she believes Stering. It's asking Sterling to provide proof of his accusation

I've literally been replaying the game as I've talked to you. Connecting everything wrong with Brenna to the tooth incident is nonsense.



Again he doesn't know she's paranoid in the first place. He just knows she's about to accuse him again. Most of the events you're talking about Sterling wasn't around for.



The fact that they literally don't believe him when he accuses Hunter. And the fact that Hunter successfully flips the accusations



The game establishes it in literally the fisrt chapter that nobody will believe Sterling. That Sterling decides he needs to gather proof and expose hunter at once and that Hunter is spying on the and will make it look like Sterling did it which is literally exactly what happen. The bigger queston I have is why you are convinced at all that Sterling ene could tell the truth.



He tried to use it AND Hunter's fake eyeball, and Hunter's drugs, and the Robot suit. He doesnt present one evidence and say that's good enough he gathers multiple evidence so he actually has a case incase it falls through. Even with the proof Hunter had everyone convinced until Lucia showed up with the gas canisters.




I don't think it was messed up at all or do I think that it's connected to Brenna's behavior when the problem is very clearly Elieen. I do not think sterling was ever in the wrong for this and I think you are reading way to much into it by trying to connect these events. Sterling established a reason why he doesn't come forward. And even if you don't believe Sterling's reasoning the important thing is that he believes in that reasoning. Sterling believes that telling Brenna the truth will do more harm than good so he decides to wait until later. I don't know why you are connecting the events to her parania though




Except it's not good evvidence. She literally points out right away that Hunter has all his teeth. They make fake teeth to be just like real teeth and there isn't a good way to prove Hunter got a fake tooth.


It's literally what happens in the story. I replayed the scene the past 4 times.



I was unsure what part ofthe game you were talking about. Regardless my argument with Lucia is the exact same. Lucia already knows Hunter is drugging everyone. Lucia is already established to be smarter than Sterling, Sterling is also getting drugged. This is not Sterling taking advantage of Lucia. This is literally just Lucia not caring and Sterling being to dumb to kow what's going on. Lucia literally has the capability to stop sterling at any time and chooses not to while also assaulting people







It's not based off a misunderstanding at all. You're aking leaps in logic that I fundamentally disagree with. The Brenna tooth thing being the biggest thing I disagree with to the point where I literally don't understand how you, Fayn Arawn or anyone else could arrived at the conclusion instead of the more obvious explanations the game literally gives us. You're reading way to into things and connecting eents that aren' actually connected or have anything to do with each other.


It's one thing to say that Sterling arriving at the conclusion that he has to lie is not very reasonable. It another thing to argue that he was morally wrong for doing so when he very clearly things telling the truth will cause her harm. I said it earlier and I aid it again. I think your entire argument is ridiclous and would be better if you redirect it at the plot for not being convincing enough.


No I don't agree that Sterling did anything wrong at all in regards to Brenna or Lucia and while he took advantage of Catherine's naivity in some parts she's still the one who initiates everything. He just chooses not to shut her down.

The only thing really holding the girls back is the incestual aspect of it all right? The girls know Sterling loves and cares for them and they obviously have a physical attraction to him as well. He pretty much HAS to be super pushy and test the waters if he ever wants to move the relationships with them forward. If Brenna had the same feelings towards some random dude who wasn't her blood relative would she really have put up such a resistance to Sterling's advances? That fact alongside both Sterling being a really young virgin who has had no real experience with romance and him being drugged out of his mind honestly is a justification for a lot of his actions in my mind. Think about it this way he has never been a relationship before let alone one involving his own family members, he is learning the importance of boundaries as he goes. He literally has untrained/inexperienced monkey brain. All he sees in his mind is that "oh damn this girl is totally digging me! i can tell she is both emotionally and physically attracted to me so i might as well make my totally not over the line move right?" wrong moron

Edit: WWG we are all obviously at our limit please save US!! !

 

[Ennoch]

You all take this porn-y pornVN's characters and their emotional state and reasoning way too seriously

 

[AlwaysJustM]

No I don't agree that Sterling did anything wrong at all in regards to Brenna or Lucia and while he took advantage of Catherine's naivity in some parts she's still the one who initiates everything. He just chooses not to shut her down.

Fair enough.

Agree to disagree. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[AlwaysJustM]

Good lord, you've been a treat, the arguments in this page about the story usually boiled down to two options:
The 'not even engaging with the story'= Why doesn't he just kill hunter? (cuz then there is no story)

And the 'why is this taking so long?'= Why is Sterling such a passive wimp? Why isn't he taking all the oportunities he's gotten to get with the girls/make oportunities himself?. Believe it or not the actual author answered this one...because that would be too rapey, the dev appears to have made a concious effort to try and make his MC a moral actor in this, or at least in comparison to other main characters in this kind of game, e.g. someone that would rape someone in their sleep or sneaking in drugs, so congrats on being the first to actually have moral questions over Sterling (there've been others but it was more, them trying to make the MC look bad cuz they were chomping at the bit for a Drew redemption arc).

EDIT
If you saw my original response, I had a massive reading comprehension failure, sorry. If you did not see it then ignore this and continue assuming I am perfect. /EDIT

This is the main thought. It seemed that the MC was supposed to be a moral actor. And, to me, that is almost impossible if you're attempting to seduce them when you know they're being subjected to drugs. It just seems to completely nullify consent if people feel their brain is being "hijacked."

The rest of the discussion is just getting into the weeds of the specific instances, but that is at the core of the moral disagreement. It's the drugs and the deception about drugs. Everything else is pretty understandable human and immaturity flaws really. I mean who hasn't gotten a little handsy ahead of the whistle, right?

Now, I kinda agree that Sterling has been getting worse as of late, it's been a while since I played chapter 12 properly (like a year and a half ) but I remember not liking how Sterling acted on this one in particular, he's been degrading yes, he's been getting WAY more agressive and quite the ego too (yeah dude, the reazon the paranoid squitzo that told you to your face that making out with you is akin to eating feces because you've rimmed women actually enjoyed making out with you... is because she actually has feelings for you that she hasn't recognice it yet, that has to be it).

But his behavior only got uncomfortable for me AFTER the scene of the drug that only affects males, and again, I can excuse it because of that but it is still uncomfortable.

Yeah, I did not blame him for this because it was pretty obvious it was the result of his being drugged. Again, the drugs really hijack the story so much it kinda pushes the characters to the background as you can hardly separate real feelings and behavior from drug-addled behavior.

That's why it's such a curious plot device for a relationship narrative to me.

Also, you've said that the MC suffers no repercutions but all the girls in the house have clocked him at least once, Brenna got in a mean hook to his chin, Ophelia got a clean slap across the face, I don't remember any Cath retaliation but I mean she's the one that's been the closest to killing him (crushed by thighs...cool way to go tbh), even Lucia pushed him out of the bath to the floor... and in each of those ocations he said 'yeah, I deserve that', except on Ophelia's case and I was also pissed because of that one.

I mean more in regards to a moral judgment from the author. Like your first point he's supposed to be a 'moral MC' in comparison at least, but, to me, I'm really stuck behind it being immoral to seduce people you know are being drugged... even if you didn't drug them.

Also, Sorry dude but Brenna is a violent paranoid, yeah she does a lot of sweet things but those are inbetween thretening people and actually throwing hands, she literally trust no one and she makes it everyone's business.

Agreed. Sterling is the only non-violent member of the family apparently. Brenna is a pitbull in protecting the family BUT seeing how each member actually force themselves on her more than twice and Brenna not only never retaliates but barely even gets mad at them makes Brenna definitely the "cool older sister" she tries to be. Ophelia picking her as the sole target for spanking when she can barely scold Catherine the rapist and Sterling the serial masturbator also shows she has more burden of responsibility.

It's not so much that she doesn't trust the family, but she does expect them to be idiots and get themselves into trouble, which consistently shows to be a good expectation. It probably increases her paranoia to outside threats, especially considering how often her paranoia about those threats prove accurate (Kevin, Eileen, Hunter, Sterling lying and failing to control himself).

"It's not paranoia if it's always right..."

So, not too surprising she doesn't trust anyone, including a woman that stalks her, plots to record her engaging in incest, and expose it to her just to see the look on her face for the ultimate kick. For me, she gets a pass for thinking that's a threat...

As extreme as the story can be, in that one case, if someone did something like that to me, I'd probably actually respond the same way.

 

[Snugglepuff]

I hardly see any vanilla faces here, the tiny few that are here, mostly cry about how WWG focus more on ntr

Now just hold your horses a minute...

I'm not going to speak for others here, but I do not believe for one minute that the non-ntr/vanilla "faces" comprise of primarily crying about a misbelief of a greater focus on ntr. I'd say it's more accurate to label the ones you mean as the vocal minority.

 

[Ghostboy031]

Come for the porn, stay for the essays.

 

[assrekt]

Damn updates from this site are almost non-existent now. I'm following dozens of games and used to get 1 game update from different devs at least once a month but nowadays its either once a year or the game gets abandoned. I think we've already reached the peak, for both players and the devs. Or I'm just getting too old for this

 

[pinkie96]

I could be misremembering this but he never planned for there to be ntr bad ends it was just going to be an ntr route and a vanilla route. He caught a bunch of flak for the ntr in the very beginning so he started to gravitate towards more vanilla focus and then he started to integrate the bad ends later on. Someone please correct me if i am wrong on this but that's what i remember picking up from reading the early thread discussions with him and players.

Bad ends have been in the game since chapter 1. There was never going to be an NTR route. A lot of people on here were throwing tantrum about NTR being included at all. WWG did a poll on patreon and most people voted to keep the bad ends.

 

[000000]

Bad ends have been in the game since chapter 1. There was never going to be an NTR route. A lot of people on here were throwing tantrum about NTR being included at all. WWG did a poll on patreon and most people voted to keep the bad ends.
View attachment 4968561

it should be name as "BAD ENDING" choices instead of naming it as NTR its already a misconception to the NTR genre

 

[FoolishFool0]

NTR and Harem as twin genres are both weirdly interconnected but also extremely antithetical.

A game with both tags therefore falls into three categories ultimately:

A) Games like this one, where the game is a full harem but it has NTR bad endings, in which case the bad endings enhance the harem aspects of the game since you have to actually work to achieve it.

B) Netori Games, which are about a MC stealing someone else's woman.

C) NTR games who have a single Harem ending, usually featuring someone else mind you, or featuring an Harem Protagonist getting cucked (Especially if it's a fanfiction game).

Personally, I think as long as the game is blatantly clear about what it is about, people complaining about it is kinda pointless unless you have actual legit criticism about it rather than based on subjective porn taste.

 

[000000]

NTR and Harem as twin genres are both weirdly interconnected but also extremely antithetical.

A game with both tags therefore falls into three categories ultimately:

A) Games like this one, where the game is a full harem but it has NTR bad endings, in which case the bad endings enhance the harem aspects of the game since you have to actually work to achieve it.

B) Netori Games, which are about a MC stealing someone else's woman.

C) NTR games who have a single Harem ending, usually featuring someone else mind you, or featuring an Harem Protagonist getting cucked (Especially if it's a fanfiction game).

Personally, I think as long as the game is blatantly clear about what it is about, people complaining about it is kinda pointless unless you have actual legit criticism about it rather than based on subjective porn taste.

To me its about the story linear in which is about the tag NTR is not in the story it self its true there is HUNTER but his just a clown figure to me whenever I read his story line but its really just a matter of bad endings whenever you choose HUNTER's path but it only leads to BAD END instead of continuation in the story progress in which I can say it's an NTR game but yeah ntr tag in this website are classified as 2 those have in the story progression or its in the BAD ENDING choices

 

[Gwimmly]

You all take this porn-y pornVN's characters and their emotional state and reasoning way too seriously

Yeah but it's different in this case because PV is a game inspired by true events Brenna is out there somewhere i just know it

 

[johnpouljones]

Yeah but it's different in this case because PV is a game inspired by true events Brenna is out there somewhere i just know it

Everything is possible. There are people who say that small green people live somewhere. And two British ladies took a picture of the elves.

 

[pinkie96]

I predicted a late November release last year. Now we're closer to this year's November than last's

 

[Snugglepuff]

I predicted a late November release last year. Now we're closer to this year's November than last's

I'm starting to see a pattern here...

Stop making predictions, you're jinxing it!

 

[panzermaster]

I'm starting to see a pattern here...

Stop making predictions, you're jinxing it!

Yeah it's all the fault of pinkie96, he shouldn't have made predictions...

 

[NachoAndCheez]

EDIT
If you saw my original response, I had a massive reading comprehension failure, sorry. If you did not see it then ignore this and continue assuming I am perfect. /EDIT

This is the main thought. It seemed that the MC was supposed to be a moral actor. And, to me, that is almost impossible if you're attempting to seduce them when you know they're being subjected to drugs. It just seems to completely nullify consent if people feel their brain is being "hijacked."

The rest of the discussion is just getting into the weeds of the specific instances, but that is at the core of the moral disagreement. It's the drugs and the deception about drugs. Everything else is pretty understandable human and immaturity flaws really. I mean who hasn't gotten a little handsy ahead of the whistle, right?




Yeah, I did not blame him for this because it was pretty obvious it was the result of his being drugged. Again, the drugs really hijack the story so much it kinda pushes the characters to the background as you can hardly separate real feelings and behavior from drug-addled behavior.

That's why it's such a curious plot device for a relationship narrative to me.




I mean more in regards to a moral judgment from the author. Like your first point he's supposed to be a 'moral MC' in comparison at least, but, to me, I'm really stuck behind it being immoral to seduce people you know are being drugged... even if you didn't drug them.




Agreed. Sterling is the only non-violent member of the family apparently. Brenna is a pitbull in protecting the family BUT seeing how each member actually force themselves on her more than twice and Brenna not only never retaliates but barely even gets mad at them makes Brenna definitely the "cool older sister" she tries to be. Ophelia picking her as the sole target for spanking when she can barely scold Catherine the rapist and Sterling the serial masturbator also shows she has more burden of responsibility.

It's not so much that she doesn't trust the family, but she does expect them to be idiots and get themselves into trouble, which consistently shows to be a good expectation. It probably increases her paranoia to outside threats, especially considering how often her paranoia about those threats prove accurate (Kevin, Eileen, Hunter, Sterling lying and failing to control himself).

"It's not paranoia if it's always right..."

So, not too surprising she doesn't trust anyone, including a woman that stalks her, plots to record her engaging in incest, and expose it to her just to see the look on her face for the ultimate kick. For me, she gets a pass for thinking that's a threat...

As extreme as the story can be, in that one case, if someone did something like that to me, I'd probably actually respond the same way.

Well, on that moral conondrum we'll never reach an agreement but do answer me these 2 questions:
When two black out drunks fuck each other, Who raped who?
If when you are drunk, you realize you're drunk, can you suddenly start walking straight and stop slurring your words?

Back on the 'we need to make Drew look like a victim' arc everyone put a lot of weight into Sterling knowing about the drugs and nobody answered that second question, my point being, ok Sterling knows of the drugs, does that mean he is not affected by them? Who knows by this point him not telling anyone could have been because of the drugs too and not a moral failing.

AND thanks to you bad mouthing Sterling suddenly everyone is on his side again (thanks guys I'm not the only contrarian now), and now thanks to more arguments shown, I'm not even sure if he actually understands the extent of the problem, dumbass probably believes he ISN'T drugged because he is aware of Hunter and tries to remove the ones he's aware of, wich would make him think all the stupid horny choices he's made have actually been HIS idea, and in turn make it so that his choices are even worse. That scene on the pent house with Brenna drawing on his chest were probably the 2 only hours of lucidity that fucker has enjoyed in months.

And, why use drugs? Again, the dev actually answered that one already, because this was going to be about a NORMAL family (albeit a bit quirky) that ended up fucking each other and he found no believable way for a normal family to suddenly start fucking each other without a big nice push, so hey, even if it's iffy it was that little 'for the story sake' actual suspencion of disbelief. He could use quarantine if he ever wants to try this formula again though... I've heard that the incest rates went through the roof because of the 2020 lockdowns.

For one final point though, you said something very very wrong, you said that Brenna suspects Hunter... she doesn't, nobody does, THAT'S THE PROBLEM, that applies tenfold when you say that the threat is sexual in nature then not even actual paranoia would believe you. There was one person Sterling tried to warn Tiff, and she laughed to his face when Sterling called Hunter a 'threat', then she fell to the floor laughing when Sterling explained that she would end up fucking him if he got the chance, and can you blame her? you're basically telling them that they'll end up finding what could be descrived as a walking malignant tumor alluring and irresistible, nobody believes you, everyone thinks you're deranged, THEN comes the drugs.

And you have already finished chapter 12 by now, you've seen that actually warning them, actually using evidence, appealing to their relationship ment squat... probably because they STILL wouldn't believe they would actually end up having sex with Hunter, that was Sterling's fear, that he would not be believed and that happened so 'it's not paranoia if it's right' huh.